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Comments
Just last week, there was a comparison test on MotorWeek between the Camaro and the Genesis coupe. The Camaro coupe won because of its superior suspension when compared to the Genesis coupe, even though the Genesis was considerably quicker.
Here is what they said...
The Genesis also benefits from a well-planted chassis. It delivers great grip, but also a harsh ride. Still, while both sport coupes are nimble, the much lighter Genesis feels more the part
They also wrote:
it did best the Camaro in acceleration and handling
More planted, more grip, more nimble, best handling, and all you take out of that entire review is the harsh ride part? :confuse:
Biased, much?
They made it pretty clear why they like the Camaro better:
if you want a great looking car that also relives Detroit's glory days, the Camaro is a powerful magnet. And, since these cars are much about their appeal to all of our senses, that's we way we'd go too.
Let's go back to what you said originally - "Camaro coupe won because of its superior suspension".
That is very clearly not true. Superior ride, that's it, but a suspension includes ride and handling, not just ride.
"You win the award for misquote of the century." :sick: Oh really?
Kindly show me and please quote what I supposedly misquoted.
All I posted were direct quotes from the MotorWeek site.
A so called Sports Car does not need to ride harshly.
"It delivers great grip, but also a harsh ride."
My point is, Hyundai is lacking in their engineering for many of their products when it
comes to suspensions, with the worst examples being found in many Azeras. :lemon:
They actually said it was more planted, had more grip, felt more nimble, and despite a harsh ride was the best handling.
I'm sure John Davis would feel misrepresented.
From your post, and I quote:
"They also wrote: it did best the Camaro in acceleration and handling"
But not the ride. That's what I am talking about.
Were I in the market for a V6 so-called Sports Car, I would certainly choose the Camaro,
and I think that most people will do likewise also mainly because
of Chevies proven record and its superior ride.
BTW, what do you drive? :confuse: (This'll be good!)
ateixeira doesn't even own nor probably has never even driven any Hyundais.
They chose the Camaro despite the fact that it was less planted, felt less nimble, had less grip, and lost in overall handling. All those things are characteristics of the suspension.
In their conclusion the styling and attention the Camaro garnered was the main reason it won. The softer ride is mentioned but wasn't enough to earn the better handling label that they still gave to the Genesis coupe.
Earlier you said suspension, now you've changed it to ride only, which is just one small aspect of a good suspension. My Sienna rides beautifully but that does not mean I'd conclude the suspension is better than my Miata, which rides stiffly. Each has a distinct audience.
You'd think a sport coupe would give priority to handling, like my Miata. Do you really want a floaty, isolated ride in a sport coupe?
The Hyundai, overall, was better at 3 other aspects (planted feel, grip levels, and nimbleness) and had the better overall suspension in Motorweek's view.
I guess it comes down to personal preference...you either like a firm ride or you don't !
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Maybe Hyundai is revising the suspension tuning on the Genesis sedan because they found out that enough people don't like the original suspension tuning, so they figure it should be changed. Do you talk about a car having a "problem" each time the manufacturer makes a running change to it? For example, when Lexus upped the V6 on the ES to 3.5L, did you talk about the "problem" with the Lexus V6?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32637610/ns/business-washington_post/
BTW, this topic is whether or not Hyundai is ready for the luxury (prestige) market, not Lexus. Nor is it about other car companies.
Also, Hyundai replaced shocks on Azeras at great cost. And they revised the suspension.
Replying to 2864. There is no doubt that Hyundai sales are increasing and that is a good thing. However, according to a Wall Street Journal article, 51% of cash for clunkers sales went to Toyota, Honda and Nissan and 39% to Detroit Three. That left only 10% for everybody else, including Hyundai.
It will be interesting to see how everything falls out in 2011 and 2012 for all companies selling cars in US. Hope we are all here to see it.
What is interesting though, is that when our erstwhile government decides to subsidize things, the same buyers are seemingly going back to the established brands. The bad rap that the Korean cars have apparently still out there.
Does Hyundai still got homeworks to do? Definitely yes. Is Hyundai doing it's homework? Yes.
During the crisis, probably the manufacturer in best shape was Subaru, with sales that didn't really drop at all, but I believe Hyundai was 2nd.
