United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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Comments

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2012
    Can you imagine the grudge matches if the UAW played the Teamsters?

    Even better, have the Longshoremen play management. :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,514
    I have to wonder if those GPAs are earned, or even in the Ivy League, if those players could have gained admission without the sport. I only follow hockey, but some of these guys who played for big name schools seem as sharp as a bag of wet hair.

    Defenders of the jockocracy system will claim that college athletes aren't paid at all, so organizing would probably be a bad decision.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Simple solution for all - just put in a PE degree program - just kidding!
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited December 2012
    I have to wonder if those GPAs are earned, or even in the Ivy League, if those players could have gained admission without the sport.

    The Ivies are different on the their recruiting process. They use an academic index that allows lower high school scores to be accepted if they are exceptional players. If a prospect scores in the low band based on academics, they have to be impact players that are being recruited by the big schools in their sports. But then those players have to be able to maintain their GPA once in an Ivy school atmosphere.

    Then again, teams can offer a spot to a high academic achiever who will never play a game just to get that team GPA up. In football, it might be easier with 60 roster spots. Hockey, lacrosse, basketball is much harder to bury the poor student/strong athlete.

    Outside of the Ivies, poorer students can get scholarships in football and basketball simply because there are more Division 1 schools offering those sports. In hockey, lacrosse, golf, swimming, et al there are fewer D1 opportunities hence those schools have the pick of the best.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,514
    edited December 2012
    Hmm...that makes sense, explains how some names I won't mention get into the real prestige schools, or BU, etc. I am sure "maintaining that GPA" isn't as strenuous as a student who is there just to study rather than to take part in a glorified/disguised pro developmental league, as well. Probably some fun pressures on the teaching side.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    For an interesting perspective on college athletics and classroom performance, go the the NCAA web site and look up post graduate scholarships. The NCAA gives out 90 (I think) post graduate awards each for male and female scholar-athletes, 30 for each for the fall, winter, and spring seasons.

    The academic criteria for being considered is pretty steep, either a 3.2 or 3.5 GPA IIRC. The athletic criteria varies with the sport. Point is, most of the awardees (at least in the year my son graduated) are from 2nd tiered programs, like swimming or cross country. Not many awardees were from football or basketball. In fact, the year my son graduated 11 of the 30 post graduate awards for men went to swimmers or divers.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,514
    Makes sense, really. Those devoted to sports that generally won't gain them an income nor are involved with scholarship programs loaded with insane perks actually have to be students too.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    edited December 2012
    Push Against Unions Flares In Michigan

    Unions in Michigan are trying to fend off a push by Republican lawmakers to pass right-to-work legislation—the latest in a string of challenges to organized labor in one of its traditional Midwestern strongholds.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    This will be a fun one to watch. I was at a small town craft fair last week and two guys my age were yakking away in the aisle about work and such. Didn't hear much of the conversation but one guy was talking about a company hiring scabs.

    I still don't have a good feel for the state; seems like there quite a bit of resentment over union jobs and wages, but it also seems like everyone has a close friend, neighbor or family member who belongs to a union. Our cat sitting neighbor barely scrapes by with her union job and cleans houses on the side to help make ends meet.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Being a life long union member I can understand both sides. While the Union can be a benefit to both the worker and the company, many times it becomes a back breaker for the company and enslavement of the workers. First I don't see where Unions made things better for all the working classes. In fact quite the opposite. If someone in Detroit is competing to buy a home working a Non UAW job, he has to make Union wages, or will likely lose out. That is RARELY the case. Michigan is filled with manufacturing. Much of it is non union. Check to see if they make as much as a senior UAW employee at GM. I think the state legislators see the handwriting on the wall. It is the RTW states getting the new factories. While the rust belt states continue to lag behind. The Unions are not a plus for any state as they have an inordinate amount of influence over elections. Which causes Corporations to retaliate in kind.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A great experiment would be to make Detroit a RTW enclave, sort of like those tax-free enterprise zones.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    edited December 2012
    >A great experiment would be to make Detroit a RTW enclave

    With the rumors of taking away Detroit's city status, they could make it RTW zone--make it its own region within the state.

