Ford 3.8 head gasket, AXOD transmission failures Windstar Taurus Sable - Ford secret warranty?

robboman

Hello everyone, just wanted to suggest that you all also keep track of conference 815, Ford Windstar Problems. Others and I have posted information about the deals that we worked at various locations. Make sure that you are in the, pardun the pun, driver's seat, through all of the negotiations! As I wrote in my post in 815, the dealers can go to qcdealer.com, fdealer.com, or lmdealer.com to access information regarding the Consumer Focus Certificate, (CFC). The information there includes letters directly from Ford, and questions and answers regarding the process. One of the Ford Service Managers, that was getting sick of my long letters, gave me copies of this information. I then used that information at a Mercury dealer to make my deal happen. The March 22, 2000 letter has the names Darryl Hazel, Executive Director of Ford Customer Service, Jim O'Connor, President, Ford Devision, and Mark Hutchins, President, Lincoln Mercury Division on the bottom. In short, I got $4,000 CFC, + trade $6,000 for Gl with 91 K and some some damage, + $2,000 rebate for a Villager. Total of $12,000 off after tax and fees on a new '99 that was already reduced. You can make a deal happen for yourself, but you must be persistant, calm, knowledgeable, and insistive! Make sure you have spoken to the Regional Ford rep in your area about the process, not just the service manager. Demand to get the name of that person, and document the failures of them to contact you! Good luck!

pat455

are over in our Vans conference. Here is a link to the one robboman suggests: Ford Windstar problems.

Other topics can be found by keying Windstar in to the Topic Search feature on the left of this page.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

emurphy1

Has anyone else heard of continuing problems with
the Windstar's 3.8 engine regarding coolant working
its way into main bearing area? I've now had 3
HG's (all covered under warranty so no $4000
make-good)and the strong smell of coolant persists.
The service mgr. claims no knowledge of this but
it's supposedly well-known in the
industry,especially with wholesalers. They also
claim that Ford's out of replacement engines; so,
who knows 4 HG's? If Ford gave me the $4000 1.5
months ago, they'd be done with this and I would
have had a new SEL or SE. Any tech bulletins on
this main bearing situation and any other
suggestions on how I might still get the customer
incentive? Thanks ahead of time!

indytab

Just within a year after our HG was replaced, I noted a coolant smell around the car (mainly from the engine area). Coolant level didn't seem to be going down and temperature gage was normal. Took it in for inspection by dealer who serviced HG first time. Was still within 1 yr warranty on HG repair. Dealer said new HG put pressure on other (older) gaskets and said some of the other gaskets would have to be replaced (for another $1K). Didn't have the money so have simply ignored the issue for now. Coolant level still apparently OK after 2 months and no change on temp. gage. Coolant smell is very slight; seems less in warmer weather.

I believe the dealer said the leaking gasket was in the timing chain cover; not sure if that makes sense.

bikerider

This is the first time I've seen this site. I have a 95' Sable with the 3.8 v6 45k miles. The head gaskets have been replaced twice. I can't believe that others are actually considering buying another Ford/Mercury product after going through many of the issues I've seen here. The manufacturer would not be offering anything if a Class Action suit had not been brought against them. The 2 dealers I dealt with were terrible and of no help what so ever. Ford denied all my claims until the suit was settled then I was suddenly offered their "No compromise customer service policy". I say don't buy from these people. When they offer you $3-$k for another car(of theirs) they are just getting more of your money!

sable93

bikerider,

I would buy another Ford or Mercury product, but I would not buy one with the 3.8L engine. The power is nice, but the headgaskets are a serious problem. Other than the headgaskets (twice), my '93 Sable has only had 2 small problems in the 1+ year I've had it.

ilovefarming

I had to have the timing gasket and some kind of manifold gasket replaced on my 95 Windstar because of coolant leaks. The dealer did the HG replacement at the same time, supposedly to save me money, but I think they saw evidence of damage. I had to pay for the replacement of the other gaskets, $900 worth. In the end it was all too little too late; the engine blew 5 months later on a trip. Now I drive a Sienna. No More Fords for me. And Bikerider is correct; Ford's "response" to all these troubles is only the result of the lawsuits (3 and counting), and other pressure put on them. They would never have addressed the issue without it. I choose not to continue to reward their callous and cavalier attitude with more business.

indytab

I hadn't heard from the Ford people or dealer regarding the disposition of the $4K certificate. So, I went in to the dealer: service manager was on vacation, but #2 service man knew exactly about my case. The dealer was called directly by Ford Motor in Detroit (the service manager said he could smell the mahogeny paneling) and the dealer was told in no uncertain terms that the $4K cert. was to be issued to me and I was free to use it at any Ford, Lincoln, or Mercury dealer I wished. So, that little misunderstanding is now cleared up.

