Acura TL 2009

dvsutton

"I have not driven or owned a Honda/Acura eh? Every month I send a check to my finance company for my wifes Honda Odyssey. I bought it new. In the first two years it had two transmission rebuilds. One at 8k miles, and another at 18k miles. That along with the dash rattles, sliding door falling off its track, DVD player skipping over the slightest bump in the road, rotors being replaced due to warping, and overall terrible dealer service, I think I can comment on Honda/Acura products. You see, when I'm sitting in the Honda/Acura service purgatory (waiting room), I talk to other displeased customers. More than not, we all agree on one thing; Honda and Acura's are way over rated, and we will never buy another again. I wish I worked for a competitor. I would know exactly where to find unhappy customers. I could sit outside the Honda dealership service bay and sign people up for trade ins on the spot. I would be rich.

lax29

The interior if the new TL is one place that Acura did not skimp on. Top notch interior. Hopefully the new upgraded leather seats will hold up better then the 3G seats.

hpmctorque

To my eyes, the '09 TL's exterior looks more like an evolution of the '99-'03 generation than an evolution of the '04-'08s. However, I don't think the '09 is better looking than the '99-'03s. Busier and different, yes; better looking, not necessarily. In fact, both the '99-'03s and the '04-'08s may withstand the test of time - that is, age better - than the '09-??, but it'll take a long time to find out.

It's not uncommon, among classic car buffs, to value older model generations more than newer ones (eg. the 55-'58 Chevys versus, say, the '65-'68s, or the '55-'57 T-birds versus the '65-'67s).

Maybe the '09 Tl will grow on me, but it doesn't light my fire right now. I prefer either of the two previous generations, just as I prefer the styling of the the early - mid '90s Maximas to the newer ones. Styling is a personal matter, of course, but does anyone out there agree with me?

bodble2

Well, for sure I prefer the exterior styling of the '04-'08 TL to the new one. (But we're not supposed to say it's ugly around these parts, at least not out loud!) As for the Maxima, I had a mid-90's model, which, IMO, only looked good is SE guise. The following generation's Max ('99 - '02) looked best, IMO. Then the Max went downhill styling-wise, much like what the TL is now doing.

jpdisarro

Obviously everyone has a different experience, and I don't think yours is typical. Between my parents and brother, my family has owned four TLs over the past ten years and never had a serious problem. My family did own a Nissan Quest minivan back in the 90s, however, and had serious problems with the electrical system.

laurasdada

While this new gen TL's styling may grow on me, the 3G did not have to. Upon first glance of the TL, I was smitten, style-wise. A clean, handsome design to this day. Still one of the best looking four doors extant.

I'm not sure that style really "grows" on me, rather familiarity might breed more acceptance. The 1G Caddy CTS struck me as nearly Aztek-like in its unattractiveness. Over the years, I don't think my opinion changed too much, rather I just saw more of them and began to ignore 'em so as not to offend my sense of aesthetic... While less unattractive than the CTS, same with the BMW 7 and 5 series...

The '09 TL, still haven't tasted one in person. But, the beak is still just plain wrong. It may be bold, it may be different, but to me, it is just ungainly.

Still diggin' my troublefree and ruggedly handsome '05 TL, transmission and all!

bodble2

I've always been of the opinion that if a style has to "grow on you", then there is something basically wrong with the design. Similarly, if a car only looks good in a certain guise, in certain colours, or with certain add-ons, or appearance packages, then the basic design is not very good. Just like a genuinely good-looking woman will look good with, or without makeup!

hpmctorque

"... rather familiarity might breed more acceptance."

That's an interesting way of expressing what may happen to many of us. I never really thought if it that way, but I think that happens to me with certain Camrys.

bodble2

I thought familiarity breeds contempt! Or does that only apply between spouses? :P

jpdisarro

The car would benefit if the large chrome piece on the front shrunk substantially. Even with the some of the quibbles with the styling, the TL will likely still be on my list when I am shopping for my next car due to the dearth of reasonably priced, desirable AWD cars.

vaughn4

From reading all of these posts I think Acura may have a real issue with the polarizing styling of the 09 TL. I've also looked at a plethora of other sites and the consumer opinions on the styling of the new TL is down right pretty amazing - In a negative sense that is.

I have yet to see a real live 09 TL on the road so I don't think people are smitten with this new version IMHO. I travel throughout Florida from Miami to Jax, Orlando and Tampa so I would have expected to see at least one by now.