    I'm hoping the RTW comes into Ohio now after the UAW and others propagandized the production value of Jeep in Toledo to the citizens as though all the UAW and related union jobs had been reinvented by the pols. Lots of past union employees around here with no union jobs, and hardly even nonunion jobs. And our governor is solidly antiunion, although he will tolerate them after the referendum repeal of his bill taking away union rights for everyone (almost), not just the overpaid UAW seniors.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Very interesting thought. It would give incentive to rebuild in the ashes of a once thriving metropolis. They need something and quick.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    > great experiment would be to make Detroit a RTW enclave, sort of like those tax-free enterprise zones.

    That's a great idea Steve had there.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2012
    For many years I considered RTW states as being poor prospects for the working man. I think time has proven me wrong. Most of the RTW states are coming out of this depression, while some of the non RTW states like CA, IL, PA & NJ keep sinking deeper into recession.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Jeep in Toledo

    I'm still bummed the wedding last month sucked up all our time in Toledo. Didn't get to walk around town, much less eat at Packo's. A Jeep factory tour would be fun but I guess they don't have them. The glass museums there looked really neat.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >sucked up all our time in Toledo.

    It's about 5 hours from where you are to Toledo for a redo, isn't it? Do a return visit to Ohio and catch what you missed.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2012
    I wish - more like 11. Toledo to "the bridge" is about 7 or more, and that just gets you to the UP. It's da boonies. ;)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    With the rumors of taking away Detroit's city status...

    Can you explain this?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,046
    I wonder if that would simply mean un-incorporating the city?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    So some chatter on an internet board from mid 2009 is the basis for saying the city of Detroit will not exist in the future??

    Little bit of a stretch IMHO.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There are still 706K residents in Detroit. They are only murdering about 400 per year. So it will take a long time for them to kill each other off. According to city-data there are only about 7.8% whites. Makes it some what hazardous to drive through there. I see some pretty impressive skyline photos of Detroit. So it must not all be a battle zone. I say level the devastation and plant crops. Get US back to an Agrarian culture.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Aren't there signs at Detroit's city limits that read "Enter at Your Own Risk?" There are two mini-Detroits not far from Philly: Camden, NJ and Chester, PA. These two cities should be bulldozed into the Delaware River which is sad as both were industrial powerhouses 50-odd years ago.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2012
    Nah, Detroit is easy. It's not NYC but I like it a bit better than going to Chicago.

    On the other hand, I remember some guy chasing me at midnight going through Philly on my way to Vermont back in the late 70s. I just ran the red light in my Bug while watching the guy slowly disappear in my rear view mirror (even a Bug could outrun someone on foot, lol).

    Looks like the UAW is humming there, in spite of a "little" drug ring bust at Boeing in September. (Philly.com and Reuters).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,514
    Florida's motto used to be "maybe you won't get shot", and the signs facing the road heading north out of the state read "We'll get you next time". No UAW down there, another prosperous and highly developed place.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Miami, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis... there are a lot of tough cities out there where bangers seem to rule because they outgun the cops.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What amazes me is you have all those over paid UAW people selling drugs. If I was Boeing I would dump the Union next time they go on strike. There has to be a higher class of workers that are interested in working and not dealing drugs.

    Probably spend their bonus on drugs.

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/boeing-rotorcraft-employees-ratify-new-5- -year-contract-64701752.html
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    No UAW down there, another prosperous and highly developed place.

    There are 7 UAW locals in Florida.

    http://www.unions.org/unions/florida/9/united-auto-workers/38
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,514
    How is that? For retirees? Weird.

    I wonder if they'll ever have any luck with MB and BMW down in that region. I have visited those facilities, and they didn't exactly seem like dens of labor unrest.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think FL was the number one winter destination for UAW retirees. In the fat cat days of that Union they would own their home in Detroit, big cabin on a lake and a winter home in Florida. That is the past for the UAW and its future retirees. Cruise back and forth in a Caddy or Lincoln Town car.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    How is that? For retirees? Weird

    Maybe not. The UAW represents more than just auto workers. Can't tell from the link Gary provided who specifically those unions represent, but the one in Clearwater could represent aerospace workes at Honeywell (or is it General Dynamics).
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited December 2012
    According to city-data there are only about 7.8% whites. Makes it some what hazardous to drive through there.

