Is Lexus The Standard of the World?

maximafan

I'll bump to that!!

maximafan

Be careful now! Your snobbery is really starting to show. :mad:

drfill

Color me confused, but I didn't take you for a closet Lexican! :surprise:

Building your love off of the LX, no less, not one of their best efforts, in my opinion.

Anywho, my take is the following:

1. "Standard of the World" is a perception, a legacy, a heritage. The best luxury marque, over the last century, is Mercedes. And it's not really close! But the story doesn't end there.

2. The best luxury marque, in the best luxury market, over the last almost 20 years has been Lexus, and THAT has not really been close either!

3. I see a lot of posters keep throwing up, in desperation, how this company and that company sell a lot of cars outside of the US, and have global recognition for this and that.

Obviously, Lexus' approach has been if they're gonna be a bear, be a Grizzly Bear, and attack the biggest and best market with their best product. They have approached market domination. In any measure. Sales. Market recognition. Marketing. Quality. Owner retention. Customer satisfaction. Sales per dealership. The list goes on. :shades:

My assessment of the market, right now, is Mercedes makes some great product, and has much more appealing product than BMW. The new corporate grille being ushered in by C-Class is pretty lame, doh.

BMW makes great driving machines, but outside of the 5-series, I wouldn't be caught dead in one. Pretty nasty stuff! The X3 looks like a Forester. The 7 is a lost cause. The 3 was quite a let down. Quite homely. Z4 is clumsy, at best. And their interiors are worse than their exteriors.

Unless you have to drive a stick, I don't see the appeal. I don't get it.

Audi is a non-factor. Audi can sell all of the cars it wants in Turkey, but it doesn't sell here. And this is the cream of the crop.

I close with an analogy.

Who knows who Doyle Brunson is?

He is, maybe, the best poker player in the world, or at least the most highly regarded. That's Mercedes.

Who knows who Johnny Chan is?

He is a 10-time bracelet winner, and is probably the best player after Brunson. He would be Lexus.

BMW is Phil Hellmuth.

Anyone know who Chip Reese is? :confuse:

He's the best cash player in the world, allegedly. He is Audi. Why? Because when the tournament starts, and the lights are on, he's nowhere to be found. He cannot, or will not, seize the moment, the spotlight. A playground legend.

Some win the biggest games, on the biggest stage, and become media darlings for their courage and perseverance.

Some don't win big games. Or haven't won a big game since high school. :sick:

The US is the Super Bowl, the World Series, Wimbeldon, you name it. It is the place to be. The game you want to win more than any other.

I count 3 winners. All 3 win. They just have 3 very different ways of doing it. And they all push each other to greatness. 'Preciate dat!

DrFill

gagrice

You can look back and find my wife's treatment by her Lexus dealer. They are gangsters and highway robbers. Hope you have better luck when your warranty runs out than she has. With only two Lexus dealers in San Diego and the 2nd one 40 miles away I will pass on buying another Lexus.

rockylee

True, but Lexus, does bring a tough crowd of defenders.

-Rocky

gagrice

I think the LS460 would be a very nice car to have. I would not buy from our local dealer after the way they tried to rip my wife off. The GM dealers in San Diego I have dealt with are head and shoulders above the Lexus & Toyota dealers.

grylexis300

folks,

just pick up a copy of consumer reports and you will see that lexus/toyota and other japanese automakers are absolutely dominating the ratings. and let's face it. consumer reports is arguably the most fair and UNBIASED assessment of automobiles and trucks today.

and i am sick of reading these retarded posts about how lexus is not a global name and the eurotrash heads don't buy toyota's etc...the real show is in north america and the united states especially. so you might as well forget about your futile lexus hating posts.

this has been stated many times over. say what you want about lexus being a MB wannabe this and that. toyota rolled out lexus in 1990 and everyone laughed their butts off. in such a SHORT PERIOD OF TIME they are now absolutely kicking the crap out of BMW and MB in north american sales. the new LS is the epitome of how badly beaten the german automakers are.

