United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    If anyone didn't expect this kind of quid pro quo for the various unions and other supporters, they don't understand the politics this administration has been playing all along. This president plays to the low information voter.

    Don't forget that this game was started by the previous administration.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't forget that this game was started by the previous administration.
    Didn't Bush loan GM some TARP money to try and avoid BK? Obama redirected it to the UAW pension plan and then proceeded to rob the bondholders to keep the UAW happy.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Didn't Bush loan GM some TARP money to try and avoid BK?

    The Bush administration offered to loan the auto companies about $17 billion to buy them a few weeks but it wasn't intended to stave off bankruptcy.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >Don't forget that this game was started by the previous administration.

    As I recall President Geo. W. Bush asked what Obama-elect wanted to do. President George W. Bush then put money toward keeping GM going until Obama could effect his wishes as the new president to save the company. As I recall during the election Obama made clear he understood the economics and had it all down pat as to how best handle the economic problems.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Didn't Bush loan GM some TARP money to try and avoid BK? Obama redirected it to the UAW pension plan and then proceeded to rob the bondholders to keep the UAW happy.

    Yes, Bush pulled out the ice cream cups and put the scoops in; and Obama added whipped cream, nuts, and cherry on top. :mad:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    As I recall President Geo. W. Bush asked what Obama-elect wanted to do.

    I had never seen that mentioned before. Do you have a link to that information?
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Why wasn't the UAW pension plan also one of the new owners of GM? When GM purchased EDS and Huges Satillite for millions and sold them for billions, the UAW made sure that their pension plans were fully funded. Unlike that of the unrepresented salaried, who rued the day they opted not to be represented.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    edited December 2012
    ya out there? Are you still all militant about the UAW like always? For instance, I am a former member of Boeing's SPEEA union, the white collar union. The best thing they've ever done was earn me a great pension to start getting when I turn 62 years and 10 months old. Can't knock 'em for that.

    I would love it if we had 100% of Social Security to pick up monthly then, too. That's in to the next decade, mind you. According to sources, that's from the U.S. Federal Government, not the Federal Reserve. Is this true or false? Does it really come from the Federal Reserve and not from the U.S. Federal Government? Apparently though you might think they're one and the same they're not!

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Rocky was born with UAW DNA. He is all fired up about the Camaro being built in Lansing last I heard. He is far more into Michigan political blogs than UAW blogs. He is putting up a good stand for our gun rights. Not all liberals have it wrong all the time.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "When GM purchased EDS and Huges Satillite for millions and sold them for billions..."

    If I recall, in 1985 or 86, Roger Smith bought Hughes Electronics, ro, as he called it, Lulu, for approx 5 billion (with a "b") back then...I was unaware that GM sold Hughes, but I am sure they paid billions, not millions, even back in the 80s...
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited December 2012
    I just finished reading a book about the auto industry up through the mid 90's. GM bought bought Hughes and EDS for billions and sold both for even more billions. Hughes was incorporated into Delco and of course the whole thing was spun off as Delphi.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    A lot of Hughes was spun off to Raytheon as I recall. I think Raytheon then moved much of it from El Segundo, CA to AZ.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    A lot of Hughes was spun off to Raytheon as I recall. I think Raytheon then moved much of it from El Segundo, CA to AZ.

    GM sold Hughes Aircraft to Raytheon. It included all the weapons systems that Hughes had bought from General Dynamics during GM's ownership. The rest of of Hughes was merged with Delco which became Delphi, Boeing bought the satellite operations and News Corp bought the DirectTV business.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2013
    "The nation's unions lost 400,000 members in 2012 as the percentage of U.S. workers represented by a labor union fell to 11.3 percent, its lowest level since the 1930s - declining by 0.5 percent over the last year.

    Michigan accounted for about 10 percent of the nation's loss of unionized workers as the Wolverine State fell to the seventh most-unionized state, from fifth in 2011."

