United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >..so while someone may have been burned by 3 [non-permissible content removed] lawyers, we aren't all like that...but when a bad apple makes bad cars, too many cars from that maker have problems...

    So as I summarize the calculus of your posts, the lady should have called a foreign attorney for her 4th call?

    Perhaps we need attorney groups based in foreign countries who talk to clients and use a representative here to handle their court appearances, sort of like toyota sets up a North American office but the homeland office had to handle all the real decisions about sludge, runaway acceleration, etc.?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    US lawyers have been outsourcing drafting and research to lawyers in India for years now. They send the project off and get results back the next morning, thanks to the time zone difference.

    This is interesting:

    GM's Opel division is hurting and plans to close plants. The UAW owns 10% of the stock and sits on the board. "Representing the capitalist side of the equation, King will have to vote for job losses and plant closures. "

    UAW’s Bob King Will Fire 7,000, Close Two GM Plants (thetruthaboutcars.com)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >US lawyers have been outsourcing drafting and research

    Interesting. I'll be careful if I should need attorney help to use one who does his work in the US!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2012
    Like one who hires first year US law students to do it eh?

    More interesting UAW stuff - they should be making an announcement about VW recruiting efforts down in Chattanooga next month, maybe just in a few days. (KDEF)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited March 2012
    Too bad you didn't live in Delaware. They have no-fault divorce laws and my brother got out of his marriage with little hassle. If he still lived in Pennsylvania, his ex and her lawyer would've done to him what the mountain men did to Ned Beatty in "Deliverance."
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >he panel/door alignment is so bad Fintail

    Isn't that a fault also with the dealer who prepped the car for delivery?

    A lot of the problems people complained about with their US brand vehicles through the years were things the dealers could have easily taken care of, even if it were out of warranty. The import brands in some cases earned their reputation by handling problems in and out of warranty, some cases without the customer's even knowing about it.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I can tell you, a modern day bakery is nothing like one from 1980. I've toured a few over the years.

    My dad worked for Nabisco in Portland during the early 1950s for minimum wage of a $1 an hour. Not sure how Rocky's dad was getting such big wages back then. Maybe he was the CEO. :blush: I joined the Carpenters Union in 1979 and worked as a carpenter until early 1980 in St Cloud MN. The scale was $11 per hour for a journeyman carpenter. Minimum wage was $3.10 per hour. So Rocky your dad was making about $10 per hour more than the job. I doubt many people in bakeries today make much more than $13 per hour. In the camps where I worked when the oil prices went in the toilet in the late 1980s. The housekeepers and cooks all were Union. They took a huge wage cut to keep the Union workers on the job. They laid off the Bakers and started bringing the pastries and cookies up from Seattle. That was a good thing as I quit eating pastry when it was no longer fresh and tasty.

    My question concerning the trashing of the D3 by Japan. Why when they had to compete did they cut quality rather than labor costs? A little labor cut in the 1980s would have been preferable to bankruptcy down the road and having wages cut in half as a result.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I'cant imagine the dealers are expected to virtually align virtually every body panel on the car. Maybe the UAW still lives by "don't worry about it, the dealer will fix it.

    Though being a fleet vehicle, the dealer basically throws the keys at you. They certianly put little effort in the transaction.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    He worked in a Teamster union shop do I need to say more? ;)

    -Rocky
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Nothing like having a conclusion in search of supporting facts...

    Enjoy your own little "reality".
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    GARY WATKINS, IBEW, ASST. BUSINESS MANAGER "Right to work really means that you have the right to join a union..or not. It doesn't have anything to do with right to work".

    WOW, an Honest Union Business Agent. I am impressed. You would not hear that from a UAW leader is my guess. RTW is a Federal law, too bad so many states are controlled by Unions and have successfully kept businesses out of their states with archaic closed shop rules. If a Union is doing its job it is a good thing, and people will want to be a part of it.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited March 2012
    There are so many product reviews over the years that clearly show the inferiority of the domestic builds when it comes to quality construction that it's practically impossible for a reasonable person to deny the truth.

    But, there will always be those who are apologists for the crap The big -3 churned out in the latter half of the last century.

