Subaru Crew - Future Models

miksmi

Edmunds.locke2c == i Club.ColinL, yes? Saw your post on i Club this morning but never correlated the to before. Of course if this isn't the case then you'll have no idea what I'm talking about.

Edmunds.miksmi == i Club.miksmi == Mike Smith

locke2c

Yes, that's me. Doesn't my snappy attitude give it away?

-Colin

aling1

From the press report:

"The new Subaru high-output H6-3.0 features an aluminum crankcase, double-overhead camshafts and four valves per cylinder. A direct ignition system uses an individual ignition coil for each cylinder, eliminating the need for a distributor and sparkplug wires. The engine displaces 2,999 cubic centimeters (183 cubic inches) and produces 212 horsepower at 6,000 rpm and 210 lb.-ft. of peak torque at 4,400 rpm. By 2,200 rpm, the Subaru H6-3.0 engine is already producing a substantial 174 lb.-ft. of torque, providing quick response at lower speeds.

The H6-3.0 produces nearly 30 percent more horsepower and torque than the 165-horsepower
2.5-liter H-4 in the Outback Limited model, yet is only 20 millimeters (0.8-inch) longer than that four-cylinder engine. Like all Subaru models the new Outback H6-3.0 models run on regular fuel, but 91 octane is recommended for maximum performance."

rsholland

Subaru decided to market two H-6 models that (to me) seem compete with one another? They're both so similar. Wouldn't it have made more sense if they offered an H-6 Legecy GT (now) instead of two H-6 Outback wagons? Also, I wonder if the current H-4 Outback Limited will continue?

Of the the two H-6s, I'm leaning towards the VDC model, rather than the LL Bean model.

Bob

aling1

With all of the advanced traction systems, I wouldn't even think twice about getting the VDC over the L.L. Bean, which frankly doesn't seem that great to me. I have experienced these systems first hand, and so I know how valuable they are.

Now, if they offered the VDC system on the L.L Bean, that would be a different situation altogether.

aling1

An owner's account of how ESP and 4ETS probably saved him from an accident.

http://www.escribe.com/automotive/european/mbmc/m4608.html

francophile

>I think it'll take the H-6 in a GT for me to >upgrade.

A couple of turbos hanging off the 4-banger would do it, too .

Another GT fan,
WDB (hmmm -- maybe I should make that AWDB?)

lurker4

Bob: I too prefer the VDC, without hesitation. I think SoA would be insane to discontinue the H4 OB's and I assume they will continue to sell more H4 OB units year over year. Why 2 H6 OB's? I too think the 6 belongs in the Legacy GT, but Soob already knows how many people would buy that car and it's a small number of in-the-know enthusiasts (they should put the engine in Legacies in MY 2002--but I think a 230hp 2.0l turbo for 2002 has already been announced, so maybe they won't). SoA has a great marketing vehicle (no pun intended) in the OB, and the LLB partnership makes the LLB OB a foregone conclusion. The question then is why not include VDC in the LLB or offer it as an option in LLB or all Limiteds? I assume their marketing gurus had their reasons, but marketing is a Black Art to me. I do find it kind of cool that they have one specially badged car (VDC) that's their advanced technology showcase.

miksmi

A couple of turbos hanging off the 4-banger would do it, too .

Well, that would do it for me too, WDB Actually, I think I would prefer a turbocharged H-4 (like that in the WRX) to a NA (or even turbro) H-6 on a GT. Woops I forgot, they already make that it -- it's called the Legacy B4 RSK. I like power but I'm somewhat grounded with a desire for reasonably good fuel economy and I think the turbo H-4 of the WRX is a reasonable compromise. I realize I'm in the minority with this opinion.

Bob, I too am perplexed by the seemingly competitive LLB & VDC models. And I'm with Drew, VDC over LLB. Exciting news.

..Mike

abhidharma

I love what I'm hearing about the new Subies, but I think SOA is off the mark by naming their flagshift model after a technological advance that will be very commonplace in the not so distant future. The VDC name will sound dated very quickly, and will ultimately be remembered as a "one-off" model, disconnected from the rest of the line.