Now I have to decide whether to accept the certificate and gamble on making a better deal on my trade-in at another (Ford) dealer, or take the reimbursement for the $1k HG repair. $4K and the Ford ball-and-chain OR $1K and freedom. Ah, what price for freedom....?

partridge

Is there a "marketing incentive" I can use
BEFORE my 95 Windstar blows its head gaskets?

The Ford letter extending the warranty to
100,000 miles indicated there was a limited
time marketing incentive and that I should
run down to my friendly neighborhood
Ford dealer to learn the details.

One dealer I called told me that if the engine
were blown, then the Windstar would have no
value, so a $4000 trade-in allowance would be
given instead of using any used car book value.
Another dealer didn't go as far as saying the
old heap was worthless, but did say any limited
time marketing incentives would only apply only
if the head gasket were blown.

Do I have to wait until the Windstar is disabled
before seeking some allowance? It seems to me
that I'm not likely to get the best deal if the
salesman knows my old Windstar can't be driven.

Does anybody know a Ford www-site that might
explain terms and conditions of trade-in
programs related to the 3.8L head gasket
problem?

indytab

scroll through earlier posts and the VANS/WINDSTAR PROBLEMS conference. In one of the recent posts (within last week), chuck catanese's Windstar site is listed (exceptional source of information). For blown engines, several have posted here that Ford will buy back the car ($6700 I think) and provide $3K toward a new Ford vehicle (assuming you want to stick with Ford. Those of us who already had blown a head gasket and paid for it ourselves have the choice of repair reimbursement or $4K toward a new Ford/Lincoln/Mercury.

If your van hasn't blown a HG, I don't think you get an incentive, but your covered for a little while longer in case it does. First sign of rough idling, coolant smell in exhaust, overheating, or check engine light, take it in to avoid blowing the engine also.

Unfortunately, it's becoming well known that the 38L engines in WSs have HG problems and even if your particular WS is performing well, it's value suffers for the reputation.

No easy answers.

5speed1

Howdy all--been 2 weeks & the WS is STILL at the shop! Long story short--nope no 4K/3K for me. thanks to all for the tips though.

Such fun--the service guy calls me & says he's helping out the person I first dealt with when it all started. HE tells me the front gasket (whatever that is, I am no gearhead) is bad to the tune of $535.00. I say "whoa! Michelle told me all along it was the head gasket" and that it was covered under warranty.

Can anybody explain to a mech. moron such as myself the differences? I asked the guy if the two problems (head gasket & front gasket) could be related (thinking it should ALL be covered ferguddnisssake!) but he says they're separate issues. Are they?

PS later on I ask him to double check the head gasket issue--he comes back on the line with a lackluster "oh, yea...that needs to be done, too". rrrrrggggg.

I initially brought it in 'cause of coolant leaking. Not a major blow up like the first HG failure but it worried me enough.

I wonder if the fine folks at Ford read this stuff? Never again in a Ford for me!

bmaige

When our '95 Mustang blew a head gasket, which I had to pay to replace because the 3.8L engines in no other vehicle than Windstar or Taurus do that, they had to replace a gasket on the timing chain cover because of coolant leak. Having never heard of anything so ridiculous, when they told me that I flew hot and told them to hold everything until I got back to them, then contacted a Ford mechanic I trust who told me on the 3.8L in the '95 Mustang if the gasket leaked it could leak coolant. I assume, albeit the 3.8L engine in the '95 Mustang must be VASTLY DIFFERENT than those in the Windstar and Taurus since they don't blow head gaskets, that you may have the same problem.

ilovefarming

I am in agreement with you that these gaskets in and around the engine should NOT be separate issues when it comes to engine failures because of leaking coolant and such, but our dear dear "friends" at FORD shall continue to make them so. That is how I got ripped off for $900 for the timing cover gasket (or whatever you call it) and FORD will not reimburse me. Keep repeating the mantra, NO MORE FORDS. I think Ford is starting to read these posts, but no one seems to care about ensuring longterm customers. They must believe there will always be plenty of lemmings to follow them into the sea...

