i>Acura clearly goofed up on making a larger size car. The 04-08 was perfect size per my perspective and was actually downsized from previous gen 99-03 gen TL.
Thats not true, I had the 03 type S and had the 04 for loaners on several occasions. The 04 through 08 might look small on the outside but it actaully is a much more spacious than my 03.Fact is the 04-08 is a heavy car.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
The '04 - '08 was a smaller car than the previous generation's car. The fact that it was actually more spacious on the inside just highlights the "flaw' of the '09 which gained significant exterior bulk but not a proportionate increase in interrior space.
ok- you might be right, I did not check exact measurements. However, I see no flaw with the 09, Its going to work out perfectly for those long summer trips. In regards to bulk, look at BMW's 7 series and Audi's A8- I dont see anyone complaining there.
Thats not true, I had the 03 type S and had the 04 for loaners on several occasions. The 04 through 08 might look small on the outside but it actaully is a much more spacious than my 03.Fact is the 04-08 is a heavy car.
Beside having an 04 and 07 currently, we previously had an 01 TL. The 01 had a longer length than the 04-08. The 04-08 has more interior room than the 99-03. The 04-08 handles much better than the previous gen.
Bodble2 wrote: The gain in interior passenger and cargo space is not proportionate with increased exterior bulk.
Traindriver replied:
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that the additional bulk is in the front/rear overhang or "fender bulge"....a bigger "footprint"? If not in the passenger compartment or trunk space, then how is it that a car gains "bulk?"
Instead of "bulk", I think the proper word might be "size". If a car becomes six inches longer and almost two inches wider and gains only a little over an inch of rear legroom and less than a cubic foot of trunk space, I agree that they are not proportional to the overall increase in size. The only reason I can think of for making the car so much larger is that Acura wants the TL to be more imposing looking and increasing its overall size can do just that. When an automobile becomes almost as large as a BMW 750i, I agree that as far as size alone is concerned, it can look quite impressive.
The high end BMW's and Audi's have massive V8 and V12 powertrains. Those cars are designed to be premium in every way. The new TL is just ungainly in the way it's portioned. The TL is only available with V6 powertrains.
Comparing the TL to a "flagship" sedan is unfair in every way. They are designed to appeal to two completely different segments of the market.
I'm a past owner of an 04 TL, wife and I lover it. Next was an 06 RL, loved it also. Especially the AWD. Now I'm looking at the 09s. Great riding car but because od the price, I'm gonna go back to an 08 TL. Better pricing is the only reason. After being thru several dealers I learn that the next RL ('10) is going to be priced in the mid 60s on up. the TL is going to fill the RLs spot in the model line up. The TSX is going to get a V6 next year. It's almost the size of the 04-08 TLs now. That'll take the TLs spot with probably something smaller in size being introduced. Anybody else?
The main reason the '09 TL was made bigger was to accomodate the SH-AWD system. The increase in exterior size did very little to increase interior passenger volume or trunk space. Here are figures for an '06 TL and '09 TL:
'06 vs. '09: Front shoulder room: 58.3"/58.2" Rear Shoulder room: 55.7"/56.2" Front Headroom: 38.7"/38.4" Rear Headroom: 37.2"/36.7" Front Leg Room: 42.8"/42.5" Rear Leg Room: 34.9"/36.2" Front Hiproom: 55.6"/55.7" Rear Hiproom: 53.8"/54.8" Passenger Volume: 97.9 cu ft/98.2 cu ft Trunk: 12.5 cu ft./13.1 but for SH-AWD it is 12.5 cu ft
'06 vs. '09 size differences in exterior: Length: 189.3"/195.3" Wheelbase: 107.9"/109.3" Height: 56.7"/57.2" Width: 72.2"/74"
As you can see, the TL grew considerably more in exterior size and only grew in rear seat legroom. In some cases it is worse than the 3G TL.