I think SOA should have put their energies into the Legacy GT line: then the Legacy name would become synonymous with continuing technological advances. The Legacy, with its lower stance, is also better suited to make the most of the 45/55 rear bias for enhanced performance driving feel.

And yeah, a turbo would be sweet!

Randy

ateixeira

Actually, I believe is was Nissan that was first with the open cab concept truck.

I too would give the nod to the VDC model, since it sounds like the LLBean model is more into cosmetic upgrades. My guess is the folks here will pick the VDC, but the mass market will pick the LLBean for the name recognition.

The stock OB carries 21.2 lbs per horse, while the H6 carries 17.5 lbs per horse. Figure about the same 17% or so improvement in acceleration, maybe 2 seconds or so too 60 mph.

It won't be class leading acceleration, but it will be competitive. I'm surprised the torque peaks so high (4400rpm), but they say it produces 174 lb-ft at 2200rpm, or more than the 2.5l does at its peak (sweet!).

Hmm, no mpg stated. Maybe 20-25? Thankfully premium isn't mandatory.

Love that steering wheel. Though overall it feels so upscale the price will likely be higher than I was guessing (I think Colin was right on target there).

Though I did make the call on the Impreza: the 2.2l is gone. 2.5l and 2.0l turbos only, and 230hp is better than the 205hp that some mags predicted. That's sweet, even though it's not a full blown WRX, it ought to be enough for US roads, and a nice base for mods for I-Clubbers.

Hmm, a 6 speed next year? I'm salivating.

-juice

ateixeira

By the way, I fully agree that the GT would be an even better showcase for the new engine. I would have preferred the LLBean Outback and a GT w/VDC. It almost seems more appropriate that way.

Though I'm sure SoA's number crunchers could prove me wrong. No doubt the Outback is their gem, and clearly they focused on their strongest model.

A Turbo GT would be sweet, and something I would consider buying (wagon, please). But keep in mind at that price level a 6-cylinder is almost mandatory. Smaller engined turbos get creamed in the marketplace, even when they are faster and more efficient that 6 (and 8!) cylinder competitors.

-juice

aling1

Forget a B4 turbo, how about a B6 turbo? Now that would be nice! After all, the B6's engine block is only slightly larger than the B4's and it should be too difficult to develop a turbo charger to work with the larger engine. Of course, they could also strap on the ST-X's Supercharger to the B6. Now that's another idea. In any case, the non normally aspirated engines could be competition with the Volvo & Saab light and high pressure turbo wagons and sedans.

Drew

aling1

Juice,

Premium isn't mandatory, but if you want to squeeze out that 212 hp and max torque, you'll have to pay for the more expensive stuff. I'd gladly pay the premium for more performance, even if gas is at its current high price (64.9 cents/litre of regular gas - NOT its highest price so far, BTW). I'm already doing so with my other cars, so it wouldn't be too unusual for me.

ateixeira

I hear you, but at least the owner has a choice, which I think is good.

B6 with forced induction would be schweet. Even with only light boost, maybe 7-9 psi, would make a GT a stealthy sports sedan.

-juice

miksmi

Daniel, in <45</A>> you mentioned Subaru put a shroud on the H-6. What is the function of an engine shroud? It seems it would just get in the way of working on the engine and need removal before starting any work. As I am unencumbered with the answer, someone please enlighted a heathen. Thanks.

..Mike

PS - 45RandyClubs you took the words out of my mouth! Look at the VDC photo page 3 of the Outback H6-3.0 PDF and magnify it, say 125%. Note the badge below the left tail light:

Outback
H6-3.0

"H6" is clearly legible but I'm unsure about the next word; I think it's "-3.0" (which would mesh with text of the brochure). Bob, can you make out what it says with your fancy graphics programs? No mention of VDC in the badge (if my eyes aren't playing tricks).

So the official model names are:

Outback H6-3.0 L.L.Bean Edition
Outback H6-3.0 VDC

Not exactly catchy, at least to this enginerd.

aling1

I can't really make out the words either, but my guess is that it may be H6-VDC. If I bought that wagon, I may be tempted to buy a couple more of those badges and plaster them just above the "Outback" words on the body cladding on the front doors. At least it will not be mistaken for the 'regular' Outbacks. I noticed that there's also an extra badge in the front grill. But, I'm not sure if it is exclusive for the L.L Bean addition only.