5speed1

ilovefarming, you're right! Funny, the dealer finally gave me a loaner & they were done with the WS the next day. Oh well. I'm out 620 bucks or so...never mind I never got the ABS fixed, which is what I brought it in for in the first place! Guess I'll just do what my Dad used to do with his old Mustangs & put a piece of black electrical tape over the idiot light
Anybody wanna buy a 95?! Just kidding. Here's hoping this repair holds, we only have 2 more payments!

bdbfam1

Been reading the dilemma with the 95 WS. Aside from the HG problem and ghosts in the lights, is the vehicle ok to own? I have a chance to buy a 95WS GL that has had both HG replaced. One blew, changed the other while they were there. Vehicle is immaculate and owner has very detailed maintenance records which show no other abnormalities. It has 83K on it and I can get it for 7000.00. Has dual air, new tires, etc. Should I stay away or with the HG's replaced is it a good deal?

bmaige

Our Windstar has been great so far. It has 74,000 miles on it, and we have had no problems with the engine or transmission--yet. We did have problems with the cruise control that cost us $300 to fix, but it rides and drives like a car, and the seven passenger seating is great for our family. I have no complaints thus far, except I don't trust it after seeing all the problems Ford is having with the 3.8L engine and having the 3.8L engine in our '95 Mustang blow a head gasket for no apparent reason. That cost us around $1,400.00 to repair, but more important now if my wife needs to go out of town alone I am concerned until I know she has arrived safely. If you are going to use it around town, on short trips, and engine failure is not important to you it may be all right, but if you want a reliable vehicle you can trust to transport you from point A to point B, find another.

pjyoung

The problem with the Windstar is that it didn't matter how well maintained the vehicle was. A glove box full of oil change and routine maintenance reciepts meant nothing to the head gaskets. And it appears to mean nothing to the transmission that is heading south.

Check out the frozen topic in the VANS conferecne for "Ford Windstar Problems". One person had Ford "buy back" their 95 with 33,000 miles for $6,500.

The vans are sure nice, no doubt about that, but purchasing a 95 Windstar can be summed up in 2 words: Caveat Emptor

bdbfam1

I appreciate the input regarding the purchase of the 95WS. I believe I'll heed the advice and stay to the cautious side and look elsewhere for a good vehicle.

ilovefarming

PJYoung is correct about the glove box full of maintenance receipts on the 95 Windstar. That is what I had; was meticulous about maintaining it. The gaskets blew for no apparent reason. I had none of the supposed "warning signs" that our lovely friends at Ford are so careful to detail in the new extended warranty, other than the check engine light, which we were told 6 months before the leaks started, was just a "computer glitch."
I don't think my transmission would have lasted much longer either, even though I had no signs of problems. It is very true that if you need to trust getting from point A to point B consistently, stay away from the Windstar. If your wife does not want to have a knot in her stomach every time she drives, wondering if she will arrive safely, she will not step into a Windstar. But if you like to live on the wild and unpredictable side, go for it.

Also - I once had to pull off a highway during a storm squall because my windshield wipers inexplicably stopped working. Talk about a safety issue!!

Keep repeating, NO MORE FORDS, NO MORE FORDS....

indytab

There's been much talk about whether to take Ford up on their HG certificates or get reimbursed and shop elsewhere. Well, we looked at the economics and decided we could do well with a new Taurus applying the $4K incentive. The large down payment protects us from being upside down on the loan after three years (end of warranty period) in the event we want to trade it in.

Some of you may remember my problem with wrestling my $4K certificate away from the original dealer so I could shop at other dealers to get a better deal on my 95 WS for trade-in. I went to the dealer Saturday to pick up the certificate and a new sales manager asked for another chance to work out a deal. The long and short of it is, once they thought I was going to shop elsewhere with the $4K certificate, they offered me a bit more for the 95 WS. Sorry, ilovefarming, didn't repeat "NO MORE FORDS" enough, I guess.

bdfam1, if reliability is a number one priority, you would do well to get another make of van. Ours seemed to be doing well after the HG was replaced, but it was slowly losing coolant from elsewhere, and the check-engine light remained on after resetting. Unfortunately for those of us wanting to trade in for something else, the WS values are plummeting.

My final recorded trade-in was $7000 (83K miles on 95 WS, not fully loaded, but more than average options). In reality, the dealer made up some of the trade-in on the price of the Taurus (5% above invoice) so effectively I got a 2000 Taurus close to invoice and $6000 trade-in. The 95 WS market is tough.

All in all, I'm generally happy and willing to give Ford another chance. We'll see how the Taurus works out...

joan92sable

My 92 Sable Wagon HG just went for the 2nd time. I have 72,000 on it. The dealer/maint. dept has agreed to come down from $1800. to $1400 to repair
it. I planned to have this car for several more years. I have always maintained it. Most repairs were under the extended warranty. This car has the same 3.8LV-6 as those they issued the $4000.certificates for. They have not issued anything for this model. Has anyone had any success getting credit from Ford for this model??

