General Intake / Exhaust Mods

anonymous02

I guess it is just like the old flip over the air cleaner cover trick from the '70's!

scotian

If the little extra power that had been needed to suck in air is no longer used, MPG increases slightly. If this little extra power is used to accelerate/drive faster, MPG decreases but the car might perform better on a dyno.

Whether or not it is a significant change, or is a cost effective change, varies by the car and its driver. But it is a change, nonetheless.

nvedrani

engines with the K & N, I have a 2000 Mazda Millenia S (2.3L Miller Cycle engine) and am debating whether or not to utilize a K & N air filter?? Any suggestions as to it's usability and or overall impact to a supercharged engine?? ThankS!

8u6hfd

in a normally aspirated car, a K&N will make barely a difference in power.

With forced induction (turbos & superchargers), it will more of a difference in power.

nvedrani

so you 8u6hfd, think that it will be worth my while to add a K & N, I know I'm not going to get any substantial HP gains, but I would like to get a throatier exhaust note and maybe a little better MPG (say 1 or 2)??...do you think this plausible and possible with the supercharged K & N bolt on?? and Thanks for the prvious post, ppreciate it!

8u6hfd

In terms of sound:

1. the OE replacment K&N panel style filter will should change the sound. You should see a decent, I'm guessing 5-10 bhp gain, and better MPG about 1 or 2.

2. If you consider a cone style intake system, the intake noise is louder, rumbles a bit more (especially aw wide open throttle or WOT). Gains, I would expect to be a little better than the panel style.

3. Exhaust, it will not affect it. A different, fleer-flowing exhuast will do this (avoid fart can mufflers).

anonymous02

Didn't you read any of the posts here?

It will probably not give you much, if any performance gain.

It will not affect your EXHAUST sound at all, since the air filter is part of the INTAKE, not the EXHAUST!!

With a 2.3l otherwise stock engine, you will get some more noise, and that is about it. Your money is better spent on 5 CD's. If it is a car which takes advantage of premium fuel, buy that instead.

nvedrani

No I just post questions...duh??...OF COURSE I READ MANY OF THE POSTS HERE!!, I happened to be asking about the effect of the K & N air filter on a PARTICULAR engine (didn't you read my post!!), if you even did an ounce of research before blabbling your reply you would note that the Miller cycle REQUIRES premium fuel. Besides, I thought that was what this forum was for ASKING SPECIFIC QUESTIONS....no need for you, "temp user", to reply to any more of my posts.

anonymous02

tidester

Let's count to 10 and breathe deeply!

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coonhound

nvedrani: All anonymous02 really wanted to say.
Was, SAVE YOUR MONEY! I've purchased two drop in K&N filters for normally asperated engines. Actually the most noticeable result is more intake noise. There has been a slight decrease in mpg but perhaps there is some high rpm maxed out load that will show an infinitesimal increase in HP output.

nvedrani

There are just SOOOO many different opinions about the drop in K & N replacement air filter. I was looking for "real world" experience and NOT just someone who "wants" to feel the difference because deep down they know they blew $50 or $60 on a $10 item. I'll stick with the OEM. Thanks!

anonymous02

thanks coonhound for making that clearer.

thank you nvedrani for cooling off and reading what he expressed more clearly for me.

armtdm

Although I have not tried the K&N I have tried another brand of foam filter on several cars. Based upon oil analysis and time I found that the foam fitlers are not worth the cost or hassle.
After a few years of claening they tend to fall apart from the ehat, stretch or not maintain their shape, a pain to re-oil and oil drips into the housing and the most telling part, they did not filter out dirt any better then the paper elements.

In fact the OEm filters did a better job then the replacement Purolators etc. This was not true for me in oil fitlers but fro air I only use OEM now

scotian

http://www.tuninglinx.com/html/afilter.html

armtdm

Basically says that the K&N foam filters, without other mods (especially cold air intake) are a waste of money. It is people's perceptiopn of more HP that fuels the sale of these!

midlifecrisis

When I installed my K&N, first of all I noticed my paper filter was a mess! I have a Grand Am GT with ram air, so the air filter takes a beating. This alone was enough reason for me to go with a filter cartridge that can be cleaned and reused.

