Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

toye

I also had a 06 Azera put on 53,000 miles on and was extremely happy with the driving, comfort. The ride suffered at the end because I needed to put on new tires. I did the 5 tire rotation every 5000 miles was surprised to go as long as I did. During my 3 years with the Azera the AC compresser went out, rear shade motor died (a problem with other Azera's). Instead of buying new tires I took the chance and bought the Genesis and couldn't be happier.

backy

The posts are generally too new and many people use them to confirm their purchase decision was a good one.

Are you saying the people who drive their car every day spend less time in them compared to the editors of an automotive magazine who drive the car for, say, a day or two?

If you take the time to read the 165 owner reports here, you'll see most of them mention things about the Genesis they would like to see corrected. A few lament their decision to buy the car. Others can't find anything they would change.

I think it is just as likely, if not more likely, that someone posts a review in an open forum like this because they want to vent about what they don't like with their car as it is that they want to tell the world about how much they love their car. Note that you personally reflect that tendency. You did report that you liked your Azera initially. Then you posted your negative experiences with it. There is nothing to stop people from posting updates in the owner reviews forum, and if you look there you'll see that is what some owners have done. They found Edmunds.com pretty easily when they liked their car; why wouldn't they want to tell the world how much they now hate the lousy ride of their car after living with it for a longer time--if that indeed were the case?

Why is it so hard to understand that many people who bought a Genesis sedan actually like the car, including its ride? If they didn't like the ride, they probably would not have bought the car in the first place. Maybe the 5% of reviewers who really hate the way the car rides just didn't do their homework and take the car out on the road enough before they bought it.

paradigmexp

I was also one of the owners who wrote a review on Edmunds.com. I found nothing wrong with the suspension of the car.

On the other hand, I do have to question what agenda or intention carolinabob carries, when he continues to come to Hyundai boards to criticise the brand equity relative to other more accepted Car manufacturers. I did remember Carolinabob say that he was going to leave the Hyundai board. Obviously this is not a man of his words. I would take his words with a grain of salt. I think he works for another car manufacturer. He may even be jealous that Hyundai is doing so well in this economy, unlike GM, Chrysler, or even Ford.

stever

Take all this except the relevant Azera posts there

I didn't even realize that the Azera was in the category listing. But the topic is Hyundai and how they will make inroads into the luxury market. It's not about any single model or style they make.

And the discussion is not about other members either.

m4d_cow

I've only driven it in 2 occasions: a one week trip to Canada (a total of around 600 miles) and a 3 day business trip abroad. Since it'll be unfair to include foreign market Azera in this place I'll just state what I experienced with the former. The suspension wasn't harsh per se, but it can get jittery at times and smoother at another, in other words, inconsistent. I didn't feel it the first 100 miles or so, but after that it started to get annoying.
I experienced the same thing with some other Hyundai models, but not with Genesis and Equus. Like I said earlier, Hyundai's doing well, no doubt, but there's still homework to be done. Now if we all just flame all critics calling them unfair we'll never see the truth.

carolinabob

I said I was going to leave it for a while. Also, I'm the kind of guy that if you attack me personally, I defend myself. Friends told me I was being beat up pretty bad on CarSpace. Another reason for my renewed posting is that I have come across information (professional reviews) that was not being posted. In fairness to those who are considering Hyundai, I thought it should be posted.
Unlike the ones that attack me, I post the source. They never do or even say the source is wrong-they just ignore the truth. Won't re-post, but there are about 15 websites or magazines that cited issues with Azera, Genesis and now Equus. Much more serious than they just did not like it.
I have never worked in the automobile industry in any capacity nor do I favor one manufacturer over another. They all have their pros and cons.
Of the 20 or so cars I have owned in the past 20 years (sometimes three at a time), only one was American.
As I have said before, I am happy that Hyundai is doing so well, but it is not perfect and they know it even if you don't. IF you own a Hyundai take it to Carmax and get it appraised. Don't just use the internet appraisals.
Most reviews are made within one month of purchase and very, very few people go back at 5,000 miles and so on-that's when disappoinment sets in.
I am glad that most people are happy with their Genesis' and Azeras, but those trying to make a decision need to know all the facts, not just some people's opinions. I report only proven facts!
If I didn't have confidence in Hyundai, why did I buy an Azera to start with? Could have afforded cars costing much more, but liked the design, size and features of the Azera. Originally the car drove like a dream and I said so. However, all three sets of shocks deteriorated within 1,000 miles. Hyundai paid for all of them. BTW, I test drove four different ones for at least one hour each and the one I bought for 50 milesbefore purchasing. :shades:

