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Comments
..Mike"
Hehe, that may be a while yet. I'm currently saving my pennies for the '02 S430 4-matic.
My van is already starting to show its age ( MY1994 Grand Voyager LE AWD), but it has been okay mechanically (still on my first tranny), and only has about 89K kms. Also, ocassionally I (or my parents) do need to bring out of town visitors or relatives around, so I'll probably have it for at least another 1.5 years.
Option B is certainly interesting, but a Subaru AWD minivan would be nice. The only AWD minivans on the market currently are the Chryslers, and I think that Subaru would do well with this idea, especially in Canada. Perhaps the Grand Forester will incorporate 3rd row seat idea. I just hope they don't make the vehicle one size too small.
In the mean time, my neighbour has been itching to get rid of her Honda CR-V. She has already shown interest in the Outback wagon (specifically a Winestone Pearl, just like Juice's dad's). Another neighbour of mind has already bought a white OBS, upon my recommendation. So, I do what I can for Subaru :-)
Drew
Kidding. They are my least favorite, though.
Road & Track is owned by the same folks that do Car & Driver, so that's a bit redundant. Go with Automobile.
Unless you have an RS, in which case Sport Compact Car would be more appropriate.
Since you enjoy the couch, Motorweek is right on TV, if you don't mind that type of media. Plus, they're much more Subaru-friendly than Edmunds.
-juice
Seriously, though, I think C&D is about the best monthly out there. Their technical dept is top notch -- they actually use empiracal data correction methods to standardize their performance data to reference conditions, so you can be sure that performance of one model tested in 90 degree weather in July is an even comparison with another model tested in the dead of winter. To my knowledge, they're the only ones who do that. Besides the technical aspect though, I like their writing style and sense of humor.
Craig
I do like some of the UK mags, especially, I think it is called "Car" or "Auto" Shucks, i am overwhelmed at work here and can't remember. Anyway, a much more balanced approach...they actually test normal cars! Like a legacy L!! Cleverly written, with engaging text and lots of wit. I like the term "Yank Tank" they use for imported SUVs. Plus a huge test digest in the back, lots of slightly OT articles, too. Russell Bulgin had a great piece on the lure of Sony Playstation GT2. It really is more of a lifestyle mag for car nuts. Imagine that, a Euro mag that is stylish, and sophisticated! It is to US car mags what Mojo is to Rolling Stone, or the Economist in to Time. IMHO. But I'm not opinionated or anything.
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svolsu.asp
should start some interesting comments
GM is supposed to come out with an AWD van, since the Aztec will get AWD soon, but it's not much of a safe platform and the AWD would be unproven.
So yes, a Grand Forester would be nice. Though I actually desire the "one size too small" you're thinking of. A 3rd row just for emergencies would be nice.
GM will have the folding 3rd seat soon, so why not copy that for the Grand Forester?
Craig - another plug for C&D: they're the only ones that do top speed testing on every vehicle.
Loosh - I fully agree about the editorials, and have basically started skipping them. I think you're talking about Car. They're the ones that tested a Forester Turbo against the Volvo XC and Audi Allroad, which they call Estates of course!
-juice
Explorer sales will tank. That was July, before all the media hype.
Other surprises, to me at least, are how low sales are for the Rodeo, RAV4, Grand Viagra, and Trooper.
Escape/Tribue at zero. That's funny. I had guessed they'd be near the top.
See, told ya everyone but the EPA considers the Forester an SUV. The fact that it's an excellent little AWD wagon can be our little secret!
-juice
http://www.motortrend.com/oty/index.html
They probably weren't for sale due to the recall. I missed the chance to drive one at Edmunds Live for the same reason.
I remember they picked the Caprice over some more interesting cars, and that was when it had the rear fender skirts and not the Impala SS model.
-juice
The liberal voice is well represented, so I find it refreshing for a change. Then again I don't care enough to subscribe.
-Colin
Richard
their stance strikes me as shortsighted, and comes off like a bunch of grumpy old men. OK, great, you invented the Cannonball run, and you there seem to pretty attached to that Malamute/wolf mix of yours, but you aren't speaking to this hombre.
Don't be so sure about that.
-Colin
Craig
I wasn't talking about recycled cooking or even motor oil. I was referring to a theory being tested that crude oil is actually the product of geothermal processes-- a bit like coal, and not long-dead plant and animal remains. Not a popular theory because environmentalists don't like the idea and people selling crude oil don't like it either. But there are some documented examples of oil fields refilling... I'll leave it at that, everyone probably is sure I'm nuts now. You can research it a bit if you care, I'm not joking though.
Hey, did you ever get my email reply about your performance and track questions? You hinted at it in another post here but never sent an email. I replied from work the same day you I got your message.
