Is Lexus The Standard of the World?

rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
edited March 2014 in Lexus

Guys, can you believe the "Gadgetology" Lexus, keeps bringing to our market. I think I just found my dream vehicle. One that I will probably not be able to afford, but it is "eye candy". I gotta show my wife this superb automobile.

Well Lexus, is probably the best and are probably the "Standard of the World"

That is the topic question. Is Lexus, being #1 for many years now the new "Standard of the World" ? ;)



  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It may be in the USA. The rest of the World hardly knows it exists. Lexus only has one real luxury model the LS460. It is nice, I will say that. Most reviews I have read say it does not handle as well as the competition from BMW & MB. I think the reliability sells it more than any other feature. I would never buy one expecting it to last like our 1990 LS400. Too expensive to maintain all the gadgets.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Where is the LX 570 going to be made and how much ?

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think all top end Lexi are built in Japan. I think the build the cheapo RX, ES and GS in NA.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I assumed they would build this one in San Antonio ?

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not a chance. They only build their halo vehicles in Japan. The LX470 and new someday LX570 are their show vehicles. They would not trust US to assemble them. The only reason they are assembling the Tundra in TX is to tap that big truck market.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I see.....The LX570 like the LS460 are fine automobiles. So fine I want one now-grin That is a unrealistic want as I'm sure this baby will top out in the $70's :sick:

    I know I have expensive taste but the "Gadgetology" is useful and yes they are buildng fine cars. As far as being better than BMW or Mercedes ???? I would take a Lexus, over a Bimmer or Merc. ;)

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The LX470 still has a Solid Rear axle. I mean come on move into the 21st century and design a heavy Duty IRS set up.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    a heavy duty IRS? No such thing! There's a reason non-streetified Jeeps run on solid axles. :-)

    Rocky, Caddy ads of the 50s notwithstanding, I think the standard of the world has been and still is Mercedes. Yes, the Chrysler thing dragged them down a decade ago and they had some bad years, but they still make the fastest street-legal car from a volume carmaker don't they? Not to mention I think they have by far the most prestige, and such a diverse line-up that Lexus has tried to emulate them for years.

    I am all for the Lexus line as a profit-maker for Toyota, and I think Lexi are very good vehicles, but they can't do sporty to save their lives, while MB covers both sides of the spectrum in every class.

    BTW, I know that Lexus is repeatedly number 1 in things like sales experience and reliability, build quality, etc, on the JD Power lists. Is that what you were referring to with the #1 remark? There are certainly other areas where Lexus does not traditionally rise to #1.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    I agree with the comments made by gagrice in post 2. Lexus is a "poor man's" car (i.e. reliability is the primary selling point with good handling and performance) and in no way the standard for the world. True automobile enthusiasts still run with BMW for performance, handling and style.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    a heavy duty IRS? No such thing! There's a reason non-streetified Jeeps run on solid axles.

    Ford, Nissan and then Land Rover would disagree. The Range rover has been using a HD IRS setup that can tow almost 8,000 lbs for four years with no problems. Ford has been using IRS on the expedition for a while now and Nissan does it on a couple of their SUVs too.

    There are only three places left where a Solid axle out does a Independent set up.

    1. Hard Core rock crawling. By hard core I mean the custom Tub chassis rock buggies.

    2. Hard Core drag racing when the cars are doing sub 10 second passes in the quarter. The imports proved back in the 90s with Supras, RX-7s and 300ZXs what IRS setups could handle sub 10 second passes but from a safety stand point solid axles are better.

    3. Really heavy duty hauling or towing that full size pick up trucks do. A solid axle is just cheaper to engineer for that kind of work which makes more sense in the highly competive light pick up market. Also for goose neck trailers a Solid axle is a must for many reasons.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    BTW, I know that Lexus is repeatedly number 1 in things like sales experience and reliability, build quality, etc, on the JD Power lists. Is that what you were referring to with the #1 remark? There are certainly other areas where Lexus does not traditionally rise to #1.

