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Geo Metro Engine Questions

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Comments

  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    I don't want to interfere with Zenden's good and helpful advice; but I think you need to consider the following: The compression pressure in this motor must not be less than the minimum manufacturer's specification (it must be greater than 165 psi, and optimally at 195 psi). The compression may be low either because it has a non-stock camshaft, or the camshaft timing has been altered by the use of an offset keyway, or because the head is cracked, warped or the valves are not seating properly. If that is the case, then there is no way that it can be made to run smoothly or properly. In that situation; trying to readjust the TPS or the idle air bypass, or the throttle stop will just throw you into a bottomless pit where it keeps running worse and worse despite everything you do. So please run a compression test BEFORE changing any of the engine adjustments. That will save you all kinds of grief.
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    edited June 2010
    It sounds like you may need this info. There are two types of upper timming sprockets; the solid type and the 5 spoked type. This is how to alingning the common 5 spoked type.

    The (Crankshaft) woodruff key will be at 12:00 ; this will make the lower marks line up.
    The (Camshaft) has a alingment pin sticking out, it will be at 6:00 o'clock then put the cam sprocket on; ( it has two slots coming out from the center hole ) when alingment is correct the slots will be pointing toward 1:00 o'clock and 6:00 0'clock ( NOT at 6:00 and 11:00) . Now all timing mark will line up; both will point upwards. This info is correct for any GEO's with a 5 spoked type cam sprocket..
  • trmechantrmechan Posts: 5
    I can use any information I can get. I got the car from a friend, with a blown headgasket. He had tried to get the car running but couldn't find the problem.
    I checked it for him and told him the headgasket was bad. He didn't want to mess with it any more. So I bought the car from him and changed the head gasket, had the valves ground, and head surfaced. Put it together and couldn't get it to start without removing the bolts from the distributor and turning the dist. beyond its limits. The only way to get is started within dist. limits was to move the timing belt off by one notch. The compression is about 180psi on all cyl.
    The biggest problem I am running into now is trying to get things back to where they are suppost to be. From talking to previous owner I now know that he played with the idle screw, tp sensor, ign timming, cam timming, and idle control.
    So I have my work cut out for me.
  • trmechantrmechan Posts: 5
    edited June 2010
    I Researched cam timming, and did have the timming set correct until know. I don't know why I have to move the cam back one notch, unless their is a computer problem. Thanks for conferming the correct setting anything is in question right now.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    There are two different types of distributors which were used on the 1.0 motor. The 1989-1991 motors used a distributor with a dual diaphragm vacuum advance unit that had 2 vacuum hoses; the auxiliary advance diaphragm (outer hose on the distributor) was connected to a spigot on the cyl # 1 intake manifold runner, and the main advance diaphragm (inner hose on the distributor) was connected to the center spigot of the three spigots on the lower front edge of the throttle body. Later model throttle bodies (on engines that did not have vacuum advance distributors) only had 2 vacuum spigots; the one closer to the passenger side is used for the EGR system; while the one closer to the driver's side is used for the vapor purge cannister.

    The 1992 and later models used a distributor which does not have vacuum advance, and instead has an electronic advance circuit. With this distributor; the vacuum spigot on the # 1 cylinder intake runner should be capped off, and if there are three vacuum spigots on the throttle body; the center one should be capped.

    In this situation, I would first make sure the timing notch on your crankshaft pulley is really at TDC. That can be done by lining up the pulley notch with TDC on the degree scale on the timing cover. Then pull the spark plug in # 1 cylinder, insert a 1/4" rod into the plug opening, and rock the crank pulley in both directions while holding the rod; to see if the piston comes up any further than where it was when the timing marks were lined up. If the timing marks are true; you can trust them for use in further tests. But if the marks are not correct; the pulley may be the wrong model; or the Woodruff key may be missing or broken. If the key is not in place; the mark may be able to move around, which would make it impossible to set the timing accurately enough to tune the rest of the settings. So you'd need to fix that issue before going further.

    I'm going to give you a little more information here, but please do not apply it until you've gotten the timing marks to be trustworthy.

    Have you tried connecting a timing light to # 1 cylinder, and seeing where the timing is when the engine is idling as slow as possible (with any vacuum hoses disconnected from the distributor and plugged). If your motor has the electronic advance distributor, the check connector terminals next to the firewall on the driver's side should be shorted together with a jumper wire or a paper clip to disable the electronic advance circuit, before checking the timing. The stock ignition timing on the 1.0 motor is 6 degrees BTDC @750 RPM or less.