    Did you really mean to say this??

    What amazes me is you have all those over paid UAW people selling drugs.

    Wow. Just Wow.

    /FACEPALM/
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Did you really mean to say this??

    Not sure how to say it Politically correct. The Detroit Police have issued warnings to anyone going into the City. Proceed at your own risk. It is in total decay. And who would be most vulnerable?

    Will Obama bail out Detroit?

    Detroit councilwoman to Obama: We voted for you, now bail us out

    How about Camden, Stockton, Vallejo, San Bernardino, and Los Angeles?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited December 2012
    Not sure how to say it Politically correct.

    How about not saying anything at all instead of a making such a blatant racist statement. It's 2012, not 1962.

    The Detroit Police have issued warnings to anyone going into the City. Proceed at your own risk.

    Nice way to twist a story around. That's a statement from the attorney for the Detroit police union. They feel there aren't enough cops on the streets and are asking for more money and officers. The flyers distributed by the OFF DUTY patrolmen at the Tigers game was for publicity that the city was planning to cut pay and staff. That's usually the type of thing you would jump on to trash a union.

    Wow - just wow.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    edited December 2012
    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20264712/detroit-councilwoman-to-obama-we-supp- - - orted-you-now-support-us

    Nice quid-pro-quo there...

    Of course Detroit has had lots of problems with getting leaders into positions who can actually lead. Several highly placed folks have had "problems." I suggest doing google searches on your own to find all the problem characters that have failed the leadership test during the last decade or so.

    I listen to Detroit radio along with other stations at times and the problem of Detroit running out of money and expecting to be bailed out (like the federal gov?) with more money from somewhere else has been discussed. Alternatives to that have been discussed--I do not know what the laws of Michigan offer to reduce the size of Detroit's responsibility for streets, cops, etc., but lots of options were brought out. I know that what I think are cities in Michigan are townships instead that operate like cities. Maybe the core of Detroit becomes a small "New Detroit" and the state could place actual leaders in the positions who can run businesses, unlike many recent folks. The rest of the area can become Wayne County again. That would throw cost of services onto the rest of Wayne County's residents to cover for the failure of the square miles of Old Detroit.

    Robt: feel free to do your own googles for information since you didn't like mine :grin.

    There are several wiki pages, which may contain revisionist history on some of the participants, available.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Detroit

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick

    The wife of a senator or representative from Michigan was on the council and she had problems about something she'd done...

    Google is your friend.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It's 2012, not 1962.

    I felt a heck of a lot safer in big cities in 1962 than I do in 2012. My black and Latino friends feel the same way. The reality of the US is blacks are worse off NOW than they were when Obama took office. One day they will realize it was not Bush that caused their misery.

    That's a statement from the attorney for the Detroit police union.

    Are you saying that Detroit is a safe place to wander around at night? How many cops would it take to make Detroit safe for me to walk around after a show? 1962 I worked in the part of San Diego that was predominately black. It was a peaceful neighborhood. Did not need a cop on every corner.

    So is the police Union in Detroit willing to take cuts so more can be hired?

    The Detroit Police Officers Association is warning citizens and out-of-towners that they enter Detroit at their own risk, saying that the "grossly understaffed" and overworked police force cannot adequately protect the public in the increasingly violent city.

    “Detroit is America’s most violent city, its homicide rate is the highest in the country and yet the Detroit Police Department is grossly understaffed,” DPOA Attorney Donato Iorio told WWJ over the weekend. “The DPOA believes that there is a war in Detroit, but there should be a war on crime, not a war on its officers.”


    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/08/14294269-visit-detroit-at-your-own-ri- sk-police-union-warns?lite
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    is not being recognized by the Unions?

    Detroit police union going to court to stave off 10 percent pay cut

    (Reuters) - Detroit's police union will file an appeal with Michigan courts to keep the city from cutting officers' pay by 10 percent, the Detroit Police Officers Association said on Monday.

