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Comments
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100331/NEWYORK/100339960
That's correct, and anything that can be redefined, can be re-redefined. I know your memory is long enough to remember how the Lexus was maligned. When you cite history, no fair being be selective. It will be interesting when the details come out on Hyundai's enhanced service program for the Equus. I probably won't be impressed, because how often would I even use it?
I love the angry-Pokemon face of that hybrid, hilarious. It's like Euro Ford meets anime.
Do the fanboys only whine when H is questioned? Is curiousity automatically "mistrust" because one does not bow down for South Korean automotive prowess?
I don't recall the Lexus being maligned at least after the first LS hit the roads on this continent. It must have been the cover story on every new car magazine.
How about Hyundai Funboys?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I'm not meaning to be hateful, just brash. Kind of like an Equus hood ornament or a blingy Sonata front end :P
I am glad you find the new Sonata so attractive, as has the professional automotive press. At the rate they are being snapped up, it appears the buying public finds them quite fetching also.
And as we've already found out, the hood ornament of the Equus is not coming to the U.S. But since your focus is on the past, I can see why you would continue to bring it up.
As for reports from real-world drivers on a car that won't hit the U.S. for six months or more... why would you expect to find that kind of report for ANY car? For example, when the 2008 Accord debuted in the fall of 2007, did we see any "real world driving" reports on the car the spring before? No. In fact, we didn't see ANY details on the car until right before its launch. Maybe you can post a few links to real-world driving reports on the new E Class, from at least six months before it went on sale, just to demonstrate that at least some automakers publish that kind of info.
Now that you mention it, Hyundai does seem to have a better overall reputation than Kia. Kia still means cheap to more people than Hyundai I think.
And the front ends. Maybe Hyundai is taking design cues from Kia, who have that former Audi design guy doing their "tiger faces"?
Sonata is nice enough from the sides and rear, and angles...but the front doesn't warm me up. However, as the odds of me buying one are pretty low, it doesn't matter.
Has H made a press release about that hood ornament, or is it just auto show babble?
When is the more powerful turbo 4 even due in the Sonata? Preproduction versions of cars are often driven and reported eons before they are introduced, and they are usually very close to the finished product. There have been some pretty impressive claims about this engine in the Sonata, and I would like to see it happen...but do we know if it has even been mated to the car yet? How can you remember media coverage on an Accord from 3 years ago? When was the exact "first drive" on that car then?
Maybe you can mellow out and not act like I am spitting on your mother and kicking your dog at the same time :P
I have a feeling you are the only person on Earth who thinks that defunct hood ornament would warrant a press release. Hyundai did release an official photo of the Equus sans hood ornament--not good enough for you, I guess.
I think you have answered all of your other questions about the Sonata and its turbo engine with this statement:
However, as the odds of me buying one are pretty low, it doesn't matter.
Yes, indeed. It really doesn't matter, does it? You have no real interest in the Sonata's turbo engine. You are just trying desperately to find something, no matter how inconsequential or ridiculous, to kick Hyundai about. The Equus hood ornament has gone bye-bye, so you have to find something else to remind yourself why you hate Hyundai so much. So why not question whether Hyundai really does have a turbo 4 coming in the Sonata this fall? Maybe those Hyundai execs on stage at the New York Auto Show were lying! You never know, they would probably lie about anything, wouldn't they, just because they represent Hyundai. And maybe Hyundai hasn't even put that engine into a Sonata yet, just a few months before the Alabama plant is readied to produce the car for North America. Yep, Hyundai just made up the fuel economy figures they published for the turbo Sonata--they didn't actually test the engine in a real car. They don't even know how it will work yet... they just thought they'd announce the car to the world, with full specs, then go figure it out.
You really are beyond belief. I am perfectly mellow... and I have a really good memory. I also have a pretty good b.s. meter. It's pegged right now. Time to ring up Scotty.
You really are beyond belief. I am perfectly mellow... and I have a really good memory. I also have a pretty good b.s. meter. It's pegged right now. Time to ring up Scotty.
It's the above that cracks me up. fintail is going to himself "You did your job!" :shades: This little battle, even though entertaining, is still managing to be educational. Because one can still learn how Hyundai is basically trouncing most all of the rest of the automotive world right now.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I'd like to see that more powerful turbo be reality, and be applied to a manual application. A properly refined manual Sonata with that engine would be something, and might get H to develop some fun-to-drive cars, which is what I would like to see (other than invisible "tuned" cars that never seem to show themselves :shades: )
What am I ridiculing in regards to that engine? If I want to ridicule, I can find plenty in the styling of the Equus or the overdone bling of the Sonata front end. But I'm not doing that, I am asking about an engine that as of now is a very rare type on this continent.
So, nothing other than press releases about that engine existing in a car? As I am sure a computer simulation couldn't estimate mileage and performance.
People who are mellow don't get "pegged" in any way. :P
Don't forget Captain thinks the same way.
Even if Hyundai bought out MB and BMW in Captain's mind Hyundai would still not be considered a luxury brand.
Energize.
Where's that tuned car again?
So feel free to post those links for the real-world driving experiences of the 2010 E Class from 6 months or more before its debut.
Why is a comparison to a random German car even relevant to the Korean car? H and MB don't even unveil cars in the same pattern. 6 months before its debut? Is there even a solid introduction date set for the new engine?
Feel free to drop red herrings where you please, and declare victory on the slightest whim with nothing to back it up. It's amusing :P
Tuned car, where are you?
Oh, so now I see you have accepted that the turbo 4 in the Sonata is over 270 hp, as Hyundai's execs have claimed. And it didn't even take a real-world driving report for you to acknowledge that. Good start.
