Check Engine light

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah well if he puts a fuel pump in and it doesn't fix the problem, you can tell him to take it right out again and refund your money. This sounds like a guess, and not a great one, unless he knows something we don't.

bassmax

Well, My 1997 Ford F-150's engine light came on about 5 years ago with no change in operating condition. It now has 140,000 miles and runs great with no change in mileage or running condition......My 92 XLE Camry's light came on about 7 years ago.....same as above ( my abs light comes on when I hit 62 miles per hour). And my 96 Civic's light came on at about 160,000 with conditons same as above.....am I going to have these lights checked out, probably not.

Mr_Shiftright

Well some people fall off roofs and land on a mattress truck, too. :P I'm glad you got lucky, but others could ignore an engine light and have a disaster, too. The odds suggest that having a CEL checked out is a good idea.

richardson

You must live where there is no emissions testing. You wouldn't pass the test here with those cels.

nikon6762

I own a 1993 Ford Festiva with 130,000 miles on it.I bought it new,and have been the car's only owner.I love this car because it has been so darned reliable,and it gets excellent gas milage.Yesterday,I had the hood popped to check my oil.I was looking at my spark plug wires,and they looked as if they were loose,and needed to be pushed onto the spark plugs more.So I pushed them onto them.I drove the car off and on all afternoon,and then last night as I was driving home at dark,the check engine light proceeded to light.This is the first time that this light has ever lit on this car in the 15 years that I have owned it.Today,I drove it a short distance,and the check engine light lit once again.Performance-wise,the car is driving and running fine-with no change in the way that it runs,or loss of power.The only thing that I notice is that it is "missing" a little bit,but has been doing this for a while-but the engine light never lit.Also,I notice that when it rains,the car starts missing.Possibly maybe a crack in my distributor cap,that when it gets wet-it gets all funky.But when it stops raining and gets dry,it's okay.I do a lot of long-distance driving,and it kinda freaked me out when this CEL went off last night,wondering if the car is safe to drive-and that my engine wasn't conking out on me.But am REALLY suspecting that my pushing the spark plug wires the way that I did yesterday has something to do with the light going off.I had my last tune up back in 2005,and have driven about 25-30,000 miles since then.What is the recommended milage between tune-ups? When the check engine light goes off,what is actually happening,and what can the problems be? Any input that you can give me about this light going off would be much appreciated!! Oh,and another thing,my mom was riding in the passenger side of the car yesterday-and her shoulder harness kept gripping her extremely tight.(It has never done this before) Once,to the point that I had to reach over and use the emergency release to release her.Would the CEL go off if a shoulder harness was malfunctioning?? :confuse: :confuse:

Mr_Shiftright

Probably a mis-fire caused by an internal break in the spark plug wire. Just a guess of course. You have an early version of OBD so you can't read as much information, but you should get the car's computer scanned if you can find a place that has the hook-ups. Certainly if you didn't replace the plug wires 30,000K ago you should do that now, and even if you did replace them, it might be a good idea to do that again, given all your various symptoms.

Certainly ready for another tune-up.

nikon6762

Thank you for the quick reply!! Come to think of it,my mechanic did NOT replace my spark plug wires the last time that I had a tune-up!! (And as I was typing my e-mail to you last night,I was also thinking the very same thing about a break in my spark plug wires!!) Cause he said that they were still good,and did not want to replace them if they didn't need to be.He is a great mechanic,and has always said that he won't replace something unless it needs to be replaced.About 5 years ago,my car was not starting one morning.I got a hot shot and drove it into Auto Zone,so they could hook it up and see if it was my battery.They hooked it up and told me that it was my alternator,and kept asking me if I wanted to order a new one.I told them no,that I was going to take it into my mechanic.(which I should have done in the first place,but Auto Zone was closer,and I wanted to find out what was going wrong) I told my mechanic what Auto Zone had said,and he looked it over and asked me who in the heck told me that it was my alternator.I told him Auto Zone.He said that they didn't know what in the hell that they were talking about,or how to hook the meter up properly.My alternator was fine-and still is.The problem? A battery wire that was a 20.00 repair,instead of a 310.00 alternator.Guess what I'm trying to say is that he could have really stuck it to me for the alternator,but he didn't.And I'm a woman......