    The normal plug wire positions are; the # 1 cylinder (closest to the fan belt) plug wire is at 12 o'clock on the distributor cap. The # 3 cylinder (closest to the distributor) plug wire is at 8 o'clock on the cap. And the # 2 cylinder (center cylinder) plug wire is at 4 o'clock on the cap. The distributor rotor rotates counter-clockwise.

    If you've checked and applied all the above information; and the motor still does not run with the distributor set in the normal range; see where the ignition timing now runs best when checked with a strobe timing light. If it is advanced a lot (notch on the pulley is further to the left than the stock setting on the degree scale) from the stock setting; then move the timing belt back to the stock setting, and try moving all the plug wires one position clockwise in the cap, and then turn the distributor back to the stock range. See if it now runs well like that.

    But with the timing belt still set one tooth off; if the motor now runs best when the ignition timing is very retarded from the stock setting (mark on the pulley is located to the right on the degree scale from the stock mark); set the timing belt back to the stock position, and move the plug wires one position counterclockwise on the distributor cap, and then turn the distributor back to the stock range. See if it now runs well like that.

    Let me know how it all turns out.
  • trmechantrmechan Posts: 5
    edited June 2010
    For Zenden and Zaken1 I think I found the problem. Will checking cam timming once again, and checking timming marks on crankshaft I found that the key for the crank gear was broken. Both the gear and the crank are badly worn from the key working around. Know I will have to decide what to do with the vehical.
    Fix or Junk.
    Thanks to both of you for your very good and experienced help.
  • thebeechboysthebeechboys Posts: 2
    edited July 2010
    I am looking to purchase a 4 door Geo Metro LSI with automatic trans not sure of the year, early 91 with 43,000 miles. When driving the car and accelerating after a red light or stop sign, there is a rattling noise that sound like it is comimg from the right side of the engine near the upper right cowl. I was told it might be a loose bolt in the cowl. I do not agree with this? The rattling noise is of fairly short duration and occurs almost 100% of the time. Otherwise the car runs very well.
    The noise occurs with the a/c on and off. There were a few times when going around the corner that I had the impression that the source of the noise moved from the right side to the left. I suspect perhaps a loose crankshaft pulley, a slipping alternator belt, perhaps an engine mount, the transmission shifting is smooth and positive and the problem is ther in all gear positions. Your opinion appreciated...thanks
  • Correct the year of this geo to 1997 LSI Auto Trans..thanks
  • dan967dan967 Posts: 3
    Hi,
    I have a Chevrolet Geo Metro sedane, 1,3 ltr, 1997 and I have this problem :
    Sometime when outside is very hot, durring the summer time, and I drive slowly(trafic) the rpm decreases and the engine stop. When I start again the engine, that run perfect another 30 seconds and after this the problem start again. My mechanic scan the engine and find evrything perfect. No Error code. I already chek the EGR valve, the catalizator and the IDLE control solenoid, and all this is perfect.
    Can somebody help me, please?
  • dan967dan967 Posts: 3
    Hi,
    I have a Chevrolet Geo Metro sedane, 1,3 ltr, 1997 and I have this problem :
    Sometime when outside is very hot, durring the summer time, and I drive slowly(trafic) the rpm decreases and the engine stop. When I start again the engine, that run perfect another 30 seconds and after this the problem start again. My mechanic scan the engine and find evrything perfect. No Error code. I already chek the EGR valve, the catalizator and the IDLE control solenoid, and all this is perfect.
    Can somebody help me, please?
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    This could be caused by several different things. The first thing I would do is to replace the fuel filter and the air filter. If that does not solve the problem, I would replace the spark plugs, the distributor cap and rotor, and the spark plug wires. It is very important to only use the following recommended spark plugs. Most spark plugs will be too hot for this motor, and will break down (especially in hot weather). I would not copy whatever plug is now being used; but would instead recommend Autolite # 63, or # AP63; or ACDelco # R42XLS or ACDelco Rapidfire # 4; or Bosch Super Plus # 7901 (WR7DC+); or Champion # 415 (RN9YC). Some of these are not the numbers recommended in the books; but I have found that many manufacturer's recommended plugs for the Metro are too hot for this motor; and the plug numbers listed here are the ones I know from my own experience will work properly. The plug gap should be set to .039" (1.0mm).

    The ignition timing on this motor cannot be properly checked or adjusted without first disabling the electronic spark advance circuit (by shorting the check connector terminals). If the timing is adjusted without first disabling the electronic advance; it will end up being set too far retarded. And that could cause the problem you describe.

    Let me know what you try, and what the results are.
  • dan967dan967 Posts: 3
    Thank you zaken1 !!
    I want to tell you that I just changed from 3-4 months the fuell pump, the fuell filtrer,the air filtrer and the distributor cap and rotor. Now I will check what you sugest me and I will call you back.
    Thanks zaken1 !
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    It sounds like a an idle air control problem (IAC). If this be the case, it would be doing it when the eng is trying to find its correct idle point; not when your foot would be on the gas. Dose the problem start happening when your foot is off the gas? When it starts doing it, will it clear up and run right when you push back on the gas if the RPM is above 600 or so, but not if below 600? To figure out if I am on the right track; Question: Hot or cold, does this car have any abnormalities in its idle control? If so,. Have a mechanic test the values of air intake Temp, coolant temp, TPS, AC/ idle control and in accordance with its idle stop setting. Any one of the above and more may not set a code. Possibly your mechanic dose not have the correct scan tool to properly diog., or did not take the time to test. I would like zaken1 to farther assist you on this if possible. I do not always receive my emails and or have limited time to respond. Thank god for Smell check!
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    edited July 2010
    This sounds to me like it might be pinging (otherwise known as preignition knock). This noise is created by the pressure wave from the burning fuel in the cylinders striking the pistons while they are still moving upwards. That can either be caused by ignition timing which is set too far advanced, or by the use of too low a fuel octane. The volume of the noise from pinging will become louder; the harder you press on the accelerator. Because of this issue; Metros are known to run better and get better mileage on premium fuel than they do on regular. Try a full tankful of major brand premium fuel and see what this does for the noise. Shell, Chevron, Texaco, or Sunoco are the best brands. I would also recommend adding a bottle of Chevron Techron fuel injector and combustion chamber cleaner to the fuel tank just before filling the tank. This product will gradually clean out carbon deposits in the next 50-75 miles of driving; which will reduce the engine's tendency to ping, and will also make it run smoother and have more power. Techron works better than other products of its type; so it is worth going out of your way to find it. Sold at Chevron gas stations, Checker, Shucks, Kragen, Murray, Auto Zone, and O'Reilly Auto parts stores, and Wal-Mart.
  • aaron42aaron42 Posts: 1
    when ever i try to turn on i have to try a couple of times until it actually does, then after it turns on i run it and everything is fine, it is not til the engine get hot to running level that if i stop it will turn off, then i have a hard time turning it on , it takes a while and many tries for it to turn on. or if i drive somewhere and the engine is hot and i park and then try to turn it back on after a couple of minutes, it also wont turn on.

    my check engine light is on and i took it to auto zone to get it checked and they told me that they where not picking up a signal from the car. so basically my question is, has anybody had this problem and had it fixed. or is there a fuse that can be replaced so that the diagnostic can be read
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    It is not a fuse that is bad! Most of the time if we can not communicate with a car it is because there is a bad ground in the diagnostic connector circuit. Or a cheep scan tool that is being used to test with; or a tool that is not compatible to interface with your system. If I where you and wanted to diog. my own car the cheapest way possible. I would find a mechanic who does diagnostic work everyday; approach him about an hour before closing shop. Ask him if he would have the time to be able to scan your car for you before he closes today. Many mechanics don't mind helping if they only had the time to, and scanning your car is quick and easy; Finding the fix is the time consuming. To do a scan, where I live, would be a small charge of $20.00 or less, most of the time; No Charge at all.
  • alniteralniter Posts: 8
    I replaced the muffler and back half of the exhaust system on my 2000 Metro hatchback. The original was one piece, but all the replacements I could find were two pieces, with the pipe from one half sliding into the pipe from the other just in front of the back wheel, with a U-bolt to join them. Unfortunately, the pipe is in such a tight channel in the undercarriage that with the U-bolt attached, it rattles bigtime, all the time, eventually shaking the U-bolt loose. Are there less bulky joiners out there that will really hold? Welding is out, but it just isn't working as is.

    Thanks for input,
    Steve in Florida
  • any ideas on how to restore a sun baked dash,,??,,,overhauling engine this winter,what kind of rings should i use, and grit( 320-180 ect) 4 cleaning up cyl walls,,,,,and how big a job replacing stock gauges 4 on with tach,have tach cluster already,,,,sold my 69 amx 4 some mpg, this is a great car as well,everything works fine a/c is cold,runs fine,only prob, its not 400 hp,,lol
  • suz13suz13 Posts: 10
    I bought a standard car vinyl rejuvinater in a bottle. Standard stuff, applied it daily for a few weeks, then once a month. It's never been perfect but close enough. I have a theory that the original "baking" had something to do with the defrosters air waves because I can see a pattern from where that air comes out of. I am not so sure it is from sun-baking at all. I believe a prior owner let the antifreeze run out and when the radiator went kerfewy it emitted fumes that caused this dried out pattern. I did exactly that to my Plymouth Sundance and thats what the dashboard looked like after I replaced the radiator ! (my bad!) haha.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    In order to know what to do with the cylinders; you need to measure the cylinder taper. If it has more than .002" taper; then it will have to be rebored to an oversize. I would not recommend just replacing the rings at 188,000 miles. Japanese engines tend to develop looseness in the ring grooves; which will make new rings wobble and leak compression when they are installed on an old piston. The maximum clearance limit on the piston ring grooves is .007" on the top ring, and .006" on the second ring. If the ring grooves are worn, the pistons and rings should both be replaced. I would use stock specification rings (that may be all that is available on this motor).

