Subaru Crew

2ndwnd

>>The prices are quite high
so I'm not even sure it's in USD.<<

Each item states, "Pricing in US Dollars". And the prices are rediculous! $320 for a set of mud flaps? $150 for a shifter knob? $52 for a sticker!? Are these things made of platinum?They're insane.

Dave

pgibian

Is it possible to add a Bazooka powered sub to the
stock head unit that comes with the 2000 Outback
wagon? Subaru makes a unit that combines the sub
and amp that sits under the passenger seat but I'm
not impressed by the sound. Amp adds 80 watts of
power to the system. Will the stock head also
accomodate the addition of an after market amp?

I'd change the head unit but the wife wants it
kept in because all the after market head units
I've purchased over the years have incredible line
noise, humming, horrible AM reception (she likes
talk radio)
Any advice from you experts will be appreciated.

ateixeira

I also run slightly higher tire pressure, about 32/32. It's actually 29/26 for light loads, which is way low IMO. Though I also find 40psi high, since you run a higher risk of a blowout.

Michelle: congratulations! Finally got one, eh? Sweet! I actually think your price is pretty good, considering how well equipped it is. Also, look at it this way, NADA says the average sale price of a new vehicle is $24k, and you have AWD, that huge moonroof, and basically every option I'd want, i.e. hardly "average".

Ash: glad to hear yours is back in action.

Drew: just saw a spy shot of the new E-class wagon, and it looks much, much better than the current one.

The Forester has to be the most-mistaken vehicle on the road. A gas attendant referred to me as the "Green JEEP owner".

Dave (Al): my site has a photo of the bottom cover for the engine:

http://www.thejuiceman.homepage.com/oil.html

Now for the mileage report...

Vacation tank (mixed): 25.3 mpg
Beach Trip (mostly highway): 27.1 mpg
Back to work (mixed): 26.7 mpg

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty darned impressed.

-juice

PS i Club meet on Saturday was awesome. About 20 Soobs showed up. It was me (Forester), Mike Smith (GT Wagon), Bob Holland (GT Sedan), and WDB (OBSport) in the only non-2.5RS vehicles. Web site coming soon...

miksmi

Minor correction, Bob and WDB's rides are reversed. See my Q to you in the Events topic. ..Mike

ateixeira

Doh! I knew that. Too much rush to keep up.

-juice

francophile

I guess you don't mean the bubble gum .

I don't know for certain but it seems logical that you would be able to use the wiring for the Subaru-added sub to provide power and signal to your Bazooka. The sub installs in a very short time at the dealer so I suspect that the wiring already exists and all they do is plug the sub in and bolt it down. Check under your passenger side front seat and see if the wires are there.

Cheers,
WDB

ateixeira

The subwoofer in the Impreza is under the driver's seat, which may be why I was confused earlier.

At the i Club meet, "Girlie Girl", from PA, had it, and I was surprised at how small the entire unit is. I'm not sure about the Legacy, but my Forester has TONS more space under the seats, so something bigger could fit pretty easily.

I should have asked her for a demo. BTW, she was the only female owner there. Owners were basically young males, mostly college aged.

-juice

rsholland

>>Owners were basically young males, mostly college aged.<<

I was the token old fart!

Bob

rsholland

not the only one with graying hair!

Bob

ateixeira

We'll let people see for themselves:

http://thejuiceman.homepage.com/directory.html

Follow the bottom two links, which are new.

-juice

PS I can't decide what's worse: my hair going white, or me losing enough that it may not matter!

PPS Just realized I didn't take pictures of myself, OOPS! Anyone who wants to join the bandwagon can e-mail a picture of you and your Soob to:

ateixeira@ifc.org

miksmi

Haha, indeed Bob I too have gray/graying hair. But Juice, if you put up your photo, all the mystique will be gone

..Mike

ateixeira

Follow the link to the juiceman's Soob page. I had just gotten a crew cut, and I already look bald!