    Detroit police and firefighters are among some 10,700 city workers, represented by 48 unions, who face deep pay cuts and healthcare benefit changes imposed by Mayor Dave Bing without negotiations.

    Bing is trying to save the city $102 million. A city financial advisory board approved Bing's 10 percent pay cut proposals last week.


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/16/us-usa-detroit-police-idUSBRE86F0ZN201- 20716

    I took a bigger cut than that as a Teamster. You don't like it. But I wanted to keep working.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Are you saying that Detroit is a safe place to wander around at night?

    Nope - didn't say that. I don't think I'd feel safe in any major city in the middle of the night.

    What I was saying is that your pointing out that only 7% of Detroit is white and that makes it unsafe is basically saying if you are white and enter the city, you're gonna killed.

    FYI - 16 million people a year visit the city of Detroit for conventions, work and yes even just to visit. The vast majority of the crime is probably resident on resident is just like any other major city.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,514
    "One day they will realize it was not Bush that caused their misery. "

    Nor is it Barry. He and Dubya are far more alike than different. The sore loser politicizing of everything should be curtailed a bit. Nobody was going to be "saved" in the last heavily controlled election. The problem is about the entire corporate and political system, not mere empty suits.

    Regarding Detroit, I wouldn't have any qualms about visiting, and it is kind of on my bucket list. But I generally know how to stay safe, and the main attraction would be to view the decay.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The vast majority of the crime is probably resident on resident is just like any other major city.

    I am sure you are correct. Those 16 million visitors probably spend several $billion while they are there. So why is Detroit going bankrupt? Do you think it is the Union mentality that prevents them from hiring the unemployed to clean up the city? They could do a WPA type program. You don't have to pay everyone $30 per hour with another $30 in benefits. That will bankrupt a business as well as a city. They could start rounding up the gang bangers and giving them a choice. A month cleaning up the city or jail time. Detroit could be an example that you don't have to let public employee unions destroy your city.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    North Philadelphia, a mostly black neighborhood for generations, was a much nicer place in 1962 than it is now, but it is improving from the last few dismal decades as gentrification is coming to some areas. A riot began in 1964 on Columbia Avenue, (Now Cecil B. Moore Avenue) when a rumor that a cop shot a pregnant black woman. This riot was the beginning of a precipitous downfall for the neighborhood. Many businesses were destroyed in this riot never to return. Whites fled North Philly en masse to places like NE Philly or the suburbs.

    This is sad because people used to really take pride in the neighborhood. Women would even wash the front stoops of their buildings and sweep the sidewalks and pick up what ever little trash was there. As it is now, it is mostly a graffiti-scarred, trash-strewn, violent wasteland.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    So why is Detroit going bankrupt?

    Because it was too dependent on one industry and when that industry dried up, the city took a huge hit. Jobs disappeared, housing crashed, people walked away. It happened in the mid 80's in Houston when oil collapsed. It happened in Boston in the early 90's when high tech collapsed. It happened in Pittsburgh when steel collapsed in the late 80's. It happens in areas all over America when a military base closes down. Heck the military provides 1 in 4 civilian jobs in San Diego county - what would happen if they closed the bases in that area? Probably not as bad as the closing of Loring AFB in northern Maine, but it would still hurt.

    When industries and people leave, tax receipts go down. City can't afford to provide local services so cuts are made. More people leave due to lack of services. It's a continuing circle until the bottom is reached.

    Today many cities/regions have learned to diversify it's industrial base so it's not so dependent on one single industry. Here in Boston, it's still a high tech area but biotech, finance and investment, health care are now major players.

    They could do a WPA type program.

    Would you approve of such a federally funded program to help rebuild Detroit? Or is that type of trickle up economics the type of thing Republican in Washington would say no to?

    They could start rounding up the gang bangers and giving them a choice.

    Personally, I'd like to see those who want to work get the opportunity to work in a WPA like program to rebuild the city they live in - let the gang bangers rot in jail. They could start a renaissance in their neighborhoods to drive out the criminal element as more and more people want to live there and take pride in what they do. But without long term jobs to go to after working in a WPA program, it's destined to fail.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    Regarding Detroit, I wouldn't have any qualms about visiting, and it is kind of on my bucket list. But I generally know how to stay safe, and the main attraction would be to view the decay

    Considering I lived 250mi from Detroit growing up, it's kind of a shame I've never been there. I'm only about 400mi away now.