all the lexus haters continue to beat their chests over robust BMW 3 series sales failing to realize that this diminutive car is the only car in the BMW lineup outside of the X3 that most people in this world can afford. we should hope that the little bmw sells better than some cars in the lexus lineup like the IS or the acura TL for example. ditto for the C-class. (i don't think the c-class is outselling very many types of japanese cars including the IS250/350). i'd be shocked. especially when every magazine on earth puts the c-class in almost last place on every comparo. the c-class is lucky they put cadillacs and jaguars in some of these comparos.

what a joke

grylexis300

I think the LS460 would be a very nice car to have. I would not buy from our local dealer after the way they tried to rip my wife off. The GM dealers in San Diego I have dealt with are head and shoulders above the Lexus & Toyota dealers.

and you wouldn't get ripped off trying to buy the flagship mercedes S class or bmw 7 series??? they could lower the price by 5-10K and it would still be a rip-off compared to the old LS430 model. goodness

GM dealers all over the country are head and shoulders better for you because they have been GIVING their cars away now for years. holy smokes. they can't even GIVE THEM AWAY. have you seen the losses posted for GM every year?? wow. you don't read the business section much do you??

grylexis300

You and I must be looking at a different IS250. That is a butt ugly car and looks cheap. I would not even consider driving one. If I buy a sports car it will be a Porsche. Heck Mitsubishi builds a sedan that will blow the doors off any IS built. Why waste all the money on a nameplate?

mitsubishi like subaru builds a TIN CAN that can go fast. FROM THE STEREO SYSTEM TO THE DOOR HANDLES, MITSUBISHI BUILDS NOTHING CLOSE TO A LEXUS. what a complete joke.

and for over 100,000 dollars you can buy a porsche that is better than the IS350 which costs 43K. you are a clown.

grylexis300

I agree. Lexus is known mostly in North America and has had a hard time establishing itself globally, especially in Europe. Also, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz are higher tiers globally based not only due to global sales (something like 5 to 1), but their images and heritages, and price points. Lexus has only entered the lower $100,000 price point recently with the limited LS600 compared to Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz that have several models greater than $100,000 including, V10s, V12s and W12. Also, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz have highly recognized performance arms around the world (Quattro, AMG, and M) that have established cult status among true automobile enthusiasts. And Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz have storied racing heritages where even today they are still dominant powers (i.e., R8 and R10). Both Mercedes-Benz and Audi are over 100 years old with a long list of achievements along with BMW. All three continue to excel in providing cutting-edge technology and quality just as Lexus thinks it does. It will take Lexus lot more than selling hybrids or adding gimmicks to be considered so-called "standard of the world." Plus, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz were long standing companies that continue to operate with a high degree of independence (yes, that includes Audi and Mercedes-Benz - check your facts if you don't think so). Lexus, is trying to do the same by establishing a performance arm (F) and by trying to get into racing. It needs credibility beyond its nursing home drivers

all that heritage and all three german companies continue to get beat on the grand est of stages here in the united states. i don't think there are enough delusional average joes like you raving about the merits of 100,000 dollar german cars. this is truly funny stuff.

if the japanese automakers were truly as delusional as you they would be selling nothing today. the core of their business does not cater to 0.1% of the world's population.

is there anything gimmicky about lexus dominating JD power & assoc most dependable car list every year?? they can put as many gimmicks on these bulletproof cars while the no gimmick audi or mercedes sits in the shop. lol by the way if your definition of quality is bmw and all german cars running dozens of spots below lexus and infiniti on this list then so be it. all this ranking and consumer reports tell us is the german cars spend more quality time in the shop. what a joke

nursing home drivers?? that's why most bmw's, MB's and audi's sold throughout the world are automatics and i'd be willing to bet that a lot of them DO NOT have sport suspensions.

