Air Conditioning

snowmobillsnowmobill Member Posts: 1
edited March 2014 in Mercury
what type refridgeration does a 93 cougar use?
is it the older type or the new 22


  • ChingCChingC Member Posts: 11
    Any suggestion for retrofitting R12 to R134a? pro's and con's?
  • gusgus Member Posts: 254
    Cost may be prohibitive, depending upon your budget, and it seems to me that R134 just doesn't get as cold (may be personal prejudice/preference).
  • guitarzanguitarzan OhioMember Posts: 868
    Wow, Bill, if you are still here: Ask the dealer if you haven't yet. The switch to the new freon happened just around the time that car was produced. My guess is that model has the older freon, but I'm not sure where the cutoff was.
  • borrservborrserv Member Posts: 2
    To find out what type of refrigerant is being used in any vehicle look for the information sticker usually found by the compressor or radiator. This will give you the type and amount needed. You need to be EPA certified to purchace R-12. R-134A is unregulated so anyone can buy it.Also if you can't find the sticker the dealer should be able to tell you. Retrofitting from R-12 to R-134A is not for the novice. You will need specialized tools; Electronic or Ultraviolet leak detectors, Vacume pump, Gauge manifold, Weight scale, Oil refractometer, Recovery machine, to name a few. Multiple compressor oil changes refrigerant recovery and recharges will be needed to reduce the old mineral oil to acceptable levels, good luck.
  • borrservborrserv Member Posts: 2
    Gus is right. R-12 has a boiling point of -21.6 degrees F, where R-134A boils at -15.1 degrees F. resulting in colder evaporator temperatures.
  • RichinKsRichinKs Member Posts: 412
    I have an 89 camero. The airconditioning seems to be working fine, but I was looking for the sight glass to see whether or not there are bubbles an indication whether or not it may need a little charge. I cannot find it. Has GM done away with the sight glass on some of the last R12 air conditioners? Any body got a clue? .... Rich
  • biga2biga2 Member Posts: 1
    retrofit from freon R12 to 134A should not be performed unless, you are changing out a major component such as a compressor, evaporator, or condensor, receiver/drier, and even then it is very touchy, and can create many problems.

    if you have an R12 system and lost freon, get in touch with a quality automotive ac shop, they will thoroughly test for leaks and repair accordingly, and refill with R12

    dont let anyone tell you R12 is no longer around
    it is still available through ac shops, but is no longer being produced. R12 is expensive but if your ac system is in good shape, no crap in the system then just have the leak fixed and refilled.

    to learn more about ac system conversion go to this guy has his own ac service shop for 25 yrs and hs a lot of info and guidance on his web site.

    i learned the hard way, had my 92 nissan stanza converted to 134a for $150 'cause i had a r12 leak, local guy said it was a straight conversion no problem, i wound up with a clog in the thermo expansion valve/evaporator, which had to be changed out, because i could not service the valve and it is an integral parts of the evaporator. the dealer service tech said that in a conversion to 134a the condensor is too small for 134a and that now i must baby the ac system, because the condensor can not cool the 134a quick enough.
  • georgedegeorgede Member Posts: 40
    I have a new 99 Isuzu SUV and always park under
    a large tree most of the day (100 degrees cooler as I go home). My question is, quite a few times have found lots of small leafs around the windshield area. Will this be a problem clogging
    the A/C over a period of time???
  • gusgus Member Posts: 254
    It's not going to clog the a/c per se, but your vent system will become clogged with leaves. It's not unusual to pull the kick panels on some cars and find a bunch of leaves and crap around the heater box. Sometimes you'll hear leaves in the heater fan, thwacking around, or forcing themselves through the vents. A few small leaves probably won't be a problem, but people who live where pine needles and stuff accumulate heavily on their cars may have a problem.

    Another, different problem you want to take care to avoid is having your car's drainage system clog up. This is the system that allows water to go off the windshield into the "vents" at the base of the windshield, through the car, and down to the street below, ususally via a hole at the base of the car's frame. Leaves that get stuck in this drainage system can cause water to get trapped in the frame of your car, where it'll swish around and sometimes find its way into the car.
  • georgedegeorgede Member Posts: 40
    Thanks Gus, I may put a small cover over that area
    like that I'll still stay cool. It makes a big
    difference even with tinted windows.
  • carlookcarlook Member Posts: 1
    I have a 95 Celica-150,000 miles. The AC went out and I went to the trusty independent mechanic. He said the compressor was bad-$850 to replace it. About a $1000 later, he says "these imports" need everything replaced (condenser,evaporator, expansion valve) in order to keep the AC from "clogging up". The extra parts are $775. Now, is this normal in AC repair and will the AC work only intermittently without the extra parts or am I headed for long time trouble if I don't replace the other parts. The AC now takes time to begin cooling , but does work.
  • xfilesxfiles Member Posts: 132
    It is unusual for everything in the air contitioning system to go bad, usually there is only one weak point. As far as spending $850 for the compressor, try the next time picking one up at the auto recyclers (about $75, including a 6 mth warranty). This mechanic that wants you to replace everything is obviously a weasel trying to take you for some more money. Maybe you should have kidded him and said..."maybe everything else on the car needs replacing too".