-Colin
It has a sharply edited, pithy, summary of all cars on sale in Britain, sometimes known as "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly"
The next most useful read is probably Autocar, the world's oldest motoring paper (originally "The Autocar" and merged with "Motor"), published each week and giving probably the best, most objective tests of any magazine I have ever seen. It is the paper which all the motor trade read and there is a funny little section at the back where the motor trade advertises for staff etc. It also has a car by car summary of the essential specs (top speed, 0 to 60, horsepower) with comparisons to some past greats (I remember the VW Beetle and Golf GTi Mk i and Mk ii) for ease of cross checking. This is much harder to come by outside the UK but its tests and opinions are quoted widely. Try a search under Google quoting Autocar UK and Subaru for some references.
Oddly, the flavour of both Car and Autocar has been set by Australian journalists with the Editor in chief of Autocar being Steve Cropley, who grew up in the outback town of Broken Hill. That's where my mum and dad met and it is fringe desert country (actually by US standards where rainfall below 10 inches per annum is a measure of desert, it is seriously desert country). It's the sort of place where you can, as my father once did, lose a car in a dust filled pot hole. On the way back from their honeymoon, mum had to push the car for twenty miles through mud formed by the bulldust, wetted by sudden rain, as dad drove, the speedo showing they had covered sixty due to the wheels slipping in the mud. I am not sure how Cropley made the transition from outback Australia, but he is an extremely interesting writer on motoring topics of broad interest as well as having his finger on the pulse of the international motoring industry.
There is also a good although slightly down market, car comparison magazine called "What Car" which is unashamedly targeted at the non car-nut with lots of comparison tests of fleet type vehicles. In the UK, the majority of car purchases are for fleet vehicles, the tax system having historically made company supplied vehicles very attractive as a salary packaging tool. Most users have a range of choices available, possibly several hundred different cars within their leasing price range. On this basis, a car comparator showing really useful items like the number of cupholders is really important for potential buyers. However, What Car is written for an audience barely literate and probably incapable of intelligent thought in the automotive plain (there is a glorious English phrase for such types - Bottom Feeders - which implies the sort of fish which poke methodically but unimaginatively along the river bottom, looking for scraps. Translation to humans is unkind but very English). I am forever grateful for the Video distributed by this magazine where the Editor, unintentionally, explained to me that the pronunciation was not "What Car?" but "Whaccar!" (possibly "wocker") expressed in a peculiar dialect known as Estuarine English. Imagine funny working class Englishmen with greyhounds and flat caps and you have the general idea. If you have never been to England, try thinking of New Jersey or maybe Pittsburgh and you will get the general idea. Thinking about it, that pronunciation of "Joisey" is very similar.
When we moved back to Australia, I kept all the Car magazines but dumped the rest, the Autocar's being really hard to part with.
In Australia, the best car magazine is Wheels http://www.carpoint.com.au/wheels/wheelshome.asp which was actually the training ground for many of the UK journalists. The all time best motoring article I have ever seen was published over two editions of Wheels - a recollection by Evan Green, a respected rally driver and motoring journalist, of his time with Malcolm Campbell as he pursued the World land Speed record in Bluebird on the salt flats of Lake Eyre in about 1964. This has not, apparently, been republished elsewhere although it is really worth locating.
That's enough
Cheers
Graham
-mike
I love driving my wife's Legacy, but I'm used to having a PU bed. I'm afraid I'd miss it too much to go with any current Subaru model for myself.
Is anyone else out there looking expectantly to the release of the ST-X?
I'm really glad to hear that Subaru is so tuned-in to the customer -- it reaffirms what I've come to learn about the whole Subaru experience.
Craig
I love my Subaru!
Mark
Patti: One thing I forgot to mention -- I hope you get a chance to follow the other active Subaru topics on Edmunds, like the Legacy/Outback #451, Subaru Wagons #353, and the Forester #2674 and #2928 (among others). I can imagine these would be a gold mine of information for Subaru.
Craig
One UK writer whom I really enjoy is that oddball L.G.K Setright (I'm not sure if that's correct spelling of his name). No question about it, he lives in his own zip code, but he's very interesting and entertaining.
Patti - Glad to hear we're having some impact at SOA. Hopefully some of our comments on future product will bear some fruit.
Bob
I've been lurking here on the boards for the last few months and owe it to you all for guiding me toward my purchase of a '00 OB. I've had it about 2 1/2 months now and have about 2800 miles on it and love it so far! The week after I bought my OB, my sister-in-law picked up a Legacy sedan at the same dealer. It's the first "good car" she has ever had and she loves it as well. (Considering that all she had to compare to was a Pontiac T1000 and Hyundia, you can see why.) She really likes the idea of AWD.
I've got a question for the esteemed panel: I remember several years ago, there being a Subaru small pick-up type truck that had seats in the bed facing rearwards. Was that the "Brat" and what's the deal with two seats in the bed facing rearwards?