No thanks Acura. You made a bloated whale and did not achieve interior increases in size. Granted we get SH-AWD so it makes no sense to buy the regular TL to get a bigger body and not get the SH-AWD with it since that is why the bigger body exists. Hello 2009 A4 quattro 2.0T!
The automaker isn't doing the milquetoast design thing any more. The face of the redesigned, fourth-generation 2009 Acura TL four-door, sporting an inverted wedge of chrome in its mouth that stands out like a silver front tooth, won't slip down boulevards unseen. Nor will motorists driving behind miss the wide "V" of chrome where trunklid meets bodywork. You'll notice this new "emotion advanced" TL, all right ___________________________________ [url=http://www.digitaltransitions.com]medium format digital[/url] [url=http://www.raleighdentist.com]general dentistry raleigh[/url]
After being thru several dealers I learn that the next RL ('10) is going to be priced in the mid 60s on up.
Given the current and projected economic conditions, Acura is either going to have to seriously rethink that pricing, or dramatically upgrade the RL far beyond what even I have suggested in the past. I had criticized Acura's (non)flagship for being ho-hum on performance and marginally better than the TL on luxury. I had thought that, since Lexus had really targeted Mercedes with its LS, Acura could target the BMW 550i with a revamped V8 RL, ideally with a RWD sport model that could be had with a 6 speed manual. Priced at $55k, it would be a solid competitor.
But now BMW has the 535i, available in RWD or AWD, automatic or 6-speed, standard or sport models. And priced in the $55k range, with performance that is within a knat's [non-permissible content removed] of the $65k V8 550i. Not to mention, more fuel efficient.
I think Acura is smoking dope if they think there is much of a market for a $65k+ RL over the next 3-4 years. They have never achieved anything over dismal sales at invoice or lower pricing on a $40's something RL. And now, with the ecomomy in the tank, and BMW filling it's own gap with the 535i, Acura is contemplating putting out an RL priced near the previous generation M5? Good friggin luck. :confuse:
I was not comparing the TL to those cars, I was simply saying that some people here are jumping on the '"Too Big" band wagon.The new Genesis is a big bloated car but nobody seems to notice the extra lard. I cant wait to post the pictures of my new white diamond pearl with the 19" FCS wheels and fully zained downed.
Bottom line, I like what I see so far with the FWD version, actually when I took the car for a test drive two motorist gave me a thumbs up while passing.
At least the TL is original and not some knock off counterfeit. Also, I think at my age I should be able to tell the difference between a thumb and a middle finger.
'At least the TL is original and not some knock off counterfeit.'
Oh, you mean like the Aztec. I see your point then. By the way, before you give the TL too much credit for originality, there is a lot of Camry and ES350 in the profile, and some Maxima in the hood treatment. As for the grill, yeah, I guess I could be original and wear my underwear on the outside! Wait, Superman's done that already. Damn!
"....at my age I should be able to tell the difference between a thumb and a middle finger.'
Well, yeah, exactly. I was concern that, at your age, your eyesight ain't what it used to be. People flip you the bird, and you reply with a thumbs-up! :P Could be embarrassing.
"Well, yeah, exactly. I was concern that, at your age, your eyesight ain't what it used to be. People flip you the bird, and you reply with a thumbs-up! Could be embarrassing "
The main reason the '09 TL was made bigger was to accomodate the SH-AWD system. The increase in exterior size did very little to increase interior passenger volume or trunk space.
I think it's safe to assume that a large percentage of people who purchase '09 TL's will go for the FWD model because they don't need the features provided by the more expensive AWD model. That would mean that the majority of TL owners will end up with an automobile designed for a minority of buyers. They will have a car that has grown considerably larger and get very little or no benefit from that increase in overall size. Such a concept may seem to make sense to Acura but it makes no sense at all to me.
Actually, if Acura had to super-size the car to accommodate the AWD system, then there's something wrong. BMW and Audi, just 2 examples, managed to fit very sophisticated and capable AWD systems in their compact-size models.