They are well poised, in a good position for the rebound, when it does eventually come.
I've read some of them. None said the suspension is a "problem."
As for mentioning Lexus, that was in response to your bringing Lexus, MB, Audi etc. into the conversation. The best way to stay on topic is to do so yourself.
I mentioned the other cars for comparison purposes to Hyundai earlier, whereas you seemed to mention Lexus solely to distract people from the message.
My post provided additional information to an earlier post re: car sales.
That's nit-picking to the extreme. No suspension is perfect, they either ride stiffly or aren't as sporty as they could be.
I could say that about any car on the market.
Here is an example. I will use a Hyundai so you don't jump all over me again for mentioning another brand (which you like to do with frequency). The Hyundai Accent has the worst overall IIHS crash test scores of ANY car sold in the US--at least the last time I checked, several weeks ago, that was true. Some might say that is a "problem." I think it sucks, personally, and is inexcusable. But it's not a problem of the car. The car is acting as designed. The "problem," as it is, is with the executives at Hyundai who decided to sell a car that is designed that way, when it's possible (cf. Versa, Yaris) to design a small, inexpensive car that has much better crash protection. Maybe you would say the same thing regarding the suspension of the Genesis. Now take another example: in early Gen 3 Elantras, there was a recall for the driver's front airbag. It did not deploy correctly due to a problem in the airbag sensors. The problem was corrected. The car then acted as designed.
the door handles appear to be about 10' long. The only car I can think of that was as ridiculous looking were the first iterations of the bangle butt 7s. A bad attempt at product differentiation IMO unless of course you liked all those plastic clad Pontaics of yesteryear
They managed to do what the Accord tried to do, from the side, only they succeeded.
It looks much richer than the current Sonata, which I always felt was sort of bland.
Hyundai's styling is very inconsistent:
* the Accent is, eh, for its class not too bad, the sporty concept looked better
* the Elantra is OK, but a bit bulbous
* the current Sonata is too anonymous, this new one much better
* the Azera I like, swoopy and the first hint that they were trying harder
* the Genesis is very safe but handsome enough
* the Equus is just plain ugly
Even the SUVs are a mismatch.
* Tucson is a bit piece-meal, with some odd parts
* Santa Fe is handsome, probably their best looking truck
* Veracruz should have gone further, also anonymous
Recent efforts (Kia Forte, new Sonata) do seem to be better, though.
Take a look at the new coming-soon Tucson and see what you think...
http://www.hyundai-blog.com/index.php/2009/08/25/officially-official-next-hyunda- i-tucson/
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/08/2010-hyundai-ix35-tucson-comprehensive.html-
:shades:
Like I said before, like it or not, at least they're trying.
To me, at least:
Accent, Elantra, Sonata - Bland bombs
Tucson, Veracruz - Ugly
Azera - Ok
Genesis - 50% bland, 50% classy
Equus - Yuck
Santa Fe - Good looking (fix the interior material please)
Genesis Coupe - Now that's cool
Upcoming Sonata - Not bad, but I'll wait for more pics to decide
i20/i10 - They should bring this to the market ASAP
Kia Forte - Nice
Spectra - Not bad
The rest of Kia lineup - Either 10000% bland or darn ugly
Agree about the SF's interior. If it matched the Veracruz' interior that would be great, but it really doesn't.
Finished third well behind the Ford and the Chevy and probably at least in part to the limitations of the V6, it was also the slowest by a substantial margin. As per donna388s comments, CR had a lot to say about bad ride characteristics, but conversely lauded its handling. It is no trick to tighten down a car's suspension to the point that it can handle like a go kart, it requires so much more to be able to provide that same level of handling while not adversely effecting ride. Apparently GM and Ford are capable of doing a better job at this - at least right now.
This is unfortunately where the Coupe is destined to compete - against those decidedly pedestrain (from a lux standpoint) D3 entrants. Had Hyundai really had any intention to position the car as any sort of luxury entry they certainly would've upgraded the interior, added some more bling , and priced it a bit higher so that the more logical market for the car would be the G37/3 series/A4 buyers. The Coupe - as a Genesis - would seemingly hurt the brand image - not help it.
http://www.hyundai-blog.com/index.php/2009/08/21/new-hyundai-sonata-sedan-fully-- undisguised/
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Darn pretty car!
