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What Are The Top 6 Luxury Brands?

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Comments

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Those are the goofiest results I've ever read on Edmunds... Somethings awfully fishy there with the results.

    lame duck GM minivans #2?
    Overpriced flop XLR over the 911, SL and 6-series? What did they sell like 2 of them last year?
    a 7yo CTS?
    not even worth the look Colorado/Canyon #2?
    Cheapuinox #2?

    I'm sorry, no way are those results for real. Either 1 rabid GM fan logged in as 500 diffferent people, every Enterprise rental business on the planet voted or GM just bought the staff vacation homes :P

    That has got to be some of the most ridiculous results of any CMW poll ever. :sick:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    So now you are blaming consumer's for their picks ? :D Well maybe some folks have changed their minds. ;)

    -Rocky
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, not a Mercedes C class. Everyone with real money needs to enforce the pecking order of luxury, don't they?

    A true luxury car, in my opinion, can't be bought next to a Safeway with balloons tied to its aerial and rebate written in yellow stick-on letters across the windshield. Everybody knows it's not the real thing.

    That's why the top of my list is reserved for "cost no object" cars--which of course is the whole idea of luxury. The best of everything. No bean counter saying "nah-nah-nah...don't put that in there".

    Best leathers, best wool carpeting, best woods.

    Whether it goes the fastest isn't relevant to luxury, and if it is accessible to the common man, all the more reason to drop it from the list I'm sure if you go from a Scion to a Cadillac, you feel you are in luxury. But if you go from a Cadillac into a Rolls or Maybach, you really know you're someplace different once again. Pretty dramatic.

    Luxury and prestige go hand in hand, one cannot separate them, or at least I don't see how. You can't make luxury and wealth egalitarian and democratic. That's totally...well...absurd, isn't it?

    Cars like Lexus and Audi are upper middle class cars---they offer luxury, no doubt about it, but cars like Maybach and Bentley can easily trump them with more, better, bigger and more expensive. Maybe this is more apparent in Europe, where the pecking order is set more clearly among these cars.

    I guess it all depends how FAR you sink into that leather armchair and whether the floors in the bathroom are polished marble or actually heated underneath as well?

    It's all kind of silly but also kind of fascinating, watching the various cars scramble for top spot and trying to define what "luxury" is----especially now that the humblest cars offer things like leather, power accessories, etc.

    MrShiftright
    Visiting Host
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    (easier said than done), with his heavily biased lists, I'll give you the true State of the Union when it comes to luxury.

    1. Mercedes
    2. Lexus (itisthisclose)

    GRAND CANYON SIZED GAP



    3. Audi (Only because they have a complete line-up, they are still 3rd-rate, IMO)

    4-6. Everybody else.

    BMW doesn't do luxury, and if they have, I haven't seen it. They are a performance brand. Same with Porsche.

    Cadillac/Acura/Infiniti have incomplete line-ups and zero flagships, so they are also disqualified. :P

    DrFill
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    DrFill, you ODed saying that Cadillac, Infiniti, Acura, have incomplete line-up's whatever that means.... :confuse:

    The XLR is the Flagship for Cadillac. Q45 is a worthy Flagship for Infiniti. Acura, has the RL which has won some comparo's in the AWD comparisons. :confuse:

    -Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    And yet sales continue to fall, month after month, after month...

    hmmmmm.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    With all due respect, anybody could make a great $250k luxury car, if that was all they had to do all day. I'm not impressed. :lemon:

    Making 3000 Bentleys, or whatever, is great.

    I think making an opulent $50k car, with 6-7 other marques fighting for the same customer, while increasing share of the market, is a real accomplishment.

    My point is, making one super car is great. But making a cost no object car isn't that hard. Making 10 great cars is greater. Try balancing value, quality, marketing, new technology, emissions, mileage, design, etc.

    I respect marques that have to sell to different customers, in different regions, and fight different competition, all under a budget. That's a luxury brand, not a toymaker.

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The key word was flagship?

    Why don't you tell us what a flagship is? It seems one of us knows. Let's find out which one.

    DrFill
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Who's sales are falling month after month after month ?????? :confuse: GM's aren't. There global sales were up again while cutting the hell out of fleet sales. :confuse:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    A Flagship from what I always read was a brands top automobile which the auto's I mentioned all had. The NSX used to be Acura's thus the RL is filling that void until the next NSX get's here. The Q45 is Infiniti's top car thus it's the Flagship. Cadillac's top car is the XLR-V thus it's the Flagship. If you got a different definition of what a Flagship is I never heard of it unless Flagship means something different in your mind rather than to the rest of the world ???? :confuse:

    -Rocky
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I might let you slide on the XLR. Maybe.