    I would not recommend using sandpaper for cleaning up the cylinder walls. A hone is the proper tool to use for this operation. Hones with stones tend to cut and will loosen up the piston clearance; so a ball hone may be more appropriate for just removing glaze and roughing up the surface. Be sure to keep moving the hone up and down through the full depth of the cylinder; in order to create a cross hatch pattern. I would also check the valve stem to guide clearance; as they tend to get loose and will lead to inconsistent valve sealing. These motors are more precisely machined than American iron; and are far more critical on the fit and clearances of parts.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    First of all, www.rockauto.com probably carries a one piece cat back exhaust for your Metro. (At least; they have them for many other Metro models); but I just mentioned that as general information, not because I'd expect you to trash what you bought. Secondly; your report sounds like the muffler you now have is not properly supported. Metros originally come with flexible supports for the front and back end of the muffler; which use strong rubber bands to tie the muffler to the body. These supports are essential to damp out vibration input, and to prevent such events as the muffler shaking so severely that clamp nuts loosen. If your muffler is not supported in this manner, and you were able to clamp the joint so securely that it did not vibrate loose; the vibration would then be transferred to the muffler inlet pipe, which would eventually fracture from the stress and probably break the case or the inlet weld. So, in that sense, the clamp nuts loosening served as a mechanical "safety valve" which prevented the muffler's destruction. A good muffler shop (such as Meineke) should be able to install proper supports at an affordable cost. I would strongly recommend doing this before making any effort to strengthen or secure the clamping.

    There are two things you can do to strengthen the joint. One would be to apply high strength Loctite to the U-bolt threads. Loctite is a liquid adhesive which is intended to secure threaded parts from vibrating loose. It is applied to the threads just before installing the nut. It is sold at auto parts stores which serve professional mechanics and machine shops, and comes in several different strengths. For your application, I would use the formula which is called # 271 in their industrial line; or sometimes referred to as "high strength" or "stud and bearing mount" in their consumer line. But this product will make it VERY difficult to remove the nuts, if it ever becomes necessary.

    There is also a different type of clamp called a "band clamp" that is used by hot rodders and racers to create a strong, leak free joint on exhaust pipes. They are available in two types; butt joint, for pipes which are not inserted together; or lap joint, for pipes which slip into each other. Here's a photo of a lap joint clamp (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-692200/?rtype=10). Unfortunately, this type of clamp is typically made in 2" and larger diameters. My 1990 Metro muffler inlet pipe is 1.5" OD, and the muffler outlet pipe is 1 5/8" OD. I expect yours is the same. However there are narrower band clamps which are available in sizes to fit your pipe. Here's a photo of one that would be suitable (http://secure.chassisshop.com/partrelate/C73-306/). You could use two of these clamps to make a pretty strong joint by cutting a metal can lengthwise, wrapping it around the joint, and securing it with a clamp over the muffler pipe, and another one right alongside it, over the exhaust pipe.
  • alniteralniter Posts: 8
    The band clamp sounds best, I found them online and will doublecheck diameters before ordering (no one carries them locally it seems). The U-bolt has to go regardless because of the width of it causing vibration in the channel.

    Had I known about the u-bolt clamp issue I probably would have sent the exhaust pieces back. They are indeed from Rockauto, and are illustrated as one piece on their site. Live & learn. I think the band clamp will make it work fine though. Thanks!