ateixeira

The whole "glass half empty" point of view you reqeat often gets a bit old.

I can understand that you are a bit disappointed in the ride quality of your Azera, but in the past you have implied the same applies to all Hyundais, even RWD and unrelated platforms, and that's quite a stretch.

You read reviews now and you are looking for bad comments about the ride, that's called slanted reporting. I wonder, seriously, if you read a positive review about a Hyundai, that mentioned nothing bad about the ride quality, if you would choose to share it with us. My guess is you would keep quiet, bury it.

Not you, but someone else in this thread has been cherry-picking bad parts of reviews here and making the overall review seem negative, when it's not. Case in point: Motorweek and Consumer Reports. I've been very specific about how those were misleading so no need to repeat it here.

Autoweek has yet another positive review, great. That's the main focus here, not a nit-pick about the ride, but rather the overall conclusion Autoweek had - favorable. I'll give you credit, actually, because that is not something the other person would have done.

But then you go right back to your old routine:

that's when disappoinment sets in

Really? Is that a fact, as you say? Or your opinion, and a minority opinion, at that. What is your source for that?

Also, you're using subjective opinions about ride and calling it a "problem". Again that's not really a fact, just an opinion, or even opinion about an opinion, if you think about it.

donna388

"Really? Is that a fact, as you say? Or your opinion, and a minority opinion, at that.
What is your source for that?"

I my case, that is indeed a fact, and not just my opinion.

I too have the same problem, and mine at this time is being litagated. :lemon:
I do in fact have a "problem" and the "automotive expert" employed
by the Lemon Law firm says I do have a problem!

Unlike you, I do own a Hyundai and I do know what I am talking about.

In fact, this is the only problem my Azera has. If it were not for this one problem, I would be extremely happy with this car. But the lack of proper control of the suspension because of these lousy shocks that start to
fail shortly after they are first installed is the problem, and I fully intend to let others know about this.

Because you do not own one of these vehicles and most likely have never ridden in one makes you qualified to comment to those of us who do own and drive these cars and do know what we are talking about? :sick:

I don't think so!

ateixeira

I do know what I am talking about

After the misleading conclusions from the Motorweek and Consumer Reports articles? LOL

I don't doubt that you have bad shocks, by the way, just that every Hyundai (including models you don't own) has the same problem.

Good luck with your pending case.

ateixeira

Both you and Bob have stated you have otherwise excellent cars, so why not just slap some Monroe shocks on there and be happy?

Then sue Hyundai for the cost.

Both of you seem hell-bent on a smear campaign and have invested far more time and effort than seems prudent.

captain2

I can understand that you are a bit disappointed in the ride quality of your Azera, but in the past you have implied the same applies to all Hyundais, even RWD and unrelated platforms, and that's quite a stretch.
Not so sure it's too much of a 'stretch', Hyundais at pretty much all levels noted more for a softer ride than a tighter 'sportier' one. Much like Toyota, who I guess Hyundai is doing their best to emulate. One of the things that actually surprised me a few years back, when shopping the Azera, was that 'wow' here is a car even softer and more boulvevardish then my Avalon. Now that's soft :surprise: - but also in line with general American driving preferences.
A defect in the Azera? - not likely though - simply in line with what Hyundai thinks Americans will buy. "Working as designed' perhaps a phrase heard too often, but in this case probably true.
The Genesis, however, a bit of a different story apparently, as they now try to tighten things up as a 'sports sedan' should, but ultimately fail in providing soft and controlled at the same time; something very difficult to do. That said, it is also likely that sooner or later they will get the balance right simply because they do have some examples out there to show them how and the suspension itself does have the right pieces to someday make it work.

ateixeira

Hyundais at pretty much all levels noted more for a softer ride than a tighter 'sportier' one

Perhaps, but that's not what the two of them are saying.

