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Comments
-Frank P.
Jerry: Firestone recalled certain sizes, and I believe they were higher profile (70 or 75), not the 60 series on the Outback. At least for now.
The Crew has spoken, and your Crew Chief hears you. I'll contact Patti and Mike off-line and request a reunion.
-juice
I haven't been on here since I got my 2000 OB wagon in January. I'm sorry to report that I regret my choice because I've had a bunch of problems--both with the car and with the service dept. at my dealer.
On my two long trips since owning this car, I've had to spend time at dealers along the way (VERY inconvenient) because my "check engine" light keeps coming on. The first time it was diagnosed as a faulty O2 sensor, which required another day at the dealership.
The second time I was told it was okay to drive home and have it diagnosed by my dealer, but, of course, by then the light had gone out. They diagnosed "intermittent" problems with no remedy, and told me to bring it back as soon as the light came on again and they'd be able to diagnose it. I did, but they were too busy to look at it, of course. We set up an appointment for 2 days later, and again, the light was out by then and so there was nothing they could do(?).
I've always been taught not to continue driving when this light comes on, and when I called Subaru from a roadside phone booth the first time it happened, they advised me not to drive further.
All along, I've been getting horrible gas mileage, there's a new noise coming from the back wheel, and pieces fall off constantly in my hands--the construction seems to be very cheap.
Is it just me? Am I expecting too much for a new $22,000 car?
How can I deal with the service dept. at my dealer--they are so arrogant! I'll set up an appointment and they'll tell me they doubt if they can look at it that day. Or they keep asking me if I just got gas and didn't tighten the gas cap--I figured that problem out immediately. Now I dread going there because they never fix anything, they act condescendingly toward me, and I end up spending my whole day off there every time. Should I go to higher-ups at the dealership or complain to Subaru?
I'd appreciate any suggestions anyone has.
Bobbi
Drop me an e-mail and I'll put you in touch with Patti of SoA.
Folks, I got a note from Patti. The bad news is her house has to be rebuilt after the damage from the fire. She has to move to an apartment temporarily, but she's trying to get set up to be able to spend an hour or so per day with us.
-juice
Bobbi -- Sorry to hear about your problems. Is there a different Subaru dealer nearby? You don't have to take it to the same place you bought it to get service.
If that doesn't work, my advice is to keep houding them until they do something. Make sure all of your concerns/complaints are documented on a work order so you leave a paper trail. If they still give you crappy service, call Subaru's customer service line and get them to assign you a case#. I've found that persistence pays.
The front speakers in the For. are 6 1/2" and the rear 5 1/4". The rear speakers are a weird size but Polk makes one that fits exactly.
Bobbi
Show the service dept. your NRA membership card
Seriously, SOA is the place to go if your not satisfied and the option of another dealer is not available. I'm really shocked to hear "things are falling off" that sure hasn't been my Sub. experience.
Loosh
Yeah, your after market system looked "factory" to me. The after market manuf. have come a long way since the 8 track under the dash days.
-hutch
-mike
Basically, the dealer is treating you very badly. First, I would talk to Subaru of America -- contact Patti as Juice has suggested. Let SOA rain down on the dealership from above. Honestly, it sounds like you could have a potential lemon-law case here, and SOA would likely do everything they can to resolve it in the most peaceful way. Also, talk to the higher-ups at the dealership -- go see the president personally if you can. I can't imagine they are supposed to conduct business like that.
You could also consider switching dealers to see if the service improves (I can't imagine it would be any worse). That might be the easiest thing to do without causing a big bru-ha-ha. I still think SOA should spank your original dealer, though.
By the way, crew, I have traded Mac OS for Linux today (still running on a Mac), so we can continue to diversify our soob/dave/mac/canoe/kayak demographic.
Craig
Drop me your e-mail off-line and I'll put you two in touch.