Acura better hope it at least turns out to be bullet proof with respect to reliability or they will definitely have a dud on their hands. Too many first year model problems coupled with the controversial styling will be the ultimate kiss of death.

Is Acura/Honda losing its appeal? I fear more and more signs are pointing to that possibility. I also note that a fully loaded 09 TL is closely approaching the entry level luxury of the BMW, Audi, and Mercedes types.

bodble2

Well, when we dropped by our dealer a couple of weekends ago to have a look-see, there were about 5 or 6 '09 TL's sitting on the lot, but no one was looking other than us. In fact, there was very little showroom traffic overall. You would think a brand new model would garner significant interest, even if it is just mostly out of curiosity. I figure 3 possible factors at play --- the gloomy economic outlook, the Acura/Honda brand losing its appeal, as you said, and a lot of people striking the TL off of their lists, just based on styling and/or size.

gundersen

To dysutton. Your experience is absolutely, positively not typical. The only car company that has less problems as a whole than Honda/Acura is Toyota/Lexus. check it out.

go_mdx1

With today's economy, dealer foot traffic is a very poor barometer of how well a car has been made or designed. Two months ago, Honda Civic's were flying out of the dealer showrooms. Now, at the local dealer, there is over 50 Civics in stock (including a bunch of hybrids). Honda dealer is nearly empty on Saturday's.

So, I vote for factor #1 "gloomy economic outlook" as the main reason this car is not selling well.

BTW: I own an 09 Maxima and have yet to see another 09 Maxima on the road in the two months since I purchased the car.

kennyg8

I agree. The poor foot traffic is most likely due to gloomy economic outlook, and Acura showrooms are no different than showrooms of other (comparable) brands.

Surprisingly, there is no comparison of the 09 Acura v Maxima in Edmunds. With the more upscaled Maxima, it is moving closer to the TL, except that you can get a comparably equipped Maxima for a grand or two less. The SH-AWD TL costs $42k, which I think will cost Acura to lose a substantial number of potential customers, unless significant discounts are given.

kennyg8

Sorry to hear about your wife's Honda Odyssey. Like many posters have pointed out, however, your problems are atypical, as Honda and Acura (particularly Acura) do have a reputation of making cars that are rather reliable, especially when compared with other brands. Even Lexus, the perennial favorite of Consumer Reports, produces a few lemons. Yours might be a lemon ... sorry :lemon:

kennyg8

Your statement about Toyota/Lexus having less problems than Honda/Acura is generally true. However, based on this article that summarizes findings of Consumer Report, Honda/Acura and Subaru appeared to do even better than Toyota/Lexus, at least for now or in 2007. http://www.autospies.com/news/Consumer-Report-Removes-Toyota-and-Lexus-Models-Fr- om-Coveted-Recommend-List-21817/

fornov

My personal experience with the TL is hot and cold. I have had my '06 TL for almost 3 years now, and it has had zero mechanical problems through 50K miles. I have had the routine maintenance performed, put new tires on at 40K, and paid for gas. That's it. There are significant positives - looks nice, great highway mileage (usually 30-32 MPG), very comfortable, good size for me (6'2 185, with a wife and 2 little girls).

However, there are significant negatives, too, which I hope the '09 TL will address.
1. bad understeer and plowing into corners
2. torque steer
3. wheel spin with even moderate acceleration from a stop
4. squealing wheels any time a corner is driven anything but lightly
5. about the slowest car in its class

Most of these problems will hopefully be addressed by the stronger engine and SH-AWD system. I don't race my car, but sometimes I like to hit the back roads a little harder when I'm driving by myself. If the '09 TL can fix these problems and retain the parts of the previous generation that I like (mileage, comfort), I may have a good choice here. I also really like all the tech stuff Acura has added to the mix. Although it's not my favorite, I don't mind the styling, and it would be kind of cool to have a car no one else has and most people haven't even seen yet. The increased size is fine with me as long as the handling characteristics aren't lost. The interior is first-rate, truly outstanding.

