Subaru Crew - Dealers & Pricing

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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Depending on the features they add, it could cost more than $1000 more. I couldn't speculate on the increase in cost of them. You may be correct in that the 2001s will be few and far between. Also I think the gas milage difference will be greater than the difference between the OBS and the RS. The OBS is probably a lot heavier than the L. My dad has the 2.2l in his '97 legacy L and he routinely gets 32-35mpg with it on the highway. (auto-trans)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    paisan: the new models supposedly gained 150lbs, so perhaps the 2.5l won't quite get today's 23/28.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The $1000 is my educated guess. Subaru has been adding content with very small price increases. The grand covers the engine.

    It'll also have a longer wheelbase. I expect the rear LSD will become available in more models, and maybe other features, like optional heated seats and bigger standard tires.

    Just guessing, though.

    But the turbos will be the real temptation.

    I'm also figuring March.

    -juice
  • aussierooaussieroo Member Posts: 78
    Patti is a cog in the wheel at Subaru - not a magician!!!
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Hi Theo, Sorry to hear about your woes; it's frustrating when you're trying to give someone some your hard-earned cash and it seems like they really don't want it. I think part of the trouble is the way cars are sold in the US (all of them, not just Subaru). Unfortunately, until the market shifts to a direct sales model (buy direct from the manufacturer; dealerships become service centers), it's going to be tough to completely avoid the issue you've encountered.

    You might also try a buying/leasing service; click on my profile for details on CarBargains (takes about a week to get a quote; I used them for buying). If you've "gotta have it now" ;) it's not for you.

    As Gus said, Patti isn't the CEO; she helps when she can. Sometimes she can help, sometimes she can't. She always gives it her best. She's very dedicated to the customers and she's very overworked. Edmunds.com is an adjunct to her day job at SoA.

    The Internet is a very big place for just one Patti. :)

    Cheers,

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • lergeson1lergeson1 Member Posts: 15
    I agree with all of your comments about Patti. However, I do think that since the VDC and LL Bean models are the "new and luxury" models for Subaru, that dealers would be super sensitive to negative feedback and customer backlash. The last thing any company needs when it comes to releasing new models is too piss off the folks who really want to be the "first on the block" purchasers. If I was a dealer, I would do everything possible to get the VDCs and LL Beans out there in the public eye.

    Plus, the Edmunds site shows the APR financing of 4.9%, 6.9% and 7.9% do apply to the VDC and in Colorado. It does not say whether delivery is required by the 01/02/01 cutoff though.

    To me, it just seems like dealers often shoot themselves in the foot more than they don't.

    Leif
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    I'm not saying that Patti doesn't do a great job and isn't overworked. I've really appreciated her willingness to answer questions and feed back to corporate! I was just trying to explain a _small_ _part_ of my frustration that culminated with the brushoff that I got from "Diane". That brushoff, combined with the lack of integrity on the part of the dealers, had me really ticked.

    I'm not interested in being "first on the block". If that were the case, I'd have ordered w/o driving one, I'd be willing to pay a lot more and / or would take one of the several units in the area that would work. We were underwhelmed with the responsiveness and build quality of the 2kOBLtd, so were waiting for the VDC (don't like the Bean googaw, ski ~20 days/year so would like the additional stability/traction, enjoy _good_ music reproduction, etc.) or save for an Audi (reliability???, room??). The VDC, for the most part, met or exceeded our expectations. However, we'll keep our cash and our 10+yr, 140+kmi vehicles rather than feel like we've been fleeced.

    Simmered down ;-)
    Theo
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Yes, keep in mind that Patti is here on an unofficial basis and helps when she can.

    My friend was recently shopping for a Legacy GT Ltd. She was getting a lot of b.s. from a dealer in Brooklyn. She also ran into problems with the financing quotes. "If we have to order it and you don't receive it until Jan. You don't get the financing deal". She raised a little sand with the Sales Manager, got her deposit back and bought the GT from another dealer.
    Glad you've simmered down. :-)

    Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Theo: don't pass on the vehicle you like because of one bad dealer. They're independent anyway. I'd even be willing to bet that they aren't primarily a Subaru dealer, since few are.

    Maybe someone here can recommend another dealer in CO near you. Doesn't John Elway own one?

    I say get a price quote from www.fitzautomall.com and ask a different dealer to match it. They're in MD - so what? Tell them you're willing to buy and drive it back! There are also services that negotiate for you, are you a Costco or Credit Union member?

    Also go to a credit union and get a pamphlet on car loan rates, and ask them to match that, too. If they know you have alternatives, they should work with you. 7 to 8% sounds fair.

    The web is a powerful tool. Use it to your advantage to shop around for both VDC price and finance rates. Good luck.

    -juice
  • wendynwendyn Member Posts: 11
    We are looking at either a VDC or LLBean and this is the story we got...the financing deal is only good until 01/02/2001 like the above post stated, and therefore if we order a car now and it takes 6-8 wks to come in we can't get that financing. However, the financing may be extended into January (our dealer thought it would be) and if it is obviously it would apply. Since car sales in general are down I wouldn't be surprised if they kept the low financing as an enticement.

    In terms of the dealer bumping the price up...that is a bummer. We haven't begun to negotiate yet but I am hoping to get either car around $500-700 over invoice. I have checked prices on Edmunds (TMV), Greenlight.com, carsdirect.com and driveoff.com to get a good average and it seems I should be able to get this price without a problem. Not looking forward to the negotiation though!

    Thanks to everyone for the feedback from prior posts, it has been invaluable.
    Wendy
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good point, Wendy. They probably will keep it, but the dealer can't make that promise because it's not under his control.

    Wendy: try bidding via e-mail. You want $500 over with no processing or advertising fees, freight included. No baloney.

    Worth a shot!

    -juice
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Theo, Glad you've simmered down. :) Agreed, being the early adopter/pioneer isn't worth being fleeced. I took a gander at your profile and started thinking about Subaru vs. Audi (I know this is the wrong topic but..) IMO it's tough to beat a Suburu's bang for the buck. Audi (which has some very nice machines) is no where near the value of a Subaru (yes, they're in different classes). I sat in an allroad quattro in the Audi/BMW/Porsche side of the Sube dealership. Visually, yuk! (aluminum roof rails? no thanks) Dealer said the allroad is based on the A6, true? Looks bigger than the current A4.

    As Ash and I said (IIRC) in Future Models, a bigger RS4.. now you're talkin'. Man I wish Subaru would bring over the GT-B (turbocharged Legacy platform on a wagon body). That would be schweet.

    Anyway, I hope you can find a good dealer or wait for long enough for a VDC. Please contribute often!

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Juice: I think you touched on something in regards to bidding. There are 13 Subie dealerships within 100 mile radius (1.5 hr drive out here, 20 w/in 200 mi). I know of at least 4 that I'm pretty sure have yet to sell a VDC and would be hungry enough for it that they might give a real good deal. They're all in small outlying towns. The Soobie dealers close to Denver and Boulder are fat and happy, so aren't nearly as interested as the outlying ones. With slowing auto sales I think Wendy's probably right about the financing being extended and would expect all of the dealers to be hungrier in Jan/Feb.

    Mike(smi): The allroad is based on the A6, repairing the air suspension could be extra $$$. I don't mind the styling, tend toward Euro anyway. The 2002 A4 is supposed to be larger than the 2001, but like you, I think there's probably more value in the soobie (unless you want to put a price on the marquee).

    Theo
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    Well, I hope you don't give up on Subaru because of that notably bad shopping experience, but I sure as heck wouldn't give any business to salesman Joe.
  • mtnshoppermtnshopper Member Posts: 58
    Hello Everyone. I'm curious about Theob's bad dealer experience. I seem to have missed some of the details. I can't find the original post and I'm weary of scrolling up. I apologize, but can someone tell me which Colorado dealership was difficult? I'll be shopping in Colorado and would like to know because I anticipate having a difficult time here too. Also, I read on the Fitzgerald site that they sometimes deliver vehicles to the purchaser's home or office (don't know if there are mileage constraints). Has anyone bought long distance over the internet and had a vehicle shipped cross country?

    Thanks, mtnshopper
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Mtnshopper,

    Other people have reported good results with this same dealer. Aguirreroy (Bob Roy) reported that King in Loveland ordered him a Forester for invoice and was the quickest to respond to his bidding request from area dealers. Some factors involved that changed the dealers response may have been the model requested. Since then, the market has changed and there is a _lot_ more inventory on all of the area dealers lots. I.e., there are now 38 VDC's in stock within 100 miles!

    Ordering from a Wyoming or Maryland ( or KS or NM?) dealership and having a "Courtesy Delivery" to Heuberger might be worthwhile. Dellenbach in Ft. Collins said they would do a courtesy delivery for $250. That should give you some idea. Also, most (all?) Colorado dealerships charge a $225 advertising fee that is built into their invoice. WY dealers, for example, have a much lower adv. fee.

    FWIW,
    Theo
  • mtnshoppermtnshopper Member Posts: 58
    I wasn't aware that a selling dealer would ship a car to another dealer for customer pickup. I will keep "Courtesy Delivery" in mind. That may be very helpful. I won't be buying for another few months and haven't even visited the Heuberger lot yet. But just yesterday, I had another co-worker tell me they tried to buy from Heuberger, but ended up buying in California and driving their car back. I will be curious to know where you end up purchasing your car.
    Happy Shopping, Becky
  • bulkbulk Member Posts: 1
    I am picking up a 2001 forester I with 6 cd, arm rest, auto dimming mirror, cargo cover, keyless and security package for approx 21,700 + tel with 6.9% financing. I probably should have bargained better. I am purchasing from North Park Subaru in San Antonio, Texas. The dealer had a good quantity of foresters on the lot. I want to thank Edmund's for their site. It helped but these guys were very high pressure and almost walked away twice. The printouts caused them to show me their invoice even though I had figured it out anyway. They did a lot of number switching on me. Paid approx. $500 over invoice and got a little stung on my trade but made some of it up when they had to give me some options back. It was a necessary evil for me. like the car I am looking forward to the all wheel drive and anti lock brakes. I was originally looking for a more traditional sub but the sub sticker shock and subarus relaiblity, and ratings and the enthuastic owners on edmunds brought me back. I have been to the juice man's web page and have read a lot of the message boards. Well take it easy bulk
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Could you please give me a call at 1-800-SUBARU3? It appears that I missed something and I cannot find the original post. If you feel I brushed you off in some way, I sincerely apologize. I'm just not sure what the issue is so I can't help. Please get in touch with me so I can see if it is something I can help with.

    If it does turn out to be something I cannot get involved in, I'll let you know up front but I would hate to have you upset about something because I did not catch it.

    Thanks and Happy New Year!

    Patti
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    bulk, congratulations on your new Subaru! I have a son in San Antonio. It's a nice town. A bit too hot for my tastes but there is a lot to do and the people are among the nicest I've met anywhere.

    It sounds like you got the kind of crappy sales treatment that keeps people away from "normal" car dealers and sends them scrambling to the Saturn showroom where there is no hard-sell nonsense. Sorry to hear about it. However, you did the right thing by going in with information in hand. I agree with you that Edmunds is a fantastic resource. It also has calculators for figuring out the value of your used car, so you can pretty much go into a dealer and say, "here's how much I'm going to give you". That's what I do and the salesmen stop dorking around when I do that. They know the gig is up.

    Anyway, you bought a fine vehicle. Unlike most SUV's, the Forester has a very low center of gravity due to its horizontally opposed "boxer" engine and compact AWD drivetrain. Your new Forester will drive and ride like a car, not a truck. The AWD will be handy under all conditions too, not just ice and snow (which you won't see much of in San Antonio!). The AWD in Subarus improves handling and control on dry, wet, dusty, muddy, and any other road surface. You name it, Subaru's AWD deals with it. If there is any downside compared to some other SUV's it is that the Forester will not go as far offroad due to its longish front and rear overhangs. We're talking serious offroading though, and the fact is that most SUV's will never go there anyway. Your Forester is based on the same chassis that has won 3 World Rally Championships, so if it looks anywhere near like a road, you've got a great vehicle for it!