Mr_Shiftright

Any diagnostic machine, even if it's the size of a building and costs $1 million dollars, is only as good as the human being using it.

tony12345

Hi,
Maybe I can help you but first my name is Tony. Base on the info you gave I think you should do the following: go to your local Ford dealer to purchase (1) a set of ignition wires (also known as spark plug wires), (2) 4 spark plugs, (3) 1 Distributor Cap and (4) 1 Distributor Rotor. Have a professional install these parts on your car. MAKE SURE YOU PURCHASE THESE PARTS AT YOUR FORD DEALER because they are better quality parts than, say AutoZone, R&S Strauss, or PepBoys. It's worth paying 5 or ten dollars once rather than paying $20, 30, or $40.00 dollars re-doing the job two or three times, or getting stuck on the highway. How much do you think the tow will cost due to defective parts? I learned from experience that you get better parts at the dealer than at a local auto parts store. If you really think about it makes sense. Parts at the dealer costs more because the parts have to go through what's called "quality control standards." In other words, each and every part purchased at a dealer is tested to make sure not only that it works but also that it works properly under different stress levels. Other makers of parts only copy the parts and do not subject their parts to quality control tests. Also while you are at it, you should change the air filter, PCV valve (if your car has one), and the gas filter. MAKE SURE YOU ALSO BUY THESE PARTS ALSO AT YOUR FORD DEALER. I know what I'm talking about because I have over 20 years experience fixing automobiles. If you have any problems, just post a message here. Good luck. By the way, what is your name?

tony12345

June 02, 2008

Hi ,
Its Tony again and I forgot to tell you that I found a recall on your car. It's listed below. Also, while you're at the Ford dealer check with the service department to see if there are any open recalls on your car. Make sure you have your VIN number with you because you will need so that the service department can check for the recalls.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 96E017000
Vehicle/Equipment Make: FORD
Vehicle/Eqipment Model: FESTIVA
Model Year: 1993
Mfg Campaign Number:
Mfg Component Desc: SUSPENSION:FRONT:CONTROL ARM
Mfg Involved in Recall: FORD MOTOR COMPANY
Manufacture Dates: 04-01-96 through 06-01-96
Type of Report: (E) Vehicle
Potential # of Units Affected: 94
Date Owner Notified by Mfg: 07-96-96
Recall Initiated By: MFR
Mfg Responsible for Recall: MOOG AUTOMOTIVE
Report Recieved Date: 06-96-96
Record Creation Date: 06-96-96
Regulation Part Number:
FMVSS Number:

Defect Summary: EQUIPMENT DESCRIPTION: AFTERMARKET BALL JOINT/CONTROL ARM MANUFACTURED BY MOOG INDUSTRIES. DUE TO MISPACKAGING, CERTAIN BALL JOINT/CONTROL ARM ASSEMBLIES WERE INCORRECTLY PLACED IN THE WRONG BOXES.

Consequence Summary: THESE BALL JOINT/CONTROL ARM ASSEMBLIES WILL NOT FIT INTO THE FRAME RECESS WITHOUT BEING ALTERED. ALSO THE STUD IS UNDERSIZED AND WILL NOT FIT THE SPINDLE PROPERLY POSSIBLY CAUSING A LOSS OF STEERING CONTROL INCREASING THE RISK OF A VEHICLE ACCIDENT.