What I keep hearing, again and again, is that their shocks are all bad, or eventually will go bad (ALL of them), and them seemingly insist that this is a problem with ALL Hyundais, even RWD ones with completely different suspensions.

For starters, I'm sure they have more than one shock supplier.

Also, the Genesis is tuned in just the opposite manner - towards the sportier side. So even the tuning isn't the same across the board. You just can't generalize like that.

I don't think the Genesis was aiming for sports sedan. The ambience says luxury to me, not sport.

The Genesis coupe did go for sporty, but that's a different animal.

carolinabob

I am not a reporter and never said I was. I merely relay PERTINENT INFORMATION from professional reviews and articles and cite the source so that those interested in the entire story can read them. Actually, that is the way professionals do it - learned this my first year in college.
This forum is way to constrained to regurgitate entire articles just to satisfy you and a few others.
By the way, you STILL HAVE NOT SAID THE ARTICLES WERE WRONG!
CR ranked Hyundai about mid-pack as a manufacturer and two main "cons" were resale value and suspensions.
I am not saying their shocks are bad, only that they have issues/problems with their suspensions. Hopefully they will address them and all this will go away.
BRW, while I and a few others may say too much for you on this topic, you and your associates don't say anything. You either attack people for sharing or you bltather away about how great Hyundai, Genesis, Azera, Equus, et. al. are in YOUR OPINIONS. :shades:

captain2

the Genesis is tuned in just the opposite manner - towards the sportier side. So even the tuning isn't the same across the board. You just can't generalize like that
Isn't that exactly what I did say "... The Genesis, however, a different story..." :confuse:
Hyundai's products (other than those that are pretending to be a poor man's BMW) are tuned very much like the Toyota products that they would like to compete with. The Genesis, as I noted, tries its best to have us believe it is some sort bargain basement 5 series, E series, or whatever; and does fall short in more ways than just price. As it should.
IMO Hyundai is better off trying to repair its image by building better Elantras and Sonatas to compete with those Corollas/Civics/Camcords etc. It should be easier to do, and also easier for the car buying public to accept - its been done before, and a lot easier pill to swallow!

LASHAWN

I just have to say that just about everyone on this forum with an opinion of how a car's ride and handling should be just cracks me up. Nobody on here is an expert and need not try to be. Hyundai, MB, BMW, Lexus etc. engineers designed their vehicles to behave a certain way, love it or hate it. Those of you that traded a Lexus thinking it will ride like your new BMW, your wrong. Those of you that bought the Genesis thinking it will ride like your MB you traded in, your wrong. As we all know, no two cars ride the same, no if's and's or but's about it. Car suspensions are like people, they may have the same make-up but operate differently. Everyone has their opinions about these car's ride and handling and that's all they are, opinions nothing more nothing less. No one should take to heart what someone else is experiencing with their car because they may never experience the same concerns. Case in point. I own a 06 Sonata LX with 62k miles on it. I've read where customers were complaining about suspension noises, premature brake wear and all other types of things. I've never had a problem with my car. None of these issues was a deciding factor when I purchased my car.

