Lets talk media
Do you think the media plays a role on how a car manufacturer is perceived? Do you see bias in reports/reviews? If so please post them here and tell us your story..
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"One day in February I got a message from a woman named Jennifer. As messages go, it was a good one. She worked for Volvo of North America, and she wanted to fly me to Phoenix for a three-day stay in a first-class hotel, all expenses paid... It would have been a cryptic message, but I had already been on one Volvo press trip, and I knew immediately that I had just been offered a cushy free vacation. All Volvo wanted, in return, was for me to mention their car in a national publication. Or, to put it bluntly, all they wanted was my journalistic integrity"
zpedia.org via the web archive
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/10/toyota_accelerate.html
You are absolutely right. It is just sorting out the truth from the paid commercials. You should read the article Steve posted on trips the automakers provide for writers. If I was treated to an all expense paid trip and given a new car to check out, I would have a hard time giving the car a bad report.
Dudes, last time I checked some of us had some gray matter still operating up there. Let's put some work in to these articles and see if someone else in America might be able to work through their own manufacturer bias.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
So ultimately, once a car hits the road and is in service for a while, the truth comes out regardless of what the media says about it.
The media cannot destroy or make a car's reputation, but it can give it a good push or trip it up in the beginning.
Blaming the media for a car's poor performance or its exceptionally good performance is just grasping at straws IMO.
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
We can also think of any number of American cars that the media loved but that failed anyway (Dodge Neon comes to mind, right?). As well as cars they loved that DID succeed (PT Cruiser) as well as cars the hated and that failed (SSR?).
I can't think of one they hated and that DID succeed in spite of very bad press, however....anyone?
You could not be more wrong about this.
Our National Testing and Research Center, in Yonkers, N.Y., is the largest nonprofit educational and consumer product testing center in the world. We buy all the products we use as test samples. We receive no special treatment. We accept no free samples. If a manufacturer sends us a free product, we return it.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/aboutus/mission/overview/index.htm
If you have credible evidence that suggests CR doesn't adhere to this policy, by all means, let's see it.
I like this thread in theory, as long as all the conspiracy buffs back up their accusations with something substantial.
CU supports itself through the sale of our information products and services, individual contributions, and a few noncommercial grants.
That's Ford as in Henry, Edsel, Bill, et.al. Guess CR loves Ford cars eh?
You can glean some other info from a non-profit's IRS Form 990 (pdf link and it may not resolve). For example, Consumers Union paid ~3 million last year for search engine optimization services. :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
But if the Accord is a stinker and the Camry is good, the "word" is soon out on the street.....
And besides, the media loves to bad-rap a car. If the Accord were a bad car, the press would like to tear it apart. Dog bites man isn't a story, (far too common) but man bites dog is a story.
Yes there is hype...but the media can't make something out of nothing...even Paris Hilton goes to jail eventually.
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
I would say at one time in America this was true. Tune into CNN, Fox, MSN, CBS etc and you will get a different bias from each journalist. It would be good if we got the news without bias. That does not seem to be what people want these days. Same goes for cars. Even though the difference in reliability may be very slight between two cars, by the time the writer gets done you think one car is worthless and the other should sell for twice the price. Very little truth and a lot of spin.
So there ya go, some may even remember this going back to your 9 or 10 year old ages during elementary school, but not for me quite yet. These interchanges of opinions really amped up when I got in junior high and high school. Then it became hog-wild, and of course one will notice it more if you truly like cars more than...ummm...sports or music, for instance. Or like cars just as much. Then you'll listen more to people's opinions on rigs.
But for me things change when I am really interested in a product. Then I want all the reading material I can find and no, I don't think it's smart to just read one favorite source. Look at many, many sources and be prepared to be able to cut through unbridled automotive bias in order to find more of the truth you can really put to use.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Me personally?...I think 99% of all cars get what they deserve, good and bad, without any help from the media one way or the other. It just takes time for all that to spin itself out. The mags see a new model, praise it, only to find out 6 months later it has defects; or they pan a car, only to find out people love it.
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
Then I still hold a grudge against Nader for his ignorance concerning the Corvair. I would bet there are more well kept Corvairs still running great than any Japanese cars from that era. I doubt that a 1964 Corvair would have left me stranded as many times as my 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser.
As for the Corvair, typical GM story---potentially great car that was underdeveloped, then abandoned. Nader just picked the biggest target, but he could have chosen any number of defective cars from any number of manufacturers, domestic and foreign. GM played that whole thing so badly, it's incredible. They gave Nader the power he needed on a silver platter by putting private detectives on his tail.
The media grabbed THAT one, you can be sure!
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
Case in point, Toyota's stock value of around $120.00/share right now. Yikes. When GM's is moving about around $32.00/share or thereabouts. Sales hype or real sales? Both.
Toyota is the media's automotive darling, but is it kind of over-rated? About 400% over-rated, even?