    Steve
  • thanx i will try , or better dash,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,masivmpg
  • deamar4deamar4 Posts: 1
    Hi all, I am new to the group. my daughters metro has thrown a check engine light that i am told is a vacuum leak. the car generally spits a little white smoke on starting but runs like a champ. she says its spitting black smoke now. I am told this is due to it running w/ the leak.
    other than general inspection of hoses, what all can I check for vacuum leaks? in searching for cracks etc., is there a way cheater way to look for a leak? btw, seems to still run fine, not sluggish or rough. as described to me via code, large vacuum leak is the code. Thanks for any help
  • dags123dags123 Posts: 2
    i have had my 1992 geo metro xfi rear wheel bearing has not been able to stay fixed , longest is a month.last was 20 miles or less. i suspect the aftermarket wheel drum,(not positive and ill check this but i think its mostly just one each time( the inner bearing )but please give me info and ideas for both inner and outer as i may be wrong.the spindle im told by the mechanic is fine . he replaced the inner and outer and the break drum last time he told me he replaced all because it was warrented.and lasted 20 miles.this really sux bad now the 5th time
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    Some of these bearings do not come pre-lubricated; and must be packed with lubricant before installation. The other issue with Metro wheel bearings is that they are available from manufacturers in several different countries. My mechanic will only use the ones which are made in Japan; although he usually tries to save money; so when he only uses Japanese bearings; you can be sure he has good reasons to do so.
  • Some times the spindle, sometimes the drum is wore out( as in the bearing floats around in the drum ) that is most likely it; or the mechanic is pounding them in with a hammer!. Or over tightening them. nothing else will do that other then no grease.
  • I have replaced the Starter, Alternator and battery.
    All I get is a clicking at the fuse box under the hood when I turn the ignition.
    Battery has a full charge. Once started the vehicle seems to run fine. Is there some other silinoid or switch I need to check?
  • i hope this is it... i questioned him on what replacement parts he used and it seems they were using 1990 geo metro and not geo metro 1992 xfi. as there were 2 different part numbers, so i hope this is it, and i'll update in a month if it works. it was close enough that it lasted about 1.5 months the third time,,( 3600 miles),, then the 4th time only about 25 miles. ()
  • my 92 Geo metro 1.0 liter automatic last week lost a lot of power while i was driving down the road something just happened so i checked the plugs and they were fine and the distributor cap was fine to and while idling in park and in drive the engine shakes pretty bad. the check engine light is also on. what are some things i can do to narrow down the problem.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    You can, of course, retrieve the trouble code that triggered the check engine light and look up its meaning. That would require you to do some research on how to short the check connector to retrieve trouble codes, and also to get a list of trouble code meanings on OBD1 Metros. But this information is commonly available in the Metro service manual and on many online sites. Once you have this information; you'll be that much more self sufficient.

    Another thing you can do is to run a cylinder compression check. The stock compression pressure on this motor is 195psi. If any cylinder pressure is below 165psi; or if there is more than 15% difference between any 2 cylinder pressures; the motor will have to be repaired mechanically (which usually requires reconditioning the cylinder head) before it can run properly.

    A clogged fuel filter can also cause such a problem; so I would replace the fuel filter (located along the fuel line under the car, on the driver's side, just in front of the fuel tank). There is a metal cover plate underneath the fuel filter, which is held on by two or three bolts. It usually is helpful to remove the right rear tire to access the filter. You'll also need some golf tees, bolts, or similar items to plug the fuel hose when the filter is disconnected. Otherwise; lots of gasoline will run down your arm and onto the ground (especially if there is a lot of fuel in the tank).

    I would also recommend measuring the resistance of the spark plug cables with an ohmmeter. There should be less than 1,000 ohms for each inch of wire length. If the resistance of any wire exceeds that standard; replace all the wires (including the coil wire).

    The vacuum hose that runs from the back of the intake manifold on the passenger side to the MAP sensor on the firewall may have fallen off or broken. The wiring harness electrical plug at that sensor may also have come loose. Or any other vacuum hose may be leaking.

    The EGR valve may have stuck partly open; so it would be worthwhile to reach under the EGR valve diaphragm, and work the diaphragm through its entire range of travel to make sure it opens and closes freely. If it binds; the EGR valve should be removed and thoroughly cleaned.

    If you make all of the above checks and they all come out OK; I would question your observation that the plugs and distributor cap were good. Sometimes a spark plug can develop a tiny whisker of carbon between the electrodes. That can completely shut down a cylinder. Other times, if the plug gap has eroded to the point where it is too large; the plug can suddenly stop firing; but will still look good. Also; if you use NGK plugs in this motor, they are known to lose insulation resistance and suddenly quit for no apparent reason. For this reason; I always recommend that people not use NGK plugs in Metro motors. The preferred plug is Autolite # 63, or Autolite platinum # AP63, or # APP63. The plug gap should be set to 1.0mm (.039").