I worked at a Saturn, VW, and Toyota dealerships as a Service Consultant and a few customers ask me why I bought a Hyundai. I politely said because my car will never be in the shop as long as your car and the maintenance is very inexpensive. I told one customer that you only owned your car for 60 days and already it's been in here on 6 different occassions for warranty repair, mine has been in only twice in a 3yr span.

backy

Why should anyone bother to post anything here that is counter to your opinion? When we do that, it is simply dismissed... even if it's the opinions of over 150 actual Genesis owners. You seem to favor the opinions of automotive journalists who go out and drive a car for a few hours, maybe a day or two (with some exceptions such as CR). Then you ask us why we have still not said that these opinions are "wrong." They are opinions, not facts--how can they be WRONG? :confuse: You can agree or disagree with an opinion. But since it's not fact, it is incorrect to call an opinion "right" or "wrong".

So in that vein, here is C/D's take on the Genesis 3.8:

Highs and Lows:
Highs: Great ride, roomy interior, stitched leather on the dash.
Lows: Feels underpowered at full throttle, IRS won’t believe your claimed income.

(Emphasis mine on "great ride".)
Here is the full review, so everyone can read all the details if they are so inclined:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q1/2009_hyundai_genesis_3.8-short_take- - _road_test

P.S. Keep in mind that CR's overall ranking of Hyundai includes Kia. It is well known that Kia has one of the poorest resale value histories in the industry. But since resale value of most luxury cars stinks, what is the relevance of that point to this discussion?

backy

The Genesis doesn’t drive as you’d suppose. With Hyundai’s (probably self-perpetuated) reputation of knocking-off Toyotas (so to speak), I was expecting nothing short of a cushy, neo-Cadillac ride. But it’s not. Isolating, yes, and extremely quiet. But the Genesis’ suspension is more Germanic sportster than Japanese recliner. Steering feedback, brisk handling and tight turning capabilities combine to make this a surprisingly sharp drive.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/hyundai-genesis-38-v6/

backy

Suspension is both firm and compliant enough to fit the Genesis’ image as a sophisticated, luxury ride. Suspension design is fully independent, of course, featuring an unusual 5-link system with gas shocks, coil springs and anti-roll bars front and rear. It feels tight and under control at all times and is continuously adjusted electronically to match driving conditions. The power rack-and-pinion steering is still belt driven off the engine and has just enough resistance and feedback to please most discriminating drivers while brake pedal effort is a tad high. The Genesis V8 has an electro-hydraulic power steering unit.

http://hyundaibuyersguide.theautochannel.com/news/2009/03/11/453071.html

backy

On the sedan:
It was put to the test from driving on the rather ragged roads of Michigan from home to the store, to the airport, to shopping centers, parallel parking, parking in a garage, giving it to a valet at a restaurant, loading up the trunk with tennis racquets and balls, then filling with Costco goodies, giving friends a ride to dinner and other events.

So how did it do? Again it was remarkable! The Genesis I drove was up to the demands of slow traffic roads to the autobahn expressways of Detroit, where going under 60 is considered slow and cautious, and every other situation as well.


Full reviews of sedan and coupe:
http://hyundaibuyersguide.theautochannel.com/news/2009/06/30/467754.html

backy

Hyundai calls the Genesis a sport sedan, but despite sharing the platform with the Genesis coupe, we can’t quite agree with Hyundai. The Genesis sedan checks in on the soft ride side of the chart, trading off the crisp cornering of a BMW for the supple, more Lexus, behavior.

http://www.examiner.com/x-572-Auto-Review-Examiner~y2009m7d17-Road-Test-2009-Hyu- ndai-Genesis-38-car-review-It-dont-need-no-badges

P.S. I like the subtitle of the review: "It don't need no badges"

backy

Photographer Julia LaPalme took the Genesis on a trip to San Francisco and came away appreciating the seats ("Seats are comfortable and cushy. What a plush way to drive 800 miles on a weekend."), the ride ("The suspension absorbs enough of the road imperfections for comfort, but leaves enough feel to remind me I'm still driving."), and the general feel ("Overall, the vehicle feels like a good replica of a Lexus or Acura.").