Bigger does not necessarily equate with worse agility or performance! With the AWD version, the bigger TL can be both agile (around corners) and comfortable (in the cabin). However, as some have pointed out, only the back seats are bigger, despite the much larger exterior dimensions, which says quite a bit about Acura's flawed design. I like the 3G design and dimensions, but I do not mind the larger 4G, so long as it remains agile with the AWD. Did someone mention that the 4G has a smaller turn circle?
'Bigger does not necessarily equate with worse agility or performance..."
I didn't imply that. I just found it perplexing that Acura had to increase the size of the car just to implement an AWD system, if that is indeed the reason for the increase in exterior dimensions.
Going back several messages, there was a discussion about the relative size of the '99-'03 generation TL compared to the next one, and the point was made in a few messages that the '04-'08 was smaller than the precious generation. Well, yes and no; while the ''04-'08s are indeed shorter, they're also wider than the '99-'03s. The '09 is bigger (longer, wider and heavier) than both previous generations. For this reason, I'd choose a '09 3-Series or A4 to replace our '99 TL.
No matter what you say about this new TL, it's way better than the FWD, torque steering, rattling sunroof, bad speakers, cheap leather, horrible turning radius car that you have.
I don't think it's really necessary to insult someone else's choice of vehicle - you can say say you prefer the TL without the insults, please.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Last month, I was folllowing a discussion between Avalon/Camry/ES350 and when one person was repeatedly (in a good way) posting that they are different cars and cannot be compared, the host asked him to leave the discussion (in a rude way). They deleted his post and he said that he is not going to return to this forum. Kirstie is being nice to you, so please have some sanity to the discussion.
Bigger does not necessarily equate with worse agility or performance! With the AWD version, the bigger TL can be both agile (around corners) and comfortable (in the cabin).
I believe that an automobile's size alone has nothing to do with agility or performance but it has a great deal to do with convenience. By convenience I mean the overcoming of problems related to moving it around in everyday use. One such problem is parking a longer automobile in a parallel parking space. It also refers to problems involved driving a wider car while heading into a parking slot. Not only is it more difficult to pull into such a space cleanly, but it also means that while parked, wider cars are better targets for being dinged by the opening of doors on cars next to it.
Although acceleration, braking, steering agility, and gas milage (among other things) can be extremely important, they aren't everything. I believe that convenience is equally important. The dictionary describes it as "the state of being able to proceed with something with little effort or difficulty". If an automobile becomes large enough where it no longer becomes easy for me to drive, it detracts from all the other good things it has to offer. The '09 FWD TL has become six inches longer and two inches wider while giving me virtually nothing in return.
I was considering the '09TL at one time. It's supposedly a wonderful car technically, but its styling decreased my interest greatly. Its added size completely killed off any interest I had left.
The reason the new TL is bigger is very simple. It's because of the Accord. They're built on the same platform. They always have been. The accord got bigger because that is the trend. It's all about competition and trend.The Camry, Mazda 6, Taurus, Sonata etc. have all gotten bigger too. I might add that the new Accord has been praised for very crisp and precise handling despite its size.
bodble2, What is your problem. Every one of your posts cuts down either the 09 TL or those that happen to have a positive opinion of it. We get it already, you don't like the 09. So, move on and go find another car. Why is it so important for you to try to convince everyone else to dislike the car just because you do. Don't you have anything better to do. I am tired of having to sift through all of your silly posts.
Now, if anyone out there has test driven the car, I'd like to hear your impressions.
The Acura TL. I don't know who is more embarassed? The one who approved the design or the schelp that has to be seen in one. Acura should call it quits. Now I know why sales of Acura's are down more than any other near luxury brand. I don't know what will tick off owners more; Getting weird looks from people when you drive it, or dealing with a Honda transmission that will only go 30k miles without a rebuild.
Your negative comments about Acura, and the 09 TL in particular, are WAY too harsh. In fact, I believe your comments are totally biased and unwarranted, even though you may be entitled to express them in a forum such as this.
