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Comments
Thug mentality the norm for Michigan:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/11/fox-news-contributor-punched-in-face-- at-pro-union-protests-in-michigan/
I agree. Just because RTW has passed, I simply do not see companies lining up for Michigan, whereas they seem to be in Indiana...after 10 years in Detroit, I just think that the entire work force has been tainted like a toxic waste dump that needs years of washing before it is de-contaminated.
That militant attitude of UAW people will NOT disappear in a generation. Thay have attitude problems where they just think that tightening a screw is "skilled labor" and worth $35/hour plus benefits, and it simply is not...like a spoiled child who learns the world does not give him something just because he cries, the UAW folks will sabotage any company that might hire them, and I question if ANY companies would hire former UAW workers...
Companies will seek out the unemployed, but when they do background checks and find out where they worked in the last 25 years, you can be sure that any UAW worker will have their application torn up, then shredded, then burned in a high temperature furnace until the ashes would not reveal any evidence to Abby on NCIS...
UAW workers are toxic, and any employer considering Michigan will know that...the only reason to pass RTW was to give any non-union unemployed a chance to work...just watch...
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/11/Lansing-Mayor-Tells-Mob-I-Am-- - Proud-Of-You-As-City-Erupts-In-Chaos
>UAW workers are toxic, and any employer considering Michigan will know that
It may be more than the workers who are toxic: the politicians in MI may still be a problem. This Virgil Bernero ran for governor in 2010. Lucky he wasn't elected with that kind of public opinion about labor unions.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not sure that part is correct. You had plenty of experienced auto worker labor in Michigan, and all that auto infrastructure, yet all the import brands chose to locate in RTW states - even though the infrastructure was not there (yet), and the workforce was not experienced in auto building. That says something right there about how many skills are required.
Federal law is RTW since 1947 and the Taft Hartley Act. Indiana has been RTW for public employees since 1995. Indiana is getting new business while Michigan, Illinois are not. Not rocket science. Indiana is controlled by Republicans that want more business in the state. And the workers have a right to unionize if they want to. I wonder how well the UAW would fare at the big Toyota plant in Princeton, Indiana? I think we are seeing the silent majority in Michigan saying at the polls we are tired of being run by a bunch of UAW thugs. Snyder won by a landslide in 2010 against Bernero.
I'm not saying RTW can't play into a decision. Rather I don't think it is usually the primary driver in either the location decision or local wages paid. I will say that I think large militant reputation unions like the Teamsters or UAW may rightfully scare away business prospects though making Detroit a bit scary. Also don't forget that the south has a low cost of living, so southerners work for cheap. Ironically though, as car assembly becomes more of a systems process, I don't think assembly wages will be as critical of an issue in the near future since subs will start playing an even larger role (and many of them service both transplants and D3) in manufacturing and vehicle cost structure. That's what's happening with the B787.
I'm sure the union wages is one reason why both the D3 and Boeing want to outsource more. Of course Boeing had a heapload of problems on the 787, some of it caused by all that outsourcing. I toured their plant in WA about a year before first flight, and there were tons of extra engineer desks set up on the shop floor for extra work required to address a multitude of issues, which wasn't cheap at all.
Of course Boeing also built a non-union second plant in South Charleston SC to assemble 787s in addition to Everett, WA.
I hear the Boeing union is talking strike again, too.
I've often wondered why companies like Caterpillar and John Deere haven't moved many operations there given the access to shipping ports? I think it's more than RTW because building a plant is one huge capital investment to begin with. Cat is interesting. During one of their UAW militancy stages, they actually stopped production of a new plant outside of Peoria and for many years let it sit uncompleted as a message and reminder. For whatever reasons, Deere doesn't seem to have all that much trouble with their UAW. The aircraft and aerospace business has moved a lot of it's facilities from southern CA to places like AZ and TX, but I think that was more about California over regulation, cost of living and taxes than RTW. Aerospace, chemical and electrical engineers still make pretty good wages in AZ and TX because the national job market for those skills is still strong. I still think RTW will have more impact on state and local gov workers that can currently strike, than it will on currently profitable company business operations. There is no ongoing mass migration of company operations out of the north and into RTW states. Expansion of new plants perhaps, but not major moves of current operations. RTW can be a factor, but I don't think it's the driver it's being made out to be in the media right now. That's why I believe it is more about republicans consolidating power over future election campaign funding. Personally, I don't particularly care for either party and hope at some point independents or new political parties become more numerous in gov. RTW isn't going to be a salvation for poorly run states and municipalities, nor badly managed companies.