I am thinking of leasing a new Sable wagon.

scardona

I too own a wn95. I took it in today for a recall on the gas tank. And was faced with a 1000.00 dollar estimate for the timing gasket. The service manager said it was leaking coolant. On the bright side the hg is ok. but I don,t know for how long.I am really disgusted with this whole situation. How does the 4k work? Can I recieve it if my hg is not blown yet? I called Ford about a recall concerning the coolant leak but they played dumb about it. Any info would be appreciated. God Bless

ilovefarming

At this point, there is no warranty or reimbursement or anything at all for the timing gasket. It is only the head gasket and if that looks fine, you are out of luck. Same thing happened to me. Cost me $900. They replaced the head gasket at the same time under warranty. And then the engine blew anyway 5000 miles later. Ford refuses to reimburse because it is not listed in the head gasket "program."
As far as Ford playing dumb, it is not hard for them to do. They excel at it. The Windstar is prime evidence of it. That's why I drive a Sienna now.

mgmd

There was a short blurb in todays business section of the washington post that said Ford has expanded their extended warranty coverage to include 94&95 T birds, mustangs and cougars with 3.8L engines. Maybe one day they will do the right thing and include all 3.8L engines that have less than 100,000 (including my 93 Ford Taurus). But that would probably make too much sense for them. I can't wait for my small claims court date in July. Even if Ford decides to show up and I lose at least I'll know I did what I thought was right. I wouldn't own another Ford if they offered me $14,000 towards the purchase!

jwhib

Tell me what you think of it so far - for I'm trying to see whether it's worth getting - please any information would be grateful

thanks
Jwhib

pat455

The best place to find owners of a 2000 Windstar would be in our Vans conference. And the easiest way to get a topic list on Windstars would be to key Windstar into the Topic Search feature on the left side of this page.

Good luck!

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

stevea5

I just traded my 95 WS in on a 2000. Got $50 over invoice and the $3000 from Ford and Ford bought back my car so they can get it off the road. Plus the .9% financing. Here is my experience.
I went to 3 dealerships and none of them understood Ford's CFC program. I literally got a different story from everyone. In one dealership 3 guys gave me three stores. Not deception, just ignorance as the program is so new. One guy even said he called Ford in MI.
Anyway, there is a notebook that the sales manager should have which spells it out. If your van needs the new engine and the dealership can't get one in 5 days, you are eligible to receive $3000 toward a new Ford product. Ford will then buy back your vehicle for a set price. There is a page in the book that has the buy back figures. It is under Extended Parts Delay Offer. It is effective concurrent with ONP #00M09. It says, "Customer has an eligible vehicle where a repair would require the replacement of an engine, and a 3.8 liter engine is not available, the Company will offer to purchase the vehicle from the customer. For customer satisfaction purposes, and assuming the customer is willing to accept the offer, the following amount will be paid for their vehicle:
Windstar GL: $6650
Windstar LX: $8300

In this list are also 94-95 Taurus & Sable, and 94 Continental. The sheet says the prices are based on the NADA auction Guide, average condition. And it looks like the prices are updated monthly.
The $3000 check is called a CFC (Consumer Focus Certificate).
If you get a new engine, and it is working fine, you are not eligible for the offer. The $4000 offer is different. The way it was explained to me is that it goes to people who laid out their own money for HG repairs.
So I got $9650 for my 95WS that I drove for 30,000 miles and paid $11,000. I guess that's not bad. This is the first new car I have ever bought in my 49 years of life. I would have preferred being able to put the $$ on a used WS. But then I read the pinging problems people have on the 99s. I hope and pray it isn't a problem with the 2000s. Good luck to all of you.

fordprob95

Let me start by stating I'm completely ticked that a five-year-old vehicle can have such problems. My post on 2/28 stated that my HG where bad, It all started when my heater would not work. I took it to the Ford dealer and ended up spading $900.00 for a leaking timing chain gasket, Sound familiar! Anyway 4/27/00 Husband loaded up car to go to Montana on Mini Vacation with his bothers and guess what 200 miles and almost exactly 2-month after Ford replaced my HG. HG blew! Husband calls me from Cell phone saying HELP! I had to get Insurance to Tow car back to closets town and husband and bother had to stay in Hotel Ended up borrowing my mother car to go get them next day. My point to this story is now HG are blown dealer thinks this may have messed up the Transmission but of course this is not covered under the warranty and I to am faced with the cash incentive of 3K plus 6500 for trade in.
I think they should reimburse me the $60 in gas to go get my husband and the Hotel fee, the Day of work I missed to do this and the 900 bucks that I just shelled out for the Timing chain that Gasket. That’s at least another $1200 bucks that Ford should pay.
Not sure what I'm going to do yet!
Has anyone else had the HG blow and do damage to the Transmission?

indytab

for what it's worth: take the $6500 trade-in and the $3K certificate. We paid for our HG problem last year and opted for the $4K certificate. When making a deal, we had to wrestle to get a reasonable trade-in for our 95 WS, but in the end I think it was worth it. We bought a 2000 Taurus with some nice options, no money out of our pocket and kept our payments the same for brand new car.