I'm also strongly considering the new G37x sedan (when it arrives) - this is probably the frontrunner right now. I'd love to get an IS-F or CTS-V, but I need the AWD (or at least FWD). The IS250 has a joke for a powertrain, and the CTS AWD isn't what I'm looking for. Plus, do they all have a wood-accented steering wheel? I thought I'd like the Maxima, but it seems like the sucker's version of the G sedan. I drove an MKS - maybe when I'm 50. The 335xi is a real winner, except I can't stand the plain jane interior. It seems a little arrogant to ignore interior asthetics and ergonomics, plus it seems everyone and their mother-in-law has a BMW these days. What else is there? Mercedes doesn't have anything I'd like - maybe if they put an AWD setup in their AMG's. I haven't looked at Saab or Volvo much, but I'm skeptical about their lineups. The XF is cool, but also only RWD. What about Audi S4 - it's not bad, but isn't there a new model for '10? And with a smaller engine now? How about the 300C AWD - I haven't researched that much. GS350 AWD - again with the wood steering wheel? That might seem like a trivial point, but it's really a deal-breaker for me - those are cold and slick in the winter, and I don't like to drive with gloves on. The last 2 cars I've bought were the TL and the '03 G35 (back when I could live with RWD). It looks like those are the top 2 choices again.

jpdisarro

The G37x would also be the closest competitor with the TL for me. I would be interested in the G37x AWD coupe, but unfortunately, the closest Infiniti dealer is 130 miles away from where I will be moving next year. That leaves Subaru, Acura and BMW as the only options for AWD sedans, and I would not be willing to pay over $45k for a 335xi, so BMW is out as well. The 2010 Subaru Legacy GT sounds like it could be interesting. I may be willing to go FWD, but RWD is not an option.

dvsutton

however, your problems are atypical, as Honda and Acura (particularly Acura) do have a reputation of making cars that are rather reliable...?

SAY WHAT? I would love for you to come into the waiting room I am currently sitting in. As I write this on my lap top in a uncomfortable chair in the Honda dealership in northern California, surrounded by thirty or more "customers, seven who are in their for transmission problems on Odysseys, Pilots, MDX's, and Ridgelines like me. Tell them that the quality on Honda products are better than the most. I did a quick survey of how many of us are going to buy another Honda/Acura product. The results were 3 out of about 27 would buy another. One persons brother was a salesman here. So I didn't count him. We all want to know why we are paying extra for garbage Honda's?

upstatedoc

"The '09 TL, still haven't tasted one in person. But, the beak is still just plain wrong. It may be bold, it may be different, but to me, it is just ungainly. "

^^ X2 to that...you know, Subaru did change the design of their homely shnoz on the B9 Tribeca only after 1 or 2 MY because of customer complaints. Maybe if enough people complained we could get a reversal. :P

Or better yet, why don't some of the more creative folks (of which I am not) on this forum sketch some ideas?

bodble2

"Maybe if enough people complained we could get a reversal."

I would count on that happening anytime soon. Honda is notoriously stubborn, or slow to react, or both. They haven't changed the equally controversial front end on the CR-V, and it took them, what, 3 years, to change the ugly rear end on the last generation Accord sedan! :mad:

habitat1

We all want to know why we are paying extra for garbage Honda's?

I think you've worn out your anti-Honda/Acura bantor - and potentially your credibility in the process. Over the course of your last dozen posts, about half of them contained a "As I write this on my lap top in a uncomfortable chair in the Honda dealership"...

It's not my place to question the claim of having had two transmission failures in 18k miles. Nor all of the other problems you listed. Or even question your poll-taking skills with "30 or more" customers in the service waiting room. Rather here's what I would suggest to ease your pain:

(1) Have your wife get her own vehicle serviced and repaired and let her sit in the uncomfortable waiting room chair herself. Maybe she did absolutely nothing wrong in the way she drove the Odyssey to cause the failures, but in the slim chance she did, it might help her connect the dots. Worked well for a buddy of mine who's wife had been going through a set of BMW brakes and rotors with every other tank of gas.

(2) Buy manual transmissions, whenever possible. That's my standard policy / recommendation in all of these forums, but it seems particularly appropriate for someone with your (wife's) luck.

(3) Go ahead and get that Ford that you were praising in another forum as "much better looking than the goofy styled Honda and Toyota". I'm sure you will have much less trouble with a Ford than a Honda or Toyota. But just in case, be prepared to sit on the floor of a Ford service lounge when the bankruptcy court repossesses their Barcoloungers to pay off creditors.

(4) Bring those other 27 out of 30 disgruntled Honda customers with you over to Ford. That should get you an immediate appointment as senior vice president of marketing.

