By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Does anybody have a tow hitch on their Outback? Is it low-profile, up close to the bumper? I'd hate to reduce the 18 degree 'departure angle' significantly (angle between the ground and a big plywood board wedged behind the back wheels and tilted up until it hits the bumper...or muffler...or tow hitch).
I'm way late on this, but I'd have to say my polished marble floor garage would have a modern set of cars, since I'm a gotta-have-the-latest-gadget-geek.
>McLaren F1 (wow, an exotic supercar in which I can take TWO of my friends along)
>Ferrari Modena (absolutely beautiful...maybe I'd park it in my livingroom and call it art)
>Scarab race boat (dual 2000 hp V12 version)
>custom 4-door Accord sleeperized (350 hp supercharged V6 driving the front wheels, and two 100 hp electric motors driving the back wheels powered by a capacitor bank or those new TMF batteries that can dump their 500 amp charge in about 1 second, full stock exterior...umm except maybe soft tires)
>And, the car I'd *actually* get if I won the lottery: Acura NSX for its perfect *balance* of manners, handling, power, looks, and cost.
Hmm, in response to Paisan, who wrote <<The subaru as I see it is basically the poor man's audi, no offense>>
That's one way to put it, but more accurately, the Audis go after a different target crowd by creating a different image. We're practical people, so my wife and I were *disgusted* with the consistently snobby Audi salespeople and the snooty, high-class image they tried to create of Audis. The product brochures are almost corny, and have "MARKETING" written all over them. Don't get me wrong: The A4 Avant 1.8t Quattro we tried is a fine vehicle, but for the money it was far from perfect. The premium stereo was boomy (though not so in the sedan), power was marginal (I know, $400 to chip it helps), automatic was underpowered, tiptronic was silly (if I forgot to up or down shift, it did it for me anyways...what's the point?). Again, 'for the money' we expected better.
Plus, I think you are comparing different cars. In our case, the Audi A4 was just not what were looking for --it has less usable cargo space (deep & narrow), low ground clearance (even for snow), and a not-very-open feeling.
When we go to replace our sedan (an aging Diamante), we'd consider the A4 sedan as a possibility. It is a very nice around town car, but doesn't cut it for the off-the-beaten path trips that we like to take.
Dave
To each their own, eh?
Dave
It was pretty flush, but still affects the departure angle somewhat. My suggestion is to find one that has it, and then measure to see how much it'll affect you on your wonderful off-road forays.
Marble is porous so it's a no-no.
It's also slippery when wet. Oh, that's right, not a problem with Soobs!
I have two funny Audi stories. First was at the auto show, where one of those snobby salesmen actually lectured me for about 15 minutes about the benefits of AWD. To ME of all people. Too bad I didn't even fit in that TT.
The 2nd in courtesy of my next door neighbor, Ralph. When it snowed he asked me to pick up some milk for him, so I did. I assumed his A6 was the FWD model.
Later I found out is was a Quattro, but he didn't have the ground clearance to drive in the 10-12 inches of snow on our street.
I got a real kick out of that. My Forester was so capable I had to try *hard* to make it sweat.
-juice
If I remember correctly, the 323i ad indicates cago volume for the wagon at just under 48 cubic feet. The Outback shows 68.6 with rear seat down. Once again, your comments are right on the mark. The Bimmer IS much smaller. By the way, my wife says she wouldn't be caught dead in a yuppie mobile! Thanks for making comparisons meaningful.
Don
I doubt an S4 owner would have ventured out, either.
My former neigbor had an AWD Eclipse and he said it was awful in the snow. The front spoiler was like a snow plow.
-juice
Did you know the 5-series wagon is classified as a compact, while the Ford Focus wagon is classified as a mid-size?
Can you imagine a family "upgrading" to a Focus after owning a 540i wagon? I believe they'd also be upgrading, in size at least, if they chose a Legacy.
Bimmers are sporty, but very small. I believe it was Drew that pointed out their in-line engines (mounted longitudinally for better weight distribution) sacrifice a lot of interior room.
Note that all Subaru engines have been mouted longitudinally, but they're shorter because of the boxer layout.
-juice
I installed the bug deflector on my '00 OB for about 6 weeks ago and haven't had any problems. I have no idea whether it's actually helped deflect stuff over or not, but I don't have any chips or nicks on my windshield and haven't received any new ones on my hood. (I got the deflector because I got a nice chip the first month and was quite shaken). It did vibrate once at about 85 mph with a very strong crosswind. I noticed I had one attachment off a little bit and haven't had any vibration since. (Even took the car over 100 mph to test-FUN). There was a post a while back about someone who took it off when he washed and noticed wear happening through the wear pads (provided). I don't take it off to wash, just slip my rag between deflector and hood. I really like the look of it and I haven't seen any new chips.
