Air Conditioning

bnormann

#0 of 2: Any info? (grobeljm) Thu 22 Jun '00 (06:09 AM)

My family has a 95 JGC and a 97 Wrangler, both
have had serious A/C problems. Anyone know if
Daimler Chrysler has given any info on this, or is
it just bad luck for us?



#1 of 2: Info (illini4) Wed 28 Jun '00 (12:38 PM)

I was told some time ago (by a friend who was a
Jeep-Eagle service manager at the time) that the
A/C evaporator vendor for Chrysler products failed
to completely wash an acid bath out of the
evaporators during the manufacturing process.

This left acid within the core, that eventually will eat its way through the bottom of the evaporator, and of course cause it to leak. My 94 Vision TSI was a victim of this condition. Chrysler will replace the defective evaporators at no cost up to 70,000 miles (and probably beyond if you pressure them).

bnormann

#0 of 0: (sirboots) Wed 28 Jun '00 (03:22 PM)

I have a '93 Jeep Grand Cherokee. In general it's
been a very good vehicle, but I'm currently having
a problem even the dealership can't seem to figure
out.

I'm getting a noise (sounds similar to what you
hear when the power steering pump is low on
fluid... no, it's not). The air conditioning
compressor MUST be engaged (cycle on) and the RPMs
are around 1,100. Higher or lower, and the pitch
and volume of the sound are lower. I can even
feel
a vibration in the floor pan and tailpipe.

The dealer changed out the air conditioning
compressor and an idler pulley. That didn't fix
the problem, and they've thrown up their hands.

Any help is much appreciated.

Best wishes... William Stewart (San Diego)

ataie

on my 91 300SE, I've noticed the A/C will blow from the defrost vent while accelerating. It blows from the front vents once the acceleration is over and engine has leveled off. Is this normal?

bobs5

I never had a mercedes, but this condition does not sound normal to me.

ataie

I asked one of office buddies and he said that there is a switch that cuts the A/C off during acceleration to give the car more power. but that doesn't explain why it also kicks into the defrost mode on any increase on RPM? dealer would probably charge $60 to tell me why....

edwardh1

Probably related to loss of vacum to vacum operated "motors" in the vent system.
May have beenlike that when new.

90inmo

I have a 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan. The compressor shuts off while I am driving and then usually comes back on. Sometimes I have to turn their off and on several times for it to come back on. The air is still blowing the entire time, but, it is blowing warm air. Dodge has never been able to find a problem. I had the problem when I first purchased the van 4 years ago and they told me it was freezing up when I used the recycled air too long. As long as I used the fresh air cycle it seem to take care of the problem until the warranty ran out and now it is a constant problem. The problem is worse on 95 degree days. I have also had another mechanic look at this and he found nothing wrong with the air. Any ideas?

ataie

... and they say why people buy foreign cars. I have heard the same stories on Ford too. everything is ok and as soon as the warranty runs out, so does the A/C and transmission, etc.

tamatha

Thanks, bobs5, for responding.................we have checked out all that you asked and everything is fine. According to a few former Corvette
owners, it seems that this was a common problem in the 1976 model that is why we were wondering if maybe we could replace the fan motor with something that had more RPM's...............do any of you know if this has ever been done and what would you suggest?
Thanks again...........

jamesk9

I have a 1993 Dodge Intrepid with 135,000 miles on the odometer. I say that as I don't want to spend a lot of money on the car, and with the exception of the air conditioning have been extremely happy with the car. The air conditioning has not worked for some time (1997). When I took it to a Chrysler dealership in 1998, they performed a leak test and found no leaks (I visually inspecting the lines noted they have no rust and the hoses look good). They diagnosed a problem with the evaporator, however, all they performed was a leak test. My question is, what tests are there to diagnose a failed evaporator that can be done by a layman. When I recently refocused on the topic, I noticed the clutch on the compressor does not cycle when the air is turned on , the high/low lines are warm (same temperature), and the cars self diagnostic system (accessed through the ATC panel) does not note any error codes. I would appreciate any assistance someone could offer on either diagnosing and pinpointing a problem or in a potential quick fix that is known with the 1993 intrepids (i.e. TSB).