grylexis300

You are wrong about sales at Lexus. Their number one selling vehicle the RX is down almost 10% so far this year. Unless they made a big jump in April. The IS series are down about the same percentage. I have almost enough fingers and toes to count the sales of GS cars. The new LS460 is doing well as it should. It is a vast improvement over the last decade of LS offerings. Lexus may as well get rid of the SC they have ruined it for sure. They don't sell enough for each dealer to have one a year. The SC400 was a beautiful car, that now looks CHEAP

i have enough fingers and toes to count all 5 series and 7 series sales along with every MB outside of the cheap class. what a joke

let's look at this another way. 7 series and all E and S class getting absolutely dusted by LS and ES sales.

the ES, IS and RX are just dusting the 3 series and X3 in sales across north america for sure and in other parts of the world. why that sounds unfair. 3 lexus vehicles against 2 bmws. well, what else does bmw have under 60,000 dollars?? the X3 is just a nice attempt at trying to emulate a lexus lineup. what a joke. audi is not even worth a mention and neither is the cheap class that really needs a style overhaul. what a true yawner.

hopefully the lexus LF cars flop for germany's sake. just looking at the pictures on the lexus website has got to have all of germany shaking in their pants. they can't even fully redesign the c-class and the audi A4's. they still look like cookie cutter cars and the 3 series?? these bmws for the most part are still a cookie cutter car lineup. what a joke.

see what acura did to the MDX?? now that is what you call redesign germany. MB will always lead the pack of gut less wonders especially with their cheap class styling.

dino001

hopefully the lexus LF cars flop for germany's sake. just looking at the pictures on the lexus website has got to have all of germany shaking in their pants. they can't even fully redesign the c-class and the audi A4's. they still look like cookie cutter cars and the 3 series?? these bmws for the most part are still a cookie cutter car lineup. what a joke.

Wow! Such a passion - I didn't know Lexus had such passionate fans They're not exactly known as such.

Lets be serious. You seriously want us to believe that ES/Camry, IS, LS, RX/Highlander are styling leaders? Don't get me wrong - Lexus manufactures competent and reliable vehicles that in terms of their strengths (mentioned reliability, production technology, dealer service perhaps) could be used as the standard of the world. But you can't seriously say they styling, handling, or originality are their fortes. If you want to know how the next LS is gonna look like, just look at 2-year old Mercedes S. ES is too close to Camry that it could be seen with a naked eye. IS seems to have everything that a young wealthy individual, who can't really drive too well may want.

Toyotas are perfect appliance cars for people who don't care about cars. Lexi are pretty much the same, but those are pro-style stainless-finish convection w/NASA tech inside, appliances. The premise remains the same. Turn it on, it works, every time. Does its job flawlessly, everything is within acceptable parameters, makes you feel warm and fuzzy. Just don't try to take it on a real mountain road in a rain or snow, as you would not with any other "normal" car.

There is nothing wrong with that - plenty of people who want and need exactly that. For everybody their own.

lemko

I didn't think much of the IS300 when it debuted several years ago. It had very little room in the back seat, an intrument panel that reminded me of my Mom's old 1987 Dodge Omni, and I often mistook them for a VW Golf at a distance. I would refer to the car as the Lexus Cimmaron - as much a mistake to Lexus as the Cimmaron was to Cadillac.

The newer car is better, but still suffers from a steep price tag and a cramped back seat.

louiswei

IS seems to have everything that a young wealthy individual, who can't really drive too well may want.

I would re-phrase this statement a little bit:

IS seems to have everything that a young well-to-do individual, who wants a car that offers the best balance between luxury and performance and doesn't really care for a manual may want.

According to Allstate, Jeff Burton's personal car is a mini-van so are you saying that all 3-series drivers drive better than Jeff Burton? :P

But you can't seriously say they styling, handling, or originality are their fortes.