-juice

kens

juice,

Nice update to the website! Looks like you all had a great time. Wish I were back east to join you all.

So did it feel strange being a minority Forester? What's even more strange is that there were no Outbacks.

Have you thought about sending some photos to "Drive" magazine?

Ken

ateixeira

I'll probably send the original pics to Jeff, the host, and let him send them in. I figure I've already been published there.

It was strange to be the only Forester. It was REALLY strange to not see a single Outback. It felt like the dealership in reverse, where the rare cars were abundant, and popular ones MIA.

Here's a bonus:

http://thejuiceman.homepage.com/baggage.html

I took these shots when the relatives were visiting. Check 'em out. Talk about testing the GVWR!

-juice

ateixeira

PS Let me know whenever you have a business trip to this area, or nearby (Baltimore, Philly, etc). Maybe we could do a little gathering then.

lucien2

I PROMISE at least one Outback if I can ever go to one of these. Problem is I work in retail, so Saturdays kinda suck for me.

miksmi

Your schedule has been noted, Lucien, and I'll ask that the next one be scheduled on a Sunday. Wish you could've made it, but there will be plenty of other meets this year. The RS guys auto-cross on Sundays at Ft. Meade, I'd be happy to meet you up there one weekend (I just cheer 'em on). Stay tuned in the Events topic.

..Mike

myforester

Had the opportunity to drive my 2001 Forester over Hoosier pass outside Brekenridge, Colorado in the Rocky Mountains. 11,500 ft in snow, drizzle & fog. Several miles of hairpin curves and steep inclines. Passed a couple of CR-V's struggling their way up the pass. The Forester preformed effortlessly. I knew then that all the good people of this forum had steered in the right direction. Thanks everybody! And by the way, the heated seats are great & and so is the Casio Forester watch I wear on my wrist.

stevev1

Now that winter is over, I'm noticing a that Foresters are popping up like dandelions all around me. Counting mine, there are 5 within 4 suburban blocks of my house. The other day I fell in behind one at a four way stop, and at the next stop, another turned into our path, and we continued on like a parade through the village. I finally did my first waxing since delivery, used a clay bar to get out some metal bits etc from the paint ( What was I thinking buying White!) and used Mothers 100% Carnuba, in deference to Juice. Almost joined the Zaino cult, but I'm not quite ready for that yet. Shine could be better if buffed, but I feel wax is more for protection than look, and working at the airport and living on the flight path, there is plenty of gunk falling on my Forester every day!

stevev1

I'm long winded today, sorry. In spring cleaning my wife's Soob ( 90 Legacy LS Sedan, 88 thousand km) I poked around some rust in the front wheel well, and managed to open up a hole. I guess its' time to try some body work. The car is immaculate except for the wheel wells, which were repaired a couple of years ago, and probably missed by the rust proofing. Any recommendations welcome. With the low mileage and long paid for status this car has, I want to do it right, should make a great first car for my son when he starts driving in 2 years.

francophile

There's really only one way to fix rust right, and that is to get in there and cut it ALL out. If you really want to keep the car and keep it looking good consider putting a new/used fender on. If it's a front fender this will not be all that hard of a job.

The next best thing is to remove all the rust you can find, and then patch and paint. Naval jelly and other rust removers are good for getting at the tough spots, just make sure you remove every trace of them before doing any painting. If you can get at the inside surface might try putting a fiberglass patch over the holes from the inside and then using body filler on the outside to get a smooth surface.

Use primer and paint, never *ever* just primer alone. Primer bonds very well to metal, that's it's job; plus it actually *absorbs* water - you can see it change color when wet. The result is that primer will hold water tightly against the metal and actually accelerate rusting.

Good luck,
WDB

ateixeira

You got the watch? I KNEW I should have bought it. Next visit to Costco, if it's still there...

BTW, I love all those mountain stories. We're lucky to reach 3000 ft elevations around here. I remember being in Taos once, I was gasping for breath at the summit of Taos Ski Valley.