A scaling back of the insane megalomaniacal military-industrial complex (never going to happen, I know) would change the labor landscape in many area.
The billionaire wanting taxpayer assistance is Mike Ilitch who made his money with Little Caesars.
From what I know of the guy, I like what he's done to help out downtown Detroit a lot. Really wanted the Tigers to win the World Series for him, since he's may not be around too many more years.
It's about time sports billionaires stopped being subsidized by tax money. Hamilton County, OHio, (Cincinnati) is suffering under the past contract to subsidize the Bengals stadium and the Reds stadium. They had to withdraw the $50 per property tax credit to individuals to pay costs of the stadiums and contract demands. The property tax credits had been given in exchange for votes for a sales tax to pay for the stadiums for the wealthy teams.
Michigan unions had the ballot initiative to write union law into the state law and it got voted down. Then this is the backfire for it.
Ohio has a lot to lose if Indiana and Michigan are RTW. The UAW has to cringing that Ohio may actually try to pass RTW next. But I doubt it will happen politically. Ohio lost too many UAW jobs with the recession and C/GM collapse.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In Seattle, one of the arenas is nicknamed "The House The Taxpayers Built" :shades:
The unions really did try to overreach with that one and it went down in big flames.
Another factor is that the governor's point man in the legislature was getting flack from the more conservative/tea party Republicans and there was talk of voting someone else in as leader. So the RTW action was a bit of a sop to that faction so the governor could move stuff that he cares more about forward.
Bet you anything that the Koch Brothers circulated the draft RTW legislation in Ohio months or years ago. (Detroit Free Press) The UAW best not get over-confident down your way either.
Indiana tackled that problem in 1995. All public unions are open shops (RTW) applies. The recent RTW was opening up the freedom to private sector workers being exploited by thug Unions like the UAW. There was no real mass hysteria as the rank and file in Indiana are much smarter than the gorillas in Michigan. Indiana will prosper, Michigan will end up like CA only with crappy weather.
I think a lot has to go into the decision to move a company or start a new one. Cost is BIG, labor pool important, infrastructure in place. It looks though that Indiana made the right move going with RTW as an added incentive.
45 companies have communicated to the Indiana Economic Development Corporation (IEDC) that Indiana’s enactment of right-to-work will factor into their decision-making process of where to locate current projects
39 of these projects have progressed to the pipeline stage and account for more than 4,560 projected new jobs and $897 million in investment
of these 39 companies, 10 have already accepted the IEDC’s offer, accounting for 700 projected new jobs and $166 million in investment
of these 10 companies, four have publicly announced that right-to-work was a factor in their decision-making process: Steel Dynamics, Inc. (Pittsboro), Android Industries (Fort Wayne), Busche (Albion) and SealCorpUSA (Evansville)
The last one being important to me as I have picked Evansville as a place to buy and refurbish foreclosed properties.
http://www.morehoosierjobs.com/right-to-work
Not sure what that has to do with overpaid cops and public employee unions running amuck.
There was an article about that very thing (WSJ?) in the past couple of weeks. According to that article, there is a large infrastructure of workers and suppliers that have grown up in that area to support Cat, Deere, Kubota, and other big equipment manufacturers. It pointed out, for instance, that much of the welding on the big mining machines is still done by hand because of the unique requirements of welding that type of gear. So you have this whole ecosystem in that part of the country that's unique to heavy machinery manufacturing. That sort of ecosystem would be difficult to replace or develop in another part of the country.
That was tried here in Maryland when the legislature passed measures to have the taxpayers fund the building of the baseball and football stadiums in downtown Baltimore. It was brought to referendum, but the court threw out the referendum because it was deemed a tax or funding bill, and as such could not be petitioned to referendum - something I think in the maryland Constitution.
Too bad CA doesn't have such a law. We got stuck with $70 million to expand the Football stadium for a stupid Super Bowl. Then it was too big for baseball so we ended up spending millions more on a stupid baseball stadium. And they spent most of the money slated for a new library in the process. All for illiterate sports fans. The opiate of the masses.
The RTW legislation included "dubious" funding for that very reason (dubious since the appropriation is to publicize and enforce the RTW provisions, like the media has ignored the issue, lol). Otherwise the unions would be gathering petitions today to put the issue on the ballot next year. Now they'll focus on recalls and litigation instead I suppose.
The RTW crowd may have out-smarted themselves on that one. I bet RTW would pass handily.
Plus we could have used the financial boost of all that Koch and Soros money pouring in.