    Yes all factors inluded. I think sales volume, reliability, build quality, performance, are all important factors.

    I think one can make a strong case for Lexus. Sporting ? Well check out the IS 350 and IS 500. The GS, is pretty sporting. ;)

    Mercedes, BMW, are both great automobiles but from a reliability and build quality stand point they have let's say some "grey area's" :blush:

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Dude! Lexus is good at making cars that go very fast in a straight line, like the IS350 and the GS. They also make very competent and luxurious cars. But when it comes to performance they are usually roundly beaten by BMW and edged by Mercedes. I use slalom testing as my standard of reference there, but when the mags test them on road courses the results are usually the same.

    Me, I have driven the 325i, the C230, and the IS250, all sticks, and I would take the Lexus for its unique set of qualities (best stick shift of the lot, and my favorite interior among the three, the Germans are so DRAB about everything, not to mention that Toyota reliability and resale). But I understand why the press and the enthusiasts still rank the MB and BMW more highly.

    Perhaps in order to continue this discussion, you should really spell out what you consider the criteria to be for the one automaker called the "standard of the world".

    (Then we will all go around the mulberry tree debating every aspect of it for the next 200 posts! :-P And if I may toss my $0.02 into the discussion early, I don't think sales volume should be among the criteria. "Standard of the world" says to me the one that all other carmakers look to, if not for aspiration then at least for inspiration)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    From the looks of the latest from Lexus I would say they still have spies in the design rooms at Mercedes. They started out trying to copy MB and from the looks of the latest offerings are sticking with that winning program. Japanese car makers have NEVER been leaders in design.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well how can you not include sales volume in the discussion to rate Lexus ??? If you rate every detail on a bar of 1-10 like some car magazines do then Lexus, is clearly the winner. Handling you'd give BMW a 10, Mercedes a 9 and Lexus an 8. Straightline Performance, Ride Comfort, build quality, reliability, exterior quality, interior quality, exterior styling, interior design, fit and finish, "gadgetology", price, my god we could go on and on if we nit picked every detail and the more we examined the details the further Lexus, would rank above Mercedes and BMW as probably the new Standard of the World. ;)

    Just my $0.02.....only 199 more posts to go !!! :P :P

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well let's just say they have made a better Mercedes, as the new Merc's have gotten a litte ugly. The RX 330 is the only one that needs a new look outside of that every Lexus, is "eye candy" when it comes to design. ;)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    In my eyes all but the LS460 is less than good looking. They are just rebadged Toyotas. The LS is the only real luxury car in the lineup. You are right about the RX. It looks like a cheap imitation Faberge egg rolling down the street. UGLY to the max. They sell a ton of them to suburbanites with more credit than brains.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I would say the GS is a real luxury car too - boy is it nice to drive. Unfortunately, Lexus pretends it's sporty, and alas it is not.

    Lexus has too many rebadged Toyotas these days, what with the heavy preponderance of trucks and SUVs. I would like to see some of them go bye-bye, although the ES and the RX would probably need to stay as the sales foundation of the brand. As for RX, it would have been nice if Toyota had evolved the styling for the current model. It has had almost the same look for too long. And as for ES, don't forget that Toyota has already announced that the current model is the last rebadged Camry for this model line - the 2010 ES will be a RWD midsize sedan with no sharing with Toyota-badged cars. I think as long as this change doesn't cause the price to rise too much, this will be a good and long overdue move for Lexus.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    ROTFFLMAO !!!! Dare I ask just what in the heck a Faberge egg is ? :surprise: :blush:

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    What model does the GS and IS share with the Toyota brand ?

    The new LX 570 is a bad-[non-permissible content removed] SUV. It shares it's platform with the new Tundra, right ?