    Union membership falls to 70-year low (Detroit News)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We have lost more Union jobs in the last 4 years than the previous 8 years. Hmmmm....

    The total unionization rate declined from 11.8 percent of wage and salary workers in 2011 to 11.3 percent in 2012. Private-sector unionization fell from 6.9 percent to 6.6 percent, and the government unionization rate dropped from 37 percent to 35.9 percent. The total Obama-era decline is 1.1 percentage points, compared with 1.1 percentage points during the eight Bush years.

    Although Obama has championed union causes, his tax and regulatory policies have systematically discouraged business investment and job creation in America for all workers -- union and nonunion.


    http://washingtonexaminer.com/furchtgott-roth-why-the-unions-are-shrinking/artic- le/2519391#.UQB5QfLNnTo
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    more years and unions like the UAW and Teamsters and Longshoremen may be truly relegated to the dustbin of history...
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    The Metros were Suzukis, and had a blip in demand back around 2008 when gas prices popped.

    I still think that the Suzuki Kizashi is the best midsize car out there. I love that car. Suzuki rocks. And what do American people buy? Honkin' big pick-em-up trucks.

    What a sad joke. It is all Japanese cars...they are the best bargains and the best-made vehicles that can be bought.

    Now get back to your weird shoot-em-up video games that you can't be disturbed from playing. And no Snickers bars allowed for three months. And you must play only Beyonce music for 24 months straight. That oughta get you. ;)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    And you must play only Beyonce music for 24 months straight. That oughta get you.

    You mean Milli Vanilli Beyonce the tramp? :P
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    You mean Milli Vanilli Beyonce the tramp?

    You got it brother! :)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    We have lost more Union jobs in the last 4 years than the previous 8 years. Hmmmm....

    I wonder how much of that has to do with people retiring. Many of these heavily unionized jobs have an older workforce and once the old guys retire, they're not always replaced. The boomers are hitting retirement age. Every union worker I know over 55 has retired over the past 8-10 years.

    When my FIL was forced to retire back in 2000 when his mill went bankrupt, he had 30 years experience and still was one of the lowest in seniority in his department.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Sounds like the only union growth in the US is happening in California where the low-wage workers in the Latino labor force have increased union numbers by 100,000 in 2012. They are seeking to join the middle class. (LA Times).

    The UAW doesn't have that economic class difference to use as a recruitment tool.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The past 12 months have been tough for the UAW and its leader. The union — desperate to fill the widening gaps in its membership rolls — is no closer to realizing King's dream of organizing one of the foreign automakers' factories in the South than it was at the beginning of 2012.

    He may not be worried about right to work, but Detroit's Big Three automakers are. Privately, senior executives at General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group LLC worry about the impact it will have on worker morale. King said they should be.

    King acknowledged that Nissan and the other foreign automakers are proving tougher nuts to crack than he expected.

    King: UAW needs to refocus, re-energize (Detroit News)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    King is a traitor to the UAW. He backed Obama's trade agreements that have taken more auto related work from the USA. He is more into politics than looking out for the Union members. RTW is the least of the UAW problems. Their pension fund is once again way under funded. At least with RTW they may attract some companies to the empty factories in the state.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    His term is up next year so the members would be able to vote him out, assuming he runs again to head up the union. Don't see anyone else in the wings to run against him though.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    All the layoffs must be from the election winding down.

    For those who remember this rather off-topic thread, what did I tell you? :shades:

    U.S. Economy Unexpectedly Contracts in Fourth Quarter (WSJ)

    Lots of that was actually due to federal spending cuts, but at least car sales are booming, which is good news for the UAW.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    edited January 2013
    Typically the housing and auto industry is first into recession and first out of recession. As for the WSJ it has been wrong prior. Can we quote the Wall Street Journal?
    "Richardson Texas will be the BOOM town year 2000"

