General Intake / Exhaust Mods

fredly

Well I have a S&B Powerstack Cone, generally the same as K&N
I am glad I put it in place of my stock airbox,
1. first thing I noticed was a firery growl under the hood
2. increased gas milage, gained 2-3 mpg
3. saved cash on new filters.
4. I put this on the dyno, I don't have before and after stats, but
I did pull more HP to the ground than most of the other Cougars
at a dyno meet last year. Granted they had more mods, and different mods(strange results)
5. I feel a difference in responsivness, i've switched back and forth to stock
box on a couple occasions and there is a difference.

q45man

Since most modern engines are in a sealed compartment with the only inflow being heated air from the radiator, in summer the underhood air may reach 180 - 200F in traffic. Most engines have a factory fresh air intake which provides unheated air to MAF. To silence intake noise this may be somewhat convoluted in it path to the air filter but the best ones only limit flow by 1-2% including the stock air filter [when clean] and its air box. So only 2-6 HP worst case is available for improvement verses no filter at all and a horn on the MAF.
Air density deceases 1% for every 11F increase in temperature so if you replace stock air box with any kind of aftermarket filter which draws hotter air you will see a power decrease due to temperature increase. If the air is 66F hotter you will see a 6% power drop, if the filter is 2% less restrictive than stock, you will see only a net 4% loss.
The only way to know for sure is place a thermometer where the after market filter would sit and measure the temperature. It may be over 180F in summer vs only 90F outside where the stock air normally enters or a 5% net loss.
When dyno test are run you always see the hood open because RPM instruments must be connected to dyno [but the real reason is to cool engine compartment air to make the test look better.
Unfortunately you can't drive with the hood open.
Don't be fooled by the loud noise or accept any open hood dyno readings as real world conditions.
As most new ecu have a hot air protection program which reduces timing in very hot weather to reduce spark knock in case something goes wrong with cooling system.....by taking in hotter than normal air you could hurt performance a lot.
Don't understand comments about better mileage since the MAF/ecu measures air flow exactly and opens injector time for that air flow unless air is very very hot and injectors are leaned to match this low air density which would drop power and of course increase mileage. Increased power and increased mileage are the opposite end of the spectrum.

md2002

If you replace your stock airbox and put in a new air intake tube w/ cone filter you can expect something (other than noise and reduced cost of filter replacement) for your trouble? I am planning on having an APC air intake w/ K&N filter installed (www.4apc.net). my goal was to add some hp (about 4-6% was estimated) on my 4RUNNER. I am not interested in make my runner sound like a big block V8, just some hp, maybe gas mileage thats about it? Just curious is this a fair estimate????

300michael

I agree with you if the intake is taking in hot air from under the hood, but if you have cooler air ducted to it, then you should get the gains. I am using the air box but have a S&B Power stack inside of it so that it takes in only outside cooler air. It works well with my dual exhaust. I am also enjoying the increased gas mileage.

fredly

Thank you michael,
yes, my factory box did get cool air, and so does my
S&B, Underhood temps are fairly well regulated
but are consistantly around 190.
The louder intake is just a nice bonus, I would never
think that noise = HP... i'll BBL for more time for work

rafiq01

My friend's been bothering me ever
since I got my '00 Civic EX coupe
to get a K&N Air Filter. I'm getting
a security system installed so should
I get the filter installed along with
it by the same mechanic or is it easy
to install these things like a simple
screwdrive job? Thanks in advance.

bhepler

It's a flathead screwdriver, a socket wrench, and five minutes of your time. You can do it yourself at any point.

md2002

instead of the APC unit w/ K&N cone filter. After reading and re-reading Gadgets sites (www.gadgetonline.com) and seeing his info showing the difference between the K&N FIPK and the Amsoil foam w/ oil filter.