Styling is subjective and to me, I like the current Lexus styling the best out of all luxury brands. Handling will never be Lexus' strong suit and probably never would be due to their design philosophy. As for originality, besides the original LS who did they copy from? All their other offerings look pretty "original" to me and the new L-finess is way better than the Bangelized BMW.

louiswei

I often mistook them for a VW Golf at a distance.

Uh...VW Golf is a hatch and IS300 is a sedan. Maybe it's time for you to have your eyes check out or get that one extra set of glasses?

Agree the IS300 is not worthy of the Lexus badge. In Japan it carries the Toyota badge and I frankly think that's what Toyota should have done in the first place, bring it over like the way it is. Lexus was desperate to have a 3-series fighter in its lineup and the IS300 is the result of that desperation. However, it's good that they finally got it right with the 2nd gen IS.

dino001

wants a car that offers the best balance between luxury and performance and doesn't really care for a manual

Well, ES is an obvious plush Camry clone - just put them side by side. Of course they copy themselves, but they could have done a little better job in differentiating. Even IS has tailights like Camry, too. The most original look from outside is probably GS and RX.

louiswei

Well, ES is an obvious plush Camry clone

It's very obvious that Lexus is having no shame to let people know that ES is a rebadged and glorified Camry. Guess what, it sells, I guess at the end of the day that's what matters. Rumor has it that the next gen ES is going RWD and away from its Camry route.

Even IS has tailights like Camry, too

So every candy-bar style tail lights looks pretty much the same. What's your point here?

IS:


ES:


Camry:

dino001

Not much point other than other sister-brand companies (Acura/Honda, VW/Audi, even Chevy/Pontiac) do much better job of differentiating styling of their brands, even if the mechanical components used are the same or similar. Lexus doesn't even do that. Nothing wrong with that, especially if you like Camry, except I just don't like it. Knowing you're buying a souped up Camry is one thing, but if the mfr is too lazy to make some effort to let you forget just for a minute - it's another.

louiswei

Knowing you're buying a souped up Camry is one thing, but if the mfr is too lazy to make some effort to let you forget just for a minute - it's another.

Go sit in a Camry then a ES350 and tell me you think those 2 are the same car. Then try it with GM's rebadged works... I rest my case.

fintail

So are you a Lexus dealer, or is your dad?

If you don't have the world, you don't have much. You can spend all day in the middle of London, Paris, Berlin, etc and maybe see one or two Lexus.

nippononly

is still the "Class of the World". I say that since I don't think there is one Standard of the World any more. The world is mixing it up.

But in sheer diversity of product, from lux to everyday driver to out and out sport (with a little help from AMG), it's Mercedes. In styling, it's Mercedes. In engineering innovation (except hybrids, but check out the diesel advancements) it's Mercedes.

douglasr

Lexus will go down as the finest marketing success ever...being originally "dumped" in the American market at $38,500 a copy...and NOT available in Japan, hence skirting World Trade Organisation rules with respect to product dumping. It was designed with the American market in mind. In 2006 Lexus moved 322,434 vehicles in America, 26,000 a month. When compared to the other brands, the story is sadly clear.

Mark/2006 sales/monthly
=======================
Audi/90,116/6500
BMW/274,432/24,000
Cadillac/227,014/18,000
Jaguar/20,683/1,200
Lexus/322,434/26,000
Lincoln/120,476/10,000
Mercedes/247,934/14,000
Porsche/34,227/2,700
=========================
Source: Automotive News

So the tide has turned, and Lincoln is fifth, Cadillac fourth, etc. Cadillac and Chrysler are at least readying alternatives to fight back. Lincoln's Mark S will help, but being based off a Volvo may not win conquest sales as intended. Imperial, green lighted for production, may yet win over a few disgruntled Cadillac and Lincoln owners, but winning those driving Lexus might be harder to do...yet possible. Cadillac chased Packard for decades and won. Now they are back in that position, and so is Lincoln having briefly defeated Cadillac. Both Cadillac, Lincoln and any new Imperial will have to chase Lexus...just as the brands once did with Packard, but the underdog sometimes wins. The game isn't over yet.