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    The LX 570, is going to hit $80K. :surprise: It is not $20K better then the Escalade. ;) I can't wait for the Hyundai LX 570 version that will be priced in the mid-high $40K range. ;)

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    the 2010 ES will be a RWD midsize sedan with no sharing with Toyota-badged cars.

    Really? A Lexusized Mark X maybe?
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Hyundai Terracan. Just throw a luxy interior in it and go.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Holy Smokes, bumpy you ain't a kiddin' pal. That would make a great LX 570. How do you know about all these various cars. You amaze the heck out of me. ;)

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Might as well make the title "Lexus vs. Cadillac, which one is the standard of the world?"

    Anyway, back onto topic. I think Lexus is the standard of the world at least in the reliability/quality category. It is true that a purest would still lust after BMW or Infiniti but one can't deny that Lexus has them all beat when it comes to reliability and quality.

    It is not Lexus' intention to make cars that compete with BMW. Lexus more or less took the "MB approach" which is to find the perfect balance between performance and luxury. It is always Lexus' design philosophy that being a luxury car maker they would NOT sacrifice luxury for extreme performance. One can see that philosophy applied too all of its sedan offerings. I would use the IS as an example, if Lexus really want to match the 3er in performance all they have to do is stiff-up the suspension (not hard) and drop a manual tranny to IS350. That'll pretty much shut those so-called enthusiasts up since it already has a kick-a** engine. However, to do that, Lexus will be forced to go against their design philosophy so at the end of day, they decided to make a Lexus IS instead of a Lexus 3-series-wanna-be.

    Say all you can about Lexus being soft and non-sporty but after a weekend in a rental 350Z I was so glad to be back in my soft IS350.

    It might be true to say that Lexus doesn't have a presence in other parts of the world besides NA 5 years ago but that's not the case anymore. Right now as we speak, Lexus is on sell in the following countries and I could miss a few:

    Europe (I know this is NOT a country but that only solidifies my point)

    Also worth noting, in both USA and Taiwan, Lexus is the number one selling luxury brand. That's pretty amazing if you ask me given that its relatively short history when comparing to BMW, MB and even Cadillac.

    By the way, the only rebadged Toyota in the Lexus line are the ES, GX and LX. Someone would argue that RX is a rebadged Highlander but the truth is that Highlander is a rebadged RX. To back up my statement let's think back which vehicle has paved the way for all the current cross-over craze? The answer is the original RX300, I rest my case. The only entry that I think is cheapening the Lexus brand is the ES350 due to its FWD setup and Camry blood-line. However, it is the best selling Lexus sedan so you can't really fault Lexus to give what the customers want.
  • rockshocka1rockshocka1 Member Posts: 310
    Any chance you have the sport package on your IS? Never seen one on the lot & not even shown as available in my area on the website. Haven't even found a decent review versus the non-sport ones.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Nope, don't have the sports package. Good luck finding it anywhere besides California. You can, however, ask the dealer to special order one for you. You can check out the IS forums for more information.

    Lexus IS
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    The GS and IS are two of the three models that don't share with Toyotas. The LX has been and will remain a rebadged and further luxed-up Toyota Land Cruiser, and much to my surprise, it appears that Toyota might continue the Land Cruiser line under the Toyota badge after next year.

    They will both share a platform with the new Tundra, yes.

    bumpy: I think you're onto something with the Mark X, I was already kinda thinking that was what it would be when it gets here.

    As far as louiswei's remarks that Lexus is trying to tread the middle ground, I think sure, that's what it is trying to do. MB is the other one trying to tread that middle ground, and I think many would argue that MB does a better job.

    I would love to see the results of a customer survey as to which they more aspire to own. I bet MB would win the day on that score. But certainly on sales numbers, reliability, etc, Lexus is tops.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mefistofelesmefistofeles Member Posts: 6
    I had a Lexus IS 300 for nearly seven years (130K Miles). Even till the end that car was a machine that ran well. There were hardly any problems with the IS 300,except for the cosmetics which I really abused.