    Enjoy your new vehicle, and I hope to see you in the Subaru forums!

    Happy New Year,
    -wdb
  • soon2bsubeesoon2bsubee Member Posts: 137
    Hi, I hope you had a wonderful holiday....I have been home on vacation so I don't know if you had a chance to get back to me at my other e-mail address...I will be back at work on Jan 2, so if you have a chance before then, I can be reached at subiefam18@aol.com. thanks...Serge
  • mark212mark212 Member Posts: 3
    I returned my 98 forester at the end of its lease and leased a 01 forester s+. The dealer was Neil in Long Island. When we read the lease it was dated ten days earlier and was for 12 thousand miles rather than the 15 thousand as agreed. The manager blamed the clerk and an the lease was printed. Unlike our 98 lease this Subaru lease contained a $250 termination fee. Has anyone had an experience with this fee on Subaru leases or is the dealer pulling a fast one.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The terms and conditions are set by the leasing company. Not the dealer or SOA. The dealer may have switched leasing companies on you. I know with GE Capital, I had a $400 termination fee on my Rodeo. Now that Isuzu has their own credit division, they don't have a termination fee. SOA could have changed the terms.

    -mike
    Isuzu Forum Spokesman
    Edmunds Isuzu Forum
    IA Trooper Homepage
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Hi all,

    Seems like there was a discussion a couple of months ago about ordering a car with a hitch on it, but the new server software won't let me retrieve the whole discussion topic and won't let me search for the specific post where a keyword is located. Thus I can't find the discussion on hitches. So here's my question:

    Is the OEM hitch Port- or Dealer-installed? The Subie web site, Edmunds, Carpoint, Intellichoice, ... say it's Port-installed. I'm real close to ordering a VDC, but one of the most likely dealers is claiming it's dealer installed and wants $400 for it!!!!! Sticker is $295 for it.

    Seems like I remember someone having some trouble order a hitch, but wasn't sure what the resolution was. Anyone know? Was there a recall? has it all been clarified?

    Thanks in advance,
    Theo
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    My dealer charges the invoice price on any of those options that could be dealer installed, if you order them directly from the factory (he doesn't really trust the prep shop)

    So to answer, yes, it's a Port Option, and they shouldn't charge you much more than the $295 it's listed at.

    -mike
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Went scrolling back through this forum and found the post by Jaymoose on about Oct. 5 having trouble with ordering a PIO hitch. A little later Patti M. stated that there was indeed a "ship hold" due to weld problems. Anyone know if this has since been resolved? Did I read some time that Jaymoose got a hitch from HiddenHitch instead of OEM?

    Thanks,
    Theo
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Good Morning. It is port installed. I believe the hold has been lifted, but I'll double check at work later today.

    Patti
  • jaymoosejaymoose Member Posts: 14
    Theo:

    Just to bring you up to date, when we ordered our 2001 OB Ltd a few months back, we were told that port-installed hitches were "temporarily" unavailable, apparently due to a quality control problem from the part vendor. The dealer offered the option of ordering an after market hitch for us and installing it, but this isn't something they normally do, and the price was higher than the $295 you've seen quoted for the port-installed hitch. The folks at SOA suggested that the dealer should be willing to install a hitch for the same price as the port-installed option, but I couldn't get the dealer to see it that way, so I ordered the car without the hitch.

    Subsequently, I ordered and installed a Hidden Hitch (from 1-800-HITCH-IT). The price was considerably less than the Subaru hitch (about $150 comes to mind, including the wiring), they pay the postage, and the whole package was at the house about 3 days after I called. The toughest part of installation was unbolting a few parts from the underside that the hitch needs to go "underneath", but the whole operation only took about 2 hours for me and a friend once we got going. The hitch bolts right on to the body, and you need a good torque wrench to tighten the bolts (they needed lots more tightening to get to spec than I would have given them "by feel").

    The only other "trick" is that no one seemed to know where the electrical wiring harness for the trailer lighting was located in the vehicle. Turns out, it's on the passenger side accessible under the cargo space flooring. The Hidden Hitch documentation had it located behind the driver's side tail light access port.