BTW, how many of you like the different design of the alloy wheels on the H6 wagons? I for one, despise them and would go out of my way just to get the dealership to swap those wheels with the standard wheels from a B4 Outback Limited. This is just all in my humble opinion, of course.

The Momo designed steering wheel is nice, but it seems exactly the same (except for the wood trim) as the regular steering wheel. I wonder what's "Momo" about it besides the name (which doesn't appear anywhere on the wheel).

Drew

barresa11

My vote is for the wheels from the std Limited B4. I think that the new wheels on the 6cyl look too busy. Just my .02 (oh, yeah, and maybe because I own a 00 Ltd OB) :-)

miksmi

Drew, I don't care for the new Outback wheels either. I (and my wife) agree w/Stephen, the new ones are too busy. Of course, the only correct wheels are the GT wheels (Actually, I'm not sure if GT alloys would look right on the taller (profile) tires of the OB, but man are they schweet on a GT!)

I missed the badge on the front of the LL Bean. Upon further inspection of page 2 I notice (what looks like) an LL Bean badge between the front door and wheel well. On page 3 the VDC photo has something in the same spot. Don't know if the H-4 Outbacks have something there (like AWD).

..Mike

aling1

I seem to recall that previous generation Outbacks had the "Outback" word in the front grill. But these B6 wagons seem to have the word H6-3.0 there, leading me to believe that the words on the rear hatch may also be H6-3.0 as you suggested. This is just my guess though.

WRT the wheels, I like the ones on the GT and the B4 Outbacks, but I absolutely love the ones on the Japanese & Australian market Legacys.

Now, regarding the L.L Bean edition, this is what the Subaru press release states:

"The Outback L.L.Bean Edition shares the interior comfort features of the Outback H6-3.0 VDC model, without the McIntosh Audio stereo system. The L.L.Bean Edition also adds an auto-dimming rearview mirror with integrated digital compass, an air filtration system and a standard security system. Exclusive identification and comfort features include two-tone beige/brown leather-trimmed seats embossed with the L.L.Bean insignia, an "L.L.Bean Edition" badge on each front fender, and floor mats embroidered with the L.L.Bean logo."

Interesting because the auto-dimming mirror, air filtration system and security system can all be added to the H6 VDC Outback. The extra badging and the two tone leather upholstery are only small things to me. I'm sure that I can create a "fake" L.L Bean model by buying the exterior badging :-)

Drew

lurker4

Mike--Other than get in the mechanic's way and cover up the rat's nest of wires & Emission Control plumbing, the shroud doesn't do jack. The impression I got from C&D's New Car Guide was that most makers were slappng plastic shrouds over their engines because all the pneumatic plumbing looks unattractive, but that some of the shrouds look just as bad--they compared one to a dishwasher. They did say, however, that Subaru's boxer could use one.

I kinda like this one though--it's not too big, and it lets the intake manifold branches peek through and has that funky looking screen. Though there shouldn't be as many wires to cover with the direct ignition system(?)

BTW, I'm with everyone who doesn't like the new wheels--ugh. The 2000 wheels were already busier than I liked. The 98 wheels were just fine, and leave the gold at the anodizing shop.

rsholland

in the am, I'm taking an Amtrak to NY. Should make there shortly after the doors open at 11:00.

I've been to a number of NY Autos Shows before... and I'm certainly not going to miss this one. My report will follow shortly thereafter.

I tend to agree with those who feel that their are two H-6 Outbacks because Subaru feels it can make more $$ that way. I still think they could have combined the VDC and LL Bean into one vehicle (although it might be a bit too pricey for the intended market). Sooner or later that engine will make it into other vehicles.

I'm also excited by the prospect of the new Impreza being marketed as the "sport" vehicle as opposed to the "entry-level" vehicle which had been it's previous role.

Bob

aling1

Have fun at the show, and if perhaps you can have a look at let us know what exactly the badges on the front grill and on the rear hatch say on the L.L Bean and VDC wagon.