    The textbook definition is the following:

    The finest, largest, or most important one of a series, network, or chain

    Considering the fact that there is nothing fine, large, or important about the XLR, it kind of underscores my point.

    My definition is more intangible.

    A successful, high-end car that most accurately defines the brand's image, that reflects the brand's market influence, and the vehicle proceeding vehicles will be built around.

    If vehicles like the NSX and XLR are your flagships, you are saying you don't really have one. :sick:

    They aren't successful, most likely lose money for the maker, and cannot even be redesigned because they lose money.

    Some flagship.

    Is the XLR making, or losing Cadillac money? Does it even make traffic? :confuse:

    DrFill
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well one could make a case for the Escalade or STS.

    The STS, has Cadillac sixteen concept styling cues. This is all subject to change in a few years as most of the cars will be remodeled along with the XLR. I don't have data on the XLR sales but I'm sure "somebody" will get it by tomorrow. ;)

    Good night from the Tejas Panhandle........ ;)

    -Rocky
  • grylexis300grylexis300 Member Posts: 53
    take what [non-permissible content removed] Reports says with a grain of salt as 50% of their subscribers are from the left coast. They have a built in biased torwards honyota's and the info they gather is limited to their subscriber base thus it's not objective enough to be taken seriously.


    SURE, any magazine that establishes japanese cars mainly lexus, toyota, nissan/infiniti and hondas/acura at the top of the hill has got to be lacking total credibility. what a bunch of idiots.

  • grylexis300grylexis300 Member Posts: 53
    So your main concern of judging cars by best to worst is how well the AC works and how good the stereo system is. That is a first for me. Well I look at more than just two categories when judging a luxury car. If money was no object BMW could easily place second or third on my list. Mercedes would probably be #2 though

    money has to be no object with bmw and mercedes because you will spend more money than the car is worth fixing it in the shop. and that includes the A/C. and i said let's do the consumer reports approach when we rank these luxury brands. i don't think they rate A/C and the stereo system do they?? the A/C and stereo quality is really icing on the cake. what does lexus not do well as far as luxury appointments and just flat out building a SOLID CAR. you are seriously smoking something if you think cadillac builds a better vehicle overall.

    and you never answered my question about what puts cadillac at the top. i personally love the president's limo and tiki barbers escalade but you got to be joking me. i think there are more ferrari's and lambos on the road today than there are cadillacs. but i don't want to rub it in too hard, you know, the fact that lexus has basically run buick and cadillac out of town. not even tiger woods, the matrix trilogy, tiki barber, and will smith can save cadillac. sorry.
  • grylexis300grylexis300 Member Posts: 53
    I think of true luxury cars as being bought by people who have wealth, not a salary.

    So I'd have to say, in the order of actual social and monetary prestige, from top to bottom:

    Maybach
    Rolls Royce
    Bentley
    Maserati
    Aston Martin
    Mercedes
    BMW 7 series
    Lexus 4 series

    That's about it. The rest are just "nice cars" that don't convey any credible prestige among peers IMO.

    wow, you just mentioned a bunch of cars that only 1% of the world's population could possibly afford or that boring enough to want to own some of these cars. considering the fact that the average american makes less than 50K a year what peer group are you talking about?? i mean, if i were driving around any NSX, a bmw M3, 5 series, lexus GS hybrid, RX hybrid, IS-F, any lexus LF series that wouldn't amount to any sort of prestige amongst my peers??

    anyway, let's face it, this is the US. i wouldn't get a second look driving most of the cars you mentioned. now, a black cadillac escalade with custom 22 inch chrome rims and new tires would whether you like how ghetto this country is becoming or not. you remember that movie arthur?? that is the last time i saw a rich person get into a rolls royce. i didn't even know they make them anymore.

    and no rocky, cadillac is still not in the top six.
  • grylexis300grylexis300 Member Posts: 53
    Lexus 4 series

    What is that?

    So Mercedes C-class is more luxurious than Audi A6, A8, BMW 5-series and Lexus GS?
    Replies to this message:

    i am anxiously awaiting a reply on this one as well. i didn't know cheap class and E class was so top tier. unless you are talking E-class from men in black II. i'll take that one above the rolls royce please

    thanks
  • grylexis300grylexis300 Member Posts: 53
    So you think Cadillac, Lincoln Buick, are going extinct ?