    One other nice thing about the Hidden Hitch is that... it's really quite hidden when not in use!

    Hope this helps.

    --Jay
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Jay, Patti,
    Thanks for your responses!!!

    A few months ago on the Subaru web site on the News page, there was a blurb about Subaru making a retrofit available to disable the passenger air bag. Is that now standard in the MY2001 vehicles, is the retrofit still being offered, or did they give up on that concept altogether?

    Thanks in advance,
    Theo
  • maikiimaikii Member Posts: 8
  • maikiimaikii Member Posts: 8
    I am done with the research and now ready to buy my Forester S Premium in black with 5 speed. It looks like I'll have to order it. Has anyone had positive (or negative) experiences with dealers in the South Florida area? I am willing to travel within the state for the right price and buying experience. Thanks in advance.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If you go to the Fitzgerald site below, you see they have dealership in Clearwater Florida. Click on the Florida button. We bought two Subarus from their Rockville Maryland dealership.

    The Fitzgerald site lists all their current inventory, along with options, vin #, and their rock-bottom prices.

    I can't speak to the Florida dealer, as to the buying experience, but our experience with the Rockville store was excellent.

    http://www.fitzgeraldautomall.com/

    Bob
  • soon2bsubeesoon2bsubee Member Posts: 137
    My wife got her 2001 Legacy GT at Fitzgerald in Clearwater;did most of the shopping online...we shopped all 3 dealers here in South FL (Accardi, Delray, Wm. Lehman)...didn't get good prices. A bit of a ride from the Ft. Lauderdale area...she flew to Tampa on SouthWest ($65 - 70) and drove back..the car was very comfortable..
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Good Morning. The hitches are okay to go. The only remaining problem is supply. The vendor has been approved to role with production. The first batch was just to fill back orders. Now, they are working hard to get a supply going. They should be readily available within a week or so. We all appreciate your patience, but it's better to release something right than to wait for problems to crop up.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Good Morning, Theo! We still do not have SOA on/off switches. With our demand being pretty light, it is hard to get a vendor to pay attention to our needs. However, if you go to NHTSA's web site, they can direct you to aftermarket suppliers.

    There are some places that will refuse to install them due to liability concerns. We cannot require that a dealer put them in. The NHTSA site does have a list of places that will do installations.

    If you need more info., give me a call and I'll see if I can isolate some sites where they are available. Of course, we cannot "okay" these devices because we haven't tested them out on our cars, but make sure that the company you select offers their own warranty/guarantee on it.

    Hope your shopping is going well!
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Do any of them fit the Legacy sedan? I've perused a few web sites but they all seem to be specific to the wagon.

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Anyone know a dealer in the NJ or the NYC area that does actual work on a saturday as opposed to just oil changes? My buddy can't afford to take off work and needs to get his CE light looked at, and none of the dealers around here do loaners or work on saturdays. Thanks in advance for the help.

    -mike
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Thanks Patti for the info on the air bags and hitches!!!!!! Sounds like ordering a PIO hitch should no longer be a problem.

    The air bag switch demand info leads to another question: With the new second-generation air bags now in the MY 2001 OB's can a (60+lb, 4'4") child be seated safely in the front passenger seat w/o a switch? If so, then a switch would be pointless for us. The only reason we'd want it is for taking a car full (4) of kids when our son's class has a field trip.

    Thanks again all (especially Patti!),
    Theo
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    After checking out the NHTSA site, I found the brochure on air bags . After reading that I realize that there is no need for an air bag switch in my case.

    Thanks again Patti!
    Theo
  • maikiimaikii Member Posts: 8
  • maikiimaikii Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for the responses. I've just ordered my 5 speed Black Forester S Premium from Fitzgerald Countryside in Clearwater, Florida. I got a great price and the salesperson, Carl Anderson, was a pleasure to deal with. The local South Florida dealers were not willing to deal. However, since I live in Miami I will need a local dealer for service. Any good (or bad)experiences with William Lehman in Hollywood or Eddie Accordi in Pompano Beach? Now the hard part (waiting 6 to 8 weeks) begins...
  • soon2bsubeesoon2bsubee Member Posts: 137
    Carl was our salesman also. I don't know about Lehman...they are in Miami on the county line and we are in Coral Springs....we will probably use Accardi..their Subie guy is Morris, who said he had been a service mgr up north. All 3 local dealers are multi brand. Accardi is the closest to us, but we haven't taken the car to them yet (it is only a month old and not currently driven; I have to sell my old car first .
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Just wanted to let you all know that I have finally ordered that VDC. It will be in no later than the last week of Feb.

