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Comments
Has anyone verified with any of the widely-available payment calculators what their payment should be vs. what they are actually paying?
You can check it with the "PeopleFirst.com" payment calculator on the Edmunds front page, or MS Excel's PMT() function, or Quicken's Planning feature's loan calculator or CarPoint, or any of a number of other web sites.
I am supposed to take delivery of my vehicle in the next 7 days. I called the finance person at the dealership to verify the payment calculations. When she told me what the payment on the "3.9%APR" incentive financing would be it actually worked out to be 4.14% APR. I asked her to go through the numbers with me. They all verified except the payment amount and total interest paid. She claimed that "it is the program that Subaru is using to calculate payments. They must be using a different algorithm." Subaru has actually sub-contracted financing to Primus. I checked my calculation in Excel with about 8 different payment calculators, and they all agreed with each other to the penny, and not with her.
Anyone else seeing this. Unfortunately, small symptoms usually belie deeper problems (with integrity?). Is Primus trying to fleece Subaru's customers? Does Subaru already know about this? The Truth-in-Lending Act requires that an APR be uniform, so the payment calculation must match. I told Patti about it and she's looking into it.
What has been your experience?
Theo
I am getting my second Subaru this weekend (Outback Sedan) and I will be more careful.
-mike
Cheers,
-wdb
-mike
Congrats.
-juice
Turns out to have been a simple lack of understanding of the calculation method on the part of the finance person at the dealership. Their salesman (yes that's singular) reminded her what the difference was. Their financing software is configured to default to a 45-day period from purchase to first payment, instead of the more conventional 30-day. It then amortizes the additional 15 days interest over the entire period of the loan. This is usually almost imperceptible, except that I'm financing a VDC for 3.9% for 24 months, so the difference is accentuated.
Sooo, the lesson: Check your numbers. If they don't match, ask questions, starting with "What is the period before the first payment is due?" If it's not 30 days, ask them to re-figure it on 30 days, and it should match.
Thanks again Patti!
Juice: ask your banker if he cares about the numbers!! ;-)
Theo
So I guess my APR is -3% or so. :-)
-juice
-mike
I really believe that great customers cause great dealer relationships. So, pat yourself on the back too!
Patti
-juice
When Subaru offers 3.9%, and the credit union is paying more than that on savings, does it really make sense to pay cash? Now, if Subaru was offering a substantial rebate in lieu of below-market financing, it would be a different story. In essence, either one is a means of lowering the effective price to move more vehicles.
You're right, though, in general it is not the best fiscal management to borrow money on a depreciable asset. We have very much enjoyed not having a car payment for the last 9 years.
Theo
I've been considering an Outback for a couple of years, but now it's finally time! This will also be my first Subaru...
I drove a VDC last weekend & was hooked.
Anyway, I have many questions (or at least a few).
I'm shopping in Michigan--Bay City to be exact, but am willing to go 100-150mi if necessary for a decent price. Any experience with MI dealers?
I also checked out the Fitzgerald Auto Mall site for their prices. Someone mentioned in an earlier post about purchasing a car elsewhere & having it delivered... If someone has info about that I would like to know more. Does Fitzgerald's do that?
Any other nuggets you guys have to offer would also be appreciated.
Thanks -- Christina
If you're willing to travel a bit north of Chicago for a VDC, try calling Elmer Hansen at Liberty Subaru (Libertyville, IL>) The phone is 847.362.2683. They had 3 VDCs in stock as of last week. Elmer is a fine gentleman, exceptionally knowledgeable about Subaru and truly a pleasure to work with.
If you want more information, feel free to let me know. By the way, I am NOT connected with the dealership in any way nor do I receive anything from them when recommending a customer.
Good luck in your search.
Don
share your experience when you do buy? I would
like to get an idea of who in MI will give a good deal
on a Subie. I live in Haslett, MI and will be buying in
October of this year and there is only 1 Subie dealer in Lapsing.
It is William Auto World and they do have a web-site
at http://www.williamsautoworld.com/. I am looking for
other Subaru dealerships in Michigan to deal with. I have
test driven at William and ad Goodman is a very nice
salesman.
When you insert a URL, it seems to double-space. Any tips?
-juice
Agree with you on financing. We weren't going to buy now and were only going to pay cash. That all changed with incentives and savings rates.
Christina,
I live in Colorado and did talk to the people at Fitz. If you order a car, they can have it delivered to a local dealer. Call a local dealer and ask them what their "Courtesy Delivery" fee is. In Ft. Collins, CO, it was $250. Fitz has VDC's listed for $200 over invoice and Beans for $100 over invoice now. They seem to be familiar with doing long-distance deals. They'll order for the same price as their Inet price, invoice + $200.
We have 13 Subie dealerships within 110 miles. Schmidt Imports in Sterling, CO, (100 miles) is who we went with. Small town, small dealership, first VDC for them, good price, good attitude. Pick it up next Wed.
HTH,
Theo
If it double-spaces...
Go to "edit copy" and you will notice that there will a (or something that looks like that) at the end of the last line—delete that.
Also... the next paragraph space will also have a (or something that looks like that), delete that too. That should do it.
Note: Those marks to be deleted are shortened from what I posted. When I posted the actual marks, they didn't show up.
Bob
Good luck on your car hunt.
KarenS
Host
Owner's Club
Anyway its rougly 250 miles to the closest dealer from my home in San Angelo (pop. 95,000), so I went to work on the net armed with Edmunds knowledge. I negotiated with 6 dealers spread across the state and finally North park Subaru in San Antonio, agreed to $100 over invoice, with a guarantee in writing there would be no "hidden" costs upon delivery and none of that extra dealer profit carp like window etching, pin stripes, rust roofing (yea, like we need that here), etc.
The cost without TTL for my S (5speed) Blue Ridge Pearl with premium sound III, feature groups III&IV, exterior appearance package, brush guard, and diff. protector was $22907 . We completed everything via fax.
I firmly believe the net is the way to negotiate, especially if you cannot easily travel to different dealerships. Subaru's homepage provides all the dealer info you need and most replied within 24 hours of my contact...nice. The downside is that it will probably take 4-8 weeks for my "ship to come in" literally. I'll keep y'all up to date.
rus
I love Austin though...it just doesn't fit the Texas norm, which can be a good thing. Out here in San Angelo its F-150's, Suburbans, and of course Cadillac's & Buick's with grill guards. I'm gonna love blastin' away from'em at the stop lights with my Forester, nothing drives and handles quite like it.
rus
Which WRX did you order, sedan or wagon, 5spd or auto? What color? Any options? I ordered a silver WRX wagon 5-spd w/sec pkg, center armrest ext, and auto dimming mirror/compass (I have this on my 00' OB Ltd and love it) for retail. You're doing good if you can find a dealer that is willing to sell at retail and not mark up. I'm hoping that my salesguy can get me into the first allocation, especially since my 00' OB Ltd is the trade-in and I'm currently driving it like a grandma accordingly!
Stephen
The Soob population in Texas just went up 50%! There are now 3 of them!
Scott: you're in for a ball. We were able to check one out at the Philly Show, which is near SoA Headquarters. Patti gave us a private tour and they even cranked the engine up for us, albeit briefly.
I have dozens of photos for you to salivate over:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1400062&Auth=false
The best thing I can say is that after crawling in and out of it for several hours, I saw no good reason NOT to buy one.
-juice
Also, can you get a ski/rack for the sedan?
Thanks for your help. I took my first test drive today, but it was not the limited...I like it, but want to know the best place to buy.
Tex...
Subaru resells Yakima racks, but they're attachments that make use of the roof rails on wagons.
I did have a cheapier ski carrier for my previous car, and it did the trick but wasn't as sturdy. The manufacturer was "Allen" and it was cheap.
Try your local ski shop - I'm sure there are better choices in CO than in MD!
-juice
Heuberger in Colorado Springs is not known for having the best Cust Svc or prices. Haven't dealt with the dealership in Pueblo, but in general the smaller the town, the better the response I got in shopping for an OB. The exception was Burt in Denver who was courteous and up-front. King in Loveland and Hickey in Silverthorn were fairly decent on price.
I ended up ordering in Sterling from Schmidt Imports even though it is about 100 miles away. Small town, nice folks, good price, should be getting the car day after tomorrow :-)
Inventories in Colorado are high, and there are lots of dealerships, so the dealers shouldn't be as arrogant as they were when I was shopping. BTW, there is a $225 advertising fee added to most Front Range dealership invoices, but not Schmidt.
Check Fitzgerald Automall for real-world prices and call Heuberger to see what a "Courtesy Delivery Fee" would be. I used the sum of those two numbers as a benchmark of what I could buy a car for. If they weren't anywhere close, I'd throw out that number as what I could get one for. They'd either come down or say "good luck".
HTH,
Theo
If you don't mind I'd like ask if you shopped in person or over the net. I have noticed all the sites have dealer quotes, is it worth asking for one or better to deal in person.
Thanks again.
Tex
You probably already know this:
The Subaru.com web site has a dealer search tool. You punch in your zip code and it tells you where the nearest dealers are. You can keep going in concentrically further distances. It lists the contact info and you can look at the inventory of most of the dealers right there.
Using that information, I'd phone the contacts listed and tell them that I planned on ordering within a week and I'd like to offer them the chance to compete for my business. If they were interested, I'd tell them the option codes of what I wanted. John Elway West in Golden was not even interested. Some would call back, some gave me a number right then. I'd let them know if they were even close. Hickey in Silverthorn and Valley in Longmont called me back with lower quotes. Hickey was quite close on the re-quote.
It was sometimes a little unnerving, but worth it in the long run.
Other people have reported fairly good success with email. However, I wanted to move quickly (when I was ready), and some of the dealerships that I wanted to include are a little 'Net challenged: Laramie, Cheyenne, Greeley, Sterling.