    I can't say that I ran the Lexus at 10/10 like a racecar driver but I did bottom the car more than a few times. My cousin was so astounded by how well the Lexus stood up to all the wear and tear heaped upon that he ended up getting a Lexus IS 350 himself,after his 328 was on the verge mechanical failure. He me told that his BMer would never last a month in my hands.

    Lexus makes a wonderful car that stand up to immense consumer use. In my case I felt that the IS 300 really stood up to the test of time. Even after I traded in the Lexus was in great mechanical condition.

    In the time that I had the IS 300 exhibited superb handling and reliability. There was nothing more amazing than driving the IS 300 through sweeping high speed interchanges and blowing by Camaros and Porsches. I can't imagine what those drivers were thinking when my IS flew by their "sports cars".

    Of course I have a new Lexus GS 350, its a great car nowand I image that it will also hold up quite well.
    Although I am concerned that the larger 18 inch tires will be far more expensive to replace.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    blowing by Camaros and Porsches.

    People in Civics and Corollas speed by me all the time on the freeways. It only means they are more willing to risk a speeding ticket. You are in a dream world if you think the IS would out run or out handle a Porsche. He was probably thinking what I would be thinking when you blew past going way over the speed limit. Where's a cop when you need one.

    The IS300 was a blemish on the Lexus nameplate. Further tarnishing their image and making it harder to claim any part of a "Standard of the World".
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Hehe, a blemish on the Lexus nameplate? It exhibited most of the things Lexus is known for: reliability, value, good resale. It just skimped on the luxury goods, but some might say it compensated by being the most sporty Lexus of its day.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The IS300 was a blemish on the Lexus nameplate. Further tarnishing their image and making it harder to claim any part of a "Standard of the World".

    How can the fastest production car Lexus has ever built (currently) be a "blemish" of the nameplate? :confuse: :confuse: IMO, the current generation IS and GS are the best examples of Lexus' ongoing pursuit on balancing luxury and performance

    Just because the IS and GS don't fit your taste doesn't mean that they have cheapen the brand or tarnished the image.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If Toyota is going to maintain Lexus as their Luxury Nameplate the little sports cars are not part of the genre. In the case of BMW & MB they only have one nameplate trying to cover all bases.

    LS is Lexus to those that are looking for real luxury. When you see an IS, ES or RX, you think there goes the neighborhood. Cadillac made the same mistake with several little POC cars. I guess Lexus will learn the hard way like Cadillac. I will tell you for a fact when my wife thought of getting a new Lexus about 4 years ago we went to the dealership. When she saw all the cheapo cars she turned and said they have ruined Lexus and walked out. She may have bought the LS430 except she thought it was ugly and had been drug into the mud with all the other offerings. When she bought her last Lexus in 1989 there was only the LS400 and ES250. You can believe what you want. Perception is a big factor in buying vehicles. ToyLex has the perception of reliability if that fails them they have little else to fall back on. Their designers are clueless, yet good copy cats.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    In the case of BMW & MB they only have one nameplate trying to cover all bases

    Lexus is a luxury brand, like BMW and MB. They go head to head against each other. Toyota doesn't compete in that segment. If you can't get this fact straight then well...get the fact straight.

    Lexus is a full-line luxury nameplate so it cannot live on only having the LS and LX. It needs the following:

    Luxury compact (entry-level): IS
    Luxury mid size: ES & GS
    Luxury full size: LS
    Luxury entry SUV: RX
    Luxury mid size SUV: GX
    Luxury full size SUV: LX

    Toyota also offers a full lineup as such but WITHOUT the Luxury part.

    I guess Lexus will learn the hard way like Cadillac

    If the result of that lesson is breaking sales record every year and being the number one luxury nameplate in the USA then I'll say: rock on Lexus.

    When she saw all the cheapo cars she turned and said they have ruined Lexus and walked out.