I may have noticed a little more "pop" in the car's performance, but that is all perception and can't be proved one way or the other. Gas mileage has not really changed.

I could sit here and flame people who spend thousands of dollars on mods that gain negligible improvements in a car's performance, but I won't. It seems a hundred times more petty to flame people because they spent $40 on an air filter because they thought it would help out their car for various reasons.

anonymous02

I figure, if you want a faster car, buy a faster car. It is easier to do it up front than to try to make little modifications to improve it. If it were so obvious, I'd think the manufacturer would have done it in the first place.

scotian

Oh, you're no fun!

silvercelica01

I pretty much think getting any type of performance from your K&N is all in the head. I have a K&N in my 2001 Celica GT, and my wifes 2000 Rav4 AWD. Both cars I cannot tell any difference (both 5 speeds). Maybe on a higher hp car you can tell???? Fuel wasn't that much noticed either. And while I am busy revving up my Celica to tell if there was a power gain, I was using more fuel :-)

However, after 18,000 miles I liked the fact I can just clean it and put it back in, save me $14 at the local toyota parts store.

jebrone1

How do you clean the drop in filter?

stever

Step by step instructions, complete with photos:

Cleaner Air from your Air Cleaner

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joffficer

I've used K&N's on four different cars/trucks. On my mustang (5.0) It made a difference I could feel and see in MPG. It was a panel(stock) then a 12" conical which made a much bigger difference. My '85 caprice got better MPG (1-2) and a little more kick at low rpms. My '95 Dodge Ram I'm not sure about because I bought it one week after I got the truck. I haven't bought a filter for it in 75k miles, though. My '93 toyota truck got better mileage and better 'feel'.
Most of these filters cost me $10-$25. I've bought them at swap meats and Ebay.... why not, if I have to I clean them and put them in! Cheaper then buying paper over time.

tntitan

I certainly can't tell any difference in any HP, MPG, or sound of the engine and that is exactly what I expected when I bought the K & N Filter. I only bought the filter to save money and it will accomplish that after the 4th year. Since I plan on driving the car for 10 years or more it seems like a no brainer. Just my opinion.

danili19

Hey everyone, I own a '96 Saturn SL2 (DOHC, 5-speed), and I'm planning on installing either an K&N or Injen short-ram intake system. My question is this...I know cold air intakes can suck up water and blow your engine, due to the fact that they're re-located to spots where water can easily be ingested. Is the same true for short-rams? Should I buy a deflector or a bypass valve for protection? Thanks!

arkainzeye

i wanted to hear ANY opinions on this air filter.

http://www.amsoil.com/products/ts.html

joffficer

and it's 15 years old! Although, I'm not sure I'd use foam on my cars/truck. When it breaks down it crumbles quickly. Amsoil has been around a long time so they probably make a good product. Of course Chevy was around a long time before the produced the Chevette, though
I use K&N's in my cars and truck. To me the cotton won't break apart like foam will.

obyone

of cotton gauze surrounded by foam acting as two filters vs. the single for K&N.

cpwingnut

Sorry to change the subject but this is a new product and I thought this MB was the most closely related one.

Has anyone seen or tried the new "as seen on tv" product called the Tornado? It is an airbreather insert that is supposed to cause a vortex of the incoming air supposedly creating a better air fuel mixture, thus improving performance and fuel milage. It sounds like a good theory, but does it actualy work?