If you think a Honda/Acura transmission needs to be replaced every 30k miles, you have not driven or owned a Honda/Acura. May be you are a salesman for a competitor and you feel compelled to denigrate Acura in this forum. Good luck to you ... whatever you do for a living.
Had a brief drive last month, overall an upgrade over 08TL. Exterior is better in person than pictures definitely, how much better is another story. Is it great? No. Will it grow on us? Maybe. Size is most noticeable in rear room, trunk design/space is a disappointment...maybe for safety reasons? Turn radius is still big, but handles smaller than size. Acceleration feels solid but not blazing (mid-6s is my guess 0-60). Interior is very nice, the Navi/stereo/dashboard are all thumbs up. Not sure about the seats, will have to go back again. Much better road/wind isolation, the 17" wheels didn't look too small in person.
Latest issue of Autoweek Magazine tests the 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT. This was done on test track and compared to other cars in its class. Testers had very positive comments.
Not unlike you, I believe the 4G TL is a bit big, and I actually prefer 3G's size and styling more. However, it appears that all cars are getting bigger these days, perhaps in response to bigger americans preferences and appetites. Bigger, however, will not detract me from considering the 4G if I am in the market. It is more luxurious, high tech, and above all, has AWD that is good for snow and carvy mountain roads. If they put out a hybrid version, that may be even better because I also like environmentally friendly cars, not to mention friendliness with my wallet
Ocim Thanks for your driving impression. Just curious, what do you currently drive now? I do have an 04 TL and am trying to get to the dealer and drive the 09 as well. Is the turn radius really going to be that noticeable with everyday driving?
I have said it before, the 09 does look better in person. Even my wife likes it. But she always said the 04 TL looked like any other car that Honda makes. By no means is she putting Honda products down, that's all we have driven for years. Think she is just happy to see something that a little more striking to the eye.
If you think a Honda/Acura transmission needs to be replaced every 30k miles, you have not driven or owned a Honda/Acura. Honda had real problem with transmission in 2001-2003. 2009 TL looks ugly and too big. I think sales of TL will drop a lot. My girlfriend saw it on the road and think that it is new Saturn model.
What do you all think of the huge visor on the dashboard that houses the Navi screen on the 09 TL? Unlike the previous generation TL it doesn't seem to flow with the dash... It kind of sticks out like an after thought... :confuse:
I liked the placement of the Nav screen on the 09..The entire interior is very well layed out....it's still butt ugly on the outside though...IMHO of course.
The big 'visor' is supposed to provide a shield for the navi and blocks sunlight from striking the navi screen making it hard to read on sunny days. I like the navi in the 3G, which is closer to the driver (but the glare on sunny days is problematic) and the touch screen functionality.
Although I am interested in the TL, its size is a bit of a turn-off for me. I hope that Acura will release a TSX Type-S to rectify the major problem with the TSX, namely a lack of power. I would be excited about a TSX with something in the range of 250 hp and SH-AWD.
Rumours have it that a V6 TSX is coming. A diesel TSX would also likely give the TSX significant low-end torque.
PS: You can't complain too much about the TL's size, or speak negatively about it, on this thread. If you do, then you may face the wrath of some members (albeit only a few) who will accuse you of not offering any useful information. I made the mistake myself of not realizing that some view this thread as a shrine to the new TL. :confuse: :surprise: :P
Comments
Thats not true, I had the 03 type S and had the 04 for loaners on several occasions.
The 04 through 08 might look small on the outside but it actaully is a much more spacious than my 03.Fact is the 04-08 is a heavy car.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
However, I see no flaw with the 09, Its going to work out perfectly for those long summer trips.
In regards to bulk, look at BMW's 7 series and Audi's A8- I dont see anyone complaining there.
The 04 through 08 might look small on the outside but it actaully is a much more spacious than my 03.Fact is the 04-08 is a heavy car.