    Well, Lexus lost your wife as a customer and gained another one with me so I guess they came out even at least. With the new LS setting record sales and the second generation IS being the 3rd best seller in the lineup I'll conclude that clearly your wife doesn't represent the majority of luxury car buyers.

    When she bought her last Lexus in 1989 there was only the LS400 and ES250

    If in 1989 Lexus had only 2 models and that's the case today, I'll say they are in big trouble!!

    You can believe what you want. Perception is a big factor in buying vehicles.

    Again, apparently most of the luxury car buyers don't agree with your perception.

    Their designers are clueless, yet good copy cats.

    Huh? Why are they clueless and who did they copy from? The first LS that your wife liked is indeed a rip-off of the old MB S-class (apparently she likes rip-offs :P , joking, no offense). But to say that's the case for the new LS is just totally WRONG.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    You are clueless.

    I am not a big fan of Lexus because I think they are boring but with the exeption of the ES none of them look cheap inside or out. The IS was a great, great driving car and I think refining that original concept would have had a better chance taking out the 3 series then the new IS which is too bloated and soft.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    First I have given praise to the current LS460. It is a nice looking car. Must have hired a new design team for it.

    You are wrong about sales at Lexus. Their number one selling vehicle the RX is down almost 10% so far this year. Unless they made a big jump in April. The IS series are down about the same percentage. I have almost enough fingers and toes to count the sales of GS cars. The new LS460 is doing well as it should. It is a vast improvement over the last decade of LS offerings. Lexus may as well get rid of the SC they have ruined it for sure. They don't sell enough for each dealer to have one a year. The SC400 was a beautiful car, that now looks CHEAP!
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Their number one selling vehicle the RX is down almost 10% so far this year

    Of course it is. The RX is on its last year for the current model.

    The IS series are down about the same percentage.

    Due to the new G35 hype. The monthly sales of around 6000 units is still whole lot better than the first gen IS which is something like 1000.

    Why didn't you mention that the ES sales improved like 50% from last year and LS improved almost 100%. The bottom line is the whole Lexus lineup is doing better than a year before.

    I don't know what you were thinking but the current SC430 looks much more upscale than the old SC300/400. In my eyes, the original SC looks like a rebadged Toyota.

    Must have hired a new design team for it.

    Lexus used the same "L-finess" design philosophy for the LS just like they did it to the new GS, IS and ES. If you can't see the family resemblance between the new "L-finess" sedans then you should definitely have your eyes check out.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You and I must be looking at a different IS250. That is a butt ugly car and looks cheap. I would not even consider driving one. If I buy a sports car it will be a Porsche. Heck Mitsubishi builds a sedan that will blow the doors off any IS built. Why waste all the money on a nameplate?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The IS is NOT a sports car. It is a luxury sports sedan which should not be confused with "sports car".

    Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Don't worry, you aren't the intended demography that Lexus has in mind for the IS anyway.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Just looking at sales for April. Toyota does not mention sales of the IS or GS. Maybe they are dropping the lines. There news release on sales are usually only pointing out gains and not losses. Notice how they only say "enjoyed sales" when they are in negative territory.

    Lexus passenger cars reported best-ever April sales of 16,317 units, an increase of 32.9 percent over April 2006. Passenger car sales were led by the ES 350 luxury sedan with best-ever April sales of 6,544 units, up 54 percent. The all-new LS 460 and LS 460 L reported combined sales of 3,182, an increase of 221.9 percent.

    Lexus Division light trucks reported April sales totaling 9,678 units. The RX 350 and RX 400h enjoyed combined April sales of 7,861 units. The RX 400h hybrid luxury utility vehicle reported sales of 1,384 units for the month.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't worry, you aren't the intended demography that Lexus has in mind for the IS anyway.