I had rented a Mercury Tracer, and it snowed. What a hunk of crap. Drove from Albuquerque to Taos fearing for my life, skidding all over the place. Funny thing is my Escort was much better in the snow (still no match for the Forester, mind you, but better). Guess that means suspension tuning and tires can make a big difference, but AWD rules.

Steve: what about one of those temporary canopys? I can't believe they can just dump that crap like that.

I agree with WDB, even one dot of rust can spread. I've used Naval Jelly and it dissolves the rust slowly, just use a glove for protection and a tooth brush.

If you don't like how it turns out, try a local junk yard for a new 1/4 panel. Some of them will even put it on for you. You'll probably have to paint it to match the color, though.

-juice

babaoriley

Just got back from a week in Hawaii-the Big Island only. Absolutely spectacular! Just wish I had my OB, there were nice dirt trails that went straight up off the highway. Also, could've driven to the top of Mauna Kea, instead of the 9000 ft. level. I drove all over the island, 850 miles driving. Saw lots and lots of Foresters. They were well represented and all in good shape. Foresters might be rentable, there were so many (wish I had known that before I drove a Sunbird.) Only saw 3 older Outbacks and a couple of Outback Sports. It was a great vacation, but I was glad to get back to driving my OB, the Sunbird got good mileage but that's all it had going for it.
BTW-just drove past a 01 Forester and was quite impressed. The front grill is snazzy. Will try and test drive one just to check out.

ateixeira

I'm jealous. Vacation, I take it?

Nice to know these are used where it counts.

Forester has two new grilles for 2001. The standard one has a few, big vertical chrome strips. The optional grille has many vertical strips, kind of reminds me of an Infiniti.

-juice

shndvn

Hi, there's a gauge pack in the 2000 Forester
brochure that shows temperature, direction,
elevation, barometric pressure, etc. It's
not shown in the 2001 brochure (although the
performance gauge pack is). I've called
Subaru of America a couple times and a few
dealers but haven't really got a straight
answer to whether it can be ordered on the
2001's. Does anyone here know?

Just to confirm, the subwoofer from the
Premium Sound Package goes under the
*passenger* seat, correct?

Thanks.

kens

Subaru might not be offering the former gauge pack since temperature readings are available on the dash and the new auto-dimming mirror has compass readings.

I would guess that you could still retrofit a gauge pack on a 2001 Forester since the center bin is unchanged.

aling1

I actually like the Forester's gauge pack because it's gimmicky and I like gadgets :-). It would've been nice to see a GPS navigation system as an option in the H6 wagons, but oh well. The McIntosh radio headunit seems too good to rip out in place for an in-dash nav. unit.

Drew

syeo

The subwoofer for my 2001 Forester was installed under driver seat.

-Simon

shndvn

Yeah, I like gadgets too. I just ordered a
2001 Forester last week with the auto-dim
mirror so I'll have the temperature gauge
and compass but I just like the gimmickiness (?)
of that little digital car and the other
readings would be nice too. Dealers said
I couldn't order it if it wasn't in the
brochure and SubOfAmer had answers ranging
from "I don't think it's available with the
new models" to "that gauge pack already comes
standard on the L and S models." (that last
one was by email)

Thanks Simon (re: the subwoofer).

torek

I have the 2000 with the gauge pack, and I like the altimeter/barometer, temperature gauge, and compass. Since the 2001 has the latter two elsewhere, the "gauge pack" I would like to see would have:

- oil pressure gauge
- voltage gauge
- turbo boost (on turbo models; blank, or maybe vacuum, on others?)
- GPS
- barometer/altimeter connected to GPS

The latter -- connecting the altimeter to the GPS -- would allow the barometer to correct for actual altitude and hence show barometric trend (rising/falling/steady) regardless of altitude. Now there's some real gadgetry for you! :-)

Chris

2ndwnd

>>The subwoofer for my 2001 Forester was installed
under driver seat.<<

In Legacys it is under the passenger seat.