lucky20

Your system should be an R-12 system unless it has been converted to R-134A. First step, must have gas in a/c system in order to work. 2nd step, if gas is present, must have power to compressor clutch to engage compressor. 3rd step, if power is present with no engagement, probable defective clutch coil. 4th step, if no power is present at clutch, check clutch cycling switch. 5th step, if there is power at switch, possible defective switch, or not enough gas presure. 6th step, if no power at cycling switch, check power sorce (fuse or breaker). If there is little or no gas in the system, must find leak. I rearly use refrigerant gas to find leaks, most often nitrogen, w/electronic halide sniffer or soap. Using shop air presure to find leaks can contaminate the system & in the presence of R-134A gas, can cause an explosion. Most any proficient shop should be able to do all of this in less then an hour. Leaks are not always easy to find. ASK QUESTIONS! Good luck

jamesk9

I appreciate the order of events to follow. I looked and the system is R134a. The system has in the range of 30 PSI on both the high and low side. If there was a leak, would not all of the refrigerant have leaked out (it has not worked since I bought the car in 1997, and no fluid has been put in) by now. If there is no leak, I understand that the fluid fairy would have had to have taken it out, as the air conditioning system is sealed in all respects? I an thinking your last comment on going to a proficient shop, rather than a DC dealer may be the best approach.

elrx

a couple weeks ago, we brought my '99 rx300 (which i absolutely love) to the dealer because the a/c was not working. they checked it out, and told us there was a hole in the condenser. then they said that this was not covered by the warranty. we were pretty surprised, but the dealer guy said that a rock probably bounced up and hit it, and now we have to pay $1500 to fix it.

is this dealer just trying to pull one on us? has anyone else had this problem? and should this be covered by warranty?

thanks.

e

fboy

I was told that I need to check to make sure the A/C is switched "OFF" before I start the engine. Otherwise, I risk to over stress the engine and shorten the engine life.
Is there any truth in this statement?
Also, beside my A/C, my radio is switched "ON" all the time. Am I doing any harm to my vehicle?
I am living in Austin Texas with a temperature of 105 F in these few days.
Thank you.

ataie

not unless you're driving a 49 Ford or something. I think now days with all the new technology this statement would not be quite accurate. Of course that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

hello22

I was in a couple of months ago getting an H20 pump replaced on my 95 Cad SLS. The dealer told me the AC bearings also need replacing, as they are whining.

Could somebody explain to me why the noise is present whether the AC clutch is engaged or not? I'm just wondering if the dealer could be wrong.

bnormann

Even though the clutch is not engaged, there is still a portion of the A/C unit spinning and one (or two) bearings allowing those parts to spin freely. The v belt (or serpentine belt) is always spinning and the clutch for the A/C unit is located right on the front of the A/C compressor, hence some portion of that compressor is always spinning whether the clutch is engaged or not.

Bruce

(Did I just say the same thing twice...?)

hello22

OK Bruce, glad you set me straight. I was wondering if it were something like that.

Yesterday I probed around the top part of the engine (PS, etc...) with a screwdriver, listening on the end and couldn't find it. This weekend I'll try listening closely to the AC compressor, yep it's attached to the bottom of the engine.

ataie

make sure you're not wearing a tie when you're doing this..... be careful
Shon

hello22

and heard it is coming from the AC compressor. Ataie, I was careful not to get clothing caught in the belt. I can see how that would be dangerous!

Anybody know how to remove that clutch? Most that I've seen have a hex nut in the middle.

This doesn't. The plate is pressed on. In the middle is a 1" hollow shaft, with threads on the INSIDE! In the middle is a round, ring on a smaller shaft (about 1/4 inch). On one side of this ring is a square, retainer-like piece of metal. Doesn't appear to be part of the ring.

ldelka

I'm experiencing I think a controlling problem with my a/c. When selected, it works about 1/3 of the time. the display indicates its working normal and the fan works. I've been through the self diagnostics several times and no fault codes are displayed, then it magically starts working, but only temporarily. When it works it cools well. Does anybody have experience with this particular system. Its R-12 with dual zone and what appears to be alot of electronic controls. Any advice on this system would be greatly appreciated.

southpark

Here's a dandy for you mechanically inclined folks-this one has got all my mechanic friends up in arms...

Ok, here it is: I have a 1995 Ford Escort LX (1.9L I believe). Everything was working fine until I paid it off 2 weeks ago (go figure!) and now I'm having a problem...not sure if it's A/C related or something else. I figured I would check here since many of you A/C specialists might have seen this before...

When driving the car the last few weeks, periodically the temperature gauge would "go hot" when the car would slow down for a stoplight, or at an intersection ...at first, it would just get close to redline, then go back down as I drove. I noticed that the air would also blow hot during these times, then as I continued on, the air would go cold again and everything would be back to normal (until the next time I slowed down).