Corrective Summary: MOOG WILL REPLACE THE INCORRECTLY PACKAGED ASSEMBLIES WITH CORRECT BALL JOINT/CONTROL ARM ASSEMBLIES.

the above recall info retrieved from: http://www.allworldauto.com/recalls/NHTSA_96E017000_1993_FORD_FESTIVA_recall_464- 4.html

bassmax

nikon, I would change plug wires and go back with either original or a very good set of after market since it pays in the long run. I had a similar thing happen with my camry and it turned out to be wires or one bad wire....good luck

nomech3

My cel came on yesterday.I called the dealer,he said try the gas cap and twenty starts.No change.So am I in for a high dealer bill?

Mr_Shiftright

Well you could have the trouble codes read for free at Autozone, for starters. You need to find out what's wrong before you damage something.

charlieswife

My check engine light on my 2001 Toyota Sienna LE came on and I brought it to the car shop. They told me it was the catalytic converter. So they fixed it. One week later my check engine light came back on. I went back to the shop and they hooked a computer check thing on my car and said the catalytic converter is not functioning right. So they fixed that again. Now about 2 weeks later the check engine light came on again.
Please, some ideas what else could be wrong, even when the code for the catalytic converter comes on. They fixed it twice already!!

Mr_Shiftright

What comes to my mind (as an armchair quarterback who's not in the game) is that they are curing the symptom but not the disease. In other words: troublecodes do not tell you which component to replace. No car computer on earth is that smart, that it can positively identify the EXACT cause of your problems.

So the data (codes) need to be interpreted correctly. In this case, something must be making the catalytic very unhappy, some rich fuel mixture, etc.

charlieswife

What do you mean with rich fuel mixture? I am sorry I don't get it. I am originally from Germany and my husband is currently serving in Iraq and I am kind of overwhelmed with my car situation.

fordfan_17

what mr_shiftright is saying is the computer on the car is coming up with catalyst efficiancy codes due to some other reason. ie: oxygen sensors not functioning correctly. or some other fuel delivery problem with the vehicle. it will have to be diagnosed a little more to find the cause of the problem.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes exactly thank you. If the vehicle is getting too much fuel (more than it needs) because some sensor or device is sending the computer wrong information, the catalytic converter, which is supposed to clean the exhaust leaving the engine, will find too much unburned gasoline in the exhaust, and will send distress signals.

So perhaps your mechanics are reading the catalytic's distress signals, but have not found the reason why the catalytic is so overloaded with work.

melly_mel20

My check engine light was on, test it said it was running too rich. Auto Zone told me to change the spark plugs. I changed the spark plugs, oil and air filter on my Beetle yesterday.

Now, my car is super choppy when I accelerate and the check engine light starts to flash after driving it for a few minutes. Any advice?

0patience

You need to have it scanned for trouble codes and let us know what the code numbers are. More than likely, the trouble codes are P0300-P0306.

Also, the spark plugs. Were they the exact same ones as you took out?
If not, then that is half your problem.
Most newer vehicles don't like different brand spark plugs and VW and Honda really don't like different brands.

Who replaced the spark plugs?
Are they sure they got the plug wires on properly?

Lastly. NEVER, EVER, EVER listen to a parts person.
They are NOT mechanics.

dakine4

I bought a used rsx.After 200 mi. the maint req lite came on .Is there a way" I "
can reset it without taking it to the dealer?

0patience

Press and hold the select and reset buttons next to the instrument panel, then turn the ignition switch ON.
Hold the buttons for at least 10 seconds, until the indicator resets.

wb2eqe

Hello all

I have a 98 Avalon XL with 57,000 miles on it, Fed and Calif emissions, that developed a crack/split in the flex pipe. The local shop replaced the pipe and converter (one piece unit). Within an hour the check engine light came on, the car began running rough, smoke and stink from exhaust, surging... I put my OBD-II on it and came up with a lean condition, multiple mis-fires in cyls 1,3,5 and the Bank 1 Sensor 2 AF/O2 reads a dead o.oooV under all rpm. If I clear the codes, it runs ok for a few minutes, continuous monitoring still shows 000V from the rearmost monitor/sensor, check engine light then comes on and it goes back to running rough. Almost as though the sensor was disconnected.