    Giving credit where credit is due, there is also clear evidence that someone finally got the message and now understands that squeaking dashboards and mis-aligned doors will no longer be tolerated by the buying public.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "I however have grown a lot wiser and before they get any money from me again I will have language in there that if they do not complete the job I can get a full refund"

    I wish you luck with that...most fee contracts have a clause "fees earned at the time of payment" because they are supposedly setting aside future time for you when they handle your case...even my bankruptcy contract states "no refunds" (except court filing fees if you decide not to go thru with it)...now, if someone hires me Monday and calls me on Tuesday and wants to cancel, even tho my contract SAYS fees are earned, I will refund their money, simply because it is the right thing to do...my contract says I can keep it, but, to me, common sense says that the right thing to do is give the money back, so I will...now, if they hire me on Tuesday, and 2 weeks later, after I have inputed all the information into the petition and put my hours into it, THEN they want to cancel, there are no refunds...I did my work and they are too late...I naturally will give them a paper copy of the work I have done, of course...

    Maybe I am just a small firm, but I cannot imagine sending work to India for processing...all my work is done by me, personally, right here in Atlanta...no outsourcing for me, just all "made in the USA"...

    Texas would be nice for the lack of state income tax, but I have no intent of moving there...

    I also have property taxes to deal with, just like you folks...my taxes just went down from $1,200.00 to $900.00 yearly...still too high if you ask me...

    Oh, I do not have facebook, so I would love to trade political opinions with you folks, but I am just not into these social networking sites...no more Obama gaffes, I guess...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    Do you have sidewalks and paved streets out there? :shades:

    Don't feel bad about not falling for facebook. I haven't either. I noticed my 75 year old aunt has a page, and my sister has a page for her dog. That's enough to keep me away.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    The truth is a 1994/95 Civic would of held up just fine, cost only a thousand or 2 more, and would have resold at 65K miles for 6K more than the Peon.

    Not necessarily. I actually recommended a '94 Civic EX to some friends of mine, a married couple, and it turned out to be a pretty big turd. I think it was around $16,000 out the door, and they unloaded a beat-up '78 Malibu Classic with well over 200,000 miles in the process, that they got 75 bucks for.

    Ironically, one of my friends, who was a Mopar nut, got mad at me for recommending the Civic to them. He wanted them to get a Shadow or Sundance. But, as much as I like Mopar and domestics, I knew that small cars weren't their strong point.

    Well, my friends bought the Civic, on my recommendation. In its defense, it did make it to around 80-90,000 miles. But, it took two head gaskets and a new a/c compressor to get there! When the second head gasket blew, that was the final straw and they traded it on a Saturn S series in 1998.

    I don't know how well the Saturn held up, as I lost contact with them. But the last time I drove past their house, there was an '03-07 Toyota Corolla in front of their house, so I guess GM didn't win them back completely.

    I really liked the Neon when it first came out. IIRC, it came out about a month or two after my friends got their Civic. For the time, the Neon had good pep for a small car, and was about the only small car I could fit comfortably in at the time.

    It's a shame that the quality on the earlier models was so bad. It was a popular car for awhile, but alas, a lot of people got screwed by the quality problems. In fact, I came close to being one of them. In late '96, my '68 Dart stalled out on me at a traffic light in the rain, while delivering pizzas, and I was so mad at the thing I asked my grandmother that night if she'd co-sign with me on a loan for a Neon. Thankfully she said no. And the Dart turned out to simply need a ballast resistor, which cost something like $2.98.

    BTW, my friends got $4,000 for their Civic when they sold it in 1998, blown head gasket and all. IIRC, they didn't trade it at the Saturn dealer, but rather sold it at a Honda dealer, and then went and bought the Saturn.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I don't know how well the Saturn held up, as I lost contact with them. But the last time I drove past their house, there was an '03-07 Toyota Corolla in front of their house, so I guess GM didn't win them back completely.