    My BIL is a Corvette enthusiast, so we're thinking of going to the Detroit auto show for the unveiling. I also want to visit the Henry Ford museum. I've been wanting to go for years. Just haven't got around to making it happen.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2012
    Heck the military provides 1 in 4 civilian jobs in San Diego county - what would happen if they closed the bases in that area?

    That is the reason our Congressman Duncan Hunter fights to keep the defense budget intact. It would make our current 12% unemployment a lot worse. Though the Navy is less likely to take big hits as the Army and maybe the Air Force.

    Would you approve of such a federally funded program to help rebuild Detroit?

    No, I think the state and city should initiate such a program. It is a New Deal type program. I don't think the Feds are the best way to solve such problems. Too many layers of BS when they get involved.

    let the gang bangers rot in jail.

    I think most Gang Bangers would welcome the chance to break loose and become a positive rather than negative element in society.

    But without long term jobs to go to after working in a WPA program, it's destined to fail.

    I see for Detroit the opportunity to clean up their act and welcome new industry. I think the state or at least Detroit will have to implement RTW or the Unions will block any progress. I find Public employee unions as greedy as Wall Street bankers. Just not as fine tuned at extorting money. Greed and entitlement are destructive at any level of society.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    At least they drive domestic Iron. :P

    Robbers With AK-47s Hit Two Detroit Gas Stations

    Police are now looking for a white color Chevy Impala that may have been the robbers’ get-away car.

    Police say those men robbed at least 11 gas stations in a two-week period. Then, just hours after police put out a public notice about the robberies, the group struck again — this time robbing six different gas stations in one hour. In every instance, police say the suspects will cover their faces, walk into a gas station armed with assault weapons and announce a hold-up.


    http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/12/05/robbers-with-ak-47s-hit-two-detroit-gas-s- tations/
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    That is the reason our Congressman Duncan Hunter fights to keep the defense budget intact.

    But that's because it benefits his district directly. Dems fight for the same thing and get vilified by the Repubs. I remember meeting someone on a business trip. Within 1 minute of answering his query of where I was from, he started in with "why do you people keep electing Kennedy?" Simple - because he supports jobs and industry in Massachusetts.

    No, I think the state and city should initiate such a program.

    And how would they fund it? They can't pay for police officers, how are they going to pay for a WPA program? The Feds unfortunately are the only ones with the ability to fund it.

    I think most Gang Bangers would welcome the chance to break loose and become a positive rather than negative element in society.

    I'll respectfully disagree. IMHO a tiny minority might look for a way out. Same way as organized crime - you're never out.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    And how would they fund it? They can't pay for police officers, how are they going to pay for a WPA program?

    The state has offered money. They just have to get their Unions under control. WPA was not a high cost program. The workers were young men out of work. They lived in tents got food and a very small amount of money to send home. They were not paid anywhere close to our current minimum wage. Harsh times require harsh solutions. Detroit is in dire straits.

    I'll respectfully disagree. IMHO a tiny minority might look for a way out. Same way as organized crime - you're never out.

    If that is the case, hard labor would be the best way to handle them. Chain gangs need to be reinstated. Cushy prisons are not doing the job very well. Send them to Sheriff Joe for an attitude adjustment.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    And how would they fund it? They can't pay for police officers, how are they going to pay for a WPA program? The Feds unfortunately are the only ones with the ability to fund it.

    This is what I find crazy. The idea of the "United States" was that states were self-governing and the Feds did the gluing of everything together. Why can't Michigan fund this? They can raise their own taxes, as it's their own policies that have gotten them into this mess. Or are you saying that Michigan can't afford it and its up to the richer parts of the US to bail them out?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Why can't Michigan fund this?

    Now that I think about it, they probably could pay for it themselves but it will take a long time.

    The idea of the "United States" was that states were self-governing and the Feds did the gluing of everything together.

    Thank you for that. Now tell Congress to get out of my bedroom.
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