-juice
Exactly what stuff is 'falling off'? I'm also very surprised at that. Bad service is one thing, but there hasn't been much talk of bad worksmanship. In our 2000 OB at 12000 miles, absolutely everything is solid, no squeeks, rattles, odd noises. This after much offroading, snow travel, and loading the car up to the gills with people & stuff a few times.
Sorry you're having a bad experience. Anyways, don't settle for crappy service.
Dave C.
Subaru's Wilderness Tires are completely different from those that are recalled (R-16 Passenger car tires w/ and H-speed rating on our's - the "problem tires" are R15 light truck tires with an S -speed rating. Also, the tires that are being recalled were manufactured in one Illinois plant. Ours are made in North Carolina.
I was able to figure out a way to spend some time here during the week, so, I'll be back. Once again, I'm really sorry. I'll have my home PC up and running once we get into some temporary housing closer to "home". One good thing, I've been driving the daylights out of my GT 5-speed and I'm really enjoying it. I can't wait to try the 6 cylinder. I know people want the 6 in a manual tranny but I have not received a time line on that yet. I'm working on it. Also, I know that there where some open questions (why did they eliminate the 60/40 split fold down seats in the sedans). I'm hounding for answers and I hope to have them soon.
I won't be here tomorrow, but I'll be back with you Monday afternoon. If you have any hot issues that may be buried back on this board, could you point me to them so I can get some answers for you?
Thanks for your patience!
Crutchfield says - Blaupunkt Houston will fit Nevada will not.
Blaupunkt says- They are the same size/dimension and same bezel.
Crutchfiled say - Houston is a "J" Nevada is an "E". Japanese cars are "J" so Nevada will not work. Needs to mount in factory bracket from behind.
So Bitman says - Lucien, how did your Nevada mount? Did you use the bezel and if not is there a gap around the face. Did it mount with sleeve or straight into factory mount?
Thanks!
Bob
I test drove it, liked it. the dealer was worse than an audi dlr i visited(attitide,rude,etc). my g/f liked it but now doesnt trust firestone. i asked if they would switch brands, but no. to be fair, its only one size thats bad, but im not taking chances on my woman's car.
ford dealers are EMPTY!you could get a explorer for cheap right now. 48 deaths attributed to the firestone tires, ford/firestone coverup (they knew ofthe problem years ago). They are recalling ALL tires of that size, not just the ones from the illinois plant
I guess we'll be looking at other brands. thanks to everyone on the board for great comments
Respectively,
Stephen
Respectively,
Stephen
Stephen
to be honest, she had reservations on long term reliability (not knowing the brand), so i think its an accumilation of many little things.
incidentally, here in so. calif the news is plastered w/ firestone's peeling off so it may be an overreaction but w/ so many other tires out there why risk it?
Stephen
-mike
Craig
-mike
I picked up the August 2000 issue of car (all lower case) at my local Borders last night. There are two interesting 3-car comparos between Subarus and European rivals.
One pits the Impreza Turbo estate against the Audi S3 and VW Golf 4Motion, both 3-doors. The author judges the 4Motion the winner based on size, comfort, price and amenities. The Impreza Turbo was the cheapest but received much scorn. I won't quote extensively but remarks included: "crummy...interior...crudely styled, cheaply finished and deeply unimaginative"; "The whole car has a pervading sense of tinniness and insubstantiality, wrapped around a tank-like powertrain"; "the Impreza has finally had its day...we'll wait for the new car."
The other comparo had a Forester S Turbo going up against (gasp) an Audi A6 Allroad 2.7T and Volvo V70 Cross Country. Hold your breath...except for high-speed highway driving (A6), the Forester won hands down! Some quotes re the Forester included: "What is an eye-opener is the brilliant fun that it provides on the open road"; "you still find yourself making excuses for the Forester's interior, sticking up for it"; "so fast and butch"; "High-speed cruising is one of the few things the Subaru isn't very good at"; "SUV meets MPV meets hot hatch"; "comfortably the best off-road."