Please, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting Honda/Acura is perfect by any means. Good to very good, but definitely not perfect. On the other hand, it seems to me that either you work for Ford or have been so severely mistreated, that you have lost your rational thinking skills. I can't fathom how you've managed to post 5-6 times on different days from the Honda service lounge. Our Acura dealer provides loaners for all service apporintments. My former Honda dealer, upon a $10 convertible latch breaking a second time in the first month, sent their technician 20 miles to my house to install the replacement in my garage. Followed by a call from their national customer service rep to apologize for my inconvenience. Try getting that out of Ford.

Let us know how you make out with the Fiesta or whatever non-goofy car you were considering.

habitat1

However, there are significant negatives, too, which I hope the '09 TL will address.
1. bad understeer and plowing into corners
2. torque steer
3. wheel spin with even moderate acceleration from a stop
4. squealing wheels any time a corner is driven anything but lightly
5. about the slowest car in its class

The new TL-SHAWD should partly take care of some of your issues, but it is going to come at the expense of a nearly 4,000 lb car, which, even with the boosted output, is unlikely to anywhere near as quick as a lighter 335ix and will probably knock 15-20% off your current gas mileage.

It seems like you have the conflict of "needing" FWD or AWD with the desire to have a car that performs like a 50/50 balanced RWD. If it's any consolation, I can sympathize. But given that you indicated that you would have been interested in an AWD AMG car, I would also suggest the 535ix. It's a little more upscale than the 335i and, from what a neighbor who owns one has indicated, is nearly a perfect compromise for all weather, sporty handling and passenger size. They live near us in DC, but have a winter ski house in the Pocono's and the 535ix handlied the snow very well. He previously leased an RL and claims that the 535ix handles and performs much better (described the RL as sluggish).

He also did the unconventional thing and got a 6-speed manual. His wife gave him a little grief in the beginning, suggesting they had "outgrown" a manual transmission; but now she drives the car more than him.

fornov

Thanks for the comment. It is tough to "need" FWD or AWD (and I understand the usage of quotes there). It really limits your options. It seems like more and more cars are coming with an AWD option these days, so perhaps when it's time to replace the car I'm about to buy, I'll have even better options to choose from.

That's a good suggestion about the 535ix (is that new nomenclature? I thought it used to be ...xi) - I did drive one a few months ago, and I liked it quite a bit. I guess I'll need to think about that one more.

I do worry about making the TL so heavy. From what I've seen, it will still be significantly faster than the current (non-type-S) TL. The AWD system sounds very good. I'd only list mileage as a secondary concern because the marginal cost of the extra gas is only a drop in the bucket compared to the marginal cost of the vehicles themselves. It does make you feel better to drive a more fuel-efficient car, though. Perhaps I'll look at a Tesla next time...

bodble2

Oops....meant to say "I would not count on that happening anytime soon".

lax29

fornov
I take it you have not driven the 09 as of yet. Drove my 04 TL to the dealer yesterday and tested the 09 TECH. Didn't realize that they now have "DEMO" cars that are not for sale. Anyway, drove it down some curvy roads and then on to the highway. Drives much bigger then the 3G TL. Not overly faster then the current. Just felt like I was in this large vehicle. When I got back in my 04, it felt like I was driving a civic. Think I need to drive it again to get more of a feel. My first impression wasn't " I got to have this". If you can understand that feeling. Kind of felt that with my 04. However the interior and tech features were great. Made my car feel outdated.

I keep checking for other driving impressions, but doesn't seem to be many of them out there on this forum. Let me know if you drive it.

laurasdada

'Tis a shame that you have had such issues. But, from my experience, your experience (and the poor tortured souls you have had to spend so much time with at the dealer...) are atypical.

My family has owned Honda products since the mid '70s, I can't recall a single issue of note. More recently, since 2003, my father has owned 2 TLs, my brother an MDX and an RDX (and now my father's TL). I'm currently driving an '05 TL. My only issues with the TL have been a couple of rattles, fixed under warranty. My father/brother report no issues. A neighbor is on his second trouble-free TL since '02. My boss even has a first gen TL he bought used with nearly 100,000 miles and has had no issues!

Good luck with the money you'll save (don't invest it in the stock market! :sick: ) by buying your next garbage-free car! Prior to my TL, I drove a garbage-free Chrylser 300m for 5.5 years, maybe a 300 sin basura might be to your liking...

PS: Does your Acura dealer have an NSX as a loaner? My dealer does, but the few times I've had appointments, the person just before me got it!

bodble2

"But, from my experience, your experience...... are atypical.'