    I am positive of that. They know buyers such as myself do not consider little cars and luxury synonymous. Not sure why anyone would buy the ES unless they want to show friends they drive a Lexus instead of a Toyota Camry. Same appliance different trim.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    the mitsu will blow the doors off pretty much everything on the road. So why waste money on any other nameplate?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Just looking at sales for April. Toyota does not mention sales of the IS or GS. Maybe they are dropping the lines.

    Yeah, I am pretty sure that's what's happening...
    Man, I just love to see posts like this. It's the posts like this which would totally destroy the poster's credibility.

    :confuse: :confuse: :confuse: :sick:

    PS. the IS April sales went up 0.2% from last year thus virtually unchanged and improved from March sales.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I meant the old IS300 not the IS250. The original IS300 was a fun car but it would have been better with the JDM turbo 4 cylinder that it had in Japan. The current IS is no good to me.

    And what is this business about not being able to have small luxury cars? The premium small car market along witht he premium small SUV markets are the fastest growing segments in the auto industry right now.
  • bigo08bigo08 Member Posts: 102
    Please.. no even close :shades:
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    I agree. Lexus is known mostly in North America and has had a hard time establishing itself globally, especially in Europe. Also, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz are higher tiers globally based not only due to global sales (something like 5 to 1), but their images and heritages, and price points. Lexus has only entered the lower $100,000 price point recently with the limited LS600 compared to Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz that have several models greater than $100,000 including, V10s, V12s and W12. Also, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz have highly recognized performance arms around the world (Quattro, AMG, and M) that have established cult status among true automobile enthusiasts. And Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz have storied racing heritages where even today they are still dominant powers (i.e., R8 and R10). Both Mercedes-Benz and Audi are over 100 years old with a long list of achievements along with BMW. All three continue to excel in providing cutting-edge technology and quality just as Lexus thinks it does. It will take Lexus lot more than selling hybrids or adding gimmicks to be considered so-called "standard of the world." Plus, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz were long standing companies that continue to operate with a high degree of independence (yes, that includes Audi and Mercedes-Benz - check your facts if you don't think so). Lexus, is trying to do the same by establishing a performance arm (F) and by trying to get into racing. It needs credibility beyond its nursing home drivers.
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    Well, for being a "poor man's" car and the "el cheapo" RX, I sure do get a lot of comments from strangers out and about on what a "nice" or "beautiful" car my RX350 is. :P Not too shabby!
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    Boy, you are a real "winner"! We all know that the different styling of the various cars
    is certainly subjective; but, again, when you have people commenting how nice the car you're driving is, particularly people that don't know you from Adam, that's gotta mean something. I mean, come on here! Let's try not to be so insulting!
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    I couldn't have said it better myself, louiswei.
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    Sounds like your Lexus IS definitely withstood the sands of time. The GS is a really nice car also. I test drove the IS250, the ES350 and the RX350. I was coming from an '02 Maxima that had been totalled in a wreck. I absolutely loved the exterior style of the IS250, but felt it was way too small and I felt kind of claustrophobic in it.

    On the ES, I just wasn't wowed by the way the car drove. The RX ended up fitting just right for me, as I was considering shopping for a cross-over SUV just to have a little more flexibility, as I had a Nissan Pathfinder for several years before the Maxima and kind of missed the flexibility.

    I ended up kind of narrowing it down between an
    Acura TL, since it kind of reminded me of my
    very-quick Maxima, and the RX350, which afforded me more flexibility. In my mind, Acura blew it with their less than stellar treatment to a future new customer. Lexus really blew them away as far as the salesmanship and the overall treatment that I got as a customer.

    I will say, when my lease comes to an end on the RX, I might give the GS a more serious look, unless the 2009 RX sucks me back into its clutches. I saw the drawing of the 2009 RX on Edmunds, and it looks very promising. Good luck with your GS!
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    That's a shame, because your wife has missed out on an excellent relationship such that the Lexus dealership has afforded to me, since I became a member of the Lexus family. I've driven several different brand cars in the past 25 years, and to date the treatment at Lexus has been head and shoulders above the others!
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