    Rocky

    yo rock!!!

    you are the rocky balboa of car lovers. but not even all of your resilience and sagacious might will be able to save these american legends from being run over by that locomotive with the "L" on it. i mean, inevitably they will be relegated to making cars for india, china, rental car and government agencies.
    sorry but i had to state the obvious.
  • grylexis300grylexis300 Member Posts: 53
    A true luxury car, in my opinion, can't be bought next to a Safeway with balloons tied to its aerial and rebate written in yellow stick-on letters across the windshield. Everybody knows it's not the real thing.

    what is the real thing?? a bentley can cook your breakfast and wipe your butt for you?? only snooty eurotrash would even notice one of these cars coming down the block. really, who in the world cares about these old fart cars in this day and age??

    That's why the top of my list is reserved for "cost no object" cars--which of course is the whole idea of luxury. The best of everything. No bean counter saying "nah-nah-nah...don't put that in there".

    Best leathers, best wool carpeting, best woods.

    but what if i am tiger woods and i come to your rolls royce dealership and ask you why your flagship car can get dusted by the garbage truck or the mailman?? no bean counter huh?? not for everyone, not for everyone. the best of everything?? i am not speed racer but i am not paying that much money for something that couldn't overtake a bus. i am tiger woods.

    Whether it goes the fastest isn't relevant to luxury, and if it is accessible to the common man, all the more reason to drop it from the list I'm sure if you go from a Scion to a Cadillac, you feel you are in luxury. But if you go from a Cadillac into a Rolls or Maybach, you really know you're someplace different once again. Pretty dramatic.


    pretty dramatic i'd say. watching the 18 wheeler almost roll me over flipping that ice bucket over and scambling my eggs.

    Cars like Lexus and Audi are upper middle class cars---they offer luxury, no doubt about it, but cars like Maybach and Bentley can easily trump them with more, better, bigger and more expensive. Maybe this is more apparent in Europe, where the pecking order is set more clearly among these cars.

    you know what is incredibly ironic?? if lexus/toyota wanted to get into the business of running cars like maytag and bentley out of town who would bet against them?? at the end of the day i hate to be so cavalier, but lexus/toyota will pretty much rule the world. the upperclass can remain untouched i guess and have their true luxury cars that nobody else can afford. but that goes to show you how stupid europeans are. they'd rather buy these cars while all rich americans don't waste money on these yawners, they put that money instead to maintaining their gulfstream 5.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Puff, puff, pass......grylexis300, because if you really believe Cadillac, won't be around you really are smoking some good stuff. ;) Tiger Woods, is helping to sell Buick's and within' 3 years Buick, will be making well a better Lexus, for a lot less money. ;)

    -Rocky
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Looks like another Cadillac vs. Lexus debate going on in this discussion topic, with Buick thrown in for good measure... (yawn)

    After reading through most of these posts, here is my take. First of all, anyone who posts more than 6 messages in a row needs to... well... stop talking so much and get off the soapbox! No wonder the Forum home page lists this topic as "Today's Top Discussion"!

    Secondly, before anyone criticizes exotics such as Bentleys and Maybachs, please perform a little research. Far from getting dusted by "the garbage truck", some of these cars, as heavy and luxurious as they are, can perform 5-second 0-to-60 runs, if I remember correctly -- likely surpassing any production model from Lexus here in the U.S.

    Having said that, I agree that most of us cannot relate to such exotics. Personally, I'd much rather discuss performance exotics (Ferrari, Bugatti, etc) than luxury exotics such as RR and Bentley. Because this topic is all about "luxury", then I agree discussions on more common brands such as Lexus, MB, Cadillac, etc, will fully "stay on topic", while likely generating the most interest here.

    Not only that, but I will also agree with you on which of these makes is my #1 mass-produced luxury brand.

    Cadillac has been making some good strides these past few years, but they barely crack my top 6. The Escapade just doesn't inspire many of us, and the CTS doesn't have the luxurious interior of most of its competition. Some of their other cars are..., well..., "land yachts", in my opinion. However, I respect the progress they've made, and I'm looking forward to seeing the next CTS.

    MB isn't my #1 choice because my definition of "luxury" includes providing a reasonable amount of reliability to prevent multiple trips to the dealership for nuissance repairs. It also means not introducing a new 7-speed auto transmission that is terribly problematic, and not building cars with tendencies to stall and leave drivers stranded.