Brett
L- Sedan 5 spd 19,200
Outback 5 spd 22,700
I can't believe that Subaru is going to all H6 engines... 43% of Legacy's are sold in "L" or Brighton's and if Subaru's go to 30,000 they will be priced out of a good portion of their market. Toyota and Honda have both 4 cyl and 6 cyl in their competing models.. (I also can't be the only one that thinks there is enough power in the H4 as it is). Juice has been (rightly) defending Subaru's power in these posts. I think it is a smart move to offer an H6 option, however I just don't see Subaru going that far upmarket.
Frank
Chris
-- "just too educated to be driving a Subaru Forester" (which sounds just plain weird and unlikely to me).
-- too poor to own a Subaru Forester (which is largely true; I got my '98 Forester L used. A 2001 Forester S with a moonroof is far enough out of my price range that it might as well be a Lamborghini Diablo. The Car Talk demographics chart seems to show your average Forester owner claiming to make somewhere around $80K-$90K. If that's household, I'm too vastly far below the norm, but if that's individual income, I oughta be hitting some of you dudes up for some spare change).
-- too frugal to be a Forester owner (perhaps true, see preceding).
-- too male to be a Forester owner (I have heard that Subarus skew a tad more toward female drivers than many other makes, though I'll note that my Forester certainly doesn't have a dashboard bud vase like the New Beetles do).
-- And, finally, I'm not "flaky" enough to be a typical Forester owner (which has to be a flaw in the survey format, I tend to think I'm surely at least as flaky as the next Forester owner ... well, at least until I read some of the more extremely tidy-minded posts in the "Cleaning exterior and interior" topic ... )
I'm NOT too vastly far below the norm" ...
Frank
Just got in from the Dairy Queen!
It's been getting hot. Sounds like the
Car-O-Scope Folks and the CR's Folks are
Two peas in a pod.
Paisan:
Howdy Partner!
You sure caused a wind storm on that "poor man"
comment. Can't say that I agree with you on
that issue, but who knows.
Subaru Owners were Country before Country was
cool,if you know what I mean! You can see us
getting outback on the weekends for a
bit of R&R. The Parks,the lakes and Rivers,the Mountains and the Beach. Being cool on the way to
these was'nt an original Objective. It just ended
up that way.
The Audi is a nicely Design car,and it's cool,but most Subie Owners are just making a Dollar holler.
Later Ya'll
There was however a joke on the phrase, told, I think by Rolf Harris and most appreciated by the non-English (James Power will understand why, after living there).
A drake goes out on the town and, having a successful pick up line, takes a cute lady duck home to inspect his etchings. She settles comfortably, only to wonder what he is doing as he attaches a spring to each foot and then one to each wing. "I am going to show you my four sprung duck technique!"
Now who could buy an Audi?
Cheers
Graham
What do all those have to do with my decision? First and foremost, I like to get as much bang as possible for my buck. The Peugeots I've owned were wonderful in that regard because I bought them used, and used Peugeots were absolutely dirt cheap. In the end though the Peugeot was costing me $150+ to fix this or that little problem almost every time I took it in for an oil change; that gets old after a while. I wanted to replace it with a car I could absolutely depend on, a car that would not be likely to begin nickel and diming me when the odometer got above 60k. I know, Audis are supposedly better in that regard - which brings me to my last point. Jaguars have been getting "better" in that regard too, since the 1970s. They still suck. The newest Ford-based piece might be ok, but the rest of them are best thought of as the kind of car that causes you to have two. Audis may genuinely be better than they used to be, but things like the C&D long termer that needed a new transmission make me wonder if Audi's newfound reliability isn't really mostly marketing. I admit that my thinking is based on past performance but when it comes to reliability there simply is no other accurate measure.
So. Give me a car that gets me good yelp for my yen, and give me demonstrated long term reliability. Give me a Subaru. A Subie with more schwup and sass - one of the B4s for example - heaven!
Cheers,
WDB
I posted this message on the General Maintenance & Repair forum and got no response. One of many factors that led me to buy a Forester S over an L was the interior upholstery. The fabric looked less cheap than that in the L and the multicolor pattern woven into the gray reminded me
of a butterfly's wing.
