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My 2003 TDI has NO oil consumption either.... but I have been aggressive at breaking it in so the rings seat.
Do not forget that the TDI engine is a totally different animal from the 2.0 gas engine. The breakin process for the 2.0 does not include turbocharger loading and cooldown periods.
#1 rule... ALWAYS DRIVE GENTLY UNTIL THE TEMP GAUGE IS IN THE "NORMAL" AREA. (This goes for the life of the vehicle)
I am assuming you DO NOT have one of the turbocharged engines. (slightly different technique for these)
Basically, the Breakin can be considered a 2-step process.
1) Brand New Engine.(0-1000 miles) the moving metal parts have just 'met' each other so there will be a lot a friction. Take it easy for at least 1000 miles to allow the high-spots to wear off. This means no low-rpm loading of the engine. It is better to shift at a slightly HIGHER than normal RPM to reducing loading on the engine.
2) Seating the Rings.(1000 - 3000 miles) This is the 'fun' part of breaking in an engine. The Idea is to load the engine with aggressive acceleration... followed by decelleration.... then about 30 minutes of normal cruzing to allow localized heat to dissipate.
If the engine does not get loaded enough, the piston rings will not be pushed into the cylinder walls enough to seat them. The rings keep the oil out of the combustion chamber and the combustion out of the oil. (thus... a good seal is needed)
There are a couple ways to do this...
If you are city driving... use a lot of throttle to accelerate from red lights then allow to decelerate to the next light.
On the highway... every 30 minutes or so, decelerate to about 5 MPH below the speed limit then use full throttle up to 5 MPH above the speedlimit then decelerate back to speedlimit.
If you have a manual tranny, dont be afraid to get the engine near redline between shifts once in a while. (ONLY while accellerating... do not hold near redline with no load! )
The DECELLERATION part of this is crucial. While decellerating, the engine encounters totally different 'loading' that helps to seat the rings.
So what do I do to break in the new engine? Please forgive my ignorance...
(Incidently, I have "broken in" my 2003 Jetta TDI this way and am approaching 10k with absolutely NO oil consumption. (oil change at app 5k and oil change due at 10k.) Since full engine "break in" does not usually occur till app 60,000 miles, time will tell if the procedure I am following will work.
On the other hand, you have probably hear the motto: "Drive it like you stole it". To my mind if you do that, don't be too surprised if the vehicle you have broken in this way drives like it has been stolen.
VW is not the only manufacturer with the oil consumption issues. I have been following the BMW M-3 oil consumption and engine blow up problem and compared to the VW numbers AND percentages is FAR more acute. As a matter of fact, BMW saw fit to ad hoc extend the power train warranty to 100,000 miles.
2001 Corvette Z06's also has had oil consumption issues. Once again, following the 75% parameters, I have 53k on the clock with NO oil consumption issues.
Some of you responded as if the Jetta problems were to be expected. I have to disagree. I paid $22,200.00 drive out for my new Jetta in April 2000. I at least "expect" the car to last the 5 years of financing before I have to start putting out thousands of dollars, that's right thousands not hundreds. If any one of you think this car is worth this kind of money I will be happy to let my Jetta go for $12,299.00 obo. any takers????....I will be waiting for your response!!!!!! And please do not say that you already have one, put your money where your mouth is, and take this one, and sell it to the many, many buyers that are just dying to have this wonderful car! I will be putting my car up for sale just as soon as the dealer gets the necessary parts, and I get it back out of the shop. Yes I am having to wait for parts.
If the Honda/Toyota comments were aimed at me, I made no reference to any brand (I own a 98 Dodge RAM with over 120,000 miles), nor did I deny that individual cars of any brand have their faults. But the problem exists with the CAR, a dealership’s ability to fix it is immaterial to the car itself being junk. I’m sure that there are many people who won’t buy Brand X or Brand Y because of a previous bad experience with a car by that manufacturer – why try to dissuade them when the brand in question is VW?
I know that there is a rabid, loyal following for VWs, but some of us learn from bad experiences (ever heard the saying “Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me!”)
There are also those of us that shun any dealership’s service department, regardless of brand. We find a good mechanic or do it ourselves. It just seems that VWs, at least the newer ones, are very difficult to work on, even for basic things. The information for people like me, that enjoy working on cars, is hard if not impossible to find for newer Jettas (I won’t buy the shop manual because we’re getting rid of the car.) I’ve owned and worked on many different types of cars from the US, Japan, and Europe (including computerized cars) and find the Jetta to be the biggest pain in the butt. Luckily, we own the car outright and can sell it, trade it, or give it away, if we want. Her next car won’t be a VW – like the Who says “Won’t get fooled again ”
P.S. If anyone has any info on the speedo/tach issue (post #2794), please let me know – I’ll check the site often.