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/112_0908_2009_hyundai_genesis_update- _1/index.html?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a41:g26:r25:c0.020149:b26225142:z0&ID=loomia

backy

From the initial review by MT on the 3.8:

Though normally smooth and comfortable, it tends to get unsettled easily on rough or irregular roads -- especially where the left side of the road is smooth and the right is not. That can lead to a bit of a jerky experience, most likely due to the car's stiff anti-roll bars. On the plus side, the Genesis does handle quite well for its size, exhibiting minimal body roll through turns with quick turn-in and neutral steering.

http://motortrend.automotive.com/112725/112-0907-2009-hyundai-genesis-3-8-first-- test/index.html

backy

Apparently in the Genesis’ home market of South Korea, buyers favor softly-sprung luxury cars, so Genesis models sold in the US actually have firmer suspension than models sold in Korea. They need to firm it up some more. While I never felt unsafe, there was significantly more body motion than I would have expected. Steering feel on center was somewhat vague, but beyond that, it felt appropriate for a luxury car that doesn’t really have any sporting pretensions. The ride was comfortable, but again, too soft for my preference.

http://www.autosavant.com/2009/03/05/2009-hyundai-genesis-38-v6-review/

backy

Then again, I've left out the best part. Where a certain Asian competitor has taken twenty-some years to build a suspension system to match the top-tier Europeans, and some say still fallen short, Hyundai has created a winner right out of the shoot.

http://www.carpages.ca/article/2008/10/06/2009-hyundai-genesis-3-8-road-test-rev- iew

P.S. I love the subtitle on this one, too: For Those Who'd Rather Look Smart than Rich.

toye

Thanks for the all the reviews that you shared with us Backy. Yes the Genesis is not perfect, but Hyundai has put together an automobile that strikes the right balance in so many ways, paid attention to details and has priced it just right. Hyundai indeed hit a grand slam!

minivanguy

I've owned my Genesis for almost six months now and found that this car is no BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti, Acura, or Lexus. It's a Hyundai, That crazy salesman lied to me "DOH"!!! Backy way to hit the Conspiracy theories head on. The truth of the matter is that Hyundai has hit this one out of the park. Now other manufacturers are scratching there heads wondering where did they go wrong. :sick:

bobad

Educated adult people should know that there is a huge variability in individual tastes. Some people like Miata's, that absolutely pound my spine. Others like big Buick's that have a very soft, floaty ride that makes me seasick. About 5 in 100 people like Limburger cheese, which gags the other 95. When polled, 5 people in 100 are satisfied with nearly everything, 10 in 100 are satisfied with absolutely nothing.

I don't find it a bit unusual that an occasional person dislikes the way a certain car rides. In fact, it would be more unusual if everyone liked the Genesis (or BMW or MB) ride. The only point of contention is, who are the 10 percent'ers, and who are the 90 percent'ers? I think Edmund's Genesis Owner reviews point that out clearly. Even if the results are biased, the numbers are too overwhelming to be wrong.

donna388

"Both you and Bob have stated you have otherwise excellent cars,
so why not just slap some Monroe shocks on there and be happy?"

There you go again! :sick:

If you knew what you are talking about, you would not be saying that.
Kindly give us the part numbers for any aftermarket shock from
any aftermarket shock manufacture that will fit an Azera.

What's that you say? You can't! Gee Wiz. Who would have thought that!

If Monroe did make a replacement shock which they do not, those shocks would
not be worth the cost of having someone "slap some" on, as anyone who
knows Monroe Shocks knows that they will not last either. :lemon:

bobad

as anyone who knows Monroe Shocks knows that they will not last either

Bob,

How are the roads in your part of North Carolina? I'm thinking they must be very bad to kill shocks so quickly. Roads here in Louisiana arent very good, but my shocks last over 10 years and 100K miles.

ateixeira

You don't merely relay pertinent information, you cherry-pick the bad parts only and relay only those comments that support your point of view.