Well now it reminds me of a butterfly's wing for
other reasons. In the last 2 weeks I've done a lot of driving on the NJ and PA Turnpikes as well as the GS Parkway. As a result I've been driving more often than not with my arm resting on the top of the doorsill, in preparation for paying tolls. Now I notice that a small patch of fabric on the
doorsill where I've rested my arm is starting to
look worn down! I tried raising the nap with a
nail brush and a bit of Resolve fabric cleaner (see my post in Crew - Cleaning forum) but the
beginnings of wear are still obvious.
Has anyone encountered this problem? Suggested
solutions? I don't drive in that position very
often but I'd hate to think I never could. Thanks
in advance for your comments.
Ask around, lurk in those topice. Little has changed but the pretty faces.
Too educated? I thought we WERE the educators.
Flaky? Isn't that the Range Rover owners that never stray from the country club parking lot?
-juice
With that said. I believe that the 2002 lineup will be as such:
1) Impreza L/RS w/ 2.5l N/A engine Manual or Auto
2) Impreza WRX 2.0l Turbo Manual or Auto
3) Legacy L/Brighton 2.5l N/A Manual or Auto
4) Outback 2.5l N/A Manual or Auto
5) Outback Limited/GT 3.0l N/A Automatic
6) Forester 2.5l N/A Manual or Auto
7) Forester 3.0l N/A Auto-only
Subaru will wind up shooting themselves in the foot with only offering the 3.0l in an automatic as they did with the SVX, I'm also afraid they will push the price of the 3.0l versions so high up that people will say "I'm not paying $30K for a SUBARU" Subaru doesn't have a $30K reputation. I'm as much of a subaru fan as the next guy (my family owns 9 of em) but for $30+K I'll get myself an Isuzu Trooper with AWD and LOW gears and can fit a ton more stuff than the outback ever will. As I said, for the $ the subarus are good cars, but as soon as they try to break out of the box and go upscale, they wind up getting slapped in the face. SVX is a prime example.
-mike
I dunno about the Trooper, though. People stepping up will choose an A6 Quattro, E320 4Matic, or XC.
Keep in mind the $30-32k prices are full MSRP. They should sell for maybe $27-29k or so, which doesn't seem nearly as bad (I think $30k is a psychological barrier for many people).
The first few may sell at list, but wait a few months and prices will be more reasonable.
-juice
That's pretty amazing, considering it was mostly commuting to the city with the 2nd worst traffic in the country (DC).
I think they stopped using oxygenated fuel or something. Mileage has improved markedly lately.
-juice
-mike
Oh another note for the person looking for the hitch on their OB. Reese has a very low profile one that my dad has on his lincoln town car. And I've heard about a uhaul one that it totally hidden. I wouldn't worry about the angle of departure too much, the hitch won't get hurt by whacking into things.
Anyone know of the heaviest thing that has been towed yet on a scooby?
Also anyone in the NY/NJ area looking for a great dealer let me know. Mine is A1 no-pressure sales.
-mike
that thinks there is enough power in the H4 as it
is).<<
I think 165hp is plenty in my Legacy L Wagon w/5sp. If the H6 was an option, especially if it had to be an auto, I wouldn't have even considered it. I can relate to the folks buying used Subies, I was looking for something that would be somewhat economical to drive, and my psychological (and practical) barrier was $20k, not 30! Luckily I was able to get my new Legacy for under 20.
As for mileage, so far I've gotten 26-27 mpg in mixed driving, and the engine's just barely broken in. Highway only, I'll be surprised if I don't get at least 30 mpg as long as I don't have anything on the roof. Would a GT get better mileage due to better aerodynamics, or less due to larger contact patches and the temptation to drive it hard? Hmmm.
Dave
Congratulations! You'll love it. But then, you knew that, didn't you?
Dave
531I'm surely at least as Clubsflaky as the next Forester owner ... well, at least until I read some of the more extremely tidy-minded posts in the "Cleaning exterior and interior" topic ... )
LOL (laugh out loud). That's rich.
..Mike
..Mike
Heaviest tow I've seen? Drum roll please...
Dave Chen and his 2000 Outback! Pulled this 4Runner right out of a mud pile:
http://thejuiceman.homepage.com/rescue.html
That's probably about 4000 pounds or so.
Hey - technically, is that a braked trailer or an un-braked trailer?
-juice
Or was that towed for an extended period?
-mike
All Wheel Drive, 0-60 in 5, and it be a wagon. yea, buddy.....