But is Lexus, or rather, the Lexusii---cars and trucks---a "standard of the world"? No...not yet, but they are on the verge. Only their recent iterations offer something unique, otherwise they have been clones of others work. And it is far easier to reverse engineer a car, than create it whole cloth initially. At worst their cars are boring, at best utilitarian luxury getting the job done. But few cars in their range excite...

...even Japanese buy Mercedes and BMW when they get the money to do so, rather than Lexus, which sells poorly in Japan.

...at the end of the day Lexus is a great American success story, a chapter that could have been written by Lincoln, Cadillac, or Imperial, for that matter, even a revived Packard. None dared do so, but Toyota did. A round of applause please.

DouglasR

bumpy

Lexus will go down as the finest marketing success ever...being originally "dumped" in the American market at $38,500 a copy...and NOT available in Japan, hence skirting World Trade Organisation rules with respect to product dumping.

The original LS400 was sold in Japan as the Toyota Celsior, and the ES250 was a Toyota Windom. Same exact car, just a different name, and they sold for less in Japan than in the United States (using the currency conversion rates of the time).

douglasr

Lexus may have been sold in Japan under different names, which they have done for many years since, but equipment levels were not the same as I understand it, and the price was exclusive of taxes, making it more expensive in the driveway by the time you paid for the tags, taxes, etc. Despite the truth, they were still not marketed as Lexus brand, creating that for America...and if I am not wrong, offering unique equipment levels for America for the price. And they still sell more of them here than they do in Japan! (But then they sell more Buicks in China than America...go figure.)

DouglasR.

bumpy

I think the midlevel trim on the Celsior was the same as what we got on the LS400. I'll go home and dig out the details tonight.

andres3

Which Toyota dealers should be avoided in San Diego???

It seems like there's one every 3 miles in San Diego.

bumpy

http://specs.amayama.com/

A specification
4.55m yen
Front fog lamp
ABS (Antilock brake system) optional
Air conditioner Full automatic
Wood panel
Cruise control
Centralized door lock
Power window
Steering wheel telescopic
Steering wheel tilt
Power front seat
Rear ELR3 point seat belt
Side impact bar
Airbag (Driver)
Audio deck AM/FM radio equipped cassette player

B specification
5.3m yen
Sunroof / Moonroof optional
Front fog lamp
Front spoiler
Rear or roof spoiler
ABS (Antilock brake system)
TCS (Traction control system)
Air conditioner Full automatic
Wood panel
Cruise control
Centralized door lock
Power window
Steering wheel telescopic
Steering wheel tilt
Leather steering wheel
Power front seat
Leather seat optional
Rear ELR3 point seat belt
Side impact bar
Airbag (Driver)
Audio deck AM/FM radio equipped cassette player
CD-player Connected equipment

C specification
5.5m yen
Sunroof / Moonroof optional
Front fog lamp
Front spoiler optional
ABS (Antilock brake system)
TCS (Traction control system)
Air conditioner Full automatic
Wood panel
Cruise control
Centralized door lock
Power window
Steering wheel telescopic
Steering wheel tilt
Leather steering wheel
Power front seat
Leather seat optional
Rear ELR3 point seat belt
Side impact bar
Airbag (Driver)
Audio deck AM/FM radio equipped cassette player
CD-player Connected equipment