I would do alot of research on the 2000 WS, since I've read of a high complaint record already on those. Another option: take the $3K certificate to a Mercury dealer and look at the Villager if you still want a minivan. Remember, the certificate is yours to take to any Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealer. My dealer originally said that I HAD to use it where I applied for it. NOT SO!. Ford Motor Co. called the dealer and straightened him out. I eventually used it at the same dealer, but only after I went to pick up the certificate to shop at another dealer. The original dealer asked for another chance, so I said "why not?", and finally got a reasonable trade-in and good price on the new Taurus. So, if you keep your head and plan ahead you can come out alright.

By the way, I think $6500 for a high mileage 95 WS with the engine being shot is pretty darn good. I know it's hard to admit that since the car breakdown has caused you such grief. But, if you try and be objective, the deal works out pretty well. Anyway, that's my perspective. Good luck.

sable93

Well, no more headgasket problems for me. My '93 Sable (on it's 3rd set of headgaskets) was traded in this weekend on a beautiful maroon '97 Taurus GL. I love this car. It has the 3.0L (no more headgasket problems) and a revised tranny (no transmission worries.) It drives great, is beautiful, and I don't have to worry about the car dying on me.

chris08096

I have a 95 LX that I bought new and we really love it. BUT, I just brought it in for it's 60,000 service to find that my car that runs fine needs head gaskets($0) and a timing cover gasket($800). Is this for real? From what I'm reading here I should just dump the van now. Is there anything good to report about these things? I'm planning a road trip out west now I don't want to drive it. Is there any hope for a 'good' Windstar?

pjyoung

Hope for a good Windstar? You might try prayer!

After our head gasket fiasco's, We decided to forgo the minivan on our last road trip this past Thanksgiving and rent a car. The peace of mind more than offset the cost of the rental.

fordprob95

I completely understand how you feel. I to loved
My Windstar. 2 Months ago (Feb 28) I had my HG
Replaced. My husband took road trip 2 1/2 hours
away from home HG blew again. Wrecked his Vacation
He ended home just coming home. Indytab recommends
Dumping the car and I have to tell you that I’m
Starting to agree with him.
I spoke to the Ford dealer services department
Yesterday, If they replace my engine the only
Warranty is for 12 Month / 12,000 Miles.
This is making me rethink my decision to just fix
The car.
I would really like to hear is from someone who
Did have their engine replaced and see how it is
going for them!

justdeda

my ford dealer notified us that we had a leaky headgasket when we went in at 67k miles for a brake job and tranny tuneup. the ford warranty at that point in time ended at 60k. surprise surprise. luckily, we had our own warranty package til 70k, but, not being a ford package, it only covered the head gasket repair, and not what they refer to as "associated damage", which is the replacement of fouled 02 sensor, thermostat, and plugs, that get radiator fluid on them during the repair. the head gasket repair was covered with only $100 deductible, but we had to pay several hundred dollars for the other stuff, (after ford released the repaired vehicle and it broke down within 20 miles.) few months later, we got a letter, and i hope you all out there did too, that all head gasket replacement "and associated damage" repairs done to these windstars up to 100k miles would be reimbursed by ford, or done by ford for free if it hadnt already been repaired.

my question? what took these guys so long to figure out how angry everyone was at their failed first year winstar, and just how much nerve did it take for the ford dealer to point out the problem to us AFTER the 60k mile "ford-will-pay-all" period was just over? ps., on the repair invoice for the head gasket replacement, the service lady had typed in, "customer states head gaskets are leaking coolant" ...hahahahahahahahahahaha...you just KNOW i spend most of my spare time checking out the head gaskets for proper function, and that im going to recognize a leak, and which fluid it is!!!!! i do this in between carpooling 4 kids and shuttling between 2 jobs.

good luck to everyone else out there, in collecting your money, thru your dealer, from ford!

indytab

Sounds like you are new to the information on this HG issue. Scroll back to the beginning of this thread and also look at the vans conference/WS Problems (I and II) threads. You will find a wealth of information and experiences. I for one, have gotten over my anger (former 95 WS HG repair veteran) and took advantage of the $4k incentive toward a new Taurus. I'm satisfied, but it takes awhile to get through the red tape and details of the incentive plan. And, if you want to trade-in the WS, do alot of research to determine its value and stand firm during negotiations. The dealers want to siphon off that $4K incentive money from Ford, so they will negotiate high on the price of the new car and offer several thousand low on a WS trade-in.