That being said, Honda (Acura) quality and reliability aren't what they used to be. Hondas in the '80's and much of the '90's were absolutely bullet-proof with little or no initial quality issues. Not so much now. Still better than most, but more fit and finish problems, initial quality issues, and some lingering mechanical issues such as the transmission problem.

kennyg8

Dvsutton, please don't misunderstand my comments. I am not questioning the fact that your wife's minivan has transmission problem, and I feel sorry for you that you have to deal with this recurring problem. However, as many on this forum has said, your problem is far from being widespread (i.e. atypical) when it comes to Acura or Honda cars in general. In fact, these cars, in my opinion and the opinion of many others, including Consumer Reports, are quite reliable when compared with other brands. In other words, your constant denigration of Acura or Honda is biased, because from your perspective, your wife's minivan is problematic for you (and a very small minority of owners).

While I sympathize with your anger and anguish, but coming to this Acura TL forum (this is not Honda Ody forum) to voice your complaints seems to be a bit out of place and unwarranted, because most members here do not have similar problems with their TLs, especially the 3G. Voice your concerns in the Ody forum and may be you will get a more receptive and sympathetic audience. Peace out!

kennyg8

I do not disagree that the quality of Acura or Honda cars has been slipping in recent years. But I guess you also do not disagree that their quality is still better than many brands. Cars are getting more complex these days, as manufacturers try to jam many more electronic, mechanical and computer-related gizmos into the car. Thus, the chances of having some of these gizmos fail increase exponentially.

[Putting on flame suit as I type this paragraph] Also, most of Acura and Honda cars are now assembled in the U.S., and it appears that the quality and reliability of such cars have slipped. On the other hand, my 3 Maximas (1992, 1997 and 2003) were all made and assembled in Japan and I never had any significant problem with them. I hope my 06 TL will give me the same quality.

fornov

No, I have not driven the 09 yet. I've been trying to be patient and wait for the SH-AWD version to come out before I drive one, since that's the only version I would consider buying. Were you saying your dealer has demo's of the AWD version? I don't know if my local dealer has any of those, but I'll have to ask. I'm going in for my next routine service next week, so if they do have one, I'll make sure I drive it and give my report on my experience.

bodble2

Bingo! You took the words right out of my mouth --- no question that the increase in problems in Honda and Acura cars are in large part due to their increased complexity and sophistication over the years. That, however, doesn't explain the fit and finish problems, which leads to the second valid point you made, which was in regard to the fact that most Hondas and Acuras are now made in North America. While maybe not scientifically proven, but I think there is significant anecdotal evidence that suggests that Japanese-built cars generally have better quality and reliability. Of course, there are exceptions, but I'm speaking generally.

dvsutton

Thanks for chiming in. How long have you been selling Hondas? I didn't know you were one of THOSE people who only buy imports thinking they are superior. I WAS one of THOSE people. But I have learned from my mistakes.

bonju

My husband and I have been torn between the TL and the Infiniti G35. I think we've settled on the G. The ride and finish of the G are more pleasing to us, but the slightly better fuel economy and increased voice commands are appealing in the TL.

We really dislike the 2009 TL exterior design and have found that the front seat head rests are angled uncomfortably too far forward, causing noticeable discomfort after even a short test-driving trip. We've been told that the head rests are only adjustable upward and forward (I think that's what we were told). Wondering if anyone else has been troubled by this and if anyone knows if there's a fix for this annoyance?

habitat1

How long have you been selling Hondas?

(Warning - bodble - you may want to skip this post as I feel compelled to discuss another one of my automotive experiences).

Dvsutton - The answer is ever since I quit selling Porsches. I think most car enthusiasts and experts would claim that the 911 is one the most time tested, durable, highest fit and finish sports car in the world. Yet my 3 year old 911S had to go back to the shop at least 5 times before they finally replaced the entire motor system to fix a convertible top that would get stuck in the down position. Next week I'm heading back in for the third time my automatic deploying rear spoiler has failed. And twice last year the car flooded through (supposedly) clogged cowl drains while simply sitting outside on level ground in the rain. The first time, it was a $5,000 reapir bill that I got hit with a $1000 deductable on my insurance policy, the second time Porsche took full responsibility, but only after I went to a their national customer service rep and laid down the law - literally and figuratively.