Beside having an 04 and 07 currently, we previously had an 01 TL. The 01 had a longer length than the 04-08. The 04-08 has more interior room than the 99-03. The 04-08 handles much better than the previous gen.
The gain in interior passenger and cargo space is not proportionate with increased exterior bulk.
Traindriver replied:
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that the additional bulk is in the front/rear overhang or "fender bulge"....a bigger "footprint"? If not in the passenger compartment or trunk space, then how is it that a car gains "bulk?"
Instead of "bulk", I think the proper word might be "size". If a car becomes six inches longer and almost two inches wider and gains only a little over an inch of rear legroom and less than a cubic foot of trunk space, I agree that they are not proportional to the overall increase in size. The only reason I can think of for making the car so much larger is that Acura wants the TL to be more imposing looking and increasing its overall size can do just that. When an automobile becomes almost as large as a BMW 750i, I agree that as far as size alone is concerned, it can look quite impressive.
Comparing the TL to a "flagship" sedan is unfair in every way. They are designed to appeal to two completely different segments of the market.
'06 vs. '09:
Front shoulder room: 58.3"/58.2"
Rear Shoulder room: 55.7"/56.2"
Front Headroom: 38.7"/38.4"
Rear Headroom: 37.2"/36.7"
Front Leg Room: 42.8"/42.5"
Rear Leg Room: 34.9"/36.2"
Front Hiproom: 55.6"/55.7"
Rear Hiproom: 53.8"/54.8"
Passenger Volume: 97.9 cu ft/98.2 cu ft
Trunk: 12.5 cu ft./13.1 but for SH-AWD it is 12.5 cu ft
'06 vs. '09 size differences in exterior:
Length: 189.3"/195.3"
Wheelbase: 107.9"/109.3"
Height: 56.7"/57.2"
Width: 72.2"/74"
As you can see, the TL grew considerably more in exterior size and only grew in rear seat legroom. In some cases it is worse than the 3G TL.
No thanks Acura. You made a bloated whale and did not achieve interior increases in size. Granted we get SH-AWD so it makes no sense to buy the regular TL to get a bigger body and not get the SH-AWD with it since that is why the bigger body exists. Hello 2009 A4 quattro 2.0T!
OK, that sounds just a little too kinky and personal! :P
Whatever goes on behind closed doors......
___________________________________
[url=http://www.digitaltransitions.com]medium format digital[/url] [url=http://www.raleighdentist.com]general dentistry raleigh[/url]
Given the current and projected economic conditions, Acura is either going to have to seriously rethink that pricing, or dramatically upgrade the RL far beyond what even I have suggested in the past. I had criticized Acura's (non)flagship for being ho-hum on performance and marginally better than the TL on luxury. I had thought that, since Lexus had really targeted Mercedes with its LS, Acura could target the BMW 550i with a revamped V8 RL, ideally with a RWD sport model that could be had with a 6 speed manual. Priced at $55k, it would be a solid competitor.
But now BMW has the 535i, available in RWD or AWD, automatic or 6-speed, standard or sport models. And priced in the $55k range, with performance that is within a knat's [non-permissible content removed] of the $65k V8 550i. Not to mention, more fuel efficient.
I think Acura is smoking dope if they think there is much of a market for a $65k+ RL over the next 3-4 years. They have never achieved anything over dismal sales at invoice or lower pricing on a $40's something RL. And now, with the ecomomy in the tank, and BMW filling it's own gap with the 535i, Acura is contemplating putting out an RL priced near the previous generation M5? Good friggin luck. :confuse:
I cant wait to post the pictures of my new white diamond pearl with the 19" FCS wheels and fully zained downed.
Bottom line, I like what I see so far with the FWD version, actually when I took the car for a test drive two motorist gave me a thumbs up while passing.
First, the Genesis is Hyundai's flagship. Secondly, the Genesis looks good. Good styling tends to go a long way towards public acceptance.
"... two motorist gave me a thumbs up while passing."