Based on wholesale info from a dealer, and about ten posts on Town Hall, it looks like 95 WS with say, 60K to 90K miles will trade-in to a dealer between $4500 (lots of repair work needed) to $8700 (fully loaded with options) with most falling in the range of the upper $6K. Interestingly enough, Ford will buy back a 95 WS with damaged engine (due to HG failure) for $6700 and give $3K incentive. So, if the dealer offers less than $6500 for WS trade-in, he may be trying to skim some money from the incentive.

cbinga1

I, too, am a victim of the failed HG. I did not have any of the signs like most of you out there...only the "check engine" light. Fortunately, mine was "diagnosed" after I received the letter from Ford.

My story does not have a happy ending, however...
3 weeks, to the day, after I got it out of the Ford service center...IT DIED!!!

When we were towed to the dealership, it struck me as odd that they were soooo accomodating. I found out on Monday of this week that a new engine is on order.

I really don't want another car note right now, but on the other hand..don't want to get stuck out on the road, either.
Is there anyone out there that went with the new engine? Are there still problems?

fordprob95

You story sounds familiar, somewhat like mine. We
have decided to fix our van. 1 yr. ago we bought a
Ford Truck, at this time I don't want another car
Payment, so we told them to fix the van. Oh by the
Way, I spoke to my Service rep today, she advised
New engine has 2yr / 24,000 mile warranty this
Makes me feel somewhat better.
I too would like to here from someone who had had
Their engine replaced. I would like to know how it
working for them.
My only complaint is that Ford will only pay for a
rental for 5 days, yet I won't have my car back
for at least 2 more weeks. I think ford owes anyone
who going through this a rental car for the entire
time yours is in the shop!
In the mean time I've borrowed my sisters truck,
My family of Five can't go anywhere together
because we don't all fit in our single cab ranger
or my sister single cab chevy.
Boy do I think ford owes me a Rental Car!

rml8169

I had my Windstar HD replaced last year at 82K miles. The place that repaired my star burned in January. I used debit card to pay for the repair. No receipt, just a debit to my account. I have the bank statement showing the deduction but no proof that the charge was from the HD repair. The receipt that they gave me is unreadable. Ford does not want to honor this. Any suggestions from anyone on how to best approach this.

chris08096

Well, my 95 that went in 5/1 for routine service is still in. In the course of head gasket and timing cover replacement I've uncovered another engineering marvel on the 3.8; The bolts that hold the aluminum intake manifold corrode and break during repair. This somehow resulted in a new manifold being required. Of course it's not in stock and it won't be ready until next week. I can understand that its not the service guy's problem Ford made these headaches but why can I only find out the car won't be ready when I call at 4:30 to go get it! It's also funny that my service "doesn't provide rentals" or loaners until yesterday when I spoke to the service manager and one magically appeared. I later found that a local rental company keeps vehicles on the dealers lot!! What a burn...

ilovefarming

For those of you who are wondering how the "new" engines fare compared with the ones they replaced, I can tell you about mine. It was replaced at 47K miles while on vacation (familiar story, no?). Within one month of returning from vacation, my van was again leaking coolant, using coolant, etc. I had to add coolant every two weeks to the reservoir, all the while shopping for a new van to replace it, because I just knew this thing would not last. I had been assured by the dealer on vacation, who actually was very accommodating to us, that this "new" engine would not cause me problems. He must have been confused and thought they had put in a Toyota or Honda engine.

Re rental reimbursement - those who have gotten Ford to pay for any days of a rental car are lucky. We had to rent one for two weeks while the "new" engine was being put in and we could finish our vacation. When we asked Ford to reimburse us, they said take a hike.

I can really see from recent posts how this new "program" to ensure satisfied customers is working in everyone's favor but the customer. The dealers have figured out how to make money off of it,and Ford gets to show that their Windstar/Taurus sales have not dipped because of their stupidity. The customer, on the other hand, loses thousands in trade-in value, and still has to drive away in another Ford. Sad,Sad,Sad.

cbinga1

To fordprob95....I decided to let my gut feeling overrule my bank account. I just can't afford to keep that van in the shop. Ford "bought back" my van for $6650. (Yes, I could have waited for it to be fixed and traded it for about $7200....but the new engine is 4wks away...and the concern would still be there. It's not worth it for $550. They also gave me the $3000 "coupon", and with a $1000 rebate on a new 2000 Ford, I just couldn't pass up almost $11000 toward a new car. I haven't had any problems getting my dealership to authorize more than 5 days. I did ask when they told me that a new engine had be ordered, and was told "Don't worry about it...we'll take care of it for you." I am a little upset, however, that the first time it went in, they conveniently forgot to tell me about the loaner program under this "non-recall, recall".