Drew

noclass

Pictures of the L.L. Bean and the Electra II Legacy can be seen at http:www.subaruclub.com

Garry

rsholland

Boy is this show large! And... it seems to be getting larger ever year. I know there was a lot of stuff I didn't see, because I was either too tired or I needed to get back home. As it was I spent at least 4 and a half hours there. Idealy, this show should be seen in a two-day segment. That way one can see and appreciate everything.

One more thing: the crowds were also huge. Just trying to get around and see vehicles was very tough -- not to mention trying to sit in vehicles. This was especially true around all the German brands. Those vehicles were almost impossible to see.

Anyway, on to the specifics:

Subaru: (you knew I'd start with this one)

Some surprises -- all good:

The new H-6 has a timing chain, and not a timing belt. No more belt changes at 60,000 miles Yes! They had a "cut-away" of the engine on display.

The front axle does NOT exit under the engine like I thought it would. It exits in the same old place, behind the engine.

The H-6 VDC model on display was a white pearl color. Very pretty. I believe Infiniti, Audi, and some other luxury brands have had a similar color for some time.

The badge in the grille and under the name Outback on the tailgate reads: " H6-3.0". On the front fender of the VDC it reads "VDC".

I picked up a brochure, which is the same as the PDF file which we all could download. It is an abbreviated brochure -- no colors, minimal features, etc.

The Subaru reps seem to think that the tow rating is unchanged from the current model (bad news for me!)

Both the LL Bean & the VDC had the same interior except the VDC has the MacIntosh audio system. Both had wood-toned trim on the console and dash. The LL Bean also had wood-tone trim on the power window switches. Both had map pockets on the back of the front seats, and a fold-down center armrest in the rear seat. I hope the map pockets and rear armrest make it into lesser Outbacks for 2001.

Prices (ballpark): $30K for LL Bean, a bit more for the VDC.

I was hoping for a 5-speed automatic, which is still not available. It's interesting to note that Subaru is now positioning these models against the Audi A4, Volvo Cross Country, and VW Passat 4-Motion -- all of which, have 5-speed automatics with tip-tronic capability. I guess they're counting on the extra HP of the Subaru to make up for that shortcoming.

Also, worth noting: There were no entry-level Subaru models on display. All were top-of-the-line versions of each model range. I'm wondering if the "L" (and Brighton) models will disappear from the Legacy lineup in the future. My earlier post (from the STi mailing list) indicated that the "L" may disappear from the Impreza lineup, with the RS 2.5 as being the base model. Only the Forester seems to be able to sell "L" models in any quantity.

The reps indicated that the H-6 models could arrive anywheres from late August - early October.

There was some mention that the H-6 might make it into the Forester at a later date.

OTHER MODELS:

2001 Rav4:
Very nice upgrade! And, in my opinion, very good looking. They got rid of those very uncomfortable door armrests, for a more conventional (and more comfortable) design. It still has a useless rear bumper.

2002 Highlander:
I swear, this vehicle looks like the offspring of an RX300 and a Forester. The styling is typically Toyota-bland, but should sell very well. It has a full-size spare tire, which is good. This vehicle could present the Forester (and Outback) some real competition in the sales department. It won't be on sale until next spring, so, Subaru has some time to prepare (upgrade!).

2001 Acura MDX:
Typical Honda/Acura bland styling. It's not bad looking, just bland. It has a 5-speed automatic (good), but no low range (bad). 235/65x17 tires standard. I don't know if it has a temp or full-size spare.

That's it for now. If anybody gets a chance to see the show, it's worth doing. Just bring a folding chair to rest. You'll need it at some point. If anybody has any specific questions regarding other new vehicles, I'll try to answer them as best I can.

Bob

rsholland

2001 Sequoia
Disappointment, in my opinion. I find the styling to be very awkward, and clumsy. No full-time 4WD available -- same unit as in Tundra. Split/removable 3rd seat is nice. Too bad they couldn't figure out some way to fold it into the floor like the Durango.

As far as I'm concerned, it broke little new ground in terms of engineering or features. However being a Toyota, I'm sure it will be reliable, powerful, and will sell like hotcakes.