Do you see me posting ad nauseum that "Porsche sucks" or its a "garbage car"? No - about the most I've done is post a single "buyer beware" on the flooding issue. I know of dozens of other Porsche owners that have had one or two problems, but nothing like my misfortune. And, once I get past the hassles I've had, the car still drives like no other car I've ever owned. So I simply put it in perspective.

Do yourself a favor. Sell your friggin Odyssey. At least with Honda, the high resale value means that Odyssey is worth about 5 times what any used Ford is worth at 20k miles. And then buy the Ford. But try to understand that your campaign to convince the rest of the world that Acura and Honda are "garbage cars" is a fruitless exercise. I think you have sufficiently "vented". If you really think you'd be better off in a Ford or Chevy, go ahead and put your money where your mouth is. I suspect they are practically giving them away at this point.

You may not believe this, but I sincerely wish you the best of luck. It isn't fun having misfortune and you do have my sympathy for that.

pat

Let's agree to disagree and drop this. The subject is the 09 TL, we don't have to keep arguing about other cars here.

charles12

laurasdada,

I agree with your that Honda's quality is good. I used to have a civic and accord (both brought brand new). For 8 -10 years both had no problem at all. That is why I brought the 2008 TL. One painful issue for the TL is the rattle noise. I noticed that some of the rattle noise is temperature sensitive (e.g. above 70 some locations make rattle noise and below 40 some other locations). The rattle comes and goes. I am always nervous when the car passes some uneven road, making noise (not rattle) from doors and dashboard. Do you have such problem after fixing by dealers. What is your rattle noise and how they fixed it? The dealer here said that the noise is normal since it is a sports car.

Your suggestion is highly appreciated.

C

Since

laurasdada

Hi, Charles:

The first rattle was the sunroof wind deflector. Replaced, no more rattle. The second was the drivers sun visor, replaced no rattle. Unfortunately, each fix took two trips to the dealer before finally resolved.

Other than that, no persistent rattles. I think the rattles I do hear are from all the detritus I have in door bins, center bin, glove box!

roccoman7

I noticed a post from a few days ago bashing honda in that their transmissions fail in 30k miles or less. For a while there, that was pretty much my experience . I had transmission failures at 19,000 and 61,000. I had a couple minor problems between that but I am proud to say at 101,000 miles nothing at all has gone wrong in the last 40,000. Although I was not a happy camper when my first transmission blew inside the Lincoln tunnel to manhattan in rush hour on a friday evening, I must say that Acura handled the situation extremely professionally. Luckily they noticed the 2nd transmission failure during an oil change when I observed something off when shifting from 3rd to 4th and had them check it. Anyway my point is that granted Acura had MAJOR transmission problems in cars built in those couple of years, they took full responsibility and made sure not a dime left my pocket and i was inconvenienced as minimally as possible. Both replacements took 7 days in which I was given a loaner car. If i was treated any differently, I would not have been at the acura dealership on September 24th to be one of the first to test drive the 09. Despite everybodys complaints about its size and ugliness, I really enjoyed driving it and have it high on my list when I'm ready to buy in the next month or two. I'll do this with the confidence that if there are any problems down the road with engine, trans or whatever, acura will be man enough to admit it and take appropriate action. These past transmission problems will not affect my decision at all when considering it as my next car.

hpmctorque

"... have found that the front seat head rests are angled uncomfortably too far forward, causing noticeable discomfort after even a short test-driving trip."

I sat in a '09 TL in the showroom and didn't even go for a test drive, and experienced exactly what you described. I asked the sales person if there's an adjustment that would eliminate this discomfort, and he said there isn't. he said It was designed that way for safety reasons, to reduce the chances or severity of whiplash. Well, safety or no safety, it's a deal breaker for me if the seating position causes neck discomfort. I'm sure it doesn't affect everyone the same way, but I'm glad to know that there are others who experienced the same discomfort.

It seems to me that those of us with an anatomy that makes this new TL headrest uncomfortable would probably lean our heads back further if the headrest allowed it, so that our heads would be the same distance from the headrest as in the TL headrest, or our heads would touch the headrest, but at a more comfortable angle, thereby achieving the same whiplash protection.