Dave

steve236

I've been looking at the Forester S. Haven't had time to get to a dealer for test drive yet. All the literature I've read says its as smooth as driveng a car. Is the ride that nice? I'd probably use 90% on freeway and 10% on gravel and dirt roads. Any input would be appreciated.

edabramson

I presently own a Lexus ES300 and recently added a 2001 Forester S. The ride is better than you would think. Of course, quality of ride is highly subjective but IMHO the ride is better than any mini suv that I tested and almost equal to my Lexus. I have my S 3 weeks now and I am as satisfied with it as I am with my Lexus. Be sure to test drive it. Good luck.

Ed

jamespower

Took the Forester for it's first run off the black top today. Kind of cruel with only 800kms on the dial. It was an unscheduled call on a potential client at a quarry within the Tsuu T'ina First Nation, an Indian reserve on the edge of Calgary. As this was a formerly a military base, its 'roads' were an interesting mix of degraded pavement, gravel trails, filled and unfilled pot-holes and dry, rutted mud. The Forester handled everything in its path with amazing ease and apparent safety. The AWD, suspension and low centre of gravity were working in perfect harmony. In these mixed conditions - the Forester's natural home, me thinks - with no obvious speed limits, we were easily the fastest thing out there. However, out of respect for the residents, I soon decided to take an easy pace. Shortly after, I was passed, on the roughest section of all but still doing 50-60kmh, by a huge 1970s sedan, a minivan and a bright orange school bus loaded full of of grinning kids that was bouncing clear of the 'road' every few yards. Anarchy, but lots of fun......

Steve: can't comment on the S but the ride on the L is sweet on and off the road. The S, with different wider lower profile wheels/tyres may be smoother on the road and less comfortable on rough surfaces. However, we were coming from a Legacy GT, and no Forester can match that baby in cornering ability, wet or dry. At similar speeds, there is much more body roll and lots of complaints from the higher profile tires. But, for me the trade-offs are well worth it. Certainly the best car I have owned, and probably the most fun and the most versatile car I have driven. Yes, it's a car, a tall car, but the ride compares very well with other cars in the price bracket. Go test one, you'll be imprezed.

JP

intrigue2

does anyone know if the 2000 legacys hava an emergency release cord in the event the gas door release inside the car fails.

francophile

That's a very interesting, and I believe accurate, observation. Not only is the Forester far more of a tall car than it is a small truck, it is also the kind of vehicle that people who are currently buying behemoth SUV's actually need. Lexus and Honda are now building their "SUV" vehicles on car chassis, and this trend should continue (much to the dismay of the frame rail factory next door, and the axle factory down the road, but hey - that's progress).

Patrick Bedard made a virtually identical comment on SUV's and tall cars in the latest Car and Driver. He posits that part of the reason for the popularity of SUV's is that people are getting taller, and older, and SUV's are easier to get into and out of for those folks. He's probably onto something. But I'm taller than my parents, and I have gray hair, and I still like my cars a bit closer to the ground. I rue the day I won't be able to scootch into a slinky sports car.

Cheers,
WDB

denicee

When I bought my Legacy the dealer was unable to find one with a CD and it would have been over $400 to add one. Does anyone know if I can just add the CD without replacing the cassette player? Any good sugestions as far as models?
Denice

ateixeira

JP: way to go, tread lightly. One of these days someone passing you will need you to help yank them out of a ditch.

Denice: you can add the CD from Subaru (order from QSubaru@aol.com or any other wholesaler), or go aftermarket. The Forester has a place for it right under the head unit, I'm sure the Legacy does too. It's cool because then you have both, for things like books on tape or tapes you recorded (CDR's are still uncommon).

Small SUV? Tall car? Hybrid Sports Wagon? All of the above, probably.

I'd argue that the Forester is actually better than an SUV for elderly people, since you don't have to climb in. My mom simply couldn't get into my wife's uncle's 4Runner. She could slide right into the Forester; it was the perfect height.