I'm not going to say an article is wrong, only that a few times here those articles are used out of context and the pertinent information is left out. Example: CR rated the Genesis coupe's ride as average, and the sedan's better than average, yet you still insist CR is calling it a problem? Really?

Like the boy who cried wolf, I can't trust anything you say, I have to refer to my CR to even respond because I'm sure once again you're seeing it from a slanted, biased point of view.

Quoting CR vebatim, Automaker Report Cards:

Highs: Controls, ride, standard safety equipment, fit and finish, long warranty.

Lows: Agility, fuel economy, acceleration.

Ironic - that's the opposite of what you're saying.

Also, as backy pointed out, CR goes out of their way to complement the ride of the Genesis sedan.

backy

Actually, I wasn't the one who pointed that out. But I do agree you have to look at the whole picture in these reviews. If you look at the full reviews that I posted (with URLs so it's easy to get to them), you'll see that the reviewers bring up positives and negatives on the Genesis. But none of them have a big issue with the ride. What's interesting is the difference of opinion on the ride even in that small sample of opinions. Some think it's great, some think it's a bit unsettled on certain roads, some think it's too soft. We all bring our preconceived notions of how a car should feel and drive. The Genesis sedan clearly doesn't meet those expectations for many drivers--either in a positive and negative sense. If Hyundai ever figures out how to satisfy 100% of all drivers of the Genesis, not only would it be an industry first, it would be real bad news for other automakers.

ateixeira

If no aftermarket manufacturer makes a shock for the Azera, maybe that's because there is no demand.

If every single Azera had bad shocks, there would be plenty of demand. Think about it.

captain2

and what does all this stuff about whether the Genesis has a decent suspension on it have to do with Hyundai's place in the the luxury market. :confuse: And FTM what does any favorable (or unfavorable) reviews of the car have to do with it either. :confuse: Don't believe there are many that can argure with it being a helluva car - especially for the money.

Hardly the point.

Folks that spend all that money on a car, besides wanting what they perceive to be the best (or one of the best) are also buying a badge and the status that comes with it. Sad, perhaps, but we have not yet gotten to a point that your neighbor is going to be too impressed when you tell them that you just spent $40k or so on that new Genesis in your driveway. Call it ignorance if you wish, but instead those neighbors are more likely to send in the guys in the white coats.

The Genesis (sedan) might just be the second coming of the Messiah, it might even be some sort of redefinition of 'value' (as many Korean cars are) in some sort of upscale sedan segment. Again, hardly the point. From the perspective of a place in amongst those cars considered 'luxury', it is still a Hyundai, isn't it? Has everything to do with badge recognition, Hyundai's own checkered past, and yes even those 'cheap' prices but very little to do with the car itself.

THAT, I rhought, is what this particular forum is supposed to be about :confuse:

ateixeira

To me it's a sliding scale, from sporty/stiff to isolated/soft. It's a just a matter of where you fall on that scale. You trade off ride for handling, or vice-versa. Isolation for feedback.

I think a lot of BMWs handle great, but the ride is quite stiff. Some Lexus models make you feel like you're floating on cloudes, but they're not as sharp in handling nor do they provide nearly as much feedback to the driver.

I guess you do in with certain expectations and if they're not met, you're disappointed. The Genesis coupe is stiffer than the sedan, but it should be, I think that's appropriate for each car's mission.

ateixeira

There are 2 people here that want to make this thread all about the Azera's shocks.

I don't even think the Azera is relevant to this thread at all.

This should be about the Genesis sedan (only, not even the coupe) and the Equus.

captain2

agreed,

donna388

"If no aftermarket manufacturer makes a shock for the Azera, maybe that's because there is no demand."

There you go again.
I said that there is no aftermarket manufacturer that produces aftermarket shocks for the Azera
or the Genesis either for that matter.

What's with the "if"?