2002 Q45
Best looking Infiniti sedan to date by far. It has everything but AWD.

2001 CRV Special Edition
Leather interior and some (very) minor cosmetic upgrades-- that's about it. Not worth the extra $$.

2002 Bravada
Better than model it replaces -- still doesn't do anything for me.

Pontiac Aztec
Many interesting features ruined by absolutely miserable styling. What was Pontiac thinking!?

Pontiac, can you say "Edsel"?

2001 Escape
Sure to be a success, as has been the Explorer. To me, this vehicle is exactly what the Forester should be from a size (actually wheelbase) standpoint. The body proportions are spot-on. Available 3.0 engine and 3500 pound towing capability -- which is what the Forester needs.

Dodge MaxxCab & GMC Terridine (sp?)
Great pickup concepts with many interesting features which I hope make it into production.

Back to Subaru:
No ST-X concept to be seen. The Soob folks thought it would steal some of the thunder from the new H-6 models.

Also, glad they're not using the word "Limited" in marketing the new H-6 models. That word is so over-used, that it means nothing anymore.

Bob

torek

... so perhaps the marketing people should start using "Unlimited"! :-)

Chris

aling1

All L.L Bean Outback wagons will receive 3 years of free scheduled maintenance. I guess this is part of the special L.L Bean care package that was mentioned. Currently, US MB/BMW/Audi (there may be more) offer 3 or 4 years free scheduled maintenance on their vehicles as well.

However, this is what I find rather interesting. Late model MB/BMW/Audi vehicles all have a flexible service system which means that the computers will monitor the oil quality, engine load, driving style, etc. and make recommendations as to when your next service is due.

It is because of this real-time system that service intervals can vary from about 10,000 kms to 18,000 kms. Currently, the FSS in my ML indicates that I have approximately another 13,000 kms to my next service. I did an unscheduled oil change (to Mobil 1 synthetic) at about 3800 kms and I'm now close to about 4600 kms. I switched to sythetic oil for piece of mind between the long service intervals. Part of my reasoning was because all BMW vehicles are also factory filled with fairly heavy viscosity BMW-spec synthetic oil (10W60??). BMW's switch to synthetic oil coincided with their introduction of the flexible service system. Strangely, new BMW M5 owners are reporting heavy oil consumption, but no such problems from AMG MB vehicle owners (all AMG high performance engines are factory filled with Mobil 1 0W40 synthetic).

Anyway, since the intervals are so spaced apart, these German vehicles likely to only have a few scheduled (free) services in their first 3 or 4 years. But, AFAIK, the Subies have no such flexible service system, meaning that Subaru will have to shell out more money since service intervals will be considerably shorter than that of the German vehicles. Then again, I'm sure that all of this was taken into the equation when pricing the L.L Bean model.

Drew

aling1

Shh...Performance West has already unveiled their Grand Cherokee Unlimited concept vehicle (which ironically is the only one in exisitance and hence truly "limited"). It's a high performance version of the ordinary Grand Cherokee. Have a look: http://www.trucktrend.com/apr99/jeep/jeep_f.html

miksmi

Hey thanks Daniel for explaining the (non-)purpose of the shroud.

Wow Bob, great NY show report! Thanks for the Sube and non-Sube run-down. Hope I can make it next year w/you! No ST-X, bummer. ..Mike

ateixeira

I'm so jealous, I was in New York just a short while ago, and I even went to the Javis Center!

All the specs sound good. I wonder what the street prices will be like. If the MSRP is $30k, presumably they'll settle at or around $27k, though I'm sure it'll take a while for the initial demand to subside.

Did you get any photos? I'd be particularly intersted the in engine cut-away.

-juice

aling1

L.L Bean interior


B6 engine

rsholland

I didn't bring a camera. However, the above picture of the engines appears to be the one I saw. It opens up so you can see the pistons, cams, etc.

Also, I just got an e-mail from Glenn (New Impreza web site), and he's pretty certain that the Legacy "L" and Brighton will be dropped. Whether it's 2001, or later, not sure. Also he was certain that the new Impreza would be offered in RS 2.5 sedan, wagon and Outback Sport. In addition the WRX will come in both sedan and wagon. He said there will not be a coupe. The base model for the Impreza will be the RS 2.5. He seems to have an inside track to future Soobs, especially the Impreza.