You sure it wasn't some other digit rather than their thumbs? :P
I don't know habitat, after reading some of your fiery posts, that may be too tall of an order. :P
Also, I think at my age I should be able to tell the difference between a thumb and a middle finger.
Oh, you mean like the Aztec. I see your point then. By the way, before you give the TL too much credit for originality, there is a lot of Camry and ES350 in the profile, and some Maxima in the hood treatment. As for the grill, yeah, I guess I could be original and wear my underwear on the outside! Wait, Superman's done that already. Damn!
Well, yeah, exactly. I was concern that, at your age, your eyesight ain't what it used to be.
bodble - You are really funny!
I think it's safe to assume that a large percentage of people who purchase '09 TL's will go for the FWD model because they don't need the features provided by the more expensive AWD model. That would mean that the majority of TL owners will end up with an automobile designed for a minority of buyers. They will have a car that has grown considerably larger and get very little or no benefit from that increase in overall size. Such a concept may seem to make sense to Acura but it makes no sense at all to me.
I didn't imply that. I just found it perplexing that Acura had to increase the size of the car just to implement an AWD system, if that is indeed the reason for the increase in exterior dimensions.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I believe that an automobile's size alone has nothing to do with agility or performance but it has a great deal to do with convenience. By convenience I mean the overcoming of problems related to moving it around in everyday use. One such problem is parking a longer automobile in a parallel parking space. It also refers to problems involved driving a wider car while heading into a parking slot. Not only is it more difficult to pull into such a space cleanly, but it also means that while parked, wider cars are better targets for being dinged by the opening of doors on cars next to it.
Although acceleration, braking, steering agility, and gas milage (among other things) can be extremely important, they aren't everything. I believe that convenience is equally important. The dictionary describes it as "the state of being able to proceed with something with little effort or difficulty". If an automobile becomes large enough where it no longer becomes easy for me to drive, it detracts from all the other good things it has to offer. The '09 FWD TL has become six inches longer and two inches wider while giving me virtually nothing in return.
I was considering the '09TL at one time. It's supposedly a wonderful car technically, but its styling decreased my interest greatly. Its added size completely killed off any interest I had left.
Maybe you've got it mixed up with the previous generation TL? They do say memory is the 2nd thing to go for ex-military guys, right after eyesight!
Now, if anyone out there has test driven the car, I'd like to hear your impressions.
If you think a Honda/Acura transmission needs to be replaced every 30k miles, you have not driven or owned a Honda/Acura. May be you are a salesman for a competitor and you feel compelled to denigrate Acura in this forum. Good luck to you ... whatever you do for a living.
Had a brief drive last month, overall an upgrade over 08TL. Exterior is better in person than pictures definitely, how much better is another story. Is it great? No. Will it grow on us? Maybe. Size is most noticeable in rear room, trunk design/space is a disappointment...maybe for safety reasons? Turn radius is still big, but handles smaller than size. Acceleration feels solid but not blazing (mid-6s is my guess 0-60). Interior is very nice, the Navi/stereo/dashboard are all thumbs up. Not sure about the seats, will have to go back again. Much better road/wind isolation, the 17" wheels didn't look too small in person.
Thanks for your driving impression. Just curious, what do you currently drive now? I do have an 04 TL and am trying to get to the dealer and drive the 09 as well. Is the turn radius really going to be that noticeable with everyday driving?
I have said it before, the 09 does look better in person. Even my wife likes it. But she always said the 04 TL looked like any other car that Honda makes. By no means is she putting Honda products down, that's all we have driven for years. Think she is just happy to see something that a little more striking to the eye.
Honda had real problem with transmission in 2001-2003. 2009 TL looks ugly and too big. I think sales of TL will drop a lot. My girlfriend saw it on the road and think that it is new Saturn model.
PS: You can't complain too much about the TL's size, or speak negatively about it, on this thread. If you do, then you may face the wrath of some members (albeit only a few) who will accuse you of not offering any useful information.