I chose to try the amsoil filte first. It cost me $32.30 +tax and shipping. Less exepensive, but I feel that I may be able to achieve similar results. The next step is to find a way to modify either the filter box or correct the engineers error regarding the intake lines that bend @ 90 degrees.

Anyway I get my new Toy(ota) tommorow and will isntall the filter when I get it so I can determine on the drive home how it does. I should have a good bench against the multiple highway/city demo drives I did.

Thanks for the input and will let you know. $33 was less of a risk than $200 including install for the APC unit.

md2002

I finally got my 4RUNNER today and with several test drives behind me on equally equiped SR5 4RUNNERs I can say that a replacement airfilter will definitely help.

I installed the Amsoil at the dealership (took lest than 2 minutes) after I took it around for a quick demo drive. The amsoil filter which is foam w/ oil in it to trap the dirt made a BIG DIFFERENCE in performance. So I am glad i put in the new filter. Amsoil is about $33 for the
TS-115 for Toyota 4RUNNERS. I would visit www.amsoil.com and see what they have.

Not to deter any K&N users, but I felt that I am getting equal if not better performance filter upgrade for less money. The amsoil is cleanable (every 25k or 1 yr) and you just re-oil and put back in. Good luck and have fun.

judas

Anyone else think this guy is an amsoil salesperson? Big difference seat of the pants from a drop in air filter on a 4runner? Kinda doubt it.

obyone

TRD supercharger behind it...

blownpony

There is no air filter made no matter how expensive that is going to make a difference in hp that you would actually feel. You may gain a couple hp by evening out the airflow or allowing a little more airflow but you wont feel that. You could get the same differnce simply by the tempature outside being a few degrees cooler. To say that you can feel the differnce is inacurate unless you had like a 4" dirt clot crammed in the air intake somewhere.

blairwhite

I own two vehicles. One is a 95 Plymouth Voyager with a 3.3 L engine. The other is a 99 Toyata Tercel.
I started using the K&N filter in the van several years ago. I did notice throttle response was better. My assumption this is due to the extra air available at lower RPM (less restricted air for light vacuum condition). As I use this one for towing a trailer, I did notice it was easier when towing. Although as far as Gas mileage or HP, no "real" difference was noticed.
I used my Toyota with the original filter until time for replacement. The main reason I decided to use a K&N for it as well was the price for a paper filter was $35 + tax (CDN) and the K&N was $65 + tax (CDN). I felt at least I would regain my investment when it came time for the second paper replacement. Again the big difference I found was in throttle response. No other gains have been noticed.
The throttle response from stop lights I figure is what may attribute to any gains in Gas mileage as you will not have to press as hard on the gas pedal to accelerate but once the RPM starts rising above 3000, the responsiveness returns to "normal".
Just my observations ...
Has anyone ever heard of the Platinum Vapor Injection (PVI) system? I understand that it is essentially a "bolt on" that introduces platinum vapor into the intake. The idea is that the platinum will allow the engine to burn more of the fuel as opposed to letting the catalytic converter "waste" burn it off.
If anyone has heard or better yet had any experience with this system, I would like to hear about it.

md2002

I am not an amsoil salesrep. Throttle repsonse is what improved for me, and therefore I am getting better pick up at the a complete stop. When I test drove all the 4RUNNERs before I got mine, they ALL LAGGED at a dead stop. But there is proof that a less restrictive air filter will help in some areas, however I am not saying I gained 20hp, but better response at the throttle.

So thank you for your compliments, but I am not an Amsoil salesrep, I am in sales, but for Technology products and not car stuff

md2002

Some of my decision was based on research another 4RUNNER owner did. Visit www.gadgetonline.com and see his Dyno results of various stages of use with both K&N and Amsoil.

I am not saying K&N is not worth it, just that for 1/2 the price I feel that I got the same results with a drop in filter by another company that K&N drop in would get me.