The industry average of problems per 100 vehicles was 273. (19th place)
(...is based on responses from more than 55,000 original owners of 2000 model year cars and light trucks. ... models at 3 years of ownership instead of 4-5 years to better support oem efforts to improve next gen replacement models
top ten
1. Lexus 163
2. Infiniti 174
3. Buick 179
4. Porsche 193
5. Acura 196
6. Toyota 201
7. Cadillac 209
8. Lincoln 212
9. Honda 218
10. Mercury 240
...
34. Volkswagen 391
We all know that Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are the same as Toyota, Nissan and Honda.... but with MUCH better dealerships and service departments. Gee... does that make a difference?
Dont get me wrong, JD powers, Just like Consumer Reports and all of the other information resources certainly have some merit.... However one must be realistic about the accuracy of each of them.
EXAMPLE: We have all heard of the TV-rating system. My family was asked to be a contributor to it once. My family dutifully kept track of all the TV shows we watched for an entire week and sent it in to them... Apparently they did not like what we watched, so they just never asked us to participate again. By "excluding" certain folks, they can make the ratings 'bend' to their likings.
The same is true for JD powers and most of the others. Do you know who pays the bills at Consumer Reports? Think about why their 'surveys' seem to always like Hondas... Is it perhaps their readership owns mostly Honda automobiles and their 'surveys' include only their subscribers.
1. Shouldn't the diagnostic computer have picked up on this the first time?
2. They ran diagnostics again and said that they would have to take out my dash, both doors, etc to trace the wiring. (Isn't that a bit much?)
Because they said that they have never seen a Jetta with rear one touch(like the front windows)open and close function. They feel somewhere the wiring was crossed. But from what I can remember. It has always been like that...I think. But I am wondering if anyone else has a 95 GLS with this feature. Thanks for your assistance.
ONLY the front windows are single-touch up/down. (and only when controlled from driver side.) The buttons are actually a 2-step deal. If one pushes the buttn a little, the windows are controlled 'normally'. When one pushes the button harder, then it is one-touch.
I can actually feel the 'step' in the front window switches that make them one-touch.
BTW: When I picked up my Jetta from the dealership, the salseman took over 30 minutes to explain EVERY SINGLE FEATURE. (including under the hood items and the screw-on tiedowns) These 2-step switches was one of the things he mentioned.
Total accuracy?
I would say it is a survey of smucks like you and me who own cars and who got on the list of folks being asked to rate them. Whether you believe smucks like you and me might be a separate issue. The survey might be a unproven radical idea to actually ASK folks who buy cars what they really think of them !!!?
If what you imply is to be believed, the only thing that VW is lacking is a service department like Lexus or Infiniti or who would have thunk it BUICK? So what do you think VW is waiting for then?
Actually in passing, the cars that surprised me were the 3. Buick, 7. Cadillac 8. Lincoln and 10. Mercury.
Might I suggest that the owners of Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln, and Mercury have a higher 'tolerance' for problems and may be more leinient on the surveys.
My main point is that WHO you ask (their point of view) can skew what appears to be an unbiased survey.
Using your example of: "These people remember when ALL american-named automobiles had all kinds of problems.".
I remember when you used to change out shocks at app 20k mile because they were SHOT !!! Gee, on almost all VW web sites, guess what folks who own VW's say about OEM VW shock absorbers? They are toast at 20k??!!
On (TLC's)ie Lexus, Toyota Landcruisers, stock shock absorbers last in excess of 100,000 miles !!!!!!
The "TLC" you mention above will rust terribly while the 100% galvanized body on the Jetta has a 10-year/ Unlimited-milage warrantee. I CANNOT bolt another body on!
My wifes Honda had over 120K miles... the shocks NEVER were a problem.... too bad the body was rotting away.
As I have said many times in the past... My prioritiy in a vehicle is to NOT RUST during the 12 years I plan to keep it. I expect to bolt on some replacement parts over that time.