True, no one will produce any part unless there is a demand for that part, but with such limited numbers of Azeras produced and for that matter, Genesis also, who will produce something that they cannot sell? :confuse:

As you said: "ThInk about it."

backy

No problem with me shelving the entire discussion on the Genesis' suspension. It's not an issue for me anyway. It seems to be for others who frequent this discussion, however.

But I don't agree that this discussion should be only about a piece of metal trim vs. the cars themselves. Please remember there are many buyers who are not smitten by those shiny pieces of metal that look like a 3-pointed star or a canted L or whatever. There is room in the luxury market for those buyers... thus there is room in the luxury market for Hyundai, based on their ability to deliver cars that meet the needs of those buyers.

carolinabob

Roads overall are very good, especially compared to the ones I have driven in Louisiana. Have driven over La. interstate, state and parish roads for many years from one end to the other.
Have never replaced shocks on any car I have owned in last 30 years and all had from 60,000 to 140,000 miles before I got rid of the cars. Lived in same area and drove same roads for 30 years.

captain2

ahh, but the difference between you and me is:
I can look at a perfectly 'luxururious' car like the Gen sedan, one with every doodad known to mankind on it, and then still tell you that it can never be a luxury car. There are mfgrs of luxury cars and there are mfrgs of pretty much everything else - Hyundai being a member of that second group, along with many many others.

donna388

"There are 2 people here that want to make this thread all about the Azera's shocks.

I don't even think the Azera is relevant to this thread at all.

This should be about the Genesis sedan (only, not even the coupe) and the Equus."

There you go again! You never learn. Just like everything you say, you are wrong.

The topic here is under the heading of:

"Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?"

And the last time I checked, unfortunately I have an Azera.
This topic is the first one available when you go to the Azera section.

If you do not like my comments about how I feel regarding the Azera not fitting into the luxury section,
please do not read them.
What I am trying to do is to keep others from making the same mistake that I did.
Of course, that isn't going to matter shortly as there will be no more Azeras beginning in MY2010.
In fact, when you go to most dealers now, there are no new 2009 Azeras on the lots already.
No wonder they sold so few. No demand and no cars available.
The last time I saw numbers, there were only 395 Azeras sold in that month.

backy

Yes, that is definitely a difference between you and me. I can see Hyundai as a provider of luxury cars. Just as I can see Chevrolet as a provider of high-performance sports cars, or Mercedes-Benz or BMW as a provider of economy cars.

captain2

Chevy does'nt make sprts cars, Corvette does, and is a name that could easily stand on its own in that regard. Chevy, of course, is not and could not be a luxury brand miuch in the same way that Hyundai can't. Although you certainly have an argument for the cheaper and tiny 1s and Cs not being luxury, I find it hard at 30k+ to call them economy, although they do cheapen their respective brands, much like Acura has been doing for years, Lexus does with the ES, and now Hyundai seems intent on doing with the Genesis Coupe.

ateixeira

my comments about how I feel regarding the Azera not fitting into the luxury section

Then by admission you don't think the Azera should be part of this discussion.

there were only 395 Azeras sold in that month

That's 1580 shocks right there (one per corner). Didn't you say they were all bad? Should be plenty of demand. :P

ateixeira

I believe this it the problem donna and bob keep talking about:

http://www.hyundai-forums.com/t33533-azera-suspension-quotclunkquot.htm

A clunk is pretty easy to discern, and none of the reviews we saw said they observed a clunk. That's not the same as a harsh ride or other minor complaints we've seen in the reviews.

Do you guys have that clunk? That's a problem, sure, but that's not what even the critical parts of the reviews are saying. Big difference.

m4d_cow

Honestly, we're all entitled to our opinions. There no such thing as 1 reliable source for everything. Like mentioned before, someone who likes Infiniti or BMW for their sport-luxury combination may be disappointed in a Gen. While those craving for Lexus or Audi may be disappointed by the interior. It's all subjective.