I guess I may be one of the lucky ones (or have wool over my eyes), but I haven't had to pitch the first fit!

One word of caution to those of you taking Ford up on they "buyback" deal. It is NOT shown as a trade-in on your sales contract, therefore, you end up paying sales tax on the total sales price. I'm in an Atlanta suburb, and the tax really hit me hard.

bmaige

I had a 3.8L headgasket in a Mustang blow, and it was repaired at Langdale Ford in Valdosta, Georgia. These vehicles were not covered in the first warranty extension by Ford, but have been covered so recently I haven't even seen it in writing anywhere except on the internet. However, to Langdale Ford's credit, when asked if it were true they said it was, processed the paperwork without me having to do anything, and I already have a check in hand.

My hat is off to a good dealer! It sounds as if there should be more Langdale Fords out there.

marcia56

My Ford dealer had my 95 windstar for 8 days! It was indeed the HG plus timing cover gasket. They started off by telling me that the Timing cover gasket repair would cost me $1,112.27 plus $250 for a new timing cover. Needless to say we started car shopping. I decided to check out the 2000 windstar. Salesman gives me Consumer Focus Fax Form and tells me to make sure that I get my $4000 and come back. I started doing my homework and learned that I was not entitled to the $4000, but the Program CFC 1-800 informed me that I was entitled to the $3000 because I was without out a car for 5 days. Nothing about a blown engine. Hubby and I decide to trade in the 95 get the $3000 towards the 2000 Windstar and just keep it while it is under warranty. Later the Salesman calls and tells me my engine had to Blow up! I tell him he is mistaken and to call the lady I talked to at the program's 1-800. He said he did. I call back and ask for the same person, she tells me no engine needs to blow up, puts me in hold, and comes back and says "I thought you said you engine blew up". I called another Ford dealer, I got conflicting stories there too about the "Program" I have had the car back for 1 day, and after finding this site, I am not very confident about how long it will remain running. Some kind of a bolt broke off during the repair and "another hole had to be tapped" the list of the entire repair goes on and on. At what point is it considered a blown engine? The second dealership I contacted is consulting the zone rep. maybe I can get some satisfaction there. I wish I had found this site earlier, I may not have gotten so frustrated and upset. But 8 days without a car and an active family that I have to mooch rides for drove me crazy.

pjyoung

Ford has offered a $3,000 (or is it $4000) offer plus a buyback. But your engine has to blow to get the offer. If your's hasn't, your resale value has suffered because of the program that was introduced. So, if you have a blown head gasket, Ford will buy back your van for the KBB lowest value plus they will give you 3 or 4 thousand towards the purchase of another Ford.

If your HG hasn't blown, or has blown but the car is running poorly, they will still offer you KBB "lower than dirt" value for your car, but you won't get any assistance from Ford towards the purchase of a new car.

With a plan like that, Honda or Toyota, or GM or Chrysler are suddenly looking a whole lot more attaractive.

indytab

To clarify some aspects of the 95 WS HG warranty: first, you should have received a letter about the extended head gasket warranty for the 95 WS. Look for it in your mail stacks, or call Ford with your VIN # and get a new one and read it carefully. Note that in involves the HEAD GASKET, not the timing chain cover gasket. Also, check out a website put together by a fellow named Chuck Catanese who has dedicated a website to the Ford HG problems. I don't recall the exact url, but you can search for "catanese" and find it easily.

2nd: If your HG failed before 100K miles, Ford will replace it for free. If it failed before the extended warranty was issued and you paid for it out of your own pocket, Ford will either reimburse you for the repair or give you $4K toward a new Ford/Mercury/Lincoln product. If your HG blew and damaged the engine, AND Ford cannot replace the engine within 5 days, you would be eligible for a buyback of about $6500 plus $3K toward a new Ford.

The important facts are as follows: a head gasket problem, when the HG blew in relation to the warranty, did the HG cause permanent engine damage.

We had an HG problem last year, repaired it from our own money. Received the Ford warranty letter in early March. Our "check engine" light had come on about 10 months after the HG repair and was losing small amounts of coolant again. Took it in to dealer and they said it was the timing chain cover gasket. As far as I know there is no warranty on that gasket. Would have cost us about $800 in repair.

We ended up just trading it in and getting a $4K certificate for new Taurus.

If they repaired the HG, they should have done it for free (if your car has less than 100K miles). I don't know if the timing chain cover gasket would be included in this, but it wasn't in my case. If you had the HG repaired within the new extended warranty period and your engine was not damaged, I don't believe you fall in the category for $4K or buyback plus $3K plans.