    In many ways, it's worse. Like the massive declines in the nation's steel, oil and automobile industries in decades past, the disintegration of the telecom business is leaving deep wounds in the U.S. work force. But labor historians say telecom stands out for the unprecedented speed of the boom-and-bust cycle. After telecom was deregulated in 1996, it quickly expanded by some 331,000 jobs before peaking in late 2000. Since the downturn started, though, companies have announced layoffs that have wiped out all those new jobs and more -- a total of well over 500,000 workers, according to a tally by The Wall Street Journal. By contrast, it took two decades for the ranks of the United Auto Workers to fall to 732,000 from 1.5 million, as the auto industry was forced to become much more efficient in the face of foreign competition.

    http://www.happinessonline.org/InfectiousGreed/p26.htm
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It would be interesting to see where all those people are 10 years later. Did they get rich off the housing bubble? If not they may be flipping burgers. They have probably joined the Architects that are now a dime a dozen. If they are smart they went back and took some courses and are now in the Fracking business. My nephew just flew to TX at a companies expense for an interview. He graduates this May from UCSD with a BS degree. He was offered a job right out of college in the gas fracking industry. Those without jobs should head to ND and get in on the last big black gold rush. Times change and it is our responsibility to change with them or get left out in the cold.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2013
    Wonder what McDonald's is paying in Fargo or Bismark? Probably more than minimum wage. And no UAW dues.

    No cheap place to live either I bet. Probably lots worse over in Williston though.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I told Rocky he needs to snag an old Winnebago and head over there. Make the big bucks while they are flowing. He keeps believing something will come around in Michigan. The UAW is all but dead. Some people cannot see the forest for the trees. You got to go for the gusto or just be satisfied bagging groceries at Krogers.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,374
    From Peter M. De Lorenzo's January 30th Autoextremist:

    The plainly delusional head of the UAW embarrassed himself - yet again - in a rambling interview with The Detroit News last Friday. In typical King fashion he blamed everyone else - while insisting he wasn't blaming anybody - for the UAW's troubles, including Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder, the failure of the Democratic party to bolster his union and the Evil Empire of Nissan. King went so far as making accusations, according to The News, against Nissan's management at its Canton facility, including this: "In Nissan Canton, every level of management in that plant has been involved in threats and intimidation of workers," King said, adding that workers at the Mississippi plant have been told the factory will be closed or future vehicles will be produced elsewhere if they vote to unionize. "It is an attack on human rights, civil rights, worker rights." To Nissan's credit, they blasted back, basically accusing King of not telling the truth, although I'm sure they wanted to use much harsher words. "The UAW's continued attempts to disparage Nissan are unfounded. Over the last 30 years Nissan's U.S. manufacturing operations have built a hard-earned reputation for being ethical, honest and transparent in our dealings with our employees and the communities where we do business," said company spokesman David Reuter. The real issue? King can't for the life of him figure out why no transplant auto manufacturing facility wants anything to do with his union, even though he has been insisting for going on two years now that it would just be a matter of time before they succumb to the UAW's bullying tactics. No, the reality is that it's just a matter of time before the UAW completely implodes due to the weight of its delusional view of the world and its ridiculous intransigence. This just in: It's all over except for the hand-wringing for the UAW. And it's oddly comforting - and comical - that King continues to be the last one to know.

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It will be most interesting to see how many UAW folks opt out of paying dues now that Michigan is RTW. If I was a young worker making $15 per hour working along side some old dude knocking down $30 per hour, I would tell the UAW where to stuff it. King needs to start looking out for his workers and not trying to get some fat cat appointment from Obama. That is all he was doing backing Free trade agreements that were sure to cost Americans more jobs.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    edited February 2013
    and get ABG's, EKG's, give breathing tx's and assist with intubations. :)

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    But I just read it for the first time (from some wag in Illinois before car sales picked back up):

    UAW stands for U Ain't Working.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "King can't for the life of him figure out why no transplant auto manufacturing facility wants anything to do with his union, even though he has been insisting for going on two years now that it would just be a matter of time before they succumb to the UAW's bullying tactics. No, the reality is that it's just a matter of time before the UAW completely implodes due to the weight of its delusional view of the world and its ridiculous intransigence. This just in: It's all over except for the hand-wringing for the UAW. And it's oddly comforting - and comical - that King continues to be the last one to know."