    Metros can be extremely sensitive to the insulation of the distributor cap or rotor. A tiny carbon track on the inside surface between two contacts will shut down 2 cylinders. A crack in the rotor underneath the blade will do the same thing. There are several cheap replacment brands of Metro caps which will misfire when they are brand new. So I will either buy a Borg Warner # C716, or Beck Arnley # 1746959 cap from Checker, Shucks, Kragen, Murray, or O'Reilly, along with a Borg Warner # D682 rotor; or spend a bunch more to buy a comparable quality Echlin # EP854 cap and EP855 rotor from a NAPA parts store.

    The timing belt might have jumped out of position; causing this type of problem; but that is much less likely than the above possibilities.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    If the timing belt slipped; the compression on ALL the cylinders would be below the minimum allowable limit (even if the valves and head were in good condition). If you find the compression to be low like this; turn the crankshaft pulley (this may require a wrench on the crank pulley bolt or turning the alternator or water pump pulley) until the timing marks line up at about 5 degrees BTDC. Then remove the distributor cap and see where the tip of the rotor is pointing. The rotor should either point straight up (to the distributor cap terminal for the # 1 cylinder plug wire) or straight down (to the distributor cap terminal for the # 3 cylinder plug wire). If the crank pulley is set on 5 degrees BTDC and the rotor doesn't point exactly to one of those two terminals; but instead points anywhere else; the timing belt has jumped out of position; and it will have to be replaced. After the timing belt is replaced and properly tightened and positioned; the compression should return to normal. But replacing the timing belt will not improve the compression in a motor where the timing belt has not jumped out of synch.
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    edited September 2010
    Sounds like a dead miss; I would guess the check eng light was on before the eng started missing. That is because a 92 GEO ECM wont detect a dead miss and set a code. So if I am right don't worry yet what code is stored. Just go back to the basics first, Test for spark at each plug; the easiest way is before starting the eng make sure that all plug wires are easy removable from the Distributer cap ( the easier, the better.) The reason for this is, I will teach you how to remove each spark plug wire from the cap while it is running without getting a shock. The reason for testing this way, is to listen for the variation of the speed of the eng while idling. The more variations (as in slowing down or cutting out) when pulling off a wire the stronger that cylinder is. The less of a variation (as in no change) in RPM then that is the dead cylinder; and needs farther investigation; (as in a cracked bad plug bad wire, cracked cap or bad rotor.)

    Never pull off a plug wire from a spark plug when running, only pull them from the distributer cap side. This is because the power is looking for the best or closes conductor of ground, and you don't want to be it. By pulling it from the cap when running you will not get a shock unless you get between the two connecters that you have separated. Just keep your cool pay attention and amaze your friends that watch: you can become confident with this and learn from your mistakes; with a little conmen sense and practice you can test your eng better and faster then your mechanic that is amassed at how you do this. You must hold a grip on the wire about 1 inch behind the boot and pull it off while it is running. I always make sure that my other body parts are not touching the car and that I am not bare footed or standing in water. I am sure that you think that I am joking But I am not, I have been doing this for 43 years and have not been shocked since I was 16 years old. I am just giving you a most useful tip that identifies a miss. You should not do this on the more sophisticated electronic controlled automobiles; but you can do this on your GEO and it wont mind. If when you pull a wire there is no spark or variation, then you have a bad wire or something wrong under the cap that is preventing the completion of the power to that plug. If you pull the wire half way off and watch the spark jump and you here the eng clear up and run good while watching the spark jump, then it is a bad plug or something cause that plug to not spark well, low compression because burnt or stuck valve, or carbon sticking that valve open a little or a big list of things that can cause compression loss. Also at times improper fuel mixture to that Cyl. from a vacuum leak or a combination of things creating an imbalance and picking on the weakest one. The GEO 3 cyl needs all three to be strong; If not! you will surely feel that imbalance.

    I hope that I have made all of this clear for you to understand; any questions about it just ask. Please let me know how it goes. Good luck!
  • My 2001 Metro died yesterday it was 135000 miles on it. It cranks over but will not start. Up to this point it ran fine. It would some times have a surging feeling when you would be driving along. It has been doing that for a couple of years on and off. It looks as thought the timing belt is ok. I tried to hook up an ODBII scan tool and it would not communicate with the computer. I check the ODB and it works fine in other cars. Where do I start?
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    The crankshaft position sensor has probably failed. This is an easy part to change. It is available under Borg Warner part # CSS70 for $77.99 from Checker, Shucks, Kragen, Murray, or O'reilly auto parts store.