C specification F package
6.2m yen
Sunroof / Moonroof optional
Front fog lamp
Front spoiler optional
ABS (Antilock brake system)
TCS (Traction control system)
Air conditioner Dual air conditioner
Wood panel
Cruise control
Centralized door lock
Power window
Steering wheel telescopic
Steering wheel tilt
Leather steering wheel
Power front seat
Power rear seat
Leather seat optional
Rear ELR3 point seat belt
Side impact bar
Airbag (Driver)
Audio deck AM/FM radio equipped cassette player
CD-player Connected equipment

reality2

I have a lime green LC which gets 100 mpg with its hybrid flat 2 ethanol fuelled solar powered regenerative braked running on water and air mixed with toothpaste engine which has 600 hp and does 200 mph and beats an Audi R8 round the Nurburgring AND seats 20 people with enough space for their luggage and can cross the Antarctic in 2 days.
Nothing beats the hybrid-Colgate-drive in my car, it has negative CO2 emissions, it reverses climate change, like all amazing super-dooper Lexus do unlike that rebadged Trabant crap from the land of Sauerkraut and schnitzel, which kill babies and elderly people.

Oh yeah, well God personally made my Toyota/Lexus Echo/Yaris for me ... and sent it down to me on a gold cloud, that rains gum drops. He has blessed Toylexus and they will rule the earth with their triplet clones of Hitler, Jet Lee and Chuck Norris. Toylexus will smite the mighty Audi and MB, eat and then poop out 4,000,000 prius's with my picture on them. So, FACED!

jkr2106

See ToyoLex is always on the cutting edge

grylexis300

Lets be serious. You seriously want us to believe that ES/Camry, IS, LS, RX/Highlander are styling leaders? Don't get me wrong - Lexus manufactures competent and reliable vehicles that in terms of their strengths (mentioned reliability, production technology, dealer service perhaps) could be used as the standard of the world. But you can't seriously say they styling, handling, or originality are their fortes. If you want to know how the next LS is gonna look like, just look at 2-year old Mercedes S. ES is too close to Camry that it could be seen with a naked eye. IS seems to have everything that a young wealthy individual, who can't really drive too well may want

and if you want to know what the next C class is gonna look like just take a look at the current car. same with the next 3 series. last time i checked the core looks haven't changed since the late 90's. what styling.

styling is subjective. if the toyotas and hondas were all that ugly you wouldn't have the MASSES buying these cars. i certainly won't buy an ugly car. there is nothing ugly to me about the IS300-350. and from a handling standpoint the IS lineup is no M3 but it isn't chopped liver either. it is no boat. and bmw was sucking IS350 and G35 dust to boot until they hit the panick button and suddenly said it is time for a 335 only a mere 1-2 years after they introduced the new 330i. now that, is a complete joke. you don't see infiniti and lexus scrambling around quite that much trying to up the ante. if the best handling car in the world is so darn superior to anything lexus has got why the need for the new 335i?? the dust was definitely bothering someone in germany.

why don't you all check out the new lexus LF cars on the lexus website if you haven't already. all this talk about rebadged camry's and altezzas is tiring. they got a whole new lineup that they are working on and some folks want to continue cutting up the ES350 which outsells every bmw on the planet outside of the 3ers.

the LF lineup does not look like a mercedes or a bmw. if you don't like the styling then so be it but i can guarantee you this, MANY OTHERS will. look at how many LS,RX, ES, and even IS vehicles toyota has sold. there aren't that many people out there with bad taste.

grylexis300

Not much point other than other sister-brand companies (Acura/Honda, VW/Audi, even Chevy/Pontiac) do much better job of differentiating styling of their brands, even if the mechanical components used are the same or similar. Lexus doesn't even do that. Nothing wrong with that, especially if you like Camry, except I just don't like it. Knowing you're buying a souped up Camry is one thing, but if the mfr is too lazy to make some effort to let you forget just for a minute - it's another.

that is funny, audi's look all alike to me.

so the IS is now a souped up what?? the LS is a souped up mercedes??

the GS is a souped up avalon right??

maybe

the RX is a souped up highlander?? they don't look alike to me though. plus, the RX has a automatic back gate opener which you can't get on highlanders or any darn chevy. i'll take a souped up toyota any day.

the LF lineup lexus is coming out with. that is what?? a carbon copy of what mercedes benz and VW is working on these days??

maximafan

It's a shame that people want to make a generalized assumption about people and the type of car they drive. I've owned six cars in my lifetime of driving. Those cars were a
1979 Mustang(my high school car), a 1988 Mazda RX-7, 1995 Nissan Altima, 1999 Nissan Pathfinder, a 2002 Nissan Maxima SE(was totalled in a wreck back in July), and now I'm driving the Lexus RX. As you can see, I've driven a pretty diverse cross-section of cars over the past 25 years.