    He represents EVERYONE that is a UAW member, pure and simple...they have lived in a cloud for decades, thinking that tightening lug nuts is skilled labor worth $35/hour...it isn't...it is that simple...they have this inflated view of themselves, like Hollywood movie stars who live in their own vacuum, believing their own press clippings...

    At least the buggy whip makers realized the handwriting on the wall when they saw more and more cars drive past their shops every day...these UAW idiots think they will bring the transplants into their fold when those folks run like hell when the union appraches...

    The UAW is as obsolete as the old 5 pound cell phones, they just don;t know it because they have a Democrat in the White House trying to insulate them from reality...it works now, but the fuse is burning slowly...

    If the Repubs take the White House in 2016 (another topic, I know) you can assume that the UAW will be history by the 2nd year of the administration...and the nation will be better off for it...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group LLC — plan to hand out more than $780 million in profit-sharing checks.

    GM will pay 49,000 U.S. hourly workers up to $6,750 each, Ford will pay 45,800 U.S. hourly workers an average of $8,300 each, and Chrysler Group LLC this month paid 31,000 U.S. hourly workers an average of about $2,250.

    The combined per-worker total of $17,300 is only slightly lower than the $17,875 total the three automakers paid out in 1999, according to the UAW. It's also $2,600 higher than the combined bonuses last year."

    UAW members in southeast Michigan to share $360M in profit-sharing checks (Detroit News)
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    Profit sharing/bonuses make a lot more sense here than a higher wage base, for which the company would be forever stuck with along with the increased pension costs that go along with an increase in the base wage. Plus, the bonus system keeps the workers feet to the fire, so to speak. They (and the company) have to perform or no profit sharing.

    It would be interesting to what the C-Level executives pulled down as bonuses for the same period.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited February 2013
    San Diego voted for cutting Union Pensions last November. It will likely end up in the SC. In the meantime it is the law. Hopefully other cities will do this to protect the tax payers from underfunded pension plans.

    SAN DIEGO — An administrative law judge with the state’s Public Employment Relation Board, or PERB, has ruled San Diego leaders should have negotiated with labor unions on eliminating pensions before taking the issue to the ballot

    City Attorney Jan Goldsmith said this ruling changes nothing. He said the issue was brought to vote through a citizen’s initiative process, which is protected through the State Constitution.

    "We’re not gonna back down one iota, I can tell you that," he said. "Because the people do have a right under direct democracy to bypass the city council, to bypass the state legislature, to bypass the labor unions, and to bypass PERB. This is a constitutional right, no different than the first amendment."

    Goldsmith said the city had anticipated this outcome. San Diego must now go to a PERB review panel and can then go to the courts. The process could take years. In the meantime, Goldsmith said the city can continue to implement the voter approved switch to 401(k)s for most new city employees.

    PERB had filed several lawsuits against the city, asking the courts to first take pension reform off the ballot, and then to delay implementing it once voters approved the measure.


    http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/feb/13/state-agency-rules-against-san-diegos-pensi- - on-refo/
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited February 2013
    "Keep your so-called workers," U.S. boss tells France
    By Emmanuel Jarry and Catherine Bremer | Reuters

    PARIS (Reuters) - The CEO of a U.S. tire maker has delivered a crushing summary of how some outsiders view France's work ethic in a letter saying he would have to be stupid to take over a factory whose staff only put in three hours work a day.

    Titan International's Maurice Taylor, nicknamed "The Grizz" for his negotiating style, told the left-wing French industry minister in a letter published by media on Wednesday that he had no interest in rescuing a plant set for closure.

    "The French workforce gets paid high wages but works only three hours. They get one hour for breaks and lunch, talk for three and work for three," Taylor wrote on February 8 in the letter in English to the minister, Arnaud Montebourg.