    Another, less likely possibility is that the fuel pump relay has failed.
  • Engine cranks, does not show the cluster lights and does not start. This happened last night when I was wiring in a plug for a new stereo. I turned the key to test it and noticed it had no cluster lights. I turned the key to start and the engine cranks but nothing. All help appreciated!
  • depattdepatt Posts: 6
    My 92 geo metro starts and runs fine for several miles. Suddenly there is no response to the gas pedal. I can go 10-15 mph if I nurse the pedal at one spot. After the engine sits for a while it starts up and runs normally til it happens again. I have replaced plugs, air filter, a dirty inline gas filter in the engine compartment (add on?), distributor cap and rotor. If I put the car in neutral when it happens, the engine will rev up normally...drop it into drive and it spits, sputters and barely has enough power to move. After I nurse it home and it sits for a while, it starts and runs normally again. Anybody have any ideas. No check engine code.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    I don't know if you're still looking for an answer; but the other parts which could cause this problem are the neutral safety switch (only used on automatic transmission vehicles) or the clutch pedal position switch (only used on manual transmission vehicles). The ignition switch could also cause this; if the start contacts have failed.

    My manual transmission Metro has done this when I had a carpet on the floor; which was thick enough that it prevented the clutch pedal from going all the way down. That kept the clutch pedal position switch from engaging when the pedal was pressed down. I eventually bypassed the clutch switch by shorting the two wires together which went to that switch. Took a little while for me to get used to the fact that the starter would run whenever the ignition switch was turned; regardless of whether the clutch pedal was up or down.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    Please check the 20 amp yellow ignition fuse in the underhood fuse block. Chances are you blew it out by shorting something while you wired up the stereo. Sometimes a blown fuse may still look good to the eye; so try replacing the ignition fuse with a known good one of the same rating. If the fuse blows repeatedly; you may have to disconect and repair the stereo plug wiring, or the stereo may be defective.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    edited October 2010
    There is another inline gas filter underneath the car, on the driver's side, just in front of the rear tire. It has a metal shield covering it underneath; which is held on by about two bolts. The rear tire may have to be removed in order to access the filter. I bet that filter is even dirtier than the add on one you replaced. This filter is specially designed for the Metro, comes with a mounting bracket and curved spigots which fit in the small space; and has a finer filtering media that other filters. It is easiest if the fuel tank is low on fuel when you change this filter (or the front of the car is higher than the rear); as gas will run out of the lines as soon as you disconnect them. So wear rubber gloves and have rags handy, as well as golf tees or small bolts to plug the lines. I would also briefly remove and replace the fuel filler cap before changing the filter, as this will relieve any air pressure which has built up in the tank.
  • depattdepatt Posts: 6
    I had high hopes for the rear gas filter. It was clear and did not appear to be very old.
    Next guess???
  • a month or so ago after filling the tank.with 87 g fuel.i jumped on freeway on ramp, as i begain to accillerate,the motor started cutting out in bad way..so i punched even harder & more demanding thinking &hoping this was goingto be a quick tempory faze .do to alittle dirt or maybe bad gas.it sputtered some more almost vilently,then it smoothed out &i got on down the road &my day &didnt give it another thought ,that day...then two days later on an early morning donut run almost as soon as i begain to drive it was back in a worse way i couldnt keep it running kep t dieing as soon as i attemped to put it in drive.i had it towed to alocal shop which tried chargin me 90 bucks &could nt find any thingv wrong .i discovered my cusion terry who owns a shop & installed the new rebuilt motor didnt install a fuel filter...so i spliced anew one in.& it seemed to resolve the issue for a day.so i then re placed the pricy little camshaft positon senser.& that resolved the ssue for almost twob months or so.the last week or so its been leading back to it &as of last nite.after filling up on gas its back!!! help fellas&or gals if any one can lead me in a good way to resolving this b.s.id be gratful.its driving me crazy.peacen& have a good day every body.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    If your spark plugs haven't been replaced in the last 30,000 miles; this would definitely cause the symptoms you're reporting.