    After the compressor is repaired the Toyota manual specifies a procedure that must be followed to ensure the entire system is dry, how much a charge it needs, etc. One mechanic I saw was doing it the same way with every vehicle, and adding the same charge to them all, obviously not right. When it comes to air, stick with Toyota. I bet that repairman did not do things correctly.
  • spudmanspudman Member Posts: 32
    I have an 88 Beretta with 49,000 miles on it. The a/c has always worked great till now. Cold air still comes out of the vents but the force of the air coming out has decreased somewhat. When the fan is turned up to the highest setting, the sound of the air stream gets louder but the air stream coming out doesn't increase accordingly and the car is not cooled very well. Any ideas
  • blugillblugill Member Posts: 36
    Clean out the vents. leaves and the like can get in there, and restrict airflow.

    Those metal slots right in front of the windshild are where the air comes in, clean them out, and you should be fine.
  • bobbyh2bobbyh2 Member Posts: 2
    is there a difference between the amount of outside air used by Japanese cars during the recirc setting (I've been told none) and US cars on their Max Air setting (I've been told 10-20%)?
  • bobbyh2bobbyh2 Member Posts: 2
    is there a difference between the amount of outside air used by Japanese cars during the recirc setting (I've been told none) and US cars on their Max Air setting (I've been told 10-20%)?
  • spudmanspudman Member Posts: 32
    Thanks for your advice. I did clean out the vents by the windshield with only negligible improvement. A car repair shop has my car at this moment. As it turns out the air flow was being restricted. Apparently a critter or critters have been nesting in my car and have clogged the air flow in numerous places. They (the car shop)have taken out a cubic foot or more of material so far and are still working on it. This is the second time I've have problems with animal(s) living in this Beretta. Several years ago I had to have all the spark plug wires replaced because they had been gnawed so badly. For a while I was even keeping moth balls under the hood and setting traps. It's times like this that make me wish I had a garage.
  • rschwarz2rschwarz2 Member Posts: 1
    I just acquired the car, seems in great shape...however, when the a/c is on, there's a regular hiss every few seconds that lasts a few seconds coming from under the front passenger dash.

    any ideas: vacuum tube leak, evaporator, leaves??

    about the have it checked out; the a/c cools fine and comes out in every vent combination
  • lynnflynnf Member Posts: 1
    My 94 Galant's A/c is out, I was wondering if it would be a better, cheaper idea to install a new R-134 my self or to get the current R-12 replaced by a technician?
  • dwanndwann Member Posts: 5
    About early srping, I noticed the AC wasn't cooling properly, so my wife took it to the dealership. The repairman said, and I am not making this up, "...because it is a darker colred car, the AC won't cool the car down as well as with a lighter colored vehicle." Needless to say, I won't take the car to this dealership again!! Anyway, I got some R-134a and recharged the system with 1 can. Now the car keeps cool for about an hour, but after that, nothing but warm air comes from the vents. Did I not put enough refrigerant in? Is my compressor shot? I now commute in this car over an hour each way and with the weather being as hot as it has been, I am suffering big time!
  • chevy05chevy05 Member Posts: 5
    Do auto parts stores sell R-134a over the shelf to everyone. I remember when R-12 was available everywhere. To anyone, you could even buy little refil kits that would pierce the can and service your system.
  • dwanndwann Member Posts: 5

    Yes, anyone can buy it over the shelf. That's what I ended up doing with my Camry. I trust no Toyota mechanic yet except myself, and I'm a computer geek.
  • automobile2automobile2 Member Posts: 1

  • rondorirondori Member Posts: 8
    Does anyone have suggestions as to how to get rid of and/or avoid mildew odor from an auto A/C system?