    From my experience the S-series Saturns were not very good. My wife, my SIL, my MIL, and a good friend of mine owned them in the 90's. My wife's was okay, other than an oil burning issue that developed around 60k, my MIL's '95 made it to about 120k, but it was a POC (rattles and trans leaks). My SIL, and friend each had their SC-1's bought back because of multiple issues. Then my SIL totaled her replacement after a month. My friend kept his a for about 3 years and traded it for a minivan for his wife. He drives Hondas now.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "Do you have sidewalks and paved streets out there?"

    Be more specific...do you mean in the same neighborhood, or can one neighborhood have paved streets while the other only has sidewalks???... :P ;):blush:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    I think there you get one or the other, unless your street was built prior to 1950 or so. My friend who lives a stone's throw from you complains he can't go walking in his neighborhood as there are no sidewalks and the local drivers are a little iffy. I guess a lack those high cost unionized public services make for low taxes :shades:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I think there you get one or the other, unless your street was built prior to 1950 or so. My friend who lives a stone's throw from you complains he can't go walking in his neighborhood as there are no sidewalks and the local drivers are a little iffy.

    I know that in a lot (most?) of the country, homes don't have fences around the yards, even in small-lot subdivisions. Not like here in CA. Doesn't the lack of privacy bother people?

    I guess what we need are some union crew from the UAW to build the fences. $100K/lot takes it away...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We have had sidewalks installed on streets that are total trash due to ADA rulings. There are no sidewalks out where I live and I am fine with it.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2012
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Gary you didn't tell me you got a part time job? :blush:

    -Rocky
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    I know that in a lot (most?) of the country, homes don't have fences around the yards, even in small-lot subdivisions. Not like here in CA. Doesn't the lack of privacy bother people?

    In the front yard or the back? Most of the HOAs, or even local communities and towns around where I live have ordinances against fences or hedgerows over a certain height in the front yard, or ban them altogether. And, in my county, if you want to erect a fence taller than four feet, anywhere on your land, you need a permit.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    edited March 2012
    My subdivision, built in 1995-2000, had paved streets, underground utilities, but no sidewalks...I agree with gagrice...we don't need no stinkin' sidewalks...we walk on the street and keep our eyes open for cars...quite safe, really...quiet neighborhood, about 80 homes I think...diverse, about 50/50 which is fine with me...only one foreclosure in the area, home values were about $140-160K at the high in 2007, now down around $70-90K...same homes, just lower values...fortunately, that meant that our taxes were lowered, too, and my taxes dropped from $1200 to $900 per year...fine with me...

    Unlike most who made the serious error, I never thought that the sale of my paid-off home would make me rich in retirement...for that to work you really must live in a high cost area, like NY, CA, CT, etc, so when you sell your home for 1/2 million or more, tax free, you then move to a lower cost area so your money lasts...I just live in the low cost area now...:):):)

    Also, the only public service we receive is law enforcement by the Sheriff, since we are outside city limts and in the county...we also pay for the school system, but our utilities are independent of the city utility, we pay for cable so they maintain it...what else is there???

    I forgot...I think school taxes are too high, because too much goes to administration...anybody over the level of principal is probably unncesaary, except for a few members of the Board of Ed...when more taxes are "for the children" that is crap...it is for more bureaucrats in the Board of Ed and does nothing to enhance education...that could drop my taxes to, maybe, $600 to 700...can you imagine???...does anybody else out there get hammered with exorbitant taxes of $900 like me???... :blush: :P ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    does anybody else out there get hammered with exorbitant taxes of $900 like me???

    You a funny guy. Mine are over $6000 per year. We have all those overpaid Union Public servants to waste our tax dollars on. We have over 500 Major agencies and thousands of less important agencies in CA sucking the tax payers dry. Wealthy people are bailing out, claiming residence elsewhere just keep a home in Malibu or Laguna for entertaining.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    edited March 2012
    I see no sidewalks in that area, and a lot of awfully big people. Maybe not a coincidence :shades:

    My mother lives in a town about the size of yours, has a house worth about as much as yours, pays about the same taxes - in the city limits. It has sidewalks too, but I suspect they are from when the neighborhood was initially developed 85 years ago. No doubt school and city administration is a big part of that expense...very posh pensions for the work. Makes UAW workers look like choirboys...
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    Well, my friends bought the Civic, on my recommendation. In its defense, it did make it to around 80-90,000 miles. But, it took two head gaskets and a new a/c compressor to get there! When the second head gasket blew, that was the final straw and they traded it on a Saturn S series in 1998.