Seems the Brits have an overall appreciation for Soobs, especially the Forester. I think they recognize that even a 7-year-old design (Impreza) can still beat the pants off most newer rivals. Regardless of appearance I look forward to seeing what the new Imp can do.
As for the CD... I got an answer to my Blaupunkt Nevada vs Houston question by calling Blau tech support one more time. Both units have are DIN and both have ISO holes for rear mounting. It is a mistake in the Crutchfield database. Crutchfield says the 2000 Legacy requires ISO mounting (mount with dash panel removed) but thinks the Nevada is non-ISO (can only be mounted with a sleeve from the front).
We rented a Fiat (Meane?) from Hertz to drive out to Dover, Stonehenge and Avebury (north of Stonehenge). The Fiat was a 1.9L but had plenty of pickup and go. I love European suspensions, they are amazingly tight.
I didn't however, enjoy driving in central London. If I see one more roundabout, I think I'll puke! It wasn't so much the traffic- but more the routes that seem to be laid out inconsistenly. Almost seems like they designed their roads so that people would want to take public transport...
-- ash
Sorry for repeating what others have said, but as I see it, you're rejecting a good vehicle because:
1) Tire failure at a miniscule rate.
I respect you for wanting a safe car for your significant other, but aren't you ignoring the NHTSA and IIHS crash tests? Plus the tire on the OB has a different tread pattern, speed rating, size, and is made at a different factory than the recalled tires? Plus there have been ZERO incidents involving the OB w/Wilderness tires. Plus, while you focus on this tire problem, you are ignoring the fact that you are way more likely to simply hit debris in the road or a pothole, pop a tire, and crash.
2) Dealer snootiness.
This does bother me a lot also. However, I figure I only have to work with the dealer for two hours, whereas I'll spend 400-500 hours per year for ten years in the car that I buy from him, so who cares if he is a snoot. I'm more worried about meeting obnoxious, snooty drivers on the road. Think of the two hours as a game, where you are trying to outdo the snooty guy.
3) Perceived un-reliability.
umm, forget perception! Pick up Consumer Reports. They have lots of info on reliability that is based on a huge statistical base --tens of thousands of actual car owners. Subaru makes one of the most reliable cars on the road. That is a fact.
4) There are lots of similar cars out there to choose from, so you don't have to put up with anything that you even sort-of don't like. I guess if you aren't specifically looking for reliability, AWD, high ground clearance, handling, and money is not an object, then you do have lots of choices.
Hey, if the above sounds too snippy, I apologize. I'm an engineer, and it peeves me when people don't base decisions on facts and logic =p
Dave C.
If you wonder about reliability issue, and if you live in the SF bay area, you are welcome to stop by, inspect and test-drive my old Subaru Loyale'92. Note how many old GL/DL/Loyale wagons you still see on the road, although Subaru was always a niche player in the US automarket.
Dealer should not matter. You don't punish the dealer by not buying the make and model you want. You punish him/her by buying the make and model you want from ANOTHER dealer.
Re: <346</A>> 346I think the foglights on the GT seem like afterthoughts (like, see we've got these spaces here in the bumper! I know let's fill w/foglights, dude!) Last note: Sorry Mike S., meant no malice toward your sweet green machine.Clubs
Gee thanks Stephen, I hadn't thought one or the other about the GT fog lights until you mentioned it. Now that I've taken notice, the fog light won't stop staring at me -- they're driving me mad! My solution will be to never approach that putrid GT front end, always sneak up from behind. {chortle} (no offense taken -- I realize that not all opinions are right, just mine
James Powers, glad you're still here, even if not regularly.
Vince(14), Howdy! Glad you stopped by!
bitman and stargazer3, Greetings (you introduced yourself during my hiatus) fellow GTers! Please update your profiles (including sedan/wagon/color in the comment field, if you want).
aussieroo, Cool, another Australian! Graham needs some company, and we need Aussie Forester representation. Welcome aboard.
needaride, Thanks for sharing your story.