(10,000 hrs, which is the estimated lifecycle of a TDI motor)
Also, I kept a TLC for 14 years. (no rust, but I live in No CA) But in keeping with the JD Powers survey, the 3 year problem with probably having to change out shot shock absorbers will probably hit the written page far faster and in less mileage than a rust problem at the 12th year. Also, we dont have long and far to look at real or perceived lack of VW oem parts quality, i.e. /struts/shocks. All you need to do is look at Bilstein strut/shocks (TC)(225 for complete set) with a lifetime warranty to see the disparity. (Incidently, oem replacement struts/shocks cost app the same and DO NOT have a life time warranty)
Another glaring problem is the rear brake pads and sometimes rotors that wear "prematurely". Some folks have reported rear brake pads and sometimes rotors "shot" with 25,000 miles on the clock. While I am aware that VW ordered/specified a more "durable" set of pads for the next model year, a stunt like this doesn't put a plus column check in the durability survey. At best, it fosters a wait and see attitude (or at least that is the attitude I have about whether VW has cured the problem or not.)So while it is not an issue with me (it should be but isn't) I do have a spare set of pads/rotors. (NON OEM I might add)
Thanks again,
ED
How did you get them to replace your engine? I have been told by my dealer and the corporate office that it is "acceptable" for the engine to consume 1 quart per 1,000 miles, and for it to be a quart low in between oil changes! how is that normal? they never offered me a compression test-I had to do the research and ask for it! I also asked about the rings not seating and was told they would have to take the engine apart to check that. Hopefully it will come up on the test (next week). I first started complaining about this at 12,000 miles and now I'm up to 30,000 miles. I seem to ahve hit a brick wall. I thought VW's were supposed to be reliable cars?
Nonetheless, I won't buy or recommend VW until I see at least 5 years of above-average reliability history for all their models in Consumer Reports and fewer major complaints on websites like this one. Mind you I didn't say, "Never". The new VWs are nice. Just the quirks need to be worked out. The year I bought my jetta CR gave it their valued seal of "recommended". Since then CR has rated the jetta and new beetle as unreliable new and used cars.
It's something to think about if you value your time, money, and emotional well-being. Countless trips to VW for unscheduled repairs are frustrating.
I was thinking of bringing it into the shop (TransOcean VW in Pasadena) and getting the oil consumption test done really soon. Cross your fingers for me. Which dealership did you bring it to?
Good pick-up on my name. Yeah I'm a surfer. You must be from Cali.
1. Is new gasket required/recommended when cover removed.
2. Is there a fuel filter in the fuel line in the engine compratment? What does it look like?
Not convinced that either of these is a cure because vehicle starts and runs OK other than at idle
.
Oil dip stick is made so that it appears that it should seal closed when it is in. This one is broken, no seal.
3. Could this air leak cause the vehicle to perform the way it is? If I remove oil fill cap and there is no change in idle, does that prove anything? If there is a change (worse) does that mean the dip stiick is OK?
5. If you know Jettas and this car appeared in your driveway, what is the first thing you would look at? I can remove parts, turn wrenches, but am not a diagnostician.
I have a 2000 1.8T Jetta GLS. I've had the Check Engine Light come on 4 times. The first two times, they said there was no problem and "reset" the system (not sure what that means) and the light went away. The third time the car required a new fuel pump that set me back about $260 after labor and tax.
The light came on again a few weeks ago. I ignored it, but then one of the power windows went bad so I had to take it in to get it fixed (which VW did for free) and I had them diagnose the Check Engine problem. Turns out my MAF sensor was bad, and so now they're replacing it. The cost is going to be $364.
I'm wondering if I should chalk all this up to usual car problems, or if I need to call VW Customer Care and discuss the issues with them.
In addition to these problems, the light switch for the interior lights broke off a while back, and I have to stick the broken switch into the slot to get it to turn it on or off.
This is my first new car, so I'm not sure if all this is normal or not.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Naveen
I first noticed this about three weeks ago and this week it has progressed to me having to fill the reservoir every day. Going to take it in next week, but wondering if anyone has experiences this issue.
I currently own two Jettas, a 97 GLS w/ 141,000 miles, and a 2002 GLS TDI w/ 40,000 miles. I bought the 02' because the 97' has been a good car. Big mistake! When I purchased, Consumer Reports was still recommending the new Jetta. About a month later they reversed their field and rated it "unreliable". The rest is history. We put a lot of mileage on the '02 in a year, but the repair record is terrible none the less. To name a few problems.
-ABS failed
-Mass airflow sensor failed
-Passenger side window regulator broke
-Radio broke
-Battery wires came loose
Needless to say, besides frequent oil changes, the car's in the shop 1/month for warranty repairs.
I'm trading it in this week on a new Civic and am taking a substantial loss because of the mileage. I'm too afraid of what this car will cost when the warranty runs out at 50,000 to keep it. It's a shame because the look, feel and driveability of the car are very nice. I will however never buy another Volkswagen. There are too many good cars on the market to waste time and money on VW, especially since the cars are not cheap. VW's going to have a hard time entering the luxury market with the Touraeg and the new sedan they're planning with reliability like this.