It sells for $65-70us and seems a bit expensive for a tiny piece of stainless steel. They claim it increases HP by 20 ponies and a 20% increase in fuel mileage on certain cars. (wont beleive it till I see it) I'm a bit skeptical so was hoping someone had some insight. You can read about it at tornadofuelsaver.com

It seems too new to find one on E-Bay like joffficer suggested but that is a good idea for a k&n. I know I have a few from my old vehicles that I sold(kept the filter in case I bought the same kind of car).

joffficer

...about the tornados awhile ago. From what I remember they were more of a hoax than anything. Sort'a like those magnets that were supposed to align the fuel molecules. Some people say the K&N's are good for nothing also, but I have had good experiences with them.

stever

We lumped the Tornado in with The accessories to improve mileage and extend engine life discussion. There are also a couple of discussions in the archives - search on tornado. I think they are snake oil myself, but ymmv:

steve_ "Tornado Fuel Saver...Hype?!?!?" Jul 17, 2001 9:47am

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cpwingnut

I guess I will save my money on the Tornado thing. I am a huge skeptic on those "as seen on tv" products anyway. Thanks for your input.

obyone

in three of our company vans. We noticed, no increase in gas mileage, no additional power, no nothing.

joffficer

armtdm

I have used the Amsoil foam filters. Personally, based upon oil analysis results on several cars both the Amsoil and K&N fitlers are a huge waste of money. Both are a pain to clean and re-oil and after 2-3 years the Amsoil fell apart. Also, Between these and after market Frams, Purolators etc. the air fitlers that work the best in filtering out silicon are the OEM fitlers, believe it or not. They are better contstructed then most aftermarkets and seem to filter better.

Not true for oil fitlers but air filters I vote of OEM.

timz58

I have a 1994 32 Ft Winnebago motor home with a 454 Chevrolet Engine. The previous owner had a Banks Engineering Performance Exhaust System Installed. This consists of a tube header type exhaust, low restriction muffler and catalytic converter, 3-1/2" tail pipe, a transmission shift kit and a K&N Air Cleaner with a ram air setup. The intake air scoop is located low behind the grill in the motor home and I sincerely doubt that water through it would be a noticible problem. Years back, there were aftermarket water injection systems available that significantly increased engine power output. Ever notice how your cars seems to run better on a rainy night with that heavier, more dense air? I think to fully realize any increased potential from the K&N filter, it is necessary to do the whole maryanne with the induction/exhaust system. Anything you can do to increase air flow through the engine and decrease back pressure in the exhaust will result in greater efficiency and some HP gains. The Banks Advertised HP gain is 85 with about 120 lb. ft of additional torque. We had a similar MH before the Winne without the Banks system and there is a significant difference in pulling power,acceleration and about a 15% gain in fuel economy. I would imagine that the K&N without the other enhancements is a waste of money with insignificant gains.

boaz47

It seems to make more of a difference in different cars. Reading all of these posts and several of the Car mags a Cold air intake with a exhaust system only seems to work in some cars. I had a 2001 Saturn SL-2 and I replaced the breather hose from the valve cover to the intake tube with a small filter and a rubber cap. I had seen the K&N breather filter on the SPS aftermarket site. The suggestion was made that it would keep warm air exiting the valve area from entering the airstream to the Throttle Body. This car always got pretty good fuel milage so I couldn't tell if the breather filter was doing anything or not. But I could hold fifth gear a lot longer climbing the hill from work to home. I can not attest to the fact that this little trick did a thing for my HP. I put the breather filter on right after putting in a brand new clean air filter. The reasoning was sound however. When race car drivers are qualifying for positions at many of our race tracks around the US we always hear how the cars running in the morning have an advantage. If cooler air is not responsible then is it all in the heads of the racers and announcers at the tracks? Could it be that if your car or truck already has 200 to 300 HP you don't see much of an improvement but if you only have 100 to 150 it is easier to feel? I don't have the answer but I know that I more than likely will get a cone filter and route the air as far from the heat of the engine as I can. To me it seems that if a dirty filter causes less power and fuel milage because it is restricted? Then a filter that is less restrictive would work better. Drop in filters wouldn't seem to make a big difference because the surface that is filtered is about the same. A large cone has a larger area and would seem to provide more airflow. If it is all a marketing ploy then the marketing people have been very successful at marketing.