  • tomeynotonetomeynotone Member Posts: 1
    turn off your ac about two or three minutes before you reach a destination. Then run your heat up for a minute to dry the duct work out
  • lawmarklawmark Member Posts: 1
    To Automobile 2. I have just had my evaporator, condenser and o rings replaced on my 1996 Eagle Vision TSI. The tech claimed that R134a has a tendency of breaking down these parts in all cars. My evaporator was replaced in 1998 within an extended warranty to 70,000 miles (US). I was also given a credit for this most recent evaporator repair. Has anyone had this same experience.
  • kents1kents1 Member Posts: 3
    The clutch of air condition compressor on my Villager (95) made loud metal click sound. It looks to me that the clutch was partially engaged sometimes. Any suggestion?
  • gusgus Member Posts: 254
    Some clutches will make a click sound when they engage. A/C compressors do not stay engaged all of the time. They go on and off at fairly regular intervals, while the A/C is on.
  • kents1kents1 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks, GUS.
    I checked A/C compressor clutch. It works fine when it was turned on and off. That means the clutch works. When the A/C is on and the temperature reaches the setting point, the clutch should be off. However, the clutch on my van keeps on and off at a rate of 2 ~ 3 times per second. It looks to me that the controller is confused near the setting point (temperature). Is it a sensor or computer (logical circuit) problem?
  • triftrif Member Posts: 4
    What is the usual time for an A/C system to make it before needing a recharge?
  • gusgus Member Posts: 254
    #31> Varies from car to car. I have a '93 Corolla that has never had a recharge, and the A/C is still as cold as it was when the car rolled out of the factory (knock on wood). When you notice that the air isn't quite as cold as it used to be, or if it isn't cooling you off on a hot day, then you may want to get it checked out. The A/C system is supposed to be a sealed system, so if you need a recharge, you may have a leak--either a slow one or a fast one. It's likely that you'll need more than just a recharge if you find your A/C performing at an unsatisfactory level.

    #30> There's a sensor that detects how much refrigerant you've got in your system. Usually the sensor is hooked up to the receiver-drier (at least it is on the models I work on). It's possible that the sensor is bad, or that you're right on border of having not enough refrigerant so that maybe the sensor is sensing enough and then too little. It seems more likely that you've got a bad sensor or something is wrong with the wiring or mechanism that controls the compressor switching on/off.

    Good luck
    Conference Host
  • kents1kents1 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks, Gus.
    It looks to me a temperature sensor problem since it works when A/C was initially turned on. After a while (when the temperature reaches the setting point), the clutch started on and off oscillation at high frequency. So, where is the temperature sensor? Is it monitoring the coolant in the heater core?
  • gilbucogilbuco Member Posts: 1
    Any issues on how to convert 89 corolla r12 system to r13?
  • humidhumid Member Posts: 5
    I live on the gulf coast and we push car a/c to the limit. A friend of mine found his BMW air to be a little weak during the height of summer. Anybody have recent experience with BMW A/C in a hot weather state?
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    I got about a twelve pack or so. Write if interested.

    Sold all my vehicles that use it.

    [email protected]
  • lucky20lucky20 Member Posts: 35
    The conventional wisdom is, do not change R12 system to R134A unless cost of R12 repairs exceed cost of R134A retrofit.

    Biggest problem I have found w/retrofit is size of condenser core is to small & not enough air flow over condenser in some autos.

    Neighbor bought a do-it your self kit at wal-mart, I recommended not to try it. He insisted, after recovering the R12, he installed per/instructions, has held for 2 years. Go figure!
  • lucky20lucky20 Member Posts: 35
    Poor A/C performance; do not assume low refrigerant level. Many things can cause low performance. Such as, Poor air flow across condenser, in-operative expansion valve, improper air flow across evaporator core, improper operation of air doors & poor compressor performance.

    I have found condensers plugged with bugs, evaporators pluged with leaves, plastic shopping bag & I even found a well worn out coke can sitting on the top of the heater blower squirrel cage. The list goes on!

    You can check the easy things your self, beyond that, call the professional.
  • lucky20lucky20 Member Posts: 35
    I am not interested in getting your left over R12. Just thought I would let you know what its worth. Last batch of R12 I purchased, I paid $14.00 per/LB. In 30 lb container.

    I am sure someone will want it.
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    Lets see $15 x 10 cans.....

    Ooooh. Beer money for a long time!

    Feel free to write

    [email protected]
  • bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335
    Of course you know that Edmunds Town Hall is not a Marketplace, it's in your
    User Agreement

    This "auction of sorts" does have some entertainment value, so I am leaving it up for now.