    That still sounds like amazing reliability compared to my Neon experience...

    In 65K miles, head gasket replacement, A/C compressor (at 36.1K miles by the way), auto transmission rebuild, parking brake repair, starter cables/wires replaced, O2 sensors replaced, gas tank O ring/gaskets replaced, cracked windshield replaced (not due to any impacts), Early failure of Serpentine belt, and other belts burned by failing AC requiring early replacement, dashboard edge trim, re-install weatherstripping around window frames (though it was frameless), early battery failures (multiple times; sometimes due to early corrosion), fuel pump, and I'm sure I've forgotten a lot; it's been a long time.

    BTW, my friends got $4,000 for their Civic when they sold it in 1998, blown head gasket and all. IIRC, they didn't trade it at the Saturn dealer, but rather sold it at a Honda dealer, and then went and bought the Saturn.

    Sounds like they got robbed! They should have easily been able to get 6K for that car. They must of been in a hurry to get rid of it, and traded it rather than private sale? Why not fix it first and get the full 6K value (at least)? The head gasket couldn't have been more than a $1K fix?

    Even with the Neon, I think we got the Serpentine/Alternator belt fixed before giving up and my parents traded it in (in a hurry to trade it in while it still ran on its own power). I remember I went to school in their '95 Camry as my Neon was getting fixed the day I went back down to college. The next day they said the Neon was no more in the family! LOL.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Panicking over petrol
    The silliest country in the world


    On March 28th David Cameron condemned a threatened strike by fuel tanker drivers, which could occur in about 10 days’ time. As for ordinary people, he said, they should not respond to the possibility of looming shortages by queuing to buy petrol. But motorists might take the precaution of topping up their fuel tanks over the next few days. Francis Maude, the Cabinet Office minister, added that it could be sensible to keep a few extra litres of fuel in a jerry can.

    Telling people not to panic and rush to the nearest petrol station has been quickly followed by a panicked rush to petrol stations. Britain’s newspaper websites are full of stories of lengthening queues, filling stations running out of fuel and angry customers.

    The Guardian is directing readers to post their accounts of panic buying, and has linked to a map which indicates the silliest areas of the country. The commuter belt to the north and west of London is pretty silly, as are parts of the north-west. The south coast is silly. Scotland is not particularly silly.


    http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2012/03/panicking-over-petrol?fsrc=nlw|ne- we|3-30-2012|new_on_the_economist
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    When Katrina hit NO and disrupted gas production, the southeast was affected significantly, because much of its fuel in piped in via the pipelines that were temporarily shut down.

    Even then, though it was more difficult, you could find a station that at least had regular unleaded available...

    The very same thing that the article described in England happened here. You saw folks rush out, not only filling their tanks but extra 5 gallon gas cans, etc.

    What was particularly funny to me was watching a gas tanker getting off of the Interstate, and then seeing a legion of cars begin to collect behind it, following it, hoping to get gas at whatever station the tanker was delivering it to...

    A local TV station actually filmed one such incident and played on the local news.

    Here's the irony... After the tanker finally arrived at its stop, several of the drivers following it were asked how much gas they had in their tank... IIRC, none of them had less than 1/2 a tank.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    I see no sidewalks in that area, and a lot of awfully big people. Maybe not a coincidence

    Most areas I'm familiar with the sidewalks were put in by the developer of the subdivision, at least in the past 30 or 40 years. That means they were effectively paid for by the home purchaser. Then, the county or local jurisdiction might come behind years later and fill in some of the missing sections. I can't think of any subdivision built recently that didn't have sidewalks on at least one side of the street.

    Where I live now, started in the mid 50's, does not have sidewalks. The roads only carry local traffic - no through - so no problem walking, running, or biking, except when two F-350's come upon one another.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    There are no sidewalks because it's a big right to work state. The powers that be didn't want to make it easy for anyone passing out UAW flyers to passersby, nor did they want a place for picketing UAW workers to walk.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    The powers that be didn't want to make it easy for anyone passing out UAW flyers to passersby, nor did they want a place for picketing UAW workers to walk.