Incidentally, the headrest of my wife's older TL doesn't present this problem.

gundersen

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those transmission problems covered under warranty. Those cars have a 7 year 100,000 mile power train warranty. All car companies have recalls on different things. Honda/Acura happened to have tranny problems from 99 to 03 or 04. They're still great cars and have excellent resale value.

anythngbutgm

Haby, you need to get yourself back into that S2000... :P J/K Sorry to hear about your troubles with the 911, I still have it on my wish list anyways, but it won't be for a very long time since my 04' S2000 is gonna be with me for a very long time

It's been a while since I posted and actually the TL is what got me back on the Edmunds boards (I was lurking for a while). Anyways, I am interested in the SH-AWD with a stick (I know you'll appreciate that one) so I'll be lurking here for a while. Cheers!!!

Oh and dvsutton is a phoney. Do a quick internet search and you'll find the same rants going back to last year. At one point it was problems with a Corolla, then a Camry. The whole Odyssey thing is made up, seriously. At one point it was Sienna.
link title

Thankfully, his posts on the N&V board get erased soon after they are posted so he's just wasting a ton of keystrokes for nothing.

Hey dv, I like Fords too man so don't take this personally.

Anyways, with regards to the TL, I don't really have any complaints with the styling, outside of the beak. A honda enthusiast site has some great photoshops of what the car would look like with portions of the grill painted to match the car and it becomes much more palatable. Otherwise, I have seen a couple being delivered to the dealerships and in darker colors, the grill looks fine.

But I predict an emergency makeover to "tone it down" come MMC.

Cheers!

djdj

That is bad news. I wanted to consider the TL; might be a short visit.
There are so many cars with those new headrests. I liked the Mercury Milan but they gave me a headache from angling my head forward. The salesman told me a lot of people said the same thing. Impala's are worse; just impossible to drive. Tonight I test drove a Lincoln MKZ; I liked it a lot. Headrests were okay, but just barely and only if you pulled it all the way up. The sales manager said the biggest complaint on the new Lincoln MKS was the head rests.
I had a TSX loaner for a day; no problem, very comfortable seats, I didn't notice the headrests.

hpmctorque

Maybe if enough of us who are uncomfortable with some of these newer headrests make our wishes known, the manufacturers will modify them.

I don't buy the "it's for safety" argument because if they were adjustable by, say, one inch, those of us whose anatomy required it would still drive with our heads against the headrest, or just millimeters in front of it.

gundersen

Lincoln's have absolutely horrible resale value. The MKS is 45 grand. You could get a BMW 335i for that!!! I won't even begin to compare those two cars. Ok I will... MKS 0-60 in 7.5. 335i 0-60 in 5.2. It's mind boggling why anyone would buy a Lincoln, unless it's used. In that case you might be getting a deal because it'll lose half it's value in the first 3 years. And the MKZ is 37 large. You could get a G37 for that.Lincoln's have less power and the worst resale value of any car in their class. YUCK!!! American cars in general have horrible resale. For example. Look on auto trader. A 2007 Ford Taurus is averaging around $12,000. That's roughly a $25,000 car brand new. A honda accord is around the same price depending on the options for 07. But they're averaging $18,000. and a much better car. There are many more examples like this. OK, thats my american car company rant.

fornov

I got a chance to take a TL for a test drive yesterday while I had my '06 TL in for service. I thought I'd post my thoughts here while they're still fresh in my mind both for my own reference, and for those who are waiting to hear feedback from other people's experiences.

First off, let me say that I'm pretty neutral on the styling. It doesn't have that OH WOW! factor that I thought when I first saw the '04 TL. But I don't feel turned off by the appearance either. I think it has a futuristic look, and in a year or two, it will look very good. Ditto for the grill, but as with everything I'll write here, this is just my opinion!

The interior looks very nice. I think most people would agree with that. I drove a model that had the tech option. Frankly, I couldn't imagine not getting the tech package. The seats were very comfortable; there was plenty of leg room, shoulder room and head room (I'm 6'2, 185). I didn't have a problem with the headrest. I started with it all the way down, and then after about 15 minutes, I remembered that I needed to check out the headrests after reading what I've read here. It was a good sign that I didn't even think about it until I consciously directed my attention to it. I raised the headrest a few notches and my head was in the right place on the headrest. I did think it felt most comfortable all the way down as I could extend my next over the top a little bit. So FWIW, the headrest didn't bother me.

The navigation system was pretty straightforward, but operating the stereo controls and weather and everything else didn't feel intuitive right away. I'm sure after playing around with it for a few days, it would seem natural, but I didn't get there in a 30-minute test drive. The sound system was AWESOME. Much, much better than in my '06. Bass sounded deeper, no rattle, treble was very crisp and sharp. Even Jim Rome sounded tolerable.