Bob

Bob

rsholland

about some of my earlier predictions about the new LL Bean model:

There is no hood scoop.
There is no monochromatic paint scheme.
There is no exiting of the front axle from under the engine.
I didn't expect two different models.

Bob

ateixeira

I love the steering wheel. Looks like it belongs on an expensive car (we'll wait 'til official pricing comes out to judge that).

The engine does seem quite compact. It's very short, but wide, as is mandated by a boxer layout. Still, I'm sure the packaging under the hood would be quite tight.

I long time ago I owned a Mustang Ghia straight size, and there was enough room to sit inside the engine compartment. That was a good thing, because you were in there all the time!

-juice

PS Bob: I'll bet there'll be a monochromatic scheme on the GT/6 when it arrives, but hood scoops only on forced induction models

rsholland

the extra weight of that engine. I know it's only .8" longer than the current H-4, but most of that extra 200 pounds that the H-6 has, is hanging out over in front of the front axle. It can't be good for handling. More reason to opt for the VDC model.

Neither vehicle had the hood open for view, but I'm sure Subaru did a neat packaging job.

I have mixed feelings about the wood/leather steering wheel. Yes, it looks beautiful, but I prefer a padded all-leather steering wheel from a function (and comfort) standpoint. This combining of wood and leather in the steering wheel seems to be the latest "rage/trend" for luxury car makers. It seems like everybody is doing it. I'm not convinced it's for the better.

Bob

locke2c

Now wait a minute, back when they were developing the H6, spy reports and other "insider" info said that it would be only a little longer and nearly the same weight as the 2.5L phase II H4. Since the "spies" were obviously right about the case length, why automatically assume that the 3.0L is 200lb heavier? I'm not going to make that conclusion until the data is there one way or the other.

By the way, the other "rumor" at the time was that they were also developing a new four cylinder with a shorter case as well.

-Colin

aling1

Bob, I'm with you on the split wood/leather steering wheel issue. Thankfully, none of my vehicles had them as standard equipment.

One added disadvantage (and this is somewhat of a safety issue) is that under some conditions, sunlight can reflect off the top of the steering wheel (specifically off of the shiny, good looking wood) and reflect into your eyes. When I drove a friend's rented Lincoln Navigator over a year ago, I was momentarily blinded (luckily it was on a straight highway) because of this.

Drew

ateixeira

Let's look at what else they added that could have added weight: different wheels (same size but busier), bigger brakes, air filter, VDC computer, 2 stage intake, dual stage muffler, auto climate control, rear arm rest, more audio equipment, steering wheel, liquid filled engine mounts.

Each of these may weigh little on their own, but as a group it adds up. C&D weighed an OB LTD at 3550 or so, so 3700 sounds about right.

On the other hand, some of these go along with the new engine.

Still, Bob's just being practical. I myself wouldn't mind a GT with the Boxer 6 w/VDC and the brakes, that's it. Keep the GT wheels even.

-juice

lucien2

Getting back to the WRX, rsholland mentions that it might arrive in wagon form. HELLO!? People, we need to nail down some MSRP's here! Despite the fact that there is NO budget for it, I may be persuaded to trade the OB in on such a thing! I've just been assuming here that the turbo would never make it into a U.S. wagon...now I have reason to yearn!

rsholland

I see you're another Marylander! For such a small state (and... not a state known for snow), this Subaru site is certainly well represented.

Re. WRX: Just passing on the word from Glenn, who seems to have a main line to key Soob folks in the know.

As to the extra weight, I can't help but think that the H-6 engine is heavier than the H-4. Maybe not the 200 or so pounds difference between it and a normal Outback Limited, but I would think 150 is not out of the question. The other extra weight is from other added content and reenforcement. The front brakes are indeed larger. I just compared the size (from my 2000 Outback brochure and my 2001 H-6 brochure). The size went from 10.7" to 11.4".

In any case, "any" extra weight hanging in front of the front axle is not good for handling.

As for prices... we'll just have to wait.