I had a mechanic friend of mine check it out and he determined that the cooling fan wasn't coming on as it was supposed to. We traced the problem down to a relay under the hood in the fuse box that had a melted terminal. He said that this relay received a signal to open or close depending on engine temp and therefore kick the fan on and off.

We replaced the relay and everything seemed to work fine. He ran the car for a solid 45 minutes with the air on cold and the gauge never redlined and all seemed well. The fan was coming on, and everything appeared to work properly. It was at this point that he contacted me to let me know he fixed the problem and I could come get my car.

That next day, just for good measure, he went out and started the car again, and once again, it started to redline again. The fan was not coming on, and air would not blow cold at all. He told me that the car would run fine without the air, but cutting the A/C on made the temp gauge redline.

There are a couple of factors also involved here: 1) even when the car's temp gauge was indicating that it was overheating, he checked the radiator and the coolant was not even bubbling..no overheating! 2) he contacted a friend of his at a local Ford dealership here in Memphis and he was told by this fellow that Ford Escorts are famous for having temperature gauge problems... this tells me that it might be the gauge, not the A/C system, causing the problem.

I'm not a car expert by any means, but it seems logical to me that if the temperature gauge is not working correctly, it is sending an incorrect signal to the car's computer, therefore not sending the correct information to the relay, which in turn is not cutting the fan on and cooling the engine properly (ie: no cold air).

Another mechanic friend of mine mentioned that it might also be the "heating/cooling temperature sensor" on the radiator itself also not working properly (not reading the radiator temperature correctly, therefore sending the wrong temp to all the gauges and gizmos, and having the same problem occur).

Any thoughts on this from anyone out there would be TREMENDOUSLY appreciated!!! It's nice having friends that are mechanics, but being fairly young, they're not always the *most* knowledgable sources of information. I'll take age and experience any day over "good buddy mechanics".

Please respond/reply to my email address: southparkaddict@hotmail.com

...and thanks again in advance!!! I owe ya' a 12 pack!

hondaman20

I have an 88 accord LX w/ 215K miles and the ac stopped blowing cold this summer--i just figured I needed a recharge--i have some R12 I can put in but how should I go about this--check for leaks--what equipment/precautions should I be aware of??
What can I expect if I take this to a mechanic??

bobs5

southpark - By the description you gave I would agree with your mechanic friend that it is a coolant temperature sensor.

My car seems to run too cool, the temp gauge hardly moves at all unless the car idles for a while, i believe it is a bad coolant temp sensor.

hondaman20 - I believe in leaving a/c work for a mechanic. They have the equipment to check for leaks. Recharging the system requires evacuating the a/c system then adding the freon. I am not sure but think a mechanic needs special training and license to work on a/c systems.

I once had an 1983 ford ltd stationwagon which blew warm a/c. Had the mechanic recharge the system and WOW what a difference. After about 5 minutes I would be reaching for a winter coat because it was so cold. The mechanic charged me about $70 for this work, back in 1989.

rberard

I brought my '92 Suburban into the shop because it was not cooling well. They determined that the compressor was not working properly and changed it (at a cost of about $800). The following week as I was driving around, still sweating, I brought it back and had them feel the air that was coming out of the vent and they agreed that it should be cooling better. I don't know how they reached the coils, but they could see that they were full of dirt and grime from years of sucking in air from the interior passenger side floor. They cleaned it all off and voila! My air conditioner is working fine.
I bet I didn't even really need a new compressor.

rberard

Years ago, we had a Mercedes, I think it was an '83 or '84 300D. The air conditioner would only come on some of the time, and then it would switch to heat! The mechanic found an ink pen that had been dropped in one of the vents. It was on the sensor, causing it to switch back and forth! It cost a fortune to fix!

koggie

I have a 1993 Ford Econoline Van which I primarily use for towing my horse trailer on weekends. It has 50,000 miles on it. In the summer of 1997 my A/C gave out and in January 1998 I had the compressor replaced at the local Ford dealer. I didn't use the A/C until Summer 1998 and then only on occasional weekends. Everything was ok until the next summer (1999) when the A/C started blowing hot air. Since then until now the van has been in the shop 7 times to fix the problem. Today they told me that the compressor they installed was bad and had to be replaced. Since I didn't bring it in within a year of the original replacement, I'll have to replace this at my own cost. I am so furious about this. I guess I never should have had A/C work done in January as by the time I started to use it 6 months had already passed. It probably hasn't been used over 2 dozen times since its been installed. Do I have any recourse here or am I stuck installing another unit. I've bought 5 vehicles from this dealer and you can be sure I will never buy another one there.

wesl

Koggie:
Make sure that the compressor is the problem. My 95 Contour had a similar problem, but it turned out to be the clutch assembly that was defective. The Ford dealer wanted to replace the entire system, so I went to an independent and so far the A/C system is ice cold. Good luck, this summer is way too hot to not have A/C. Later, Wes.

jjackson43

6 months ago I had a new motor put in my Chevy full sized Van, so obviously w/100K on the vehicle I replaced most all external components, including the ac compresson/dryer (the old ac was working ok, but I felt this was the time to convert to 134.

They were told to "flush" the system, oil the compressor to specs, and recharge. It has never really worked correctly since. The symptom is that sometimes it cools well/blows cold (I'm in Florida), and the next time it will only be cool, (55-60 degrees at the vent). I also put on an electric fan in addition to the factory mechanical fan.

I had it checked out yesterday and the guages read 40 Lbs on the low side and around 300 on the high side, which I was told indicates the freon level is ok, but the high side is higher than it should be. Had the freon pulled out, system vacumed, and new orfic tub (the old one had filings small accumulation of filings). Recharged and I have the same problem. This unit has rear air also.

The new compressor was a "new" AC Delco and dryer. Any thoughts on what might be causing such a problem..? I have about 4 months left on the compressor warranty, by I don't know if that is the problem. What kind of readings do you normally get w/a bad compressor..?

Thanks, John

ataie

the 134a runs higher PSI than R-12. that's what I was told. It seems I hear more and more stories about not converting from R-12. if it's working ok, stay with R-12. 134a is kind of like sugar free stuff, close but not the same.

rebelcool

I've got the strangest problem with my 98 pontiac
sunfire 2.4L.. When at idle speed, disengaging my
airconditioner causes the RPMs to drop about 400,
thus causing my engine to stall. Note that when
engaging the a/c, nothing abnormal happens. The
engine idles at about 750~800 rpms, so a drop to
under 500 is quite enough to cause a nasty shudder
and a stall. What could be the cause of this?
Clutch? Compressor?
I know its the a/c and not the fan beacuse this only happens in cases where the a/c has been running..

rebelcool

Okay, I took the car to the dealer to have the a/c checked out.. they had never seen anything like an engine dying on shutting off the a/c. Sure enough though, they looked at it, and when i first called to check on it they said they had no idea what it was and wanted to keep it thru the weekend. Later on I called again to see if there was more news and i was told they cleaned the throttle body out, and that seemed to help. Now my question is how does cleaning the throttle body pertain to the engine dying on disengaging and a/c?? Anyone know anything about this?

7937

rebelcool, if I might hazard a guess as to why your revs drop when you shut off the aircon, I would say this - the engine control module (computer) controls engine idle speed. When you engage the a/c a signal is sent to the computer to keep the idle speed constant with the added load of the a/c compressor. When you switch the a/c off and the load lightens, the computer compensates once again and keeps the engine idle speed constant. Somewhere along the line - a bad relay contact maybe - the signal to the engine control module from the a/c circuitry is being lost.

teo

Their opinion on the reliability of the A/C Delco-Harrison V-5 Compressors?

gjack

I have a dodge durango. I bought it a couple of weeks ago. The air conditioning does not seem to cool like my old car(dodge intrepid). I drove from work to home, about 15 miles. By the time I got home, the a/c was just cooling me. I can't say that it was cold. It was 107 degrees out side at about 2:00 in the afternoon. I thought maybe that is was just that 107 degrees and a black durango. Maybe it's not going to get cold. How far or long before I can expect for the a/c to get cold. I drove it to work that same morning at 6:30 am and it never really got cold (not like the intrepid). Can anyone help?

pat455

Welcome to Town Hall.

Did you also happen to find the Durango topics in our SUV conference? You should be able to find lots of Durango owners hanging out over there.

You can use the Topic Search feature on the left side of this page for Durango and then pick a topic under SUVs with a recent date.

Good luck.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

lucky20

There are a number of causes for poor a/c performance. You mentioned black color, also high out side temp.. Other causes may be, low refrigerant charge, tired a/c compressor, malfunctioning air doors or vacuum motors, just to mention a few. The a/c should start blowing cold air almost immediately after turning it on. A good a/c tech. should be able to find the problem(s) in about 30 min. or less. Good luck!