Speaking of ride, Forester won a "Best Ride Award" from Machine Design Magazine. I forget which, but it also won an award from some disabilities group for ease of use.

-juice

cheapjewels1

Hi guys, I posted last night in the Maint/repai section, and am wondering if it's OK to drive distances (about 400 miles RT) waiting for a fuel sensor to come in. The part will be in on Friday, but that is the day I have to drive to...well beautiful downtown Des Moines, IA. I have 7,000 miles, 2000 OB, check engine light came on and it is a failed fuel sensor.
At 5,000 the light also came on and it was a failed fuel INJECTOR (not a good thing) and I could certainly have been stranded if out and about when that went bad.

The service writer says it's ok to drive, but I am really not sure he heard me say i had a distance trip. Thoughts from any techo types mucho appreciated! Julie
post here, I'll check again tonight or email to dorathy@genesishealth.com or jdorathy@aol.com

Thanks!!! (PS Still love car, it's just the engine....)

ateixeira

I'd call him back, and let him know the total distance, round trip, and ask again. Don't be shy, this is your Sooby we're talking about!

Beyond basic maintenance, I'm not much on techie stuff. Where's Roy? The usual suspects?

-juice

kens

steve236,

The Forester S rides like a car on-road because it is a car. If you ever do get a chance to drive one, you won't be able to tell you're in a hybrid SUV if you ignore the higher seating position and fantastic outbound visibility. It's by far the best handling vehicle in it's class.

That's not to say that the Forester can't take mild off-roading either. It's heavy duty long-travel suspension just soaks up ruts and bumps very well.

ateixeira

He ain't lying. Follow some of the links on my homepage:

http://www.thejuiceman.homepage.com/directory.html

The link to Subaru Crew shows one of KenS' off road forays. The Rescue page shows a hilarious adventure Dave Chen had.

If you really want to see some heavy duty off-roading, check out the Yahoo Forester Club's photo gallery. In it a Forester literally jumps 4 feet up out of a sand dune.

BTW, he drove home in comfort.

-juice

jamespower

Yes juice, the ditch thing already happened when we took the GT to Glacier National Park, Montana in February - I have photos.

Just wanted to add that IMO the Forester has been such a success because it manages to hit two (overlapping) target groups.

One 'group', the larger of the two, is populated by those who go for the Forester for the ride/seat height, car-like feel, SUV styling, seamless AWD and safety features. These people currently have to decide principally between the Forester and the CRV, and tend to buy automatics. They don't care too much about performance and handling as long as these are 'adequate', but they do like a car to be loaded up with AC, power locks, etc. My mother-in-law, a prospective Forester buyer, is in this category. But, she still really likes her 12 year old Mercury Topaz.......

The other 'group' that the Forester addresses love the car for it's ability to translate the performance aspects of the rally-developed boxer engine, Impreza chassis and the AWD to real world driving situations. They like the fact that the Forester can be taken down regular roads, muddy trails, gravel roads, ice/snow bound highways, maybe even to track days. Anywhere there is a 'road' of some kind. This group enjoy the engineering that goes into a Subaru, both for it's own sake and because of the way it feels so 'right'. In an ideal world, these buyers would unwrap a new rally-prepared WRX each morning, but where would they put the kids, dogs, groceries, etc?. They tend to buy 5-speeds. If they have done lots of research and test drives, they will have rejected the CRV and are comparing the Forester with well, not very much at present. At a push, maybe the 2.5RS, OBSport, Outback, GT, ??

So group (a) is the soft-SUV, easy-to-get-in-and-out, people friendly Forester market. Group (b) buy into some of that, but it's not the real reason....

JP

ateixeira

JP: an interesting assessment.

Given that I got a 5 speed with few gizmos, I guess I fall into the 2nd group.

Interstingly, I test drove a Passat, Accord, CR-V, Outback, and RAV4. The sedans were boring, the RAV4 was too small and underpowered, and the CR-V was slow and handled poorly. I chose the Forester, but the Outback was a close 2nd, and the Passat was the clear non-Subaru choice.