I mean, how often have you heard the press praise Toyota automotive products? And yet not talk about engine sludge issues or other blunders? How many times have you read comments like the one I'm making right now?
I agree, it's a broken record...but it wouldn't need to be made if the media scanned and researched and recast their fishing poles for better information. Truer information.
Less bias, more substance.These next few years are gonna be fun to follow in the automotive industry. More substance at all times, media types. Let's cut way down on the Toyota fluff and let's get down to brass tacks. There's a lot at stake...a lot of jobs... and a lot of history hanging on what eventually happens.
It's about time to get real, isn't it?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Besides all that, the American consumer is not stupid....he/she knows the buy the best car for the money...that was not the Renault LeCar, it was not the Dodge Neon, it was the Honda Accord.
But let's say you're RIGHT....that the media favors Toyota.
The reason for that might also have nothing to do with conspiracy. The reason might be:
Everybody loves a winner....
it's a form of celebrity in other words....
MrShiftright
Just Visiting
I will simply add that the next few months and next few years are going to be very, very interesting to watch because now Mr.Alan Mulally must make some hay from his millions for Fo-Mo-Co and not just his own pocketbook.
GM needs to continue to win back(or start winning back)American car buyers and I see some decent new product arriving. Saturn's lineup has never looked better to me before...at least on the net. More good choices available because these carmakers need to put up or go home. It's playoff time!
That's what I'm saying..let's keep brass-tacking for solid results. I am wondering if Toyota can stay on top and if people are gonna do more research before "family" buying or just buying what people tell them are good cars.
Heck, I truly believe my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is a good car and Mitsubishi was talked about having to pull out of the American car market. There's a lot of Japanese pride being hammered in to those rigs. I am very, very impressed with my Lancer GTS.
I agree Toyota is a celebrity and the media is impressed. Let's find some more info. and solid anchorages in this scene is all I'm saying. Cut through the fluff a tad more.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
http://world.honda.com/news/2004/c040630.html
500,000 Honda vehicles are a few??
This is just one link.. there are more to older gen Honda products with automatic transmission issues.. Google it!
And I say that as someone who had one of those transmissions. It wasn't the first van I had transmissions on. That was a Ford and you would have thought I was a leper the way Ford treated me. Honda immediately agreed to the replacement and rented me a vehicle while it was in the shop. Total time - 2 days. Total expense - zero.
When I look in the vans forums I see the Honda transmission one, but I also see a transmissions issue on every van. On most other vans there are dozens of other common defects.
Can Honda make a mistake? You bet. Do they know hpw to treat a customer under such circumstances? Enough that when I replaced the van I bought another Ody.
Basically it goes like this. You buy a dog and he bites every member of your family, sometimes REALLY badly. Even an occasional mauling.
So..... You take him to a specialist, he goes away to Dog Rehab for 2-3 years and finally the trainers/experts bring him back and say: "He's perfectly fine now. Look, here are videos of him playing frisbee, and one of our staff took him home for two weeks and he didn't bite anybody".
But you know, the Big Three is like that dog. He's very cute and we'd all like to pet him but many of us don't trust him enough to take him back in the house with the kids.
When Toyota says "Okay we screwed up, but it's FIXED!", for some reason I believe that.
When the Big Three says the exact same thing, I scrunch up my face and go...."yeah, rigggghhhhttttt....."
Terrible, isn't it?
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
The same holds true for cars.
If Toyota's weren't worth a premium over their competitors, people wouldn't pay the premium. We may have different values though, which is why we don't all drive Camrys.
I concur. People will hear what they want to hear. Some people think Consumer Reports is garbage until it reports something they agree with, then they change their minds.
Fickle Public!
So it's "perception" but there's also reality, since people get to "test" their perception about a car, whereas they don't often get to "test" their perceptions about global warming or evolution or whether Politician X really is taking bribes or what is really happening in Mongolia.
I think it's harder to sway public opinion about things they have a reasonable chance of testing themselves.
This is why I believe that the Big Three is actually suffering from a consumer boycott, not a media conspiracy.
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
Someone once questioned my purchase of my car (a Honda Accord). I explained that a big reason I bought my car because of the interior quality. The person questioning said "it is all perception."
If we can't "perceive" quality, what can we "do" to it to determine it exists in the produce we buy?
To a point, perception IS reality.
It's possible that American and foreign cars start out with similar "perceptions" but from then on, it might diverge into satisfaction and for some, disappointment.
So someone might legitimately say "Well, this Chevrolet has an interior just as nice as that Accord" and that perception would be correct...then later, it may be that the reality is that the nice interior means nothing if the car doesn't run right....so the "total" reality is a lot different than the "initial perception".
This is one reason why I like longterm ownership reports rather than those "initial quality" surveys.
People's perceptions are often incorrect.
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
*steps off soapbox and closes subject.
It basically states that the Domestics have come a long way, and now have to re-earn the trust of the people they let down in previous years. Their image is bruised, like Hyundai's was.