What's the Asian fixation with gigantic light clusters?
"So far, there are two camps: the Genesis detractors who decry the ride qualtiy and feel it;s cheap and those who don't like the ride quality, but are amazed by how upscale the Genesis feels." Mike Gillies
Good news is they plan to keep it 100,000 miles which will give it a good long test. Too bad they cannot do one with the 3.8 as that will be the vast majority of sales.
I have seen reports that state that the 3.8 does ride better than the 4.6 and the 17" wheels on the base may ride best of all.
Obviously. The same can be said of every car style. A good stylist's WANT some of their styling cues to look a little bit familiar. That's styling 101. If a car had no familiar styling cues, it would be considered "radical" or "alien". Believe me, that doesn't sell.
That's styling 102 :P
What was the avoidance manuever speed for each of those 4? My CR is at home and not in front of me.
You can trade off a bit of ride to obtain better handling, and I think that's appropriate in the sportiest coupe you sell. The 2.0l turbo coupe probably has smaller wheels with more tire sidewall and a bit more compliance.
I agree 100% with your last paragraph.
As it stands, it may compete for best "Secretary's Car", i.e. the lesser, V6 models of those D3. In that segment, ride probably matters more than handling.
Though it is lighter than those, so performance falls between the V6 and V8 D3.
I really like the styling of the new Camaro, but buying it in a V6 just seems sacreligious to me. If I wanted one, I'd get the V8, not the poseur model that LOOKS like the V8. That's just me.
If I could not afford a V8, I'd buy a used V8, not a new V6.
Having said that, I would not shop in that segment at all, as I prefer light and efficient. A tuned 2.0 turbo Genesis coupe would be more appealing to me.
The interior also looks nice, reminds me of the Veracruz.
Many great cars which have become very popular were seen as radical when new. The sad thing is in 2009, everyone is scared of any kind of change, and design schools churn out robots who fill this artificial demand. It requires less thought, less time, less money, to copy something else.
A car can be "safe" design-wise and not ape what others did a couple years ago.
It definitely pushes the envelope for a mainstream sedan. Look how sharp those creases are, and check out the angle of the C-pillar, very fastback.
I think they took major risks, and IMHO it paid off.
That image is also photoshopped or otherwise retouched, especially at the peak of the A-pillar.
Whyu don't they remove the grille and just have one gigantic light assembly in the front?
There's no doubt the designers were inspired by the sleek Benz CLS, but that's not a bad thing.
The Sonata has very pronounced creases on the hood and sides, though, that give it a totally different character.
The one thing that does look similar is the greenhouse, specifically the side glass and C-pillar.
But looks at the details and I say there's no way that's copy-cat.
Indeed, it's not a bad thing for the Sonata to be aping such a sleek vehicle, but I am simply honest about the design genetics. The semi-Mazda hood and some character lines on the sides which may or may not exist on the actual car don't hide this.
The Mazda6 tried to mimick that style and didn't quite make it. I just think Hyundai nailed it.
Sleek? Yes. But true, the gigantic front lights aren't nice even the slightest bit.... there are some odd proportion elements too...
Styling 101? How about styling 201: make a car distinctive enough yet still good enough to sell in large numbers (look at Nissan and Infiniti)
Some models, sure, but let's remember the Hyundai Genesis is cleaning the Infiniti M's clock. TKO in the first round.
I hope the car that makes it to the States looks more like this photoshopped version with a smaller, Genesis-like grille than with the bigger grille in the official photos.
The way it is with Hyundai, they will be accused of copying someone no matter what they do. If they made the new Sonata more boxy, they would be accused of copying the CTS. If sleek, then it's copied from whichever one of the sleeker cars on the market comes to mind. There are only so many ways to pen a 4-door sedan. Hyundai went the sleek, fastback route with the 2011 Sonata, and I think it turned out well, but it will invariably be reminicent of other sedans that went the same styling path, ala Mazda6 and VW CC, also Audi and MB.
Well said.