Bob

lucien2

Yup, funny isn't it how many of us there are, especially considering our modest annual snowfall. I wish we could find a way of getting together before the SCOA fall foliage tour....

aling1

Okay guys, I just scanned in the pictures of the misc. Subies that I took at the Pacific International Autoshow here in Vancouver, BC. I figured that this was probably the most appropriate place to post them for now. Feel free to copy any of them and post them on your webpage, Juice. Have a look.

Subaru Canada Rally team's WRX:




Subaru Forester cutout:




Much larger versions (160+ and 200+ kb) versions of both of the Forester cutout pictures can be seen here:
http://www.geocities.com/aling_1/Forester_cutout_1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/aling_1/Forester_cutout_2.jpg

A couple more pics to come later today. Enjoy!
Drew

lurker4

Bob-- add to your forward-weight observation the fact that the VDC omits the heavier rear LSD for an open diff, and maybe the yaw sensing will come in handy more often than we'd expect.

Does the 4ETS system involve any additional heavy components or is it mainly just the ABS parts using different software? Anyone know where the weight's coming from?

Dan

aling1

No, the 4 wheel traction control uses the existing ABS hardware to monitor and control each wheel. 4ETS is just another component of the VDC system. At most, all that would be needed for the entire system are a few sensors and a higher powered computer. This would add at most 5-10 pounds to the exisiting setup. The elimination of the rear LSD would be a significant weight savings.

kens

Drew,

Thanks for the great photos! I wish I could have seen the Forester cutouts in person. I like how they show off the shock towers -- pretty impressive.

aling1

You're welcome, Ken. The Forester was actually a moving display. All 4 wheels, driveshafts, the boxer engine, etc. were all moving (slowly, of course) just like they do in a real car. There was also a very knowledgable Subaru Canada technical rep there explaining the details of the vehicle (it was a 10 minute "lecture").

The rep was nice enough to ask everyone to move back (over his P.A system) so that I could snap the pictures. I didn't even ask him to do that! I just brandished my camera and he stepped away immediately (this was between the "lectures"). I thought that that was very nice of him. Even the BMW folks didn't do anything like that. In fact, I found them rather snobby (it figures, doesn't it? ). Also, in order to minimise costs (I guess), they were only handing out full-line brochures. No individual model brochures. Even Daewoo and Kia were handing out individual model brochures, and we all know about the crappy cars that they make!! Kia even had several internet stations with flat screen LCD panels!

They only had one '01 Forester S there, so it was locked and mounted on an elevated display. However, the rep. did unlock it for me to sit in it though. There were a couple of other MY2K Foresters (S and an L) for everyone to sit in. I also picked the rep's brain about the AWD systems and he was actually pretty surprised that I knew so much about the Subaru AWD systems. Most people don't care about it, as long as it works and they don't get stuck in the snow

kens

Yes, I agree that most people really don't know or care too much about AWD systems as long as it keeps them from getting stuck. It's probably due to the fact that most people will not have the chance to cross-shop AWD systems nor use theirs to it's full potential. That, combined with marketing kind of shrouds the truth. One example of this is RT4WD.

Were you able to get any more info on the new VDC system? I'm wondering if it will ever trickle down to the less expensive models.

aling1

Larger versions (500+ kb) can be seen here:
http://www.geocities.com/aling_1/Handout_1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/aling_1/Handout_2.jpg



Drew

aling1

The Vancouver auto show that I went to was from March 31st to April 7th, so no, I wasn't able to get any info on the VDC system. I understand most of the technical operations of the system, but I don't have the kind of details that I have with the MB systems (i.e. How much speed difference between wheels is needed before the 4ETS kicks is, or how many Kb - yes Kb, not MB - of memory capacity does the VDC computer utilise).
Hopefully, these details will trickle down as soon as the vehicles start arriving at dealerships. Considering that the system is probably cheaper and more efficient than the current Active AWD (90/10 or 50/50, both with the rear LSD), I'd imagine that it should trickle down to all Subarus in the near future. I guess they want to keep it exclusively for the H6 model for now.

Drew
P.S. Note the really trim curb weight of the Rally WRX