    I am getting it from Schmidt Imports in Sterling, CO. They were easily the best price and Jack was very nice and and accommodating. They have not ordered a VDC before, so did not know much about it. But that is OK - I have all of you for education and information!!! BTW, John Elway West would not even talk for less than MSRP. Very abrupt: "They are selling for MSRP only."

    Mtnshopper: if you want the details of my experience, drop me a line. Subaru is offering 3.9% for 24 months right now which is quite attractive, but it ends Feb. 28.

    Thank you, Patti, for all of the info and encouragement!!!!

    I'll post more later,

    Theo
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Congratulations Theo! Yes, you know where to go for questions.:-) When my wife got her '99 OB, the dealer had just started selling Subaru's. I had to show them some things in the brochure when it came to options.
    Dennis
  • tshadletshadle Member Posts: 38
    Good morning,
    I ordered a VDC back in Sept. from a dealer in S. PA. The options I picked were the mirror, the alarm and the air filtration (same as the Bean). Also the spoiler, gate bar, trailer hitch and diff. protector.
    I was told the car would be in around Thanksgiving. The holidays came and went and no news, not even a phone call. I was getting ready to go through the hassle of comparison shopping the other dealers in the area. After reading some of the posts here I decided to contact the salesman (who is the owner of the dealership).
    He said "I didn't forget about you." He said he has yet to get a VDC on his lot and that getting a VDC from the factory with options on it was like pulling teeth. He mentioned the trailer hitch in particular. I had seen only one VDC on the lot closest to us. I drove by again last night and it was gone. I know they are hard to get.
    So, he said he would get the VDC in as soon as possible and put the options I chose on at the dealership. He said it would be there in another two to four weeks, five weeks tops, which would put my wait around 16 weeks or more. I'm still not sure if I should just wait or start the whole comparison shop thing again for new vehicle plus trade-in. I guess then I'll have to wait another 6 to 8 instead of 4 to 5 plus pay more money. This pisses me off!
    Tom S.
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Tom,

    You should have had your VDC early last November. Your "sold order" (w/deposit) should have taken precedence and been delivered to you before any of the area dealers got any in stock for their inventory. I believe that Subaru has a policy of giving priority to "Sold orders" over inventory orders. 6-8 weeks is the standard quote. One wrinkle is that in October there was a ship hold on hitches. That has since been cleared up and they are starting to move (look back about 10 posts at Patti's post). Other than the gate bar, mine has all of the options you mentioned. Before ordering, my dealer checked with the regional Soob rep that he could order it all. "you may have to install the cargo net and hitch" was the only thing the rep told him. Based on Patti's info, only the cargo net (tough ;-) will be installed by the dealer.

    Here in Colorado, we had (at last check) about 38 VDCs in stock at dealerships w/in 100 miles of where I live. Either your dealer is uninformed (lazy) or he's pulling your leg. If you left a check with him, I'd go get it and take your business somewhere else. BTW, through comparison (or bid) shopping, you should be able to pay much less than MSRP for an order. Clear back in Sep. they should have given you a huge break to order sight-unseen. It costs extremely little for them to execute that kind of sale and they get the "earn & turn" credit for it, to say nothing of holdback. There seems to be a big resistance among Soob dealers to order w/hitch. They seem to be afraid of having to sell one off their lot if the buyer backs out of the order.

    My $.02+,
    Theo
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tom: If you don't feel like that dealer kept you in the loop, I'd de-loop him and find another one that is more interested in your business.

    Jay's post above tells you the importance of a good torque wrench. I also installed a hitch, and found the bolts were way, way overtightened to begin with.

    So my experience was the opposite of his, i.e. I used far less strength than I thought was required to torque the bolts for the hitch properly.