When you are ready to demand the same info (e.g. real-world driving reports on cars that are months from introduction) from other automakers as you demand from Hyundai, then you'll demonstrate you have some shred of fairness in your position.
FWIW, I think there's specialists who can help with memory loss.
That subjective opinion of fairness is duly noted, but it doesn't impact me. Not to mention...the world isn't fair. There are no other upcoming products like this for me to observe, nothing with the potential to be such a significant shift from the respective automaker's previous products.
Maybe I need my vision checked so I can find invisible links :P
Would "any real world data" perhaps include data on horsepower ratings?
Now, I am sure MB must have something up their sleeve worth your attention. Nothing innovative coming from them in the near future? Maybe if you ask them, they would send you the real-world driving reports on these upcoming vehicles.
Actually, it appears you need to have your vision checked to see the VISIBLE links that are posted in this discussion. After the memory check-up.
Nope, I am not frothing at the mouth over anything upcoming from MB. I am sure there are some upcoming innovations as there has been constantly since before H was a twinkle in its mother's eye, but I'm not obsessing over it as I don't expect any quantum leaps.
If the link is so visible it should be easy to repost. That is, if it happened.
thank you for rtying to put words in my mouth - but if you would wish instead to rephrase that as a question then:
As I have said a number of times Hyundai could go out and buy up every Benz, Bmw and/or Lexus product and still not sell true luxury cars IF we also assume they choose to market those products as 'Hyundais", and sell them at the same dealers that cater to the same mass market.
What I can't seem to get through to you folks is that THIS HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH THE CARS AND EVERYTHING ABOUT THE BRANDNAME. Hyundai is not currently a luxury brand and nor will it ever be as long as they sell those high volume (and much cheaper) vehicles that they do. Even the current Gen sedan which arguably has enough bling and other physical attributes to meet the standard of what a luxurious car needs to be, ultimately can not be one simply because of what it is sold as, what it is sold with, and,of course, where it is sold.
I will even go so far to opin that even the more expensive and even blingier Equus will fail as a 'luxury' car just like the Phaeton did not too long ago- a perfectly decent attempt that is not accepted as a luxury car simply because of its brandname.
If it makes you feel any better - Toyota can only make 'luxury' cars called Lexuses, sold at places generally unique to that brand, and usually not amongst those cheapo Yaris' etc. that they sell as 'Toyotas. Hyundai's in exactly the same situation, without any established and unique Genesis brand (or Gen dealer) - which is most of the problem.
Neither is Mercedes then. I don't care how many S Class cars they make, any company that sells Smart cars, taxis, Sprinters and buses isn't a luxury brand.
I think it's called "snarky".
must be a version of the English language you share with backy -he thinks Mini is the same as BMW.
I'm all ears - why don't YOU tell me exactly how Hyundai is 'trouncing' anything - a brand that didn't even make the top 10 in JDP's recent dependability ratings.
Toyota/Lexus was there, Honda/Acura , of course, was there, Ford brands made 3 appearances, but, what, no Hyundai?????
For as easily 'influenced' as I think of JDP is - you would have thought that Hyundai would have written a check in that direction - just to confirm all this 'trouncing' of yours.
And yeah, I used to bug my Volvo driving friend about his Ford. Rolls are made by BMW too (and there was even a Rolls Royce MINI, lol). VW got Bentley.
Let's take a favorite of mine - Hershey Bars. A consumer brand. Now, the chocolate snobs who think they should only eat luxury dark cocoa stick to their Sharffen-Berger - after all, even Julia Child said it was the best chocolate in the US.
And guess who owns Sharffen-Berger? Yep, Hershey.
I think it's more logical to say that some manufacturers make luxury items in an attempt to broaden their pool of potential buyers as much as possible. Some create new brands in the company to try to differentiate the brand from the parent company.
Maybe some outfit like Tiffany could be considered a luxury brand (but for all I know, maybe they cheap out and sell $12 pot metal MB key chains).
And you were talking about someone else putting words into YOUR mouth? LOL.
What I have mentioned before is that my local BMW dealer sells Minis and BMWs in the same building, literally right next to each other. Which blows your assertion that Hyundai can't successfully sell Accents and Elantras in the same dealership as Genesis sedans right out of the water.
Lindt chocolate is pretty affordable and has good quality, I prefer it. The Swiss domestic Co-op brand also gets high marks at a low price. But I digress....
Luxury is subjective...many people would find a leather lined navi Corolla to be luxurious. Brand rep is the real story.
Even if you earn your rep, maintaining the brand rep is full of pitfalls too (Toyota, Jaguar, Land Rover, New Coke, Eddie Bauer....).
The other side says yes there is room for Hyundai in the luxury market but it will continue to take time, marketing and continued improvement ot the brand.
The Genesis has been an admiral start and soon will be join by the Equus which will be watched even more.
Strike that, I meant to type Nissan. Oops, I mean Daimler/Renault. Can't wait to see Fintail one of these years and ask how his Le Car is putting along. :shades:
Daimler, Nissan, Renault Partner for Economics, Product Sharing (AutoObserver)
Next thing you know, Hyundai will buy part of Kia. Talk about diluting the brand, eh?
YUP....they should stick to where they belong ....the 0-$20,000 range :lemon:
and /agree with Fintails nitpicks on the equus/sonata
You Hyundai fools need to get in and out of your Sonata's backseats a few times to knock some sense into yourselves :P
and whats the deal with Korean designed rims.....all Korean rims make me wanna gouge out my own eyes
But I do appreciate it when posters' brains are engaged in Town Hall, vs. just glands.
"This thing" is only a 274hp 4cyl engine. Hardly a great acheivement, pretty ho-hum actually. The only things about it that impress me are that it uses regular gas and has a 10 year warranty.
The only fools I see are those who bash Hyundai, because they haven't got a clue.