    "I told this to the French union workers to their faces. They told me that's the French way!" Taylor added in the letter, which was posted by business daily Les Echos on its website and which the ministry confirmed was genuine.

    "Titan is going to buy a Chinese tire company or an Indian one, pay less than one Euro per hour wage and ship all the tires France needs," he said. "You can keep the so-called workers."

    Socialist President Francois Hollande might take some comfort in Taylor's view of his own country's business policies: "The U.S. government is not much better than the French," he said, referring to a dispute over Chinese exports.


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/20/us-france-workers-idUSBRE91J0OF2013022- 0
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    Heh, just posted that over in Buying American Cars. The WSJ link there has a copy of the letter up.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Very interesting story on one of the abandoned factories in Detroit.

    ” Meet Allan Hill, the man who lives In Detroit’s abandoned Packard Auto Plant”

    http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/03/meet-allan-hill-the-man-wh- o-lives-in-detroits-abandoned-packard-auto-plant-2593864.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2013
    He's got his computer and he has net access, so he's set. Reminds me of Whittier AK. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    He probably has cable in there. Has to be cold though.

    Last time I was in Whittier was around 1973. Before they started to renovate that military building. We hauled my landlord's boat over on the train, and spent several days in Prince William Sound fishing. From Google maps it looks a lot different today.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The chickens have come home to roost!

    Food Pantry Serves Growing Hunger in Suburbia</a
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I live in a somewhat upscale rural area. I am amazed at how many Caddies and Mercedes are parked in the lot on food bank days. Ralph's gives out food to anyone that wants it. Mostly fresh veggies, potatoes, onions, lettuce etc. along with bread and day old pastries. This depression is hitting right up into the upper middle classes. Living at the ragged edge can really get a family. No problem if you got kids. They will dump buckets of money on you.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,498
    Of course, you can also find decent enough looking old Caddys and MBs for a few grand, and finance them for eons. I could see a car loan crisis like the home loan crisis not long ago.

    But no doubt, this virtually unregulated "free trade" socialize losses/privatize windfalls system is creating demand for safety net services.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2013
    "In Chattanooga, you need union representation" to negotiate working conditions, IG Metall President Berthold Huber said in a letter distributed in early March to the plant's 2,350 hourly employees.

    "We strongly recommend that the eligible employees at Volkswagen, Chattanooga, decide that the UAW should represent them," he added.

    Huber's letter is another positive sign for the UAW. Last week, Horst Neumann, VW's board member in charge of human resources, said the company was in talks with the UAW about setting up a German-style labor board at the Tennessee factory."

    German union chief to VW Tennessee workers - Join UAW (Reuters)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It will be interesting to see how it goes. When I went to work for RCA Alascom, they welcomed the Teamsters as they had contracts all over the World with the parent company RCA Globecom. They were on the side of the Teamsters from the get go. The Techs wanted the IBEW. IBEW sold us out and we ended up Teamsters. There are advantages for the company. They don't have to deal individually with employees on pay. No hotshots coming into the bosses office saying I am worth more than those other workers. Good for the common worker, bad for the hardworking individuals.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Welcome to the Great Disconnect - the 21st-century American economy.

    Look no further than the elections of 2006 and 08. I know in CA we are shedding 5.4 businesses per week. Most due to over regulations. The only unions left here with any stroke are the worst kind, the Public Employee Unions. They are giving all Unions a bad name. The State, county, city workers are not hurting like the private sector. Except in the cities they have pushed into bankruptcy. At the Federal level many have gotten fat raises over the last 5 years.

    So it is the government workers and the 1%ers that are getting richer, while the rest of US are getting poorer and paying more for everything including taxes.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,498
    Trickle down, it will work eventually! I promise! :P

    Some who have legitimate fear of being strung up (or continue to have hopeless dreams of joining that class, as is typical for the poorly educated pseudo-capitalist) whine about "class warfare" - it should be obvious who has declared war on who.
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