About Azera, I doubt people are complaining about the silly clunks. The one and only complaint I experienced (and heard so many times) in real life (no internet source) is that the suspension will get rough and ride quality will diminish greatly once the car's been driven for about 1000 miles. The Azera I drove, which at that moment just had a new suspension replacement, started bucking and clunking after around 500 miles, which lead me to question the durability of it's suspension bits. I thought it was just my bad luck, but later I found out that there were plenty similar complaints.

Is it still the same way now? Or has the factory fixed this problem? I honestly have no idea, as I haven't driven Azera lately.

PS: aftermarket shocks for faulty stock is no longer the trend, I've never heard of any replacement shocks produced for any 2000-now specific make-model (unless for mods or performance purposes). Today almost all manufacturers are focusing on getting things right due to fierce competition. Forget aftermarkets, today's all about filing a complaint or taking legal action. :shades:

ateixeira

today's all about filing a complaint or taking legal action

And that is their right, and they should pursue that.

I guess I don't get why spend all your time here bashing the Genesis?

It's a totally different suspension, platform, RWD even.

It's like saying JFK, Jr. was ugly because his uncle Bobby had Buck teeth.

backy

Chevy does'nt make sprts cars, Corvette does, and is a name that could easily stand on its own in that regard.

Strange, the last time I saw a Corvette it had "Chevrolet" and a bow tie on it. I didn't hear the news about GM's new brand, that has one vehicle. :P

Luxury brands offering economy cars is nothing new, there are many examples now and in the past, here's a few

Acura: Integra
BMW: 318 series, including the hatch, plus the low-end 3 Series sold today in Europe but not the USA
MB: A Class

If a brand like Chevy can successfully sell a $50k sports car like the Corvette, why can't Hyundai successfully sell luxury cars in the $30-50k range? Oh wait, they are already doing that... in the $30-40k range at least.

I am still trying to figure out how a $22-30k sports coupe "cheapens" the Hyundai brand. :confuse:

houdini1

You probably said the same thing about Toyota, Honda, and "Datsun". It was faulty reasoning then just as it is now.

captain2

Strange, the last time I saw a Corvette it had "Chevrolet" and a bow tie on it
you miss my point , people aren't buying a' Chevy 'if they want that kind of car they are buying a 'Vette'.YTou ask any driver of that car waht they drive, they will tell you a Corvette NOT a Chevy Corvette. If GM were to finish dissolving tomorrow, GMs Corvette plant (St. Louis, I think) and the brandname might be the only thing left worth buying. A Corvette is simply not identified as being a Chevrolet, and I don't think that the folks that are out there spending 50 large or so on what is one of the better perfromance cars think they are buying a Chevy either. If only Hyundai could separate Genesis in the same manner then we actually be talking about a new luxury brand called Genesis that happens to be manufactured in Korea.

So now, why does the Coupe hurt Hyundai's luxury aspirations? A simple answer - because it nows makes a 'Genesis' branded vehicle that much easier (read cheaper) to get. Conversely if Hyundai really does think that there is a market over here for a Hyundai branded vehicle that costs $60 big ones, then potentials like the Equus would help those aspirations.

One he of the things that has kept Acura, fro example, from what I regard as being accepted as anything more than a 'fringe' almost entry level lux label is the fact they they have messed around for years with cars like the Vigors/RSXZs/TSXs etc. cars too cheap and therefore more easily acquired. Ditto if you think about it for Infiniti, definitely fringe lux with those cheaper G20s/I30s etc. but now more accepted with the higher cost Gs and Ms. Part of the whole lux thing is all about how difficult they are to acquire - especially in financial terms. The fact that a 'Genesis' (if we are going to now consider that a brand name) can now be bought for 10 grand less does nothing but hurt any air of exclusivety that the Genesis might have had. Hyundai aggravates the problem even more by not differentiating a Genesis from a Hyundai, and of course the fact that we can all buy Hyundai branded vehicles fro a lousy 9 or 10 grand right out of the same showroom as that $40k Genesis.
Manufacturers that have a place in the 'luxury' market, don't sell cheap cars.