See for yourself.

blownpony

Your previous post said "The amsoil filter which is foam w/ oil in it to trap the dirt made a BIG DIFFERENCE in performance." Now you say that it just improved throttle response. Throttle response does not equal horsepower. Yeah you may start to move sooner but you will by no means have increased performance that you would actually feel. By your previous post you make it out that there is an increase in power that you can actually feel. It just isn't true.

vac23

From what I understand from reading various info about k&n. when the filter is clean, it doesn't filter as well as if it was dirty. I forgot up to what size particle it can filter but I remember it wasn't a big difference.

md2002

If you are getting more air into the engine (cooler air at that) then would it not increase power (horsepower?). My feeling is that I did get better throttle response and my feeling is I gained some of the suffocated horsepower that I lose with a stock filter.

YES the engine has xxx horsepower, and unless you add a TRD Super charger you can't go above that xxx horsepower, BUT you can get some of the power back that is robbed from you.

If I am wrong, then okay, BUT does K&N and others not advertise they give increased power? Again if I am wrong, okay, no one is perfect. Thanks for your help.

bhepler

We're getting into semantics here.

Heads, headers, h-pipes, cat-backs, intakes, filters and various & sundry other modifications can all be considered to free up untapped horsepower that is "robbed" from you by the factory. Most people just say that they add horsepower and be done with it.

If you want to get down to hair-splitting, unnatural aspiration (supercharge, turbocharge or nitrous) is how you "add" horsepower. That's why they're classified as "power adders" in most drag racing competitions. You are not "freeing" horsepower, you're adding it.

Note: Changining the bore size, compression ratio, cams, etc is not considered "freeing" bottled horsepower, it is changing the engine.

That's if you want to get seriously anal in your terminology. If you don't mind using conversational car talk, just about everything adds horsepower, even filters. The only thing that does not add horsepower but makes your car go faster is to put your car on a diet.

Hope that helps.

judas

Of course K&N advertises that they increase horsepower. That doesn't mean that it actually does it. Splitfire used to advertise something like 3-6 HP gains or some garbage like that, and those plugs are provably junk. The only way you could get power like that was if your plug was 30 year old, or something your kid made in ceramics class out of clay and a paperclip. The bottom line is it's not going to increase HP much, and most likely not at all, and even if it did, you definitely would not feel it.

md2002

Thanks for your feedback. I wasn't actually trying to go down that road at all, but rather respond to Judas & blownpony's responses to my posts. I feel I did get back some of the "robbed horsepower". I agree that you can only add horsepower in the ways you mention and all I did was FREE up lost power. That was what I was aiming to convey, but sometimes the hands type faster than the mind. Thanks for your feedback.

jauto98

hello people, i was just wondering if you guys know a good place that sells k&n filters at a reasonable price, either by ordering it or in the atlanta, georgia area. looking for one for my 97 gmc sonoma 2.2L. If anyone knows of any other way to get more power from that engine, it would certainly be appreciated... thanks

judas

Not worth it. I wouldn't bother buying one. Most people I've talked to don't think you get any more power out of a K&N (Including myself) but something no one can argue with is that the smaller the engine, the smaller any gains you would get from it. I'd save your dough and buy something with a bigger engine next time.

jauto98

ye... i know that the 2.2L lacks power... i was thinking of maybe getting a k&n filter, maybe the generation II. i figure, since the filter is reuseable, it would lower my cost in the long run and it will pay itself (eventually). in addition, im looking into getting a free-flowing exhaust system (don't want one to loud, figuring my dad drives the sonoma occassionally), such as a gibson...or flowmaster, any suggestions here???

thanks

SPYDER98

I agree, a normally aspirated 4cyl would not see much gains, but! a small displacement motor with a turbo charger, "could" see dramatic differences if the stock air intake system was designed poorly. Turbos feed off air intake, the more air it can consume the faster the spool up and higher boost pressure = more power.

blownpony

The only thing is that the people who were wanting to know about the filter for their cars did not have turbos...they were running civics and 4 runners...i dont doubt that it would be benificial on a forced induction motor as you are moving a LOT more air...but on an NA vehicle you arent going to get as much gain if any and it wouldnt be a gain that you would feel.