I brought it to the same shop who put his OBD on it, came up with the same and a few more readings but was defensive to the point where "it couldn't be anything I did" which unfortunately I expected. Seems too coincidental, thoughts please?

As I'm a newbie to the list, I hope this post is OK. If off-list responses are more appropriate, please PM me.

doc

Mr_Shiftright

Sounds like some unknown, un-named mysterious 3rd party who might have co-incidentally been in the vicinity of your exhaust system bunged up the oxygen sensor, or maybe just fried it lightly in olive oil?

wb2eqe

EVOO?

kiawah

Well I think you know when and where the sensor (or it's wiring) got damaged...........

There obviously is a slim possibility that the sensor failed coincidentally on it's own, at the same time of the exhaust repair.

Perhaps if this is a shop where you have a relationship and do repeat business with, you can split the cost of repair. You pay for the sensor at his parts cost, and he puts it in for free.

wb2eqe

I guess my question is whether the B1 S2 sensor reading 0.000V is bad? The front 2 read approx 0.640V varying by a few hundreths. I am going to try to get under the car tomorrow and look at the harneess.

jeffery351

2004 kia sorento shrugs while driving on expressway, then check engine light comes on, at the dealership they drive it for 3 blocks - it shuts off completely and has to be towed back to the dealership.
what gives??

kiawah

The dealership should put an OBD2 tester on it and pull the error codes. That will tell them the area of the car that are likely suspects, and where the problem might be.

Some auto parts chains will pull the codes for you as well on a complimentary basis, you can then look the error codes up on the internet for your vehicle.

smullen1

what resant repairs have been don?

smullen1

poss. stray R.F. signals from your car somwere

smullen1

this might be a 100,000 reset witch is a modual located uder the dash near the steering colum a little black box with a hole in it ,just take a safty clip and insert in hole and hold down till light goes out

pjksr

Have they fixed your Sienna? Did they install a new "computer?"

My Sienna threw the same code (P0420), and I have found that it could either be a bad catalytic converter or a the engine control module (ECM), as my sensors are good. The ECM's logic has been revised, and if this code appears, your dealer should replace the ECM, free, if your 96/80,000 warranty is still in effect. (Google: TSB EG047-05). I'm stuck though, with 127,000 miles...

~Pete

euphonium

and because I don't believe in the Liberal Global Warming agenda and don't care if the hippie who is hitch hiking for a free ride breaths any of my exhaust, and lacking respect for the Enviornmental Movement, the CEL light on my cars get very little acknowledgement from me. :P

As long as it runs, step on the gas.

richardson

That won't fly if you live where cars are tested for emissions.

euphonium

And that, my friend, is one of the minor reasons why I live Rural SW WA.

After retirement, we considered moving to the Peoples Republic of Puget Sound, but only for a second.

Today the road is full of snow while we're comfortable not sliding around the streets of Portland.

Mr_Shiftright

You can't pass smog in many states with the CEL light on, and it might also indicate something that might destroy the catalytic. (such as a misfire) Also the light tells you that codes are stored to give you an indication of where to look for the problem.

euphonium

After the catalytic converter is destroyed, a Flowmaster Delta 50 replaces it.

Mr_Shiftright

Not legal in many states, thankfully.

Sometimes you can reset the check engine light and it will stay off long enough to pass your smog test, but it's a good idea to have the codes read to see what's going on under there.

euphonium

Being submissive to the Environmental Movement is like wearing a Tutu on the gridiron.