My driving impressions were good, and this was in a base model (not SH-AWD). My dealer doesn't have an AWD version yet, so I had to make due with what they had. I live in Iowa, and we're always the last to get anything good. The steering felt more responsive and the car turned more accurately. I drove a lot of the roads I drive routinely in town and in the country so I could get a feel for how the car performs in direct comparison to my '06. I also didn't experience the easy wheelspin that I often get in my '06. Basically, anytime I accelerate from a standstill with even moderate force, the front wheels spin. It's embarrassing for that to happen when you don't want it to.

I don't know that this car is quicker than the '06, but it feels like it is. I've always felt like my current vehicle has a "heavy" accelerator - in other words, you have to push hard into the pedal to get the car to go, harder than you would expect. Sure, if you mash the pedal (after the car has started rolling), the car will get going, but I don't want to have to put my foot to the floor any time I want to get some acceleration. The '09 seems to have a more responsive pedal and that makes it feel quicker.

Torque steer is reduced as well. Any time I accelerate hard in the '06, especially in a corner, I can tell the front wheels are working too hard. This seemed to be reduced in the '09, although I must admit I didn't have enough opportunities to be completely sure. Of course the SH-AWD system will help with that (and the wheelspin) greatly.

Overall, I have to say it was a positive experience. The test drive made me like the car more, not less, which is the whole point of test drives, IMO. I still plan to look more closely at the SH-AWD version when it is available. It is supposedly going to be here in 2-3 weeks (heard that before, haha). I'm going to make sure I drive it on the same day as the G37x as I think these are the top two cars I'm considering. I still need to drive a CTS, and maybe a GS350, maybe a 335xi again. It's fun to try these all out, and the good news is that there isn't a bad choice among the group. It's sorting out the details that makes the decision fun.

anythngbutgm

Thanks for the great writeup! Good read :shades:

djdj

I drove the TSX first. Very nice but between the TSX-Tech (I just want the 6 disc changer) and the TL - nonTech (I don't need Nav) it is only a $3,000 diff.

I liked them both. The TL has lots of power that comes on easily and more room. The TSX will move but the engine's RPM soars and it gets a bit loud. I found I preferred the TSX dashboard; more storage, easier to reach things. On the highway,to my surprise, the TSX seemed quieter with less wind noise and the car worked flawlessly.

The TL had other problems. The driver's side headrest would not move until the salesman got out of the car, sat behind me and yanked hard. (Once raised it did not bother me at all with its placement.) On the highway, the car shook. I commented a wheel must be out of balance. The salesman ventured a theory that one tire might be low on air but then checked the pressure monitor and found out the pressures were okay. Even at street legal speeds the car had some kind of vibration. After the test drive, the salesman left me in the showroom and immediately took the TL down to the shop. Since both are new models I wonder if this is representative of build quality differences between the two vehicles.

For reference, the guy offered me a price of $35,000 on the car with splash guards ($215) added to the $35,750 sticker. After some more discussions on financing the guy finally admitted the car 'that should be on our lot somewhere" wasn't due in until Dec 20th. This dealer was higher when I was shopping for my MDX so I'll shop it around.

I 'should' buy the TSX (fun to drive, cheaper, better gas mileage) but the TL's power and interior space is attractive.

I am not a true Honda/Acura fan. Our MDX is pretty good though I think our dealer's service people are pretty clueless. My 1986 Accord was the worst built car I ever owned (always dealer maintained; maybe that was a mistake) that I had to dump at 66K miles because of needed repairs. My mother-in-law's 2001 TL needed the trans replacement as did her brother's TL. My personal opinion is that Honda/Acura (as well as Toyota/Lexus) just cannot keep up its quality with today's automotive complexity. To me, the quality of the simpler Civic proves that but I don't want to drive that.

Rather than price shop by the Internet, I'll go to another dealer and pretend I haven't driven a TL yet to see if that car drives better.

traumeri

I agree with your assessment, pretty much matched my test drive last month. The Acura salesman felt tha the Infiniti G35/G37 will be the biggest competition and I think he is right. Although I do not like the G37 styling that much, it does offer better raw performance (presumably, and only talking about AT not MT). I do anticipate the quality of finish to be slightly inferior and I hate that analog clock inside and the NAVI interface perched way up top. The rear seating is slightly smaller but the trunk slightly bigger. I also anticipate less road/wind isolation. The pricing is fairly comparable....