(police and firefighters), and all certificated public school employees (teachers) already have Right to Work protection from other existing laws. To see the actual language of these statutory protections, federal employees click here; state employees click here; police and firefighters click here; teachers click here.
http://www.nrtw.org/en/special-legal-notice-most-private-sector-workers-indiana
Unfortunately for Michigan and especially Detroit their new RTW law exempts cops and firefighters. Same BS that happened in Wisconsin. Rocky says the "cops and firefighters support Right Wing Teatards".. Whatever the reason it shows poor judgement on the part of the state legislature.
“Android chose Indiana and specifically Fort Wayne because it’s both an employee- and employer-friendly environment,” said vice president of human resources David Donnay. “Recently, Indiana became a right-to-work state and offers us a competitive location and a skilled work force to complement our state of the art technology.”
Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder just signed right-to-work into law in his state. While critics of the policy complain that he did not campaign on the issue, Snyder suggests that Indiana’s move forced his hand.
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/12/12/gov-snyder-looks-to-indianas-right-to-work-s- uccess/
My daughter is very active in the Evansville, IN schools, and says the public schools are very good compared to her experience here in San Diego.
"The Indiana Economic Development Corporation offered Android Industries Ft. Wayne, up to $400,000 in conditional tax credits and up to $50,000 in training grants based on the company's job creation plans." (areadevelopment.com)
At least they are performance based, assuming the company doesn't go banko and dry up. May as well build a stadium too.
You know about Tech eh? I got one of their mugs. :shades:
These tax credits are performance-based, meaning until Hoosiers are hired, the company is not eligible to claim incentives.
"Nick Ciaramitaro, director of legislation and public policy for the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 25, Detroit’s largest employee union, cited the delinquent taxes at a hearing this afternoon before the House Tax Policy Committee, where the Ilitch organization was making its case for a law allowing taxes collected through Detroit’s DDA to be used for the new arena plan."
Ilitch company owes nearly $1 million in taxes to Detroit (Detroit Free Press)
What I said the other day? Never mind.
The issue I can see with a small shop trying to train is the loss of trained people after the money is spent.
Not so fast there. Lambeau Field is owned by the city of Greenbay. The renovation back in 2001-2003 was paid for by an additional sales tax in Brown County to the tune of $200 million. The Packers pay rent of $500K a year and keep 100% of all the revenue.
In topical news, the Detroit News has a good story on how Ron King over-reached in Michigan and had RTW crammed down his throat.
UAW chief admits some mistakes in pushing Prop 2 despite Snyder's warnings
"I'd rather try and fail than not try at all," King said in an interview Thursday from Geneva, Switzerland, where he is attending a meeting of a global union federation. "This was a hard blow. Did we make some mistakes on Prop 2? Yes, we did. We did it because of broader concerns for the labor movement" — legislation barring dues collection from public school teachers being one example that particularly rankled.
The bottom line, according to multiple sources close to the situation, is that Prop 2's smackdown by voters statewide made right to work a political certainty in the state capital of the UAW's home. It also trains special attention on King's tendency to make critical political decisions with scant input from other national labor leaders or Dems in Michigan's congressional delegation.
Everybody knew what was coming."
I think perhaps all those liberal weenies up in the drizzly northwest has put too much humidity in your thinking. The home of tech titans like Amazon and Microsoft, where even there, CEOs make lots of money and try to avoid taxes. :P
Crooked irresponsible treacherous money knows no political bounds. Just as those who scream about unions are often no better than the worst union leadership henchmen.
"Just know one thing, Rick Snyder: You sign that bill, you won't get no rest," said Rev. Charles Williams II at the Tuesday rally in Lansing, according to Michigan Capitol Confidential. "We'll meet you on Geddes Road. We'll be at your daughter's soccer game. We'll visit you at your church. We'll be at your office."
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/pro-union-activist-michigan-governor-well-be- -your-daughters-soccer-game_666554.html
It would be hard to outdo the union behavior in CA. Perhaps only outdone by MI.
Speaking of henchmen, if King has blown it in MI, but somehow is at some union event in Switzerland, then I suspect he's on a junket paid for by the union workers' dues. Another nice perk.
If that was aimed my direction, just give me my 46 years of investment into SS and MC with interest and I will happily take care of myself till death do us part. We have a new Doctor in our little town that is independent of any type insurance. He has a good reputation and charges very reasonable rates for medical attention and surgery. He has written a book for those that are tired of the healthcare system in this country.
http://www.amazon.com/Patienthood-American-patients-ownership-healthcare/dp/1466- 31656X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1355543403&sr=1-1&keywords=patienthood
And you'll end up reaping more out of SS/MC than my generation, I fear :sick: