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Ford 3.8 head gasket, AXOD transmission failures Windstar Taurus Sable - Ford secret warranty?
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At around 35,000 miles, our Windstar's power steering pump went from silent to matching the decibels of an air-raid siren when revved up (we're not exaggerating). According to the dealership mechanic, this model apparently has an inherently noisy power steering pump that often won't manifest itself until around 35,000 miles.
Still under warranty, the power steering pump was replaced not once but TWICE in order to alleviate the noise. However, the final pump hasn't been as quiet as the original was and is getting noisier by the mile.
About 5,000 miles later, at around 40,000 miles, I started up the vehicle one afternoon to a laboring idle, lurching, and shuddering (no warning when I drove it a couple of hours before). It barely made it home and the Check Engine light soon came on. Upon inspection, our mechanic (non-Ford) found that the head gasket was blown and the 1st and 4th cylinders weren't holding compression. Bad news!!! This vehicle isn't supposed to need a tune-up until 100,000 miles, so this was a big shock. Our mechanic said this a common malady that he sees frequently. He suggested calling Ford Motor Company because the mileage was so low.
We called Ford Motor Company's Customer Care and were instructed to have it towed to the local dealership for service under Ford Motor Company's Customer Care plan.
Even though the vehicle was out of warranty, Ford said they would pay for all repairs under the provision that we bought a retroactive warranty extension (to the tune of $495). A letter was sent from the Customer Care rep to our dealer explaining the situation and how it should be handled.
After replacing the head gasket, the dealership's mechanic gave it back with a "clean bill of health".
Less than 24 hours later, the problem was back and so was the Check Engine light. We took it back in and the engine was torn down again, had two sets of lifters replaced, and then was reassembled. Upon test-driving the vehicle, the technician still heard trouble. So, as I write this review the engine is being torn down for a third time.
We made a call to Customer Care today explaining our concerns that this will never be a trustworthy vehicle again. Luckily, we were talking with one of the more helpful customer care staff members. [The whole staff has been extremely helpful in documenting the entire process.] The staff member we spoke to today promised to escalate the matter to the regional representative that works directly with the dealership. We are currently waiting for a callback to discuss getting rid of this lemon (it's a lease).
One thing that the Customer Care rep strongly advised is that we do not take an aggressive approach toward the dealer in trying to get this resolved. If the dealer perceives a threat, they will be less apt to accommodate us. Dealerships apparently hate having the regional reps get involved and won't be too happy about it. Unfortunately, it's the dealership's own fault because they have not responded to any of the e-mail correspondence sent to them by Ford Customer Care headquarters. Apparently, a 48-hour dealership response is considered mandatory by Ford headquarters.
In the meantime, I am driving a rental car from Enterprise paid in full by Ford (under the aforementioned extended warranty). It's a Ford Taurus station wagon. Don't buy one of those either.
July '99 on vacation 800 miles from home, transmission failed at 67K miles - $2000 repair/$450 car rental. (No satisfaction after numerous complaints to Ford Customer Diservice)
Now on 2/9 with less than 73K miles, a blown head gasket - estimated repair $1100 to $1600.
On 2/12 we bought a 2000 Toyota Camry after doing extensive research and are looking forward to owning a reliable vehicle for a change. As soon as the Sable comes out of the shop, I'm pulling the plate and putting it up for sale. I hate to sell this lemon to some unsuspecting person, but I've got to cut my losses somehow. I will NEVER purchase another Ford product and will tell everyone I meet about this travesty!
I read your post, and do feel sorry for you, but you took a risk and bought a used car without a warranty. I just recently bought a '93 Sable with 70K on it (which I still love after 10K miles). Got a 3000 mile warranty with it. The head gaskets were replaced, and they fixed a small problem with the suspension for free. Chances are (if the previous owner took good care of the car) it will not have very many more problems (except minor) stuff in the future. Sorry about your bad luck with your lemon. Hope you like your Camry.
First your statement "The head gaskets were replaced". Head gaskets should last MUCH longer than 70,000 miles. There is no way that it should be acceptable to have them fail so soon. They should last for the life of the car.
Second is your statement "Chances are (if the previous owner took good care of the car) it will not have very many more problems"
I had a 93 T-bird and still own the 95 Windstar. Both vehicles were maintained according to Ford's recommended schedule. Oil changes at 3,000 miles and the 15K,30K and 60K service was performed by Ford dealers. We did EVERYTHING by the book. No indication from any dealer about head gasket problems. Yet, the head gaskets in the Windstar went at 59K and the head gaskets in the T-bird went at 72K.
I suppose the real problem is that Ford is offering a very limited warranty for a few select vehicles (94 Taurus/Sable and 95 Windstar). Other manufacturers have had similar problems, most notably Toyota and Chevy. Both of those manufacturers offered a 7 year (8 in the case of Toyota) or 100,000 mile warranty to replace the head gaskets. Had Ford admitted to the problem and offered the same to owners of 89-95 3.8 engines, they wouldn't have the "black eye" that this head gasket thing is giving them
I always feel like asking people who own newer cars with the 3.8L engine if they did any research about their cars. I bought my Sable almost a year ago, and I know the common problems for the Taurus/Sable (transmission, head gaskets, heater core.) These are problems that have plagued the Taurus up till the redesign in '96. When I bought my car, I was aware that these were possible problems. I always wonder why people act surprised that the old design headgaskets in their 3.8L V6 engine are faulty. All they had to do was sign on to the internet to figure that out. You even point out that 3.8L engines have had problems since '89. That is a track record of 11 years.
Don't get me wrong, I am not making excuses for Ford. I think it is wrong that they took so long to redesign the headgaskets and that they won't compensate many people (I'd probably be complaining too if my headgaskets weren't replaced for free), but there is a point where we need to do our research and be ready for posibilities. Personally, I like the power of the 3.8L engine, but I probably will never buy another Ford product that uses the 3.8L engine because I have experienced the problem firsthand. Ford is phasing them out slowly. I would however buy another Ford product.
Ford lately". When I bought my 1993 T-bird, their slogan was "Quality is job 1". I loved my T-bird. Maintained it well, and was impressed enough with Ford to opt for the 1995 Windstar. My T-bird was 6 years old and the Windstar was 4 years old when they blew the gaskets. Ford could care less about pre 1995 vehicles - their attitude seems to be "you ought to buy a new car anyway". I did, too. i traded in the T-bird on a new car. It just wasn't a Ford. When it's time to trade the Windstar, it won't be for another Ford either. Ford's attitude will come back to haunt them. There are lots of 3.8 owners who feel as I do. Quality wasn't job 1 with them after all.
"Quality is job 1" is a lie. My mom has a '92 Tempo that is just a piece of garbage. I like Ford overall, but they have put out some dogs in their time. Constant problems have plagued that car. Recently, it has suffered the paint problem that is inherint to many dark blue domestics of the late '80s and early '90s. The paint was microchecking (basically the clearcoat was defective, and flaking off.) We went to complain to the service manager at the dealership she bought it from (Norristown Ford in Pennsylvania.... AWFUL DEALERSHIP!!! AVOID AT ALL COSTS!!!!) We brought the technical service bulletin with us that discusses how to fix the microchecking. The service manager said he never heard of it, and then we pulled out the tsb. He said he never saw that either. We gave him a copy, and told him to read it over and get back to us. We asked him if quality really was job #1. He told us that was Ford's motto, but that was all it was. I think if she had bought it from a reputable dealer, we would have had a chance of getting it fixed, but since she bought it from a shady sleazy dealership, there was no chance.
I just want everyone to know that although I like my Sable, and would buy another Ford product, I do feel that Ford (as with all the other auto makers) have screwed plenty of people. It is up to us to be as informed as possible, and not let them take advantage of us anymore. Places like Edmunds empower us against them, and we won't be treated like idiots anymore.
How did you put your car picture on your bio. That is really cool!
State attorneys,State representatives etc etc etc. Something WILL get done. We all have to get off our A** and make some noise. Not noise to Ford, since they are deaf. I had a problem with Ford over a New truck that was previously repaired. I told them I bought a NEW truck not a repaired truck. I made pleanty of noise. To make a ling storty short, They spent nearly $100,000 fighting me. They ended up giving me a new truck, plus I drove the old one for three years, but they DID listen. We all have to make noise often.
One thing that is wonderful is being covered in the Cleveland Plain Dealer - A worker in the engine plant GAVE BACK the PC that Ford bought. HE said that the money would be better spent helping the customers who had the 3.8 engine. Of course, Ford management won't listen to a lowly line worker. No they have their staff of MBA bean counters making those kinds of decisions. I'll tell you what...If Ford got rid of the MBA suits and put more people like this line worker in decision making positions, they would be the premier automaker in the world.
class action law suit that may be underway
against Ford Motor Co. for the head gasket failures on 3.8L engines. If there is not already
one underway then e-mail me and I will see what it
takes to get the ball rolling. There are alot of
us out here that have been done wrong by Ford. If
we all get together we can WIN.
ogden4@sover.net
Dear Ford Owner:
In preparation for the class action lawsuit that they are preparing
against Ford, our attorneys need the following information from you:
All evidence of the defect in your vehicle's head gasket, including, but
not limited to
1) Any repair receipts.
2) Any repair estimates.
3) Any documentation received from Ford or any dealer regarding the head
gasket problem.
4) Any other items you may have relating to this. One person for example,
actually kept the head gasket.
5) The date you purchased your car.
6) The date you sought to have the gasket repaired.
7) The mileage on the vehicle at the time you sought to have the gasket
repaired.
8) Any correspondence you sent to Ford.
9) The amount of actual damages you suffered.
10) Whether you had the gasket tested at anytime before the gasket
failed.
a) If so, Who tested it and the test results.
Please be as brief and direct as possible in answering the questions and
include actual documents, invoices, repair bills, etc., when possible.
All material should be mailed directly to:
Clifford Horwitz, Esq.
Horwitz, Horwitz & Associates, Ltd.
25 E. Washington St., Suite 900
Chicago, IL 60602
The goal of all of this, of course, is to win reimbursements for all of
the Ford owners who have been affected by this problem.
Thanks very much for your cooperation.
James R. Hood
ConsumerAffairs.Com
Email: jhood@consumeraffairs.com
I've heard that whenever one headgasket fails, you should just have the other replaced as well. I think the headgasket actually costs $7 while the labor is what costs a fortune. So if anyone else has one of their headgaskets fail, just have the other replaced at the same time. It will save you a lot of money in the longrun (assuming the other headgasket will eventually fail.)
http://home.att.net/~ccatanese/ford/mainx.htm
Nice van, loaded, excellent shape (or so I
thought).
Recently I experienced lack of heat or heat only
while driving as opposed to idling, so I took
the van in for a coolant check and a brake
inspection. I was informed that brake work was
needed, as expected, but also that the head
gasket needed replacement - a cost of $1500+
Canadian! I was also informed that the radiator
was leaking and should be replaced as well as the
timing cover gasket.
I bought the van from a Ford dealer and specifically asked about the haed gasket problem
I had heard regarding the 1995 model. The salesman
told me that was isolated to that model, that
1996+ was okay. He even had a guy who happened
to be in the showroom at the time, and that works
at the local Ford engine plant to answer my
concern as well - this guy says the engine is very
good and reliable. Now look where I am!
I'll post an update. I go back Monday to schedule
the work and talk to the service rep.
I wish I had found this website sooner.
My Head gasket just blew last week and I parked the vehicle as soon as it overheated. The warranty will not cover the replacement of the engine but will pay for them to rebuild it. This has left a bad taste in my mouth and I will never purchase another Ford product again. I always thought that it was a good idea to buy American but with the lack of quality in their products it makes it hard to trust that they can compete with the Japanese or Germans for that matter. We as consumers need a voice in Detroit and in Washington that will send a clear message that we will no longer put up with second rate or inferior products, or we can all just buy Japanese Cars and maybe they will wake up.
My husband is driving it to work only. He says it runs sluggishly and misfires.
Has anyone had similar troubles or advise for us.
We are victims also. We had the transmission in
our van replaced at 48,000 miles originally under warranty and now just under 74,000 we had to replace it again....out of my own pocket $1800 which included a motor mount which our warranty had ran out. Not to say that Ford had already replaced a blown head gasket as well as numerous other problems with this van.Most of which was covered under the extended warranty.....which I highly recommend purchasing a bumper to bumper warranty on any vehicle.
We have contacted Ford/Detroit with this problem and also our local dealership for some compensation.... which won't even return my calls.
We were devastated when the mechanic told us $1800 on a van that still looks like brand new.
I called four other mechanics that all told me that this was a very common problem with Windstar,Sable & Tarus....they all have AXODE transmissions and until Ford fixes this problem not one of them suggested purchasing a Ford product with this transmission. The mechanic that put us in a new transmission told us that all Ford needed to do was add an additional hole to the transmission. We really have enjoyed our van until all these problems began to creep up in the past two years and they just don't seem to stop. So we too are selling our van. We think "60 minutes" should be called in on this problem. We will continue our pursuit for compensation from FORD.
Good Luck!
Can anyone help me with a course of action to take. I feel like I have been ripped off because Ford sold me a car with a known design defect and now they are saying too bad. I am faced with a $1800 bill.
I am in the north Atlanta GA area. The dealer told me to check the web for more info.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
http://home.att.net/~ccatanese/ford
The site is will say "Windstar" but you will find info on the 3.8 liter engine, "success stories" for folks who have fought and won, information on the class action lawsuits, and other useful information.
Check it out, and good luck.
whatever I have to, so that some other poor sap doesn't get stuck with this problem. Thanks.
I posted my problem earlier, my name is foundonroadded. The Van is still in the shop after spending a week being fixed. The additional warranty did cover the costs, but they would not replace the engine, but instead asked my mechanic to overhaul it. Anyway I got it back it conked out on the highway, so I took it back and my mechanic thinks its the crankshaft now. He says that as parts are replaced the stressed parts will come to light. His recommendation from thee start was to replace the engine but the warranty folks would not hear it because thee cost of overhaul 2400.00 vs the cost of a remanufactured engine was 3500.00. Well it will be intersting to see what the want to do now.
Apparently after the dealer addressed the problem, they called and asked us if we had had any problem starting the vehicle, the which the answer was no, not really. They could not, apparently get it to run following their work. After an additional week evaluating the problem, the summary, believe it or not, was they replaced the entire engine with an new, not just a target rebuilt. When asked what they thought was wrong, they stated that the antifreese has washed the grease from a 'main bearing'?? Now how that has anything to do with the auto not starting I don't know but who's to argue in this case. Sounds like they were on a snipe hunt if you ask me, but it was their decision.
Thanks. I plan to rerepair vehicle next week using an independent mechanic at 60 to 70 % under the cost of the dealer. The mechanic said he has done hundreds of this type of repair on the 3.8 L engine. Other mechanics are also aware of the problem.
Thanks,
Cliff
I had the check engine light on last week for about 2 days while I was out of town. I idled the car for about an hour and it went off. My mechanic checked it yesterday - O2 Sensor which seems to be a common problem before so many loose the engine or head gasket. His advise, Sell it this weekend if possible while the light isn't on.
Read my next post because I'm going to post some possible good news for you. The 1st class action law suit has been filed and it includes all 3.8 engines not just certain years. Now if I can get them to include the intake gasket as well as the head gasket.
owners of vehicles with 3.8-liter V-6 engines that
are alleged to have defective head gaskets. The suit asks that Ford be ordered to reimburse consumers who paid to have the head gaskets repaired on any 3.8-liter V-6 in any Ford vehicle without regard to model year. Some of those
repairs exceeded $3,000, the suit said. The suit, which seeks class-action status covering potentially thousands of Ford owners, was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Northern
District of Ohio, in Toledo. It contends head gaskets should last for "theuseful life of an engine" and that Ford had a duty to consumers to design a head gasket that would not fail prematurely. But while Ford told consumers it builds high-quality vehicles, it failed in its responsibility, forcing consumers to pay for
engine repairs, the suit said. A Ford spokeswoman in Michigan said the automaker had not seen the case and could not comment. The suit was filed on behalf of Mark Walski, of Huron, and Robert Reiber, of Sandusky, by the Sandusky law firm Murray & Murray. Reiber and Walski had the head gaskets on their 1995 Ford Windstars fail. In 1998 Ford acknowledged it had a problem with the premature failure of head gaskets on some 3.8-liter V-6 engines. It extended the warranty on 719,000 vehicles by two years and about 24,000 miles. Those vehicles were the 1994-'95 Taurus and Sable, the 1995 Windstar and the 1994 Lincoln Continental. However, Ford has declined to cover head gasket repairs after the extended warranty has expired. And, it has refused to extend coverage beyond the normal three years/36,000 miles for 3.8-liter V-6 engines used in other model years or other vehicles, such as the Thunderbird. Ford has built millions of vehicles with 3.8-liter V-6 engines. The suit filed yesterday asks to represent all owners of 3.8-liter V-6 or 4.2-liter V-6 engines used in any Ford vehicle without regard to model year. However, court action could narrow the models and years. The 4.2-liter V-6 is used in some Ford trucks and is a variant of the 3.8-liter engine.
It could be several years before the case goes
to court. If the judge certifies the case as a class-action suit, the owners of Ford vehicles that are covered would automatically be included as part of the class. Details on how consumers could participate would be disclosed later. The case may also be delayed because a Chicago firm has filed a similar suit against Ford. That makes it possible that the federal court will combine these Ford head-gasket cases with any others.
The engine was knocking a little when it was cold. The dealer looked at it and determined that the head gasket was leaking and the bearings are shot. However, I guess I am one of the lucky ones. After 2 days of the dealer trying to get an answer from the Ford rep, they said that they will install a new engine with a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty. My cost $495. Heck, they were going to charge me $600 to do the 60,000 mile service.
I'm still without a car for 2 weeks and the dealer is only covering 2 days of the rental car.
Bottom line. I may be lucky compared to some, but this should never happen. I went to the Honda dealer to check out the Odyssey. I'll be getting rid of this Windstar soon.
check out Edmund's review of the Odyssey (specifically complaints about the tranny), and all the Odyssey Problems topics in the Vans section. You probably won't want an Odyssey either.
FOR RELEASE 4:00 P.M. EST
FORD EXTENDS WARRANTY ON CERTAIN 3.8L ENGINE HEAD GASKETS TO 7 YEARS/100,000
MILES
DEARBORN, Mich., Feb, 25, 2000 -- In the interest of customer satisfaction,
Ford Motor Company is extending the warranty on the head gaskets on the 1994
Lincoln Continental, 1994-1995 Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable, and 1995 Ford
Windstar with 3.8L V-6 engines to 7 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes
first. The original extension, issued in 1998, was for 5 year/60,000 miles
for the Taurus, Sable and Windstar vehicles, and 6 years/75,000 miles on
Continental.
"When Ford issued the original warranty extension, our data indicated that
the extension would cover the affected vehicles over the time and mileage
where owners were most likely to have a head gasket concern," said Ann
O'Neill, director, vehicle service and programs, Ford Customer Service
Division. "But, as these vehicles have aged, we have received new data that
indicate that some owners are having failures outside the original warranty
extension."
Owners of these vehicles who experienced head gasket failures during the
7year/100,000 mile time frame will be eligible for a full refund for past
repairs, or for a limited time, may choose a $4,000 certificate to be used
towards the purchase or lease of a new Ford, Mercury or Lincoln. Vehicle
owners will receive a communication from Ford via first-class mail in March
explaining the warranty extension.
"We have looked at the data, listened to the voice of our customers, and are
taking action because customer satisfaction is our number one priority,"
said O'Neill.
I have the same problem with bad bearings on my 95 Windstar. May I ask you two questions: (1) How did repair shop know bearings were bad without opening up engine? Did they just conclude that based on your symptoms? (2) Why did they agree to fix the bearings problem for you given that your were beyond warranty? What did you say or how did you approach issue to get them to do that for you? I'm staring a $2300 repair bill in the face now per my own local mechanic and would really appreciate any info you could give me to avoid having to pay that. Thanks!!
Regards,
JHendry1
The safe way is to post a link instead of copying the text.
In any case, this IS great news for the long-suffering owners of these engines.
your host, Bruce
I'm currently looking at buying a '95 Windstar with the 3.8L. An elderly couple had it, traded up for a 2000 'Star, and it only has 28K miles. They have all associated paperwork regarding any maintenance work, which includes work to replace the head gasket after they received an owner notification of recall in '98. Should I have other concerns regarding this vehicle? Thanks in advance for your help,
runngman
Ask yourself this (if you are old enough to remember): Would you buy a nice Chevy Vega that was owned by an elderly couple who only took it to church on Sundays? The Windstar is the Vega of the 90's
To answer your questions. First, remember that I was having it serviced at the Ford Dealer. The same one that I had bought it from and had all my maintainence done at previously.
At first the dealer said that they would have to tear down the engine just to see what the problem was. At a cost of about $450 to me. However, they said IF Ford would help me, the total cost would be no more than $495 for anything up to and including a new engine. If Ford did not help out I would be out a minimum of $1000 just to get the engine back together with no repairs. When I told them that I would take the car, my service advisor spoke to the mechanic. He said that for $67 they could drop the oil pan, check out the bearings and see if there was coolant in the oil. For $67 I told them to look at it. I had already emphasised to the Service Manager that THEY had done all the previous work on the car. THEY had inspected the HG a year earlier and THEY had done the emissions check and safety check 2 months earlier. I let him know, in no uncertain terms, that I was NOT happy with this situation and I expected THEM to back their product. The service manager was trying to get the engine approval from the beginning. He had definitely been down this road before. The biggest factor seemed to be that I was only 3 months and 1000 miles beyond the warranty and all my service had been done there.
I have since found out that this is Ford's PO7 program to replace the engine. This is a program that Ford had in place BEFORE the Feb 25th announcement of the secound warranty extention. Before the Service Manager had contacted the Ford rep I made sure that he was aware of the fact that I knew about the class action suit and the problems with the 3.8 V6.
With the latest announcement from Ford you should be able to take it to a Ford dealer and they should Pick up the bill.
Good Luck