Someone in my office bought a used 01' (luckily with a warranty). He's had it to the dealer 6 times because the dash lights keep going out. My wife knows 4 people at her office with Jettas. 3 out of 4 have similar problems.
OF NOTE: One person I know with an 01' or 02' Jetta received a letter from VW stating that they will continue to fix the window regulator problem beyond the warranty period because it's a known fault.
I had the MAF on my car R&R as well as the Electronic Control Module (ECM). Finally, the wiring loom that connects to the ECM was replaced. That did the trick! The car's been running like new again, and I even took a road trip up to San Francisco and back to San Diego this summer. Got about 30+ mpg, too. Thanks VW of America for picking up the tab!
But I swore to myself I was either going to sell my glx or trade it in for a more reliable Japanese car. I could have bought 2 1/2 ugly Toyota Echos for what I paid for my GLX. LOL. Whenever I see other new jetta drivers on the road, I wonder if they might be having similar annoying problems.
Keep e-mailing VW of America with your jetta's problems.
Where to even being...within 1 month of owning the car, the front drivers side headlight blew. I had to take it to the dealer to replace it.
About 2 weeks later, the front lisencse plate fell off the car...after searching the streets high and low (the dealer is the one that put it on in the first place), I took it to the dealer to have it put back on (leave it to VW...I go buy a standard plate kit to put it back on myself..they make the front screws smaller then the others, NOT STANDARD) I was not about to go and shop for the correct size at a hardware store, so what happens...I take it to the dealer and get a bill for $16.00 (don't worry, we didn't charge you for the parts, that was just labor charges....) YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME...IT TOOK $16.00 WORTH OF ARM MUSCLE TO TURN TO SCREWS!!
6 months go by and all is well. Until my car starts making this extremely loud whistling noise. Loud enough that people are actually staring at me when I drive by. I take it to the deal AGAIN...and I am told that it appears that my oil pan cover was misfitted...but they will have to order the part...so, I get to play the waiting game. 2 weeks go by...now word...I call, it is on order, but no ETA at this point, I wait another week, call again, told the same...I am now waiting over a month and a half and get fed up at being stared at constantly...and I call Volkswagen of America and talk to the Consumer Advocate there...surprising, they could get the part it it would just take 3 days (should have done that from the beginning). So I take the car in...no loaner program available, no ride to work...nothing, so I have to inconveninece other people for VW not being able to do anything right. Finally the car is fixed...OR SO I THOUGHT. I have owned the car for a little over a year now...and when either front wheel goes over a dip in the road (recessed manhole covers are perfect for this) or I am going a slow speeds, I hear a brief squeal from outside of the car. I again of course have to arrange rides to and from work and such and they call me and say they can't hear it. PEOPLE STARE!!!
So I accept this and they tell me if it happens again come back...like it is sooooo convenient. I have to give them the benefit of the doubt...it is intermittent and those are the hardest things to identify. So it happens on and off but I am dealing with it. Tonight, I get in my car to come home from work, my front passanger side window locks up...and then continues to open and makes this horrible glass grinding noise. I try to put it up, more grinding like cracking glass. I am just driving to the dealer tomorrow and having them take care of this cause I have had enough, and they will be paying for the tint that I am sure is now ruined also. Will have to keep you updated on this.
That is the way a corrosion warantee works... you have to have HOLES in the body panels before it is even considerd a warantee claim. Then... just to make things even tougher... you have to prove that it rusted from the INSIDE-OUT. Otherwise they may claim that the hole was caused by external damage. (Thus not covered)
As for the peeling paint... it is very difficult to get paint to stick to galvanized steel. A special acid-treatment is needed to prepare the galvanized steel before applying the primer. Not to worry though...all of the paint could peel off of your VW and it will still not rust. That is the 'magic' of galvanizing. (It may not LOOK too great tho 8-(
I had some on-going issues w/ my 2000 jetta. Right after the 2 year warranty expired the check engine light would keep coming on time after time even after having it serviced. Finally, I e-mailed VW of A. one weekend about the problem and told them that the car had less than 12k miles (used to work half mile from my house).
Surprisingly, VW monitored and assisted in the repair of my car. 9 biz days into my vacation and 100+ miles later on the odometer, I get my car back. VW of A picked up the tab, even tho I was expecting to pay big $$$ myself. I just wanted the car fixed right so that I wouldn't have to keep taking time off from my teaching job during the school year to take the car to my local VW dealership. So far I've driven up and down California twice w/ no signs of trouble.
Nevertheless, I don't feel completely confident about my jetta and have decided to hold onto my '90 Toyo Camry. I'm looking to sell or trade in the jetta soon. Bums me out because it looks like a new car inside and out still w/ less than 17k miles on the odom.