So I have to respectfully disagree with you and
say that I do care about cars. Why should I get pidgeon-holed because I'm driving a Lexus now? I have never understood why people have to diss other people's choices in cars. Frankly, I find it a bit rude!

maximafan

I couldn't agree more, grylexis300. You know,
I'm the type of person that likes different things about all the models that are out on the
road today, particularly BMW, Mercedes, Acura, Lexus, Nissan, Infiniti, and Mazda. They all have good things or nice features, while one or the other may be missing some feature that I'd really like to have. That doesn't mean that I'm gonna bash somebody that might be driving another brand of car that's not on my favorite's list. I just think that's so rude for people to insult other people over these silly inane things.

The long and the short of it is people pick the brand of car they drive for their own personal reasons or desires. It doesn't mean they have more "credit" than "brains" and other such insulting things I have seen on these boards. Some of the people on these boards need to get a reality check!

maximafan

To each his own.

maximafan

You know what they say about so-called "assumptions", dino! (LOL) :shades:

gagrice

All that paid advertising for Lexus and I found one thing I agree with you on. The new MDX is not worthy of the Acura name.

see what acura did to the MDX??

As far as the LS430 it is so far removed from the original goal of Lexus, it is no wonder it was a flop. What can you say good about the RX. It was designed to feed the ego's of suburban wives. If I was keeping up with the Joneses I would get the LX and have a real utility vehicle not a poor handling ugly street CUV. I won't waste any more cyber space on the IS & GS. The market will take care of that.

gagrice

Dealers I have experienced poor customer service with. the rest I have no experience with.
Bob Baker Lexus
Over charging for LS400 repair, plus diagnosing problems that did not exist. List too long to repeat.
Kearney Mesa Toyota
Poor sales staff
Poway Toyota
Poor sales staff
Toyota of El Cajon
Sales staff OK, service department incompetent. Could not fix brakes on ex-wife's Camry. Firestone did the job after I had spent over $800 on front end parts and labor at Toyota.
Also clutch went out at 11k miles on 1994 Toyota PU and not covered by warranty. $900 to repair.

rockylee

Be nice fintail....

-Rocky

rockylee

Mercedes, still makes fine cars but Lexus, has caught up with them in most area's and passed them in a few others. I think the world will eventually cave in a decade and buy Lexuses as well.

-Rocky

rockylee

douglasr,

I didn't know Lincoln, had a Mark S model coming out unless you were referring to the MKS ?

-Rocky

rockylee

All that paid advertising for Lexus and I found one thing I agree with you on. The new MDX is not worthy of the Acura name.

What's wrong now with the MDX ???? :surprise:

Rocky

P.S. I agree with the rest........

louiswei

I think grylexis300 was praising Acura and the new MDX with that statement...

As far as the LS430 it is so far removed from the original goal of Lexus

So what's the original goal of Lexus? Can you enlighten us on that? The LS430 was a flop only in the last several years of its model cycle. The reason of that is that it was outdated and needed a major overhaul. I do believe that the LS460 is couple years late to the party but at least it showed up and is now kicking a**es.

What can you say good about the RX

Let's see, how about...

- The first every cross-over SUV.
- RX puts Toyota/Lexus as the pioneer of the newly established cross-over market.
- Best selling luxury SUV.
- Best selling SUV in the Lexus lineup.
- Forced other luxury manufactures into the luxury cross-over market to ante up Lexus.

If those aren't good then I don't know what is...