300michael

I have a 3.5L with a free flow exhaust, and an S&B cone filter. I paid $24 for the filter, which I liked better than the K&N. The stock filters run the same price for my vehicle so I figure that in another 12K the filter will have paid for itself. I would not get it for any performance increase though.
I have a Magnaflow on my vehicle (I changed from a single to a dual exhaust). The orginal set up was 2 resonator mufflers, and standard muffler. The new set up is 1 resonator (Magnaflow)collector muffler and a Rhino muffler the combo is very quiet. It shaved off .4 off my 0-60 time, and I am getting about a 4-5 mpg increase on the Hiway.

jauto98

how's it going people... thanks for all the comments. The main reason im thinking of doing some mods on my 2.2L sonoma is because when i have the air on, it makes the sonoma run slower as you may know. So i figure if i try to increase air into the engine and relieve some of the back pressure from the exhuast, i could gain what was lost from the stock setup and thus give a little "boost", especially going up hill. Also, im hoping with some mods, i could also increase mpg. Im sorry, but i think 20mpg for mostly highway is pretty lame and i don't abuse the truck (Im easy on the gas, and on the brakes). No matter how i drive it, i still end up with 19-20mpg per fill up. Sure, i could go with turbo-charging route, but i don't want to spend a whole lot of money and i don't want to add any more wear to the engine. Hope someone could help me out... Thanks

judas

Curious, how were the 0-60 times measured that it decreased by .4?

dgemini

As I posted earlier. I am happy with my S&B powerstack filter that came with my KKM air intake.

I have never taken mine off, but I know people who have gone back to the stock filter and they did not like the results. It is one of those things where you don't really notice it once you have it on, but you do when you take it off.

As a matter of fact I cleaned it today. I used the K&N kit, which KKM says looks fine.

I hope I didn't over oil it. I followed the instructions as best as I could.

jauto98

thanks. sorry for posting stuff like this, but im sort of new at modifiying anything ... this is the first in my experience in trying to get more power out of an engine, so bear with me. I have never heard of S&M or KMM...how are they and how do you care for them. All i know is that im sort of limited at what i can and can not use. For one, gibsons seems to be the only one that makes a exhaust system for my sonoma and some company, called volantintake offers a high intake sys for my 2.2L. Thats all i have been able to find. I guess i should just stick with the stock air box but change the filter to K&N. Any help with this?????? and where is a good place to get such mods... thanks again....

300michael

judas, I used a little device called "G-Tech", it measures 0-60 times, 1/4 mile times, Skid Pad, HP to the rear wheels, and a few other tests. It is a pretty handy little device. I bought it from a friend who got married and sold his Hot Rod. So he sold me his unit. For the 0-60 times it starts the clock when it sences movement in the vehicle so your reaction time is never a factor.

jauto98, I would go to the libuary and check out the Chevy and Truck magazines there you should be able to find a lot of information (web sites, companies and such) for your truck.
By the way the air filter companies are K&N, and S&B. they both have web sites.

jauto98

thanks 300michael... i was looking at the S&B filter site, but i couldn't find when is a proper time interval to clean the filter. Do you just guess when to clean it or just clean it when its dirty. The filter seems comparable to K&N, which is more well known than S&B. anyway, thanks.. oh, here is a website where i have some pics of my sonoma

http://members.tripod.com/jauto98/

later...

bhepler

Summit has a wide selection of K&N filters and their prices are usually competitive. Hit their web site and look up the part number that belongs to your truck. Theoretically, K&N's web site will have a listing for it.

blownpony

I know I have seen them at Autozone or some place like that too. Not sure about the exact pricing but you might be able to save a little in not having it shipped.

jauto98

i was wondering if any of u have used a product made by jacobs electronics. does it work or is it a waste of money.. thanks