    So..., I have to agree with you that Lexus is my personal #1 luxury brand. Not by much, though. If "performance" and "fun-to-drive" were included within the definition of "Luxury", then BMW, Audi, and Infiniti would be up there. Admittingly, I haven't driven the IS. However, I've driven nearly every other Lexus model during the past few years. Each one was a very fine car. However, the "fun to drive" factor, when compared to much of the competition, just wasn't there.

    That's what is fun about these debates: There is no correct answer! :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    yeah, real "luxury" is by definition USELESS, WASTEFUL, even bordering on ridiculous.

    The topic does use the word "TOP" so we have to go for the summit of lavish, useless, prohibitively expense pampering here....

    BACK IN THE DAY

    Oh god I'll start to sound like your parents, but here goes:

    "back in the day", if you owned say a 1953 Chevrolet and you were invited into a 1953 Cadillac....well....you were instantly transported into a HIGHER UNIVERSE in every respect. It looked, smelled and FELT different in that Caddy. Cool leather seats that a Chevrolet owner could only dream about...chrome chrome chrome everywhere....little reading lights....silent engine....cushy ride....AC freezing your nose hairs....signal seeking radio....automatic headlight dimmers...

    Man, this car was SOMETHING ELSE....

    BACK TO 2007!

    To get this level of difference, you have to reach way up into the $250K range; otherwise, one $60,000 "luxury" car is pretty much like any other.

    But you spend 250K, you ARE going to get something different than a Buick, Cadillac, Audi or Acura, or even a Benz or BMW.

    So "luxury" is a relative term, and to me at least, top means TOP....that wondrous universe of a 1953 Cadillac, re-created in 2007.

    MrShiftright
    Visiting Host
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well TOP would mean this to me.

    #1 Bugatti
    #2 Saleen
    #3 Ferrari
    #4 Maybach
    #5 Lamborghini
    #6 Aston Martin

    -Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The LaCrosse is already a prettier version of the Lexus GS.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What about McClaren?
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    It's all kind of silly but also kind of fascinating, watching the various cars scramble for top spot and trying to define what "luxury" is----especially now that the humblest cars offer things like leather, power accessories, etc.

    Exactly right. If that's all that's needed, then Hyundai's Azera and upcoming Genesis will have to be listed as "luxury."
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    #1 Bugatti
    #2 Saleen
    #3 Ferrari
    #4 Maybach
    #5 Lamborghini
    #6 Aston Martin

    Err Saleen might think of themselves as a real automaker but they are not. They are definetly not a luxury car maker.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The LaCrosse is already a prettier version of the Lexus GS.

    The LaCrosse isn't even in the same league as any Lexuses.

    As matter of fact, Buick isn't in the same league as Lexus...
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I'll second that, as matter of fact, I don't think even the Bugatti, Ferrari and Lamborghini should be considered as luxury car makers as well.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The Q45 is Infiniti's top car thus it's the Flagship.

    Not anymore. 2006 was the last year for the Q.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Okay I'll solve the problem........

    #1 Rolls Royce
    #2 Maybach
    #3 Bentley
    #4 Aston Martin
    #5 Mercedes
    #6 Land Rover

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    No replacement ? :surprise:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I would side with lemko, on that one as the Lacrosse SUPER will be here in a month or two. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    The Genesis, will be a luxury car no doubt about it. It will also be one of the best ones on the market and will no doubt be the best value ;)

    -Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Not yet. Everyone was buying the M45 instead.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Luxury and Value do not go together.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    The Genesis, will be a luxury car no doubt about it. It will also be one of the best ones on the market and will no doubt be the best value

    -Rocky

    There's no "rolling my eyes" emoticon, so you'll just have to imagine it.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I don't care if the LaCrosse SUPER DUPER is here in a month or two it still would not be in the same league as the GS.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I guess that's a matter of opinion. You can have both. A car that uses premium quality materials inside/outside and has the ride, comfort, power, handling, gadgetry, are some of the words that fit the definition of a luxury car to me.