It was designed to feed the ego's of suburban wives.

So suburban wives don't deserve to have their own kind of vehicle? I would love to buy my wife a nice-looking RX once I "made it". LX and RX serve totally different kind of purpose, If you don't get it by now then all I can say is...join the 21st century, pops.

I won't waste any more cyber space on the IS & GS. The market will take care of that.

Good. Let's let the market speak for itself. Apparently you are so far removed from the current market trend so you have no idea what you were talking about.

dino001

You completely misunderstood me. If you track carefuly my post, I tried to make a small joke (admittedly based on a stereotype) at someone's passionate rant that was calling everything other than his reveared Lexus "cookie cutter" or a "joke".

I have no problem with you or milion other people driving Lexus, nor have I any problem with their reasons or motivations. I would say this, though - if you like Lexus cause you like its luxury, styling, reliability or "good balance" as someone's mentiones, then who am I to say anything. However, if you honestly believe that it's the best handling best looking vehicle on the road, then I might say you should get out on a street more or check into a driving school, cause nobody else, not even Lexus engineers believes their car handles best. .

I find their models unattractive in their respective price ranges for reasons stated already. I do appreciate why others like them, though. Just not me. And that's all I'm saying.

andres3

Okay, good, based on your list of Toyota Dealers you've dealt with... I can safely say that the Mission Valley one might be OK for Toyota. Also... poor sales staff isn't necessarily the end of the world, as long as they have a good internet manager!

andres3

Also, there's Bob Baker Toyota in Lemon Grove, and one by all the Hoehn dealerships futher north. Isn't there a Toyota by all the Mossi dealerships by HWY 5 near Balboa?. They are everywhere!

nwng

that is very true, the last yota i bought was via their internet mgr. In and out in less than an hour. If I look at the tmv look at how much other's are paying (ie, do research), why would i want to spend a couple hours haggling with a sales person? They knew less about the car than me anyways.

gagrice

I was into Bob Baker Toyota briefly. The salesman I talked to was pleasant. I just do not trust any of the Bob Baker dealerships. The Bob Baker Chevrolet next to their Lexus dealership tried to pull a bait and switch on my daughter. Luckily I was the finance department and she had to get me involved. They were not pleased when I pulled the trade-in out of the deal an wrote them a check for the car at the negotiated price.

I agree that dealing with the Internet Manager is the best way to buy a new vehicle.

lemko

...I don't know if I can blame Lexus, but there are a lot of ratty-looking Lexi on my way to work. I just saw an original GS300 that looked like it belonged on the set of Mad Max. I remember these cars when they were new and didn't look half bad. The only thing I didn't like was the very busy taillamp cluster. However, when the clear cover gets cloudy with age, it looks extremely bad. The sleek SC400 coupes age badly with poor repaints, crumbling leather interiors, and cloudy headlamp covers. Old ES300s look almost as bad as aging Camries - cloudy headlamp assemblies and other associated woes. The LS400 age far more gracefully despite the maladies that come with age. I think old Mercedes hold up the best. They develop a pleasant patina while others just look beat.

nippononly

The thing about old Lexi is that they tend to last long enough that their value falls to the point where people won't invest in interior, paint, or body repairs. The leather in a lot of the very old Lexi looks like crap after 15 years, the LS400 being the notable exception. If you want to see just how awful leather can look after more than a decade, just look at almost any older Acura. Yikes. Ditto paint.

Mercedes and Volvo are much much better in both of these regards.

gagrice

I think much of that has to do whether the car is under cover. Our LS400 is in the garage whenever we are not driving it. The paint and leather are very nice after 18 years. We are still way under 100k miles also. With proper maintenance I would expect it to be in good shape at 25 years old. Not worth anything except to us. I would not trade it for a 10 year newer Lexus. Most I see are trashed by uncaring owners. It is the American way. Only keeping a car 8 years (the average) seems so wasteful.