300michael

Reoil every 15,000 clean between 25 and 50,000. My 7" dual cone, cost was $24.61 It has a 3.5" mouth. The factory stock filter was $22.50, so for me it was a no-brainer.
Good Luck

300michael

What product are you talking about? From Jacobs electornics. The name sounds famillar.
Sorry about the typo on your name on the previous post.

jauto98

thats cool 300michael... anyway.. jacabs electronics makes some electronics system that is suppose to improve the ignition of the spark plugs, thus resulting in better start ups, more power, and better mileage... but im sort of skeptical and sort of unwilling to pay 250 bucks or more... the product has been out for a while and performance products sells it. So i guess it has to be good.

later

jauto98

hello again people... i was wondering how hard it is to install an exhaust system (probably a gibson system) and how you people installed it... (ie.. what do you need to aid in installation). Also, how hard is it to install an intake system, such as a volant sys (similar to a K&N generation II sys). I sort of need to know, asap if possible before i order some stuff. my dad is somewhat reluctant that im doing this sort of stuff, though ive already told him specifically what to do, i guess its because i've never really modified a vehicle before. Theres a first for everything. Also, have you people had any problems with passing emissions with an intake and exhaust system modification... thanks for youre help....

300michael

I am still testing different intake systems, using 3" plumbing abs pipe. Of which I wll use as a molde to make a fiberglass one later. My vehicle has passed two tests so far, one when I first purchased the car, and a second after the exhaust mods, i did. I wll do another in November (that way it can be used as my biannual test for my vehicle regestration to test the intake system).

camshaft1

i have a '95 me bmw. i want to get a little more response out of her. it's normaly aspirated and i don't want to waste money on useless parts. would a bigger air filter help? i know that even filters that do give more horsepower will only give it to you at the top end, because the engine operates at a certain level at a certain speed. that doesn't change whether or not you have the option of getting more air. should i just stick with a free flow exhaust instead? i want o know this stuff before i buy a chip so that everything can calibrated.

bhepler

If I had to choose between the two, I'd say go with the exhaust. It really depends on the car, and I'm not familiar enough with BMWs to say where the best place to upgrade is.

Look around the WWW, find a BMW enthusiast's site and ask for suggestions on a good first modification.

And while you're at it, get a washable air filter. It's worth it just from the reusability standpoint. A bigger air filter is probably not the issue. An air filter that flows more is what is important.

pks1

Hi
I have a 1994 Mercury Tracer 1.9L with only 32K. The car has only 88hp and about 103 tourqe. I was wondering how much power increase would I get with a K&N airfilter. Would I fells some significant difference. Also with a sound muffler(the ones that make your car sound like it has a turbo or something)would I get more power in the car .My 88hp can burn some rubber on the stop light if you do it right I am not kidding maybe the 103 tourqe has something to do with it . Does it? And just the other day I was able to do a burnout and while switching from 1 to 2'nd gear I made another pretty good burnout . So am I hoping with the K&N it will be a little easier Thanx in advence .

SPYDER98

94 mercury tracer with a 1.9 liter. Ummmm NO...

johnbono

Add some Type R stickers and a wing. At least then you'll *FEEL* like you are going faster

judas

Virtually any car will squeal the tires with a manual transmission if you dump the clutch/rev high enough.

pks1

Would I notice a difference in power after installing the k&n in the mercury?

pks1

johnbono my car actually has alloy wheels and a spoiler ?
Im guessing you have a japanese car . Its ok I wish to own a civic.

SPYDER98

You probably won't notice a difference with the filter alone. I installed a K&N replacement in my spyder and did not notice much if any difference. Your not going to feel 1 or 2 extra hp if your lucky to even achieve that.
My advice would be to look for an aftermarket intake system.
Even if you don't gain anything from a drop in K&N. It's still worth the money. The filter will pay for itself down the road anyways..