    If the original fuel filter (located underneath your car on the fuel line, on the drivers side in front of the fuel tank) became clogged up with dirt; cutting the fuel hose under the hood and splicing in a new filter there will do absolutely nothing to make the fuel flow through the old, plugged up filter: So the fuel line is still plugged up!!! You need to replace the original fuel filter with a new part that is designed to fit in the original location.
  • 80K mile and very little problems until now. Cruising down the hwy @ 60 mph and engine died with no advance systems. Main 60 amp fuse and 15 amp FI fuse were blown. I have replaced the 60 amp and it seams fine. But when I replace the 15 amp FI fuse it blows at once. So its diffently a dead short. Cranks fine but no spark. No power to coil. Any Ideas out their. Could the coil in the throttle body injector have shorted out? I'm not sure where to start except to follow out the fi wiring circuit with a test light to see what I can find but cannot power the circuit up?
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    First check your oil, if it is very low it may shut down the system. If there are no trouble codes stored check for ignition spark, then test for signal at injectors with a noid light, it can be loaned to you from AutoZone for free. If all are ok do a fuel pump test; First listen under the car or in the fuel tank fill for the pump to come on when you have someone turn the key too the ignition position. The pump will come on for 2 too 5 seconds. If you here the pump come on then you need to test for pressure. Part of a pressure test is to test the pressure regulator; you can test for a malfunction of the regulator by overriding it. There are 2 fuel lines attached to the fuel rail 1 thick and the return line that is thin; squeeze the small fuel line with a pair of vice grips attached, then try to start the car. if it starts then you need a fuel pressure regulator. If no start then the next step is to test the pressure. A car needs a few things to run. enough fuel pressure, a signal to the injector, compression, proper valve timing, a strong enough ignition spark; preferably blue or white in color that will jump a half inch or more, and a battery that is strong enough to crank the eng. Test for these things and I will answer more questions. Good luck
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    I suppose the injector driver coil could have shorted out; but that is rather unlikely. You could check that by disconnecting the harness plug for the injector, and then replacing the fuse to see if it blows again when the key is turned on. But I also would suggest disconnecting the power wire to the alternator, and then replacing the fuse and seeing whether it still blows.

    There is also a finned silver colored heat sink mounted on the firewall or the driver's side inner fender next to the fuse box; which contains the injector resistor. I think that part is more likely to have shorted out than anything else.
  • Thanks Guys,for all the good input,&feed back concerning My trubled fuel system.I did manage to find what I belive is the original fuel filter.please correct Me if Im wrong..It as Zaken1 did indacate was located in front of the fuel tank.Im puzzled though.this looks nothing like what i was sold at the parts store,( the one I spliced in up front.) this one is plastic,white ,It is 3&a half inches,bye 2&a half inches& a little under an inch deep.on one side area seris of numbers.then alittle lower are the words SAE. HOPE+PA6.And made in canada.On the other side are images of 3 clocks i belive.when I removed the two hoses from this part there was no fuel on or in either hose.bone dry.&although the part smelled alittle like gas,it too was dry.The screw,or bolt was a real B.....! to get to.almost like a bad joke,please fellas tell Me am I on the right track,or once again learning as I go & in error.Thanks golddreger.
  • hey whats up every body?more new news for us all to consider.throu a very good source im being told,some cars from 90s-now are built with out a fuel filter,& 2000 chevy metro happens to be one ofr them.If this new info is true.,then it looks like we can stand to learn somthing here.Right Fellas?Its true none of us are ever to wise,or to old to learn somthing from each other.Late My Friends Im in double over time,&must get My car running.advice is great& I apprecate it,&thank you all.But those who read this who know God please pray for Me.
  • zaken1zaken1 Posts: 556
    Well, I looked up this claim, and found to my surprise that it is right! Apparently, the 1989-96 Geo Metros were made with fuel filters; but the 1997-2001 Chevy Metros did not have fuel filters. Instead of an external fuel filter, they had a fuel pump with a filter screen in the fuel tank. Here's a link to a photo of the 2000 Metro 4 cylinder in tank fuel pump and filter: (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=90612).

    The other cars I have seen without fuel filters were all 2001 and later; but the Metro seems to have been an exception.

    HOWEVER, if your Metro was not made with an external fuel filter; then there would not be anything on the fuel line in front of the tank. If the part you found only had two hoses attached to it, and did not have any electrical wires; it MUST be a filter. So I would connect a clean hose on the inlet end and try blowing through it. If it doesn't easily allow air to pass; then it is clogged and must be replaced. Take the part to a parts store and get the closest filter that will match. Sometimes cars have parts on them which were not supposed to be there. This can happen if a car was reconstructed from used parts after an accident; or if someone modified it. And sometimes the parts catalogs have errors in them.

    If the part you found also has an electrical connector on it; that is not a filter; but is the external fuel pump which was used on older Geo Metros. Those fuel pumps sometimes go bad (as.also do the pumps in the fuel tank). You can have the pump pressure and output volume tested by a shop.
  • fawkinnewguyfawkinnewguy Posts: 1
    edited October 2010
    I was leaving work the other night and I heard a ping noise from the engine compartment. The car started running rough and backfiring through what sounded like the carb. It was 4am and I was in the middle of nowhere so I drove it the rest of the way home about 15 miles. It was lacking serious power and backfired when i gave it gas, it didn't smoke out the tail pipe. Any ideas? also my service engine light came on. It has a 4 cyl engine.
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