    Well, it didn't stop Verizon from picketing last summer! But, the spot on my way to work where they were picketing at has a sidewalk. :P
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Most areas I'm familiar with the sidewalks were put in by the developer of the subdivision, at least in the past 30 or 40 years.

    That's how it was done when we lived in Wichita, KS. We had a separate tax payment on top of the regular property taxes that were basically a 15 year tax (payment) to pay for the roads, sidewalks, and sewer for the subdivision.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The folks running the Georgia Public Union Pension fund seems to be doing better than the PA Non RTW state public employee pension plan. I personally think RTW states are showing more fiscal responsibility to the Working men and women than the Non RTW states. Indiana being the latest convert to RTW has already reaped jobs from Union dictators that feel they are more important than the workers.

    Pensions Find Riskier Funds Fail to Pay Off

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/business/pension-funds-making-alternative-bets- -struggle-to-keep-up.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    edited April 2012
    Maybe it's just regional - I have always lived in incorporated areas, everything has been within the city for eons, and sidewalks were a part of almost every neighborhood in the prewar days. I do have to believe that sidewalks do contribute somewhat to property taxes, as they need maintenance and sometimes have liability issues. Low taxes, lower amenities - but the opposite is not always true.

    Regarding RTW states somehow being more about the working man as was claimed in another post, Gotta use this source once again to question that. And those RTW states still have unions, mostly the most abusive kind - public sector.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    While that is a cute website. I don't see how it can be taken seriously. When they give CA a "B" for jobs and business. You do know that CA has about the highest unemployment in the nation, and the WORST Business climate as well. While the lowest in the Nation unemployment is a RTW state.

    I would have to research to find if Public employee Unions in RTW states are bankrupting their economies, like they are in California and many other states.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    High unemployment, but why, really? Lots of people without education who were cashing in during the mirage economy? And some of the highest poverty and lack of development in virtually every area is also in a RTW state. It goes both ways.

    It would be interesting to see the average pension of a cop, college professor, administrator, public utility worker etc in different areas.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It would be hard for me to imagine any state is close to CA for high Public Employee pensions. It would be expected that the largest state has the most retirees. I would love to see if any state has as many public servants on a percentage basis getting over $100,000 per year retirement. The rich and the famous retire here for obvious reasons.

    http://www.sacbee.com/2011/06/01/3667661_a3667634/100000-pension-club-of-public.- html

    Meanwhile the pot that feeds these pensions is becoming depleted:

    CalPERS earns 1.1% on investments in 2011

    Looks like Canada has their share of Public Employees bankrupting their government.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1150902--sunshine-list-ornge- -staffers-on-ontario-sunshine-list-but-some-high-rollers-excluded
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    A 100K public sector pension is insane - we all know something shady is behind that. I don't care if you are a superintendent or a governor or a judge, there is no way what you paid in can justify that reward.

    Canada is lagging us, but they will see some pain too - they have a huge real estate bubble with no reforms in sight, huge benefit liabilities, and an odd belief that letting corrupt immigrants bring their blood money in will keep it all afloat.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    A 100K public sector pension is insane - we all know something shady is behind that. I don't care if you are a superintendent or a governor or a judge, there is no way what you paid in can justify that reward.

    fin - my dad is a retired firefighter in CA, and I believe the formula has nothing to do with how much is 'paid in', but rather the average salary of the last 3 years of working prior to retirement.

    What often happens is that unused vacation pay is added in as salary, and overtime is accrued as much as possible to increase the base pay that is used to determine the pension amount. There are many firemen and police officers who are seeing 6-figure pensions.

    My dad has been retired for 21 years and his pension is something like $3K/month after taxes. Both he and mom get small SS checks, and they have just about exhausted a small annuity account that paid them $250/mo - the fact that this account lasted for 20+ years has more to do with the stock market than anything else.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I lived in Ga my first 20 years and in SC since then (58 now).