8u6hfd

There are applications where the Amsoil filter is only a single stage foam element. It flows better, but reduced filter performance compared to the multi-stage element. One example are the Golf filters.

K&N also as a "filter wrap" for certain filters, which I believe is basically a foam filter which prolongs the cleaning intervals even longer.

s76drvr

I've used a K/N air filter for years in 5 different vehicles. I've always been happy with their performance and cleaning isn't such a pain. I use the exsisting housing as tests have proven (Mustang SVO) that the open air from the motor decreased efficiency (cold air vs. hot air). The allegations, comparisons, war stories, etc. rear up from time to time so I guess hear we go again.

s76drvr

F150 World has been testing aftermarket fits and the claims of extra horsepower. The numbers that result reinterate the importance of COLD air and not heated engine air.

http://www.f150world.com/tenArticle.asp?sid=2&aid=31

bigorange30

a few weeks ago. I am rather disappointed in the performance so far. I did not get a gas mileage increase like I was hoping for. If there is a power increase, I don't notice it. I guess the only benefit I will get is not having to keep buying filters. Can anyone else share their experience? Is there something else I should do (<$100) to get improved mileage or performance?

tidester

Is there something else I should do (<$100) to get improved mileage or performance?</i>

I don't mean to be flippant, but the cheapest way to improve mileage is to ease up on the gas pedal! :-)

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obyone

Couple of performance mags had dyno'd these aftermarket filters. The results were the same for the various mags. 1 Hp increase with +or- 2HP variance. That tells a lot and kind of coincides with your results.

zueslewis

look at the big picture on K&N Filters - a couple of horsepower and maybe a few percentage points on mileage for $40, which is about $25 more than the OEM flat panel or conical filter. With your money, you never have to buy another $15-20 filter. That can't be a bad deal, so why pick it apart? K&N never states that you'll get 25% better mileage and 100 horsepower!

obyone

I'll be looking for the link when you're reading this. That K&N allows more air to flow along with more impurities than the stock filter. Is that a tradeoff you would be willing to live with? Dam now if I could only find that link.

stever

Read back a 100 posts or more and you'll find people questioning the quality of filtration vs paper filters. Then's there's the mess of recharging them vs. sticking a nice new clean paper filter in. And the chance of messing up the MAP. The EPA will certify the mpg claims of aftermarket devices too if asked - has K&N submitted the paperwork for verification?

you slipped in ahead of me, Obyone. I'll nose around for that thread.

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stever

lol, the whole discussion is mostly about filtration quality (not really, but lots to sift through).

How about an interesting post relating an email from K&N instead?

sascuderi Jan 2, 2001 6:49pm

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obyone

While the Magnusson-Moss Act is supposed to protect you against your warranty being voided, Click and Clack make a good point.

http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/2000/July/04.html

zueslewis

it's the statute I work under for declaring vehicles as "lemons" and warranties being in "breach".

The only exception to K&N's response I know of is that several manufacturers cry wolf, through their dealers, saying that the oil from the filters trashes the Mass Airflow Sensors on some cars. Ironically, Ford uses the same type filters, so does Pontiac and Chevrolet (Ram Air Trans Am and Z-28 SS) and most DaimlerChrysler dealers have a K&N display in the parts department. Give me a break.

ppbceb

Boy, am I glad I read these postings before I ran out and bought two for my Explorer and Ranger, both with the 4.0L V6 SOHC engine and use the same AIR filter.
Notice that I said the same AIR, not OIL filter!
I'm still ticked off that they don't use the same OIL filter!
I just wish that I read about the Tornado before I ran out and bought two for the above as I was looking for increased GAS mileage, not interested in HP.
Believe me when I tell you that I will use these bulletin boards for research going forward as I have gotten quite an education here from some well experienced folks.
Please keep those postings coming!!!