    Please remember your User Agreement in the future.

    Your Host, Bruce
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    So sorry, looked on Ebay, looks like the way to auction.

    Thanks for the reminder, Bruce. ;o)
  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    The AC clutch bearing on my 95 Nissan Sentra is getting quite loud (all the time, AC on and off). How long should it last and is the clutch a replaceable item, or do I have to replace the whole compressor?

    I have the car up for sale and would replace the clutch if I can. Otherwise I guess I will have to go as-is. Just need advise as what to do.

  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    I feel a jerk within my cabin whenever the cooling fan comes on and my a/c is also on.
    if a/c is not on, no jerk.

    if a/c is on and no cooling fan startups(like early morning) - no jerks when the a/c comes on and off.

    can anyone tell me what the problem is?
  • FCWFCW Member Posts: 1
    My 99 GS4 is only a week old and I have a problem already. It was
    kind of warm today, 65F, so I turned the AC on. As it turned out,
    there was no refrigerant in the car! So I took it to the dealer who
    added CFC-free whatever and looked 25 minutes for a leak with
    no success. They said they tried some flourescent dye or something.
    Can I try to see this gas dye myself?? With a black light??
    So now I have AC, but I am still worried--once an AC system leaks,
    it NEVER stops!

    Does the car ship from Japan with refrigerant or is that a dealer
    add-in at the port?

    Driving home, I hear fluid swishing sounds from behind the dash when the
    AC is on. I have no example of how loud the GS HVAC system is, but
    this noise was pretty loud--much louder than my old ES300. Is this an
    indication of low refrigerant again? Or is this swishing noise normal for the GS?

    Also, under the hood, by the radiator I see a round window into the refrigerant
    piping. Back in the old days (of my 78 Chrysler LeBaron) if you looked into this
    window after the AC has been running in steady state, you are not supposed to
    see bubbles if the refrigerant level was Full. Well I saw TONS of foamy bubbles and
    sometimes larger bubbles go by with the AC on. Anyone with a GS Repair Manual
    that can tell me what is "normal" for this car?

    Well I guess I'll drive it and if there is a leak, eventually it will become noticeable.
    What if the leak is in the evaporator and is refrigerant is getting into the car????!!!
    What does the new CFC-free stuff smell like? What would my symptoms be if this
    were happening?

    Thank you all very much,
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    A/C compressor takes 10 to 15 HP. Also, when the compressor clutch locks on, the drive system has to absorb the force it takes to spin the compressor up to speed (jerks).

    Big old diesel's that have lots of rotational inertia will hardly "jerk" at all. Little engines will "jerk" with more significance.
  • woody60woody60 Member Posts: 1
    Recently moved to Atlanta, and had the AC system (compressor, condensor, piping, etc) replaced - hadn't been working for a couple of years, but didn't need it in CT. Anyway, after the service, it would cool fine as long as I was traveling at highway speeds, but it couldn't keep up with the heat in local or stop and go traffic. Service shop sez it's working fine (by the # of degrees it's cooling from ambient), but it just ain't so. Ideas? My current thought is to take it to a specialist in auto AC, but I don't want to be taken for a ride again. (Last service cost me $1200!!)
  • edt4444edt4444 Member Posts: 2
    Bought a used one without air. Anybody know of a inexpensive way to add unit now. Love the car but might have to live with tinted windows and open sunroof.
  • 95sunfire95sunfire Member Posts: 1
    the air and heat in my sunfire (1995) both come out on the floor and very little through the top , no matter how the settings are moved.
  • brian713626brian713626 Member Posts: 3
    I only know a few basics but here goes. In general it is true that there is a fairly low pull down number in degrees. I think its about 20 degrees.One of my burbs acted like your veh.-it worked fine at 45 to 65 mph but not much at idle. I found a low charge condition with a gauge set. A very slow leak at a connection was the problem On my chev. units I could open the hood and observe that the electric clutch on the compressor was not being energized at idle speeds. Naturally I don`t know if this is your problem.Are you sure that your shop put a gauge set on your A.C. to verify freon charge level.I don`t suggest you play with a gauge set unless you have been trained. High pressure and eye damage are concerns. My 2 cents.
  • woodytxwoodytx Member Posts: 19
    91 Acura Integra LS Coupe, Compressor and Condensor leaking. My repair shop (a good one) wants $1,450 to replace both and recharge (R12). Does anyone have experience with this, and if so, could you tell me if that price is out of hand? Or if that's just about right. My last AC experience was in a 71 Olds, and was a bit cheaper....
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