    You would have to work hard to find any state more RTW than SC.

    I wouldn't express either state as being more about the working man than unionized states, but overall more about accommodating industry and business. In SC, up until the 80's, textile mills were the principle employer in the north, and agriculture in the south.

    As an example, it's legal to ride in the back of a pickup with no safety belts, and only recently has the state moved to drivers license reform, because the agriculture industry didn't want additional restrictions on farm workers and their transportation. In the north, the textile mills were really nasty places to work.... Sort of like above the surface coal mines, with the dust and all.

    Up until the 1960's, mill "villages" we're the norm.... Owned and controlled by individual mills, the inhabitants were born, educated (in a way to contribute to mill productivity, btw... No college necessary), worked and died there. All homes were mill owned. There was even an "inter-mill" sports league, and workers played on mill teams, giving each village it's own little identity. The grocery stores were owned by the mills, and medical car was provided by the mills. In almost every way, each little community was its own little world.

    Even today, the areas still are known by the "sponsoring" mill name.

    Pensions were provided, but absolutely impossible to live on without the help of SS.

    Paradoxically, even though the workers were exploited to some extent, many today who grew up in a mill village would like to go back to it.

    Of course, the big development lately was the new Boeing plant in Charleston, located here primarily due to the RTW laws and an avidly anti-union governor and state legislature.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That is what I am seeing here in So CA. People in their 70s and 80s retired with what seemed like a big pension at the time. Inflation especially with utilities, gas and taxes have made their one time fat pension not so great today.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    Exactly, and that's shady, having pensions based off ending salary rather than monies invested. A friend of mine has parents who were both public sector - one a park ranger for 35 years, the other a teacher for 30 years. They are quite comfortable in retirement (combined I think they are up near 6 figures), no doubt moreso than the average retiree with a similar private sector history.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    I don't believe either unions or RTW are truly "for the working man", as the leadership behind both wants nothing more than an unearned pile of gold for themselves. They are both about as legit and honest as how communism existed in practice rather than on paper.

    Both ideals have positives and negatives, but I think these days there is a desire for security. In the eastern bloc, some of the same yearnings for the past exist too.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The NLRB laws governing Unions is NO different in a RTW state. Federal Law IS RTW since the 1947 Taft-Hartley Act. Closed Shop Unions are illegal in the USA. So the difference with a RTW state is rather subtle but important. Even in a state like Michigan where the UAW controls what goes on, a worker does not have to join the UAW. They do have to pay dues in the amount that it costs to run the Union. In a RTW state you do not have to pay those dues if you do not want to join. Which is the way it should be IMO.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    Here in Maryland, if a public school teacher retires with 35 years of service they can collect approximately half of their average of their highest 3 years salary. So if that average is $70K, they can retire with $35K/year. Plus COLAs and health care benefits largely paid for by the taxpayers. That's a pretty sweet deal.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    I wonder what I would have to contribute for 35 years to end up with something so nice...
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    You could do a back of the envelope calculation pretty quickly.

    Say that the $35K yearly pension for the next, oh, 20 years or so, with no COLAs, would mean that you need to have banked around $500K at the time of retirement, and will deplete that account at the end of the 20th year. So, how much would you have had to contribute each year, assuming a modest (5%?) return, to have accumulated $500K?

    Some on line calculators or just some present value/future value tables or formulas will give you a SWAG.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    if you want to factor in COLA/inflation, it gets a lot worse, really fast. One general rule of thumb I've always heard is that if you want your portfolio to last 30 years, you can't pull out more than 4% per year, adjusted for inflation. If you want it to last indefinitely, no more than 3% adjusting for inflation.

    So, to get $35K your first year, $35K plus inflation the second year, and so on, you'd have to amass roughly $875,000 if you want it to last 30 years.

    If you want to make it last indefinitely (extreme early retiree, for example), you'd have to amass around $1.167M! If it's any consolation though, even if you've "only" got $875K, you still have roughly an 81% chance of making it last indefinitely.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,493
    If only that included the medical and COLA stuff...or the eventuality that more than 20 years was needed. If only we could all be so lucky.
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