Cheers,
WDB
I have one on my 99 S - works well for deflecting bugs etc. I also bought it to protect the leading edge of my hood - I was getting many rock dings. At high speed (140km) the side mirrors sometimes vibrate. As mentioned you need to check the pads and protectors to make sure they do not wear through to the paint. Also be careful if you are installing yourself - it is very easy to over tighten the bolts and crack the plastic.
Stephen
Argh, maybe it's too much trouble and you should just leave it . I not only have airbag warning stickers on my ML's sunvisors, but I also have a huge rollover warning sticker, with a nice picture of an SUV tipping on two wheels included ;-)
Drew
What gas octane rating do you use for your GT's?
Francisco
Me, well, I'm getting like 19 in the city and 26 on the highway. Vroom vroom...
Dana, child stowage, aka third seat, has been discussed before but no one here has done it (or in the newsgroup alt.autos.subaru AFAIK). That would be one serious modification! If Subaru ever decides to build one, the market of our resident down under (Graham Peters in Australia) will have it eons before the North American market. A third seat would help Subaru in its upscale marketing (with the recently-introduced H-6 models, it wants to compare itself with the likes of Volvo).
..Mike
..Mike
If a 3rd row seat is offered, the cargo area also has to be structurally rigid enough to withstand rear impacts. I wonder if the '00 wagon was designed for this in mind. When MB designed the E-class wagon, they did extensive crash tests (complete with child sized dummies) to ensure that the passenger cell could hold up to the punishment. They're so proud of this that they even printed it in the brochure :-) On the other hand, Saab doesn't offer a 3rd row seat because, "we don't believe in seating passengers in the crumple zone".
Drew
I run 87 octane although I have put one, possibly two, tanks of the midgrade stuff in. Silly me, I failed to take note of which they were to see if the mileage changed.[1] The car runs perfectly on 87, nary a knock or a ping, and there certainly was no great power boost from higher octane. So my opinion is that as long as its coming from a decent gas station[2] I'm going to go ahead and run regular.
Cheers,
WDB
[1] I may soon have the opportunity to test tank after tank after tank under similar driving conditions, in which case I will probably bother to collect more data on grades and average speeds and whatnot. Should make for good bedtime reading (as in, it will put you to sleep).
[2] There are stations that pump water and crud into your tank along with the gas, and there is gas that does not contain the additives that keep your injectors clean and your knock sensor quiet. (Back when Sunoco sold all those "blends" of gas they actually had only 2 tanks in the ground, one with their "260" grade which had all the additives in it and one with their "190" grade which had NONE of the additives in it. They mixed them in varying percentages to get all those grades of gas. One result was that their regular grade was garbage. I haven't bought Sunoco in 20 years because of that little stunt.) When buying gas I try to balance my desire for the lowest price with a modicum of common sense.
Drew, I've wondered this myself. Volvo and Saab (and MB?) attach the shoulder belt to the top of the seat back, so when you fold down the seat, it's out of the way. Nice design. I'm sure others have it. The compromises the enginerds must have to make. I'd get frustrated trying to design it "right" but within budget.
..Mike
..Mike
cheers
Graham
Dana
If you switch to a higher grade of gasoline, you may not see any difference (if any) after just one or two tanks. The ECU in car engines today will tend to 'set' it's timing advance based on an average of readings. Unless you do something to the ECU to make it 'relearn'(ie. disconnect the battery or drive under heavy load with the throttle wide-open) chances are you probably won't see any immediate difference.
Having said that, the 2.5L SOHC engine has been designed for 87 octane so it higher octane fuel probably won't improve performance. However, it is interesting to note that the very first 2.5L engine Subaru introduced back in '96 did require premium fuel. In the following year, Subaru made some modifications to not only allow the engine to run on regular, but they also increased power by 10 horses. This engine became the Phase I DOHC 2.5L that became standard in Outbacks, GTs and Foresters until the SOHC Phase II was developed. Who knows, maybe the 2.5L engine can be tweaked with premium? Any thoughts?
AFAIK, the only vehicles in North America that have the seat belt attached to the roof are the Honda Odyssey and the Acura MD-X. BTW, when you fold down the rear seats, can you detach the belt? In the Odyssey and MD-X, the lap and shoulder portions of the belt are seperate and have to be buckled up individually.
I'm curious as to what you mean by this. The positioning seems fine to me when I buckle up in the middle seat. In fact, it feels exactly the same as sitting in the middle rear seat of a car (not wagon or SUV) that has a lap and shoulder belt. I'd appreciate any further explanations.
Drew