    Simpily having a fancy emblem propped up by the media with a staggering price doesn't neccessarily make a product a luxury item. The elements are more important than the image to me and many others. I know shallow people are more worried about the image/emblem than what the actual product they are buying. It makes no sense to me. :confuse:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    McLaren, no longer makes cars do they ? The McLaren F1, hasn't been made since the late 90's I think. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    louiswei, in a way you are right as I think the GS trumps it in pure luxury. I actually like the GS, but they sure have gotten very pricey. You use to be able to buy a V8 GS for like $47,000 and load it out for the low $50's. Now if you load one out you can cross the $60K mark. :surprise:

    -Rocky
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Rocky you need a ride in a Ferrari for a reality check. I'll see what I can do for you! :P

    Not that a Ferrari doesn't have nice seats and all, but with 12 cylinders tearing your eardrums out and luggage space fit for MINI Cooper, I'm not sure "luxury" is the word I'd use to describe one.

    Comparing a Ferrari to a luxury car is more like F-16 cockpit vs. first class armchair on a 747.

    MrShifty
    Visiting Host
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I couldn't agree more. I sell nice cars and I see a lot of other nice cars. I have sold used cars that are close to 100k USD. I see BMWs, Mercs, Lexi, Audis, Infinitis all the time and they are nice but to get to true Luxury now you have to go to the next level.

    With the heavily subvened leases on the market now it doesn't take much cash up front to get into most 100k or less cars. Yes, there are exeptions to that rule as some luxury cars dont have big incentives but for the most part you can lease these cars cheap now.

    Hell I could go lease a 100,000 dollar 7 Series if I reall wanted to. I would have to downsize my house first to free up some cash but I could do it. No way in hell could I afford to buy one because I don't have that kind of cash to dump into a depreciating asset.

    When a client comes by in a Bentely, Mayback, Rolls, Aston Martin, etc then that is another world compared to even the most expensive Audi/Merc/BMW/Lexus. I have ridden in all of those cars, except the Rolls I just sat in that, and I have driven a Bentley you can't compare them to the plebian luxury cars from other makes.

    I have also driven a 575M and a F430. They are fablous cars but they are not really luxury cars. Even the 575M which is rather soft compared to the F430 is not a really luxury car.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    The sound of a Ferrari 512TR Flat Twelve is pure luxury to my ears. You could take the radio out and I wouldn't care. :P That is the golden eutopia of luxury. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I personally don't think the gap between the Lexus 460 hybrid I forget what it's called
    LS 600h L ->Right ? and a Aston Martin is that great. Aston Martin, get's noted for their great exterior designs but the luxury and features are not superior to the Lexus. The Mercedes S600 AMG like the Lexus out gadgets cars like the Bentley, Rolls, Aston, and I guess I don't see where this huge gap between the two divisions of Luxury and so-called Super Luxury is at. The Rolls Royce, essentially is a mini limo with plush carpet, premium leather with a badge. I myself would rather buy the Benz or Lexus, and keep the money to put fuel in the private jet. I'm just saying rich folks are throwing their money away just because they can and I don't think spending 3 times as much for the so-called Super Luxury, they are getting a good return for the experience. I guess you will say what do I know because I'm a pee-on, right ?

    -Rocky
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    I don't think it's luxury if I can afford it w/o selling my house first (oblique nod to Groucho Marx's comment on clubs that would allow him to join). Since so many marques offer vehicles I can afford (Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Lexus, MB, etc.) I think they've been diluted as luxury brands. They all offer luxury models, though.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    he Rolls Royce, essentially is a mini limo with plush carpet, premium leather with a badge.

    A Rolls is a whole lot more then that but just like the Maybach it is a vehicle to be driven in rather then a vehicle to drive.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 56,192
    And if I am going to be driven, I want to be driven in a MB600 or a 50s-60s RR Phantom, or a pre-1960s Caddy limo, or a highline prewar MB, etc. They may not be the same luxury wise...but there's more to that scene, at least in my eyes.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...if I were a Bill Gates or a Warren Buffet, I'd like to be chauffered around in a 1960 Imperial limousine by Ghia.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You don't need to be Bill Gates---all you need is a mere $20,000 to buy one. However, you may need to be Bill Gates to fill up the gas tank :P

    Back then "luxury" really meant something. The gap between luxury cars and "ordinary" cars was much greater than it is now---and, of course, there was no plastic, or very little of it.

    This is why, I think, you need to spend an additional $200K to top an Acura....well come to think of it, I wonder if a Chrysler limo WAS in fact 5X the cost of a New Yorker...kinda doubt it but I don't know....
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Shifty, I don't think you need to spend that much but I kind of understand what you are saying as in Bentley, Rolls Royce. ;) I think one almost has to jump to Mercedes S-Class or Lexus LS 460 to get a big enough gap which puts you around $50K more to get a real difference maker. ;)

    -Rocky
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