Now if only they'd bring the B4 RSK for my wife, I'd convert her in a second.

What alternatives did you guys consider?

-juice

jamespower

The above was a retrospective analysis. I actually arrived at the Forester by accident. Our original budget bought us just into used 96-97 outback territory, but we couldn't find a decent example. No Foresters at all at this price. The GT was kind of a next best alternative. Tested but rejected options included new focus wagon (no awd, long-term reliability issues), or used rav4 (size), crv (slowness), cherokee (uncomfortable, long-term reliability), legacy L and brighton (kind of boring), impreza and outback sport (too small).

Second time around, we were offered a great deal to give back the GT provided we took a new Sube. Given we had exceeded the budget by a few ks, we had to take the cheapest suitable option, i.e. the Forester L. At the time I would have preferred an Outback, but if I had my time again and with no financial issues, it would be the Forester S limited/premium no question.

JP

kens

JP -- Interesting assessment. I'd say I'm 1 part (a) and two parts (b). I love the practicaly, saftey and features of the Forester, but it's the rally heritage that really makes me smile.

juice -- When I started shopping, I was driving a Toyota Camry (wife's influence, really!) and I was getting tired of having to chain up on my trips to Tahoe as well as not being able to just haul stuff around. I had my heart set on an OB (this is back in early 98) but I just didn't like the styling. I started expanding my search and came across this quirky looking model called the Forester. Test drove it and knew this was what I wanted. I looked at other mini-utes but they all paled in comparison.

locke2c

To pump up you Forester guys a bit, did you know that it actually is used by Prodrive as a scout vehicle for rallies?

They actually went so far as to specifically credit the Forester for its durability and suitability to scouting for the Kenya safari rally (feb 2000). It's the longest, roughest rally and the Foresters had no failures whatsoever. (of course they weren't stock, but...)

And the Impreza WRC didn't have any problems either, Richard Burns brought home first and Juha Kankkunen second.

I remember reading the FIA release about the Forester scouts but unfortunately I can't find it now.

-Colin

ateixeira

No wonder you always mention NOT having to stop to put on chains during your excursions, KenS!

That's schweet, but we shouldn't be surprised. The Impreza chassis' provides an excellent basis.

If you come across that link again, please share it!

-juice

PS Forester also holds a 24 hour high speed endurance record for its class

2ndwnd

Well, a Legagy L Wagon may sound boring, but compared to a minivan, it's fun city, especially with the five speed. Our 92 Voyager did a great job for us as the kids were growing up, but with 130,000 miles on it I was concerned about it breaking down on long vacation drives. (good excuse to get me some new wheels) So I looked at RAV4, CRV, Sportage, Forester and Passat, and eliminated all of them without driving any of them. The Passat was out of my price range. The Sportage was too small and quality and reliabily was suspect. The RAV4, Forester, and CRV were possibilities, but when it came down to it, I decided that all my needs would be amply filled by the Legacy Wagon. If I had gotten a mini SUV, I'd have sacrificed acceleration, space, and comfort so that I could have a more popular type of vehicle. If I'd had a little more money to spend, I might have gotten a GT, but I'm well satisfied with my choice.

Dave

jamespower

Actually, I wish I hadn't said that about the L, it's a very worthy vehicle, particularly in Y2K 2.5l mode. I drove an L sedan for a week in March. However I dispute the mini-SUV negative points if you are including the Forester in this category. It is at least as comfortable as the Legacy in the front, with excellent side and lumbar support, and lots of adjustment to seat and steering. I can get very nearly the same amout of stuff in the back, particularly if you consider the high roof, the vertical back door and my dog divider stopping things falling into the back seat. But the big one is acceleration. I haven't done much highway, but the Forester is significantly quicker off the line, around town and on suburban freeways than either the Y2K L or our old GT. Just wish it had that UK 2.0l turbo motor.

JP