Graham, Glad to see you're still with us. Thanks for sharing a great description of your country. Your country (and NZ) have been on my vacation wish list for some time and your post made me salivate! (Wonder if I could rent a WRX..)
Bobbi, Sorry to here about your misfortune; definitely not something you want to experience on your new ride.
Craig, Hehe the penguin welcomes you to the dark side.
Patti, Glad to hear things are looking up.
And Lucien you asked whassup? Well I did it. I signed up to get smart in the GT at Summit Point, WV school/track on 13 October. Yup, that's Friday the 13th. hehe. FATT event info on this i Club thread; here's the head count.
..Mike
P.S. -- Lucien, thanks for the earlier info about your experience at Summit Point, it definitely made the decision easier.
..Mike
I didn't read the article, but from what you quoted, it sounded to me like they where saying the Impreza stinks, not that "even a 7-year-old design (Impreza) can still beat the pants off most newer rivals."
-Bryan
I really liked the soob, but convincing my g/f is another thing. picture me saying "oh, its great, etcetc" and "not the same tires" then going to the dealer w/ a skeptical soul and having to deal with a crappy salesman. She didnt like how she was being treated and neither did i. how many hurdles do i have to go through?! I'll tell you: none.
(not too many soob dealers nearby)we are currently looking at what she wants now.
Safety, reliability, space, economy- there ARE alot of choices. I just thought the soob was a good one, but i lost that battle.
WELCOME BACK, DROOG!
Patti-
Oh, sure, APOLOGIZE for your house burning down!! While we miss your input, certainly a tragedy of that magnitude takes priority. Get your life back together and join us when you are ready
Bitman-
The Nevada was an exact fit; I think I used the sleeve though. It was an "EZ" install according to the website, and they were right. It was a total breeze (assuming the intaller has a modicum of common sense), although the antenna lead was pretty short and therefore a bit of a twister game to plug in. I double checked your car on the site and, sure enough, the '00 is different. Surprised they revised the dash THAT much. I dunno, but I would go with what they say- they are the ones that actually try the fit, not Blau. That said, the website does not offer as many Subaru model choices for 2000 as for 1999, so I wonder if they have finished testing them all. Wish I could be more helpful.
Fords-
Sorry guys, any SUV (or minivan, for that matter) is going to roll over like a scared mafioso if it loses a tire and binds an axle, not just Explorers-this is really unfair to beat up on one make. I saw a Chrysler minivan get T-Boned at an intersection at 25 miles an hour and it still ended up on its roof, kids hollering and mom crying...what a mess. I'll take wagons anyday.
And finally-
You think it is bad now, wait till everyone gets internet access and stock reports in their cars this winter. Yeesh. I'm hangin old tires all around my car like a tugboat. Or maybe it is time to move to Europe..........?
The dash trim snaps over/around the HVAC/radio opening. I don't see how a sleeve would apply to this new configuration at all. Still, many new radios are front or rear mount. If the radio does have standard mounting holes on the side that align with the mounting holes in the rack then it should work (and even that can be fudged). The critical factor is the face/opening size, and if it's a DIN radio, it should work, no bezel required.
Bitman, you could call Crutchfield and explain the situation to them -- they are usually very willing to work with customers in situations like this. Chances are, you'd be able to talk with one of the guys who fitted the Legacy dash and maintains the database. You're right, it's probably a mistake in their system. After all, I'd expect more than 3 measly Blaupunkt radios to fit the Legacy!
Craig
Except in Jersey they're called Circles.
-mike
I am on my second Outback an neither car has ever been back to a Subaru dealer...speaks well for the quality and reliability of the Soobs, we must draw our own conclusions with regard to dealer service. J.D. Power survey for 2000 rated Subaru service below average, for more info. go to www.subaruclub.com.