gharitos

Can any tell me if a retrofit of rebuilt
compressor/clutch (Denso C-171 unit) that has been
retrofitted for R-134 freon should make a tapping
sound almost like bad lifters when the clutch is
engaged? Replaced the dryer and also low pressure
hose. Checked pressures for freon level, all
within green area and filled compressor with PAG
oil designed for R-134 freon. Could it be that the
C-171 compressor was designed for R-12 and since
R-134 requires higher pressures that this makes the
compressor work harder. If this is the case, will
the compressor fail early? Thanks for any assist

sau1

A few months my 2000 Acura TL developed an intermittent gurgling noise from the AC unit. I took it to the dealer and it diagnosed that there is moisture in the unit that caused it. They flushed out everything and recharge it. But the problem did not go away so I brought it back a second time. This time they say the moisture was caused by a defective "expansion valve" and replaced it, cleaned out the moisture again and recharge the AC. The problem has gotten much better but the gurgling sound can still be heard from time to time. I am ready to bring it back a third time. Any suggestions?

teo

Have them replace the A/C Compressor. It could be a sign of early compressor self-destruction. Since your car has a 4/48,000 warranty, you should insist on a brand new unit at no cost. My 2000 Chevy Impala LS developed an A/C growling noise/vibration at engine idle and although it was cooling really well, the dealer's tech determined that the compressor was already self destructing (Defective unit)and to avoid taking chances GM would give me a new compressor under warranty. Got the new Compressor installed (System recharged, the works) and Presto! problem gone.

I don't know who makes the A/C compressors on new Honda/Acura products (May be Denso?) but my old 1997 Acura 2.5TL had the Denso unit which never gave me problems. My Impala has the V-5 Delphi/Harrison compressor.

Good luck.

j_coleman

It's been HOT in Dallas lately. My wife has a '96 Saturn SL (50K miles), and the A/C has never been serviced. It still works good, but it's not as cold as when the car was new. Here are my questions:

1. Do all A/C systems lose their cooling ability over time, or does reduced cooling always indicate a leak?
2. Is it R-12 or 134a? How can I find out?
3. Firestone offers an a/c performance check where they inspect the system and do leak and performance tests. Is this a BS service or is it something that should be done periodically? Would it be better to take it to a shop that specializes in a/c systems?

Thanks for the help!

smore

It has been my experience that all a/c systems loose freon over time. To me it seems like planned obsolescene because many years ago I had a '68 Plymouth with factory a/c that worked FOREVER on all original parts... and it was still ice cold. But ever since that car has been gone, all our newer cars (and we have many) always seem to have a/c problems after a few years. And it's not cheap to fix! Form your own opinion of Firestone, but i would STRONGLY recommend you go to an a/c specialist. I think the "performance check" is a $80 waste and a way to sell you lots of expensive repairs.. I can feel the air coming out of the vents and tell you if it's right or not. Good luck.

lucky20

Good advice! Not all a/c systems loose there refrigerant, but many do over time. Check for references when chosing an a/c specialist. I never recommend paying for a performance check. If it blows cold, it works & if not, your guess. If your a/c is not working, to your satisfaction, find a tech. who will explain, to your satisfaction, how your system works & the possible causes of the symptoms. Get a second opinion.

jadtucker

I have a terrible odor coming from my AC. Come to find out it is mold. I have a 99 Intrepid. I have had my car one year. In that time I took it to the dealership they were supposed to fix it, they forgot. I took it back to find out that the repair was never performed. They finally ran that cleaner through the system. Lasted 1 1/2 weeks. Smell is now back.
My daughter was 4 months old when we bought the car. She had never been sick. I emphasize never. Starting two days after purchasing the car she has had constant colds. We have spent about $300 on allergy medicines. Big suprise...the type of allergies that she has...major cause is mold. I am going to get Chrysler to buy back the car.
I would love to hear from anyone else that has had a similar problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

pat455

If you read through the posts in this topic, and also in this link: smelly vent (Topic #619), you'll find some previous discussion on this problem.

Good luck.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

chikoo

At idle speeds on stop lights, whenever my a/c compressor engages, I feel a jerk (same like putting a car into gear). Any ideas what can be the problem?

dq1

I have a 98 Jeep GC that I have had now for 35 months. A couple of days ago, the A/C stopped blowing cold suddenly. A look under the hood revealed that the condenser had corroded so badly that pieces of the metal tubing were laying in a flat area beneath it. The corrosion completely surrounds both of the metal tubes and the condenser body. In addition, while I'm within the warranty in terms of time, I have 47K miles. However, I paid the dealer to perform Chryslers "Gold Certification Inspection" only ten months ago while I was still well with in the warranty. The inspection included checking the condenser for leaks. My question is, how long would it take for the condenser to completely corrode like this. My guess is it should have been pretty apparent during the inspection. I want to make a case to the service manager this Sat., so any advice/info. would be great.