Good luck seeking help from VW of A.
I had the exact same problem with my 2001 Jetta Sedan. I also have an extended warranty, but it is like pulling teeth to get the dealer to care about that fact.
The dealer "fixed" the brake light problem by replacing the brake switch, but created a new one when my brakes were super touchy after the repair. I brought it back and they determined they had installed a faulty brake switch. They installed another and all as been fine since then - well relatively speaking.
Good luck,
Stacey
Now, 3 months later, I am told the Secondary Air Pump needs replacing. At a cost of $576. These repairs are NOT normal wear and tear. I don't care what Volkswagen Customer "Care" says. I have driven Hondas previously that had over 100,000 miles that did not need the sort of costly repairs that this car needs.
I read recent reviews about the new Jetta. It appears they've increased the length of the warranty. About time, but where does that leave the rest of us?
For those of you have not contacted Customer Care, it's worth a shot for some of these problems. Once you've been "Cared for" once, you're out of luck, though. The fact that they produce cars with multiple problems doesn't seem to sway anyone at VW.
Quirky ads do not a car make. And my Jetta is neither stylish nor fun when it's sitting in my dealership's service bay.
On your MAF situation, on a TDI, the MAF's sell for 100 dollars on the after market(gasser MAF's can sell for as little as 25 dollars depending on 2.0 or 1.8). This is another example that when you decide to get a VW (Jetta in our case) doing some of your own mechanicking is almost mandatory. While MAF swapping is a VERY easy procedure, it can and does appear daunting.
For my .02 cents, if it were not for the TDI engine, not only is there no incentive to get a gasser VW(Jetta), the indications is that there are a higher % of problematic cars than either a Honda Civic or Toyota Corrolla, not to mention the fact that both of them are thousands cheaper than the VW.
I have to say that my 2003 Jetta TDI is virtually trouble free after 10k miles. My goal is to run it for the design life of the TDI engine (10,000 hrs). At an average of 55 mph I am projecting 550,000 miles. So if it goes the 12 year rust thru warranty time and hits 15 years, I will be spending app 9k for the average age that folks usually keep cars. (6-8 years) If there is any residual value after 15 or so years and 500,000-550,000 miles so much the better!
Unless the Federal law has changed recently,.... Anything that affects emissions should be covered by the FEDERAL EMISSIONS WARANTEE. For any vehicle year 2000 and newer, this is 10 years 100,000 miles.
This is the Federal Governments way of ensuring that vehicles will be "emissions-friendly" for the usable life of the vehicle. It is the responsibility of the vehicle MANUFACTURER to ensure this... not the buyer.
The "secondary air pump" is defiantly an emissions part. I also believe that the MAF also falls into this category. (You will most likely fail the emissions test with a faulty MAF)
Never, ever, buy a car in its first (or even second) year of production.
From my mechanical experience, it doesn't matter if you are buying a VW, Honda, Toyota, BMW, Chevy, Ford, etc. - the cars built in the first one or two production years will have a much higher incidence of problems than the same cars after the second year. I have quite a few friends who are mechanics (including my future brother-in-law who is a certified Nissan mechanic) who will tell you the same thing.
People nowadays tend to buy vehicles based on the lights and glitter of advertising without doing the proper research on the car - which leads to the many problems I have been reading about on this forum.
Case in point (from my personal experience):
1975 Scirocco (first model year of production):
Faulty clutch, fried wiring harness, defective zenith carburetor ($500 to replace, so I replaced it with a far more reliable 2-barrel Weber Downdraft carbuetor), and the real kicker - a leaking oil pressure sensor which resulted in a $700 (at the time) engine replacement.
1987 VW Golf GT (Third year of production):
The only reliability issues encountered was a faulty heater core (replaced under warranty),
a malfunctioning radio/cassette player (I replaced that with an aftermarket radio/cassette player), and the Goodyear Eagle GT tires (which disintegrated after 20,000 miles. All other normal wear and tear items lasted at least 200,000 miles - the original engine and transmission were replaced after 429,000 miles.
2003 Wolfsburg Edition Jetta (fourth year of production for jetta (A4 body style) line) -
No incidents to report after 5000 miles.
Feel free to either take my advice or not take my advice. For those who continue to plunk down your hard-earned thousands on a new car without taking the time to do the research first - I have this to say:
"Those who won't hear, must feel..."
Regards, and happy motoring!
P.S. - You wouldn't plunk hundreds of thousands of dollars on a home without doing the proper investigation, would you? Why shouldn't it apply to any purchase?
After you post your message, try not to hit the refresh button on your browser - it will post your message again (just found this out the hard way...:-))...
Regards