HTH,
Theo
Scott
My dealer did well by me on the trade-in. According to Edmunds TMV, my 00' OB Ltd wagon w/auto and 10650 miles is worth $20,399 in the Seattle area. We calculated that I may have about 12,000 miles on my car at time of trade-in and they are giving me $ 20,000.
Good luck on your order and trade-in.
Stephen
Qsubaru@aol.com
Ordered a bike rack last summer - came on-time & at cost. Wheels are next
Cheers!
Paul
You can also call Darlene for quick service at 800-287-1281.
-juice
;-)
-juice
I used many (if not all) of the suggestions I got here...
I went to my local dealer (Thelen, Bay City MI) to test drive 1 1/2 weeks ago. They only had one VDC; not the color I wanted. The sales person was a pretty typical sales person. "These are hard to keep in stock/ Sell as soon as we get them in/ Etc."
I checked through the Subaru web site for other vehicles in the color I wanted (Wintergreen!) & found one in Lansing/Williams Auto World.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch (sorry), I checked at the Fitzgerald site for their prices. They're selling VDC's for invoice & could deliver one for approx $700 to Michigan. Or they could order one for me & add $250 courtesy delivery to my local dealer. I didn't really want to wait for one to be ordered, even though it would have been cheaper (last I checked the special financing expired at the end of Feb, but who knows if they would have extended it with the lowered interest rates... I didn't want to chance it).
Last Friday I checked back with Thelen about getting the color I wanted. He said he could check around & see if they could trade with another dealer, but he didn't sound very enthusiastic about it & didn't offer to get back with me with his results, etc.
So I phoned Williams on Saturday with the offer of $700 over invoice on the Wintergreen VDC they had in stock. That made the price just under Edmund's TMV. They took that price with little consideration (not immediately, but they didn't counter offer at all). Of course this makes me think I should have shot lower... but oh well, hindsight being 20:20 and all.
Anyway, I picked it up Monday night. The people at Williams Auto World were very thorough, going over the car, features, and all that.
Sometimes I feel a twinge of guilt about not giving the sales rep at Thelen more of a chance, but not too much. Maybe if I could have talked price more specifically he could have met my offer, but I just didn't get that impression - especially with having to trade to get the color I wanted. And it is Wednesday & he hasn't called me back, so he obviously hasn't tried finding a car for me (it took me all of 5 minutes on the web). This is the only contact I've had with Thelen, so I can't say if this is just this sales rep or not. Sooner or later I'm probably going to have to take the car there to get serviced after all... Has anybody had problems going locally to get your car serviced when you bought it elsewhere??
Sorry to be so long-winded!
Tonight we're supposed to get freezing rain & sleet, so I guess I'll get to try it out!
Christina
And no I don't represent Costco, but did recently buy a life time quantity of toilet paper.
You should be able to service yours at any Soob dealer. If you don't feel like you're being treated right, call to complain (the 800 number is on Subaru's web site and in your owner's manual).
Costco is great. I haven't used their service, but I too have enough toilet paper for a small country.
-juice
And the buckets the laundry detergent come in are real handy around the house!
Anybody use their gasoline? Good, bad, indifferent? New Costco here in Spokane has pumps now... haven't gotten there yet - waiting for the "let's go to the new store" crowd to thin out a bit... still have TP left from my last visit, but I better check the coffee inventory!
Cheers!
Paul
Drew uses their gas regularly (up in Canada). The Costco near me doesn't pump gas, but the one in Laurel does and I've used it a few times. Price is great, as you'd expect.
-juice
When Susan went to pick up her Legacy GT in December at Fitzgerald in Clearwater, Florida, the salesman met her at the airport in HER car(!). He said that the sales general manager made him take it...as they were pulling out from the passenger pick-up lane, there was a car in front of them. The saleman was driving, and slowly inched forward...and forward...and forward. He then bumped the car in front of them. When they returned to the dealership to do the paperwork (the car now has an extra 50 miles on it from the airport trip), they saw that there were now 3 scratches in the bumper!!!!. They promised they would pay for any repairs and repainting, so I have spent quite a bit of time researching places here...and I have to take off a day to get it taken care of.
Susan was transferring my old tags to the new car and Fitzgerald said they would do all the paperwork. A month later, still no paperwork; I call up and the woman taking care of that stuff said she had FORGOTTEN , and would do it right away. She sent out a brand new plate from Pinellas County...when we got it, I called again as we were expecting just the paperwork for my old tags...it turns out they are 5 years old and in Florida, plates are changed every 5 years...however, we did not want out-of-county plates (target for thieves here in Broward County). After another call, I get a promise to send out a new county-less plate and a prepaid Fed-Ex envelope to return the Pinellas county plate. Well it is now 3 phone calls and three weeks later, and still no plate...talk about crappy customer service ...what should I do...I am so frustrated......
Too bad. Sounds like they really aimed to please at first, but since then they fell asleep at the wheel.
-juice