One other problem I forgot to mention is that I still get a bad burning smell from the car. It smells electrical, and lots of people have commented on it. The dealer keeps saying it's just the undercoating and will burn off. Problem is, it's now been 7 months; shouldn't that be gone by now? I think it's something else.
On the + side, the car handles great on our flooded roads.
Bobbi
Sounds as if the same does not apply in the States
Cheers
Graham
graham: Your fierce nationalism is showing. heheh
Yep, I guess some Subaru dealers have provided poor service. But it is a big country with several hundred dealerships, and I'm sure it is pretty difficult for SoA to goad all dealerships to be consistent in both (prompt) service and (good) attitude. I had a good experience with my Subaru dealer --had a scraping sound from a front brake. Dealer service guy took it right in, test drove it, took off the caliper/pads/rotor, removed a stuck pebble, turned the rotor smooth, re-assembled, and test drove again. Not at all a warranty-related thing, but he took care of with no BS. I know, that's only one story, but hopefully these good dealerships will set a standard for the bad dealerships.
Woohoo! Are you going to any Olympic events?
Dave C.
Since the dash panels (shifter and HVAC/stereo surrounds) are so easy to remove I was thinking of replacing them. This is a 00 GT and the plastic is the fake wood. It's nice but I would rather have it gray like the rest of the dash. Are non GT Legacys solid color or fake wood? Might these panels be available through Darlene?
Bit
Just today I took off two small 2-3 mm chunks off the wheel rim of my right rear wheel on my minivan. Well, it wasn't completely my fault. It was a poorly designed and intrusive sidewalk/curb at the narrow exit gate at an underground parking garage. I knew I probably did some damage after hearing the fairly loud wack.
Drew
I heard that you can in fact order the black dash pieces (from the base Legacy wagon). I'm sure Darlene can get them, but I don't know what the cost would be. Let me know if you find out.
Craig
Anyone know if there is a yellow tinted bulb that will fit in there?
Norman
I went down to my local Sube dealer yesterday to check out a Forester 'S' with the premium package. They call this version the 'S+'.
It was monotone silver and I was surprised at how nice it looked. The silver is very warm toned. From pictures I was not crazy about the 'gold-tone' effect on the premium wheels, but it is very subtle, and matches the silver of the car pretty well. I had been thinking about getting this car in black since I've had a little silver wagon for nearly 15 years, but this silver is very appealing.
I loved the moonroof, and there is a practical use I would have for it. I am a sometime birder, and I often pull to the side of highways to check out birds, mainly falcons and hawks, that are hanging out there hunting. While they ignore cars, as soon as you get out for a closer look they usually fly. So the moonroof is perfect for turning the car into a birdwatching blind!
This car had the premium stereo installed, with the subwoofer, and I thought the sound was fine. Bass was very present and tight, and turning it up didn't cause noticeable distortion in the speakers. No doubt there are other ways to go to make the system much better, but for $300 I thought this was pretty good; besides it's all installed and all matches. I got an estimate of more than $400 + install from a local shop to do upgraded speakers and a subwoofer in the Forester. I could do the install myself, though...
What kind of stereo has anyone put in their Forester? And what options do you have that you love or hate or wish you had gotten?
Best wishes,
Alan
soon to be zooming down the highway blasting Patti Smith, then zipping to the shoulder to check out a Cooper's Hawk. Now how does THAT fit the Subaru profile???
I have three things to say after reading a couple of hundred posts:
1. That aussie Subaru website is cool, I had fun playing with it and taking note of the differences between the Australian Foresters vs. the American.
2. I enjoyed the feedback and photos of the Edmund's live event: Thanks to Hutch and Juice.
3. I'm glad to see Patti and Mike back...both valuable sources of info.
LOL....I think I'll have to make a point to check in more often so that I don't have to spend half of my Sunday staring at the computer screen. I'd rather be in my soob going to my favorite fishing spots.
Take care all,
Skip