I would do some further web research (catanese site plus peruse more Edmunds conferences: search under Windstar) and call back Ford's 1-800 number again and be very specific about your situation. I found them to be helpful and accurate if you give them all your detailed information.

marcia56

Thanks for information indytab. HG did blow and I did have the 00m09 letter. Ford did cover timing gasket gasket and cover. Also the broken bolts (which is now a common problem according to another source) I am waiting on 2 dealerships now to try and qualify me for some sort of buy back program. From what I have read, these cars do not stay on the road long after this repair. I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks again.
Marcia56

sharonlpk

I've gotten 2 different answers today regarding my Windstar situation... HG blew at 61000 miles, no engine damage. Covered under the extended warranty I purchased when I initially bought the Windstar, except I pay $50 deductible for the repair. Customer service at Ford today said that since I paid $50 minimum and had a head gasket repair, I am eligible for the $4000 coupon.

I call the dealer...and am told basically that my engine had to blow, etc. I think they are thinking of the other program I had heard about (?), whereby Ford bought blown-engine Windstars plus $$.

I call back Ford. Get another rep. I distinctly ask if my engine has to blow and if I have to trade in vehicle. Am told no.

I will call back dealer tomorrow. Indytab (or others!), what's your opinion of end result? This $4000 would be a pleasant surprise bonus which we sure can use right now...!

Shar in OH

indytab

The fact that you already had an extended warranty may complicate matters.. but then, again, maybe it makes no difference.

Did you specifically tell the Ford rep (1-800 #) that you already had an extended warranty? It would be great if they are offering the $4K certificate even if you only paid $50.

Get back to your dealer and let them know what Ford said. If they still won't budge, try another Ford dealer. Some dealers are honestly confused about the different programs and situations. Some just might not want to handle the paperwork. However, since the $4K is coming from the manufacturer, it presents a great opportunity for them to sell a new vehicle.

My dealer originally told me I had to use the $4K cert. where I applied for it. (You have to apply for the $4K cert. through a Ford dealer; you need to provide original HG repair receipt and letter on HG extended warranty from Ford). After talking to Ford customer service, Ford called the dealer and told them to hand over the certificate to me if I wanted to take it to another dealer. This is important since you may not be able to negotiate as good a deal on a new car if the dealer knows you have this whopping certificate in your pocket.

Assuming you want to trade in your WS, the trade-in is a further complication. The dealer won't offer much on a 95 WS due to the plethora of problems with them, but on a 95 WS, average condition, with between 70 to 90 K miles, you should be able to get $6000 to $7000. Be careful, they may offer you bigger bucks on the trade-in but make it up on higher price of the new car.

If you don't plan to trade in the WS, your deal is simpler. You might also think about getting the certificate and taking it to a Mercury dealer. There was at least one example posted here where someone was treated much better at a Mercury dealer.

I thought about applying my $4K toward a Mercury Villager (has a Nissan engine with better durability reputation), but I didn't really like the other aspects of the Villager and didn't really want another van. In the end, gave the original dealer another chance and got a reasonable trade-in for the WS and a good price on 2000 Taurus.

Above all, try to remain polite, calm, and patient; you'll get better cooperation that way. But, stick with your facts and, if a dealer is not treating you fairly, politely say you will try other dealerships.

Good luck!

bdemas

sharonlpk: I had the same situation as you, I had an extended warranty ($100 ded) that covered our head gaskets when they blew. It makes no difference if you had one or not, if you paid anything towards the fix (the deductible included) you can get the certificate. My dealer was nice enough to call a salesman in to meet with me about how to spend the certificate. The salesman tried to tell me that I had use it with them. I told him I didn't and that I planned to shop around.

I am now trying to determine if there is some way to get the cash out of the certificate. If I can find someone I know well enough that was going to buy a Ford soon, I would offer to give them something towards the purchase if they let me use the certificate to buy the car for them. That way I get my cash and they get a new car costing a little less.

ilovefarming

Just remember folks, that when you call an 800 number, the information you get changes depending upon the person with whom you talk. And the upshot is that Ford will put very little in writing, and what they do put in writing is written by attorneys who are extremely careful.
I am beginning to think that us Windstar victims need to get Michael Moore to go sit with his cameras on Clay Ford's doorstep until he gives some plain English talk so everyone is clear what they really want to give away (which is nothing, in my opinion).
Re timing gasket, I believe that time will confirm what many of us know - that the timing gasket leaks are connected to the head gasket problem, and should be covered totally, for every single one that was repaired.
Let the class action suits go forward!