    Bottom line: get a good torque wrench with a long handle.

    -juice
  • sschumersschumer Member Posts: 19
    Earlier this week my wife and I picked up her new 2001 Subaru Forester S. I wanted to take a moment to share how pleased I was with this decision, and the positive buying experience involved. A couple of months ago I set out looking for a replacement for my wife's 1992 Honda Accord EX Wagon -- which has served us (and our two young sons, now ages 10 and 8) extremely well through 220,000 miles. We were looking to buy outright again, and the buying criteria was clear. In priority order, it was: reliability, safety -- based largely on all-wheel drive and air bags offered, cargo space, gas mileage, key features that had to include among other things a moonroof and leather interior, and price. Based on this, another Honda Accord Wagon would have hit the mark (except for the all-wheel drive). But since Honda no longer makes wagons, I began researching other small wagons and small SUV's. I spent a couple of months going through Consumer Reports, Consumer Guide, The Car Book, and a host of Internet sites that included Edmunds, Cars.com, Car and Driver.com, CarReview.com and others. What I learned was the Subaru Forester was far and away the best choice for us. It is clearly a better overall product than either the Toyota RAV-4, Honda CR-V, Mazda Tribute or Ford Escape among small SUV's. What really set the Forester apart was its consensus top-of-the-class rating by Consumer Reports, Consumer Guide and The Car Book; its proven
    reliability; excellent customer satisfaction; all-wheel drive from most experienced manufacturer, along with a viscous limited slip rear differential; highest HP & torque 4-cylinder engine; best-of-class crash rating; best-rated handling and ride; larger cargo space; and 60 month/60,000 mile major components warranty. Key features that were also important to us but pretty much comparable to its competition were the 4-wheel ABS & disc brakes, side impact door beams, side airbags (except the RAV-4), moonroof (except for the CR-V, which doesn't offer one and can't have one installed -- Honda says they have to remove a roof beam, which would negatively affect the structure of the car body) and leather interior, gas mileage, price, heated seats, ability to use regular gas, a full-size spare, heated power mirrors, loaner cars for overnight service while under warranty and door-to-door shuttle service thereafter . Although I have to admit even the little things -- like the de-icing front wiper, integrated window antenna, multiple storage compartments, a rubber cargo area tray, subfloor storage, a dimming rear view mirro with electronic compass, and the easiest-to-open rear door (especially when compared to the CR-V) -- were advantages over the competition as well. I never would have bought the Ford Escape or Mazda Tribute -- neither companies have good reliability records overall, and these products are in their first year of production. The President of Mazda happens to be an old friend of mine, so I knew if I wanted the Tribute I could get a great deal. It
    wouldn't have been worth it.

    I'll also tell you we considered a few wagons -- with the Subaru Outback and Volkswagen Passat coming out on top. Here, my wife and I simply preferred the SUV-style over the Outback wagon. And while the Passat wagon is a highly-rated vehicle, to get what we got with the Forester would have meant spending an additional $4,000 to get all-wheel drive, forcing us into the 6-cylinder model with much poorer gas mileage and a requirement to use much more expensive premium gas. All in all, I can't get over the outstanding combination the Subaru Forester offers in terms of reliability, safety, features and value.

    With all this, I still had just a bit of hesitation before making the final buying decision because neither my wife or I had ever owned a Subaru. This is where Al Rowe, our salesman, came in. His professionalism, knowledge and straightforwardness in dealing with both of us made the difference. In sales myself -- 20 years with IBM as a salesman, sales manager and now sales executive -- I've learned a thing or two about salesmanship and the right way to earn a customer's business. Al Rowe represented Subaru very well. We expect this to be just the start of a long-term, positive relationship with Subaru of Morristown, New Jersey as we need to service our Forester along the way -- and look for our next car!
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Steven- Wow! What a great write-up. Are you sure you don't work for SOA's PR dept? If not, they should pay you a commission! In any case, congratulations of your Forester and hope it provides you with years of enjoyment. I hope you'll stay on as a regular Subaru Crew member.

    Frank P.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Excellent commentary, and welcome to the Subaru Crew!

    Bob
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