Mr_Shiftright

Okay you tell that to the smog technician, forest ranger, beach patrol and city services personnel in charge of refuse, burning and toxic waste disposal. I'm sure they'll all just let you off. :P

The CEL light should always be addressed regardless if you are in a smog state or not. It could be related to nothing of significance (Ioose gas cap, etc.) or it could be the precursor to your car blowing up.

diy_dad

In california its really tough to pass a smog test I had a oxygen sensor replaced and the check engine light came back on, Complained to the shop that did the work and they had no idea why the light returned finally found the answer on this site http://repairpal.com/check-engine-light "On vehicles 1996 and newer, using an inexpensive "universal" oxygen sensor will cause problems with the emissions system." How frustrating is that these shops are using universal oxygen sensors and charging dealer prices for the part, They finally put the dealer part in and the light went off and passed smog only took three weeks and I had to show them this website before they would put in the correct part.

isellhondas

We love it when people are trading in cars with a CEL on.

They will ALWAYS say..." It's probably a loose wire or something minor"

Yeah, right!

A store HAS to assume the worst because that's usually what it is. It can be a bad transmission, bad computer or a bad converter.

We will appraise the car accordingly and so will any smart store.

Had a trade in last summer with an air bag light on. A Volvo naturally. The Volvo Dealer charged us 1200.00 to fix whatever it was. It wa NOT a loose wire!

obyone

Guangdong P.R.C

Hmm. Chinese spam. Sweet sour.

Mr_Shiftright

spam now in the can.

jeffreyb4

My check engine light was on, code checked & cleared by a local mechanic. The code indicated PCM problem. The light came back on so I took it to a dealer to have PCM replaced (under warranty). The dealer checked & confirmed the PCM code and agreed to replace it at no cost. However, while at the shop, another code appeared that was not there before. This code indicated knock sensor and the dealer said this would cost $340. My question is, why did this code suddenly appear at the dealer? Is there a way to program this code to show up falsely? I think they may have done this on purpose and there was actually no problem with the knock sensor until they did something to make it show up. Is this possible? Thank you for any advice. Trying not to get the run around by an unscrupulous dealer.

kiawah

Nope, you worry too much.

The engine computer is monitoring all of the sensors in the car, and using them to adjust other things and keep the engine running at optimal condition.

Some sensors are always sending back a signal, and if you don't get a signal, you know something is most likely bad. For instance, each wheel has sensor, and when the vehicle is moving forward straight the computer would see 4 signals, all at the same pulse rate. If you only got 3, then it's relatively easy to figure out that either one wheel is locked up and skidding, or the sensor is bad.

Some sensors, the computer has to deduce there are problems, by the process of elimination. Or, it can never know exactly and call out multiple possibilities. The knock sensor is a sensor where you don't normally get a signal, except when engine is heavily overloaded and starts to ping/detonate early. If the computer never receives a signal, the computer thinks that the engine is running okay....yet the engine could be severly overloaded and spark timings and mixture should be adjusted.

The analogy I'd give you is a fire alarm. You don't normally hear a fire alarm in your building, and because of that you think it's a safe working environment. However, if you walk out of the office, and it feels warmer than usual, you may think the air conditioner is not working correctly. A little bit later, if you also see and smell smoke, then you now suspect there is a fire, and then realize that the fire/smoke sensor must be defective because it never triggered and reported a problem.

So sometimes it is relatively quick and straight forward to figure out EXACTLY what is wrong. Most of the time, the engine can very quickly deduce there's only a couple of potential causes to the problem. Other times it takes more analysis or longer time to monitor multiple situations before it's able to figure out the cause. Sometimes the computer will never figure out the right cause, and it takes a humanoid to figure it out, by process of elimination or deduction.

euphonium

If the knock sensor is, like the PCM, germain to the Emission System shouldn't that be covered under warranty as well?

tjacks1

when i turn the key nothing happens i get the dummy lights the battery is good i can jump the starter with a screwdriver and the car turns over but still wont start any sugestions on what might be the problem

kiawah

Ignition key switch, ignition switch relay, try a different key in case security chip in key isn't communicating with security module, etc.

Thats where I'd be starting to look.