Ron
Bi-range
Recreational
All Terrain
Transport
And Subaru added the rear seats so it would qualify as a car for export use.
That helped keep the export taxes to
a minimum.
Darlene
That explains the goofy rear seats!
Graham: thanks for reminding us there are other countries on this globe! I should add "Quattro Rodas" from Brazil, but only for the Portuguese speaking contingent. They're very unbiased, and test cars from all around the world.
Colin: does that mean you get discounts on gas?
Craig/Patti: sorry, we're keeping her to ourselves! Actually, I keep up with those topics and invite folks over here, so they're aware of our access to SoA.
Grumpy old men at C&D, well put. Csaba Csere (a fun name to pronounce) is too spoiled and only pays attention to luxury cars. Brock Yates is the militant conservative you all are talking about, and uses the word "[non-permissible content removed]" too often and to descrive any opponent of his. Patrick Bedard is a statistics freak, too much so. And they just lost their coolest editor in a high speed run of a hot-rod Benz. Bummer.
Their former editor was much better, I forget his name but he just retired a year ago or so.
-juice
Obrigado, Juice (that's as much Portuguese as I can master
Bob
Without a doubt, my favorite is David E. Davis, from Automobile. You either like this guy, or you don't. There's no middle ground with D.E.D. Also, one of my favorite writers, from long ago, is Tom McCahill from Popular Mechanics. He's the guy who invented automotive journalism as we know it today. I used to read him when I was a kid. (Just how old are you Bob??)
Bob
My favorite is Denise McCluggage from Autoweek. How can you beat a female enthusiast from a generation that had no female enthusiasts?
Even today, she could spank any one of us silly on a track. My kind of woman.
In another life time, I'd have married her.
-juice
CR have good reviews, but are a little soft on the driving aspects, so it came to me as a big surprise when the BMW X5 won top honors, because it has so little luggage space.
My only blame on C&D is that there are only two or three young editors.
About off road magazines, the best, by far, was Open Road. Sadly, some one on this forum told us that is no longer to be printed.
James and Frank's Soobs are pictured.
Pardon my lame attempt at humor, it is Friday afternoon!
-juice
probably isn't blue;
it's the best I can do).
..Mike
..Mike
That and the Grand Forester, maybe in Winestone Pearl monotone, with a supercharged H6 and 3 rows of seats that flip and fold like our parent company GM will offer on its vans.
I may just have to get both!
-juice
I've now had my Forester for about two months and have 1700 miles on it. I LOVE IT! Installed my arm rest extension the other day (ordered from Darlene of course). Did my first oil change at 1500 miles myself using a Subaru filter (again, ordered from Darlene).
The only thing that bothers me is that little click I hear sometimes when the auto shifts into third gear. Would someone reassure me that it is the transfer case changing the front/rear torque distribution? I think I read that somewhere on one of these boards, but would feel better if someone like Patti said so. Patti?
I am getting right around the stated 22 city and 26 highway MPG. I understand that this might improve after it is thoroughly broken in. I'm happy with the 26 though.
I loaded the Scooby Doo to the hilt two weeks ago when I took my Daughter to college (she is a freshman at Purdue). Drove 70-75 MPH with the full load and a bike on the hitch mounted carrier and got 26 MPG. Ya just gotta love it!
Have a great holiday weekend everybody!
Mark
Even suburban newsagents stock magazines from around the world, with just masses of foreign car magazines. You can even get Car & Driver at my nearest Service Station news stand. You also tend to get the wackier European things which have exquisitely chic art photos of (almost always European) cars in improbable settings. The text is as wacky as most style magazines. They are the sort of magazines you find in the reception areas for advertising houses and graphic studios; you know the sort of thing where you read them and wonder whether there is any possibility of communicating using a common language.
We also get things like Japanese language mags and also some out of places like Indonesia (I think that's where they come from, anyway). Whilst of the cool paintwork variety, they have much better production values than the Australian magazines as they sell to a much larger market.
My favourite US magazine is Road & Track, which has fascinated me since I was a child and it appeared in our small country town library every month. The writing is mostly pretty good and years ago they always had a lovely end piece on the final pages. Perhaps, the concentration is a little to much on the fast cars end of the spectrum for my taste.
Car & Driver appeals less. I am one of those readers who likes to form their own opinions from intelligent analysis, not from pre-digested opinion pieces. If I read something with an excessively left stance, my views tend to swing fairly right wing. If, as with Car & Driver, the stance is outrageously conservative, I suddenly go over all-liberal. For a long time, I found the wackier views of LJK Setright in Car too extreme for my tastes, but he did express them very well.
Mention of the phrase "living in his own zip code" reminds me of a lovely, although not directly equivalent Australian phrase " A few kangaroos short in the top paddock". Isn't the English language fun?
Cheers
Graham
Speaking of the English language, I don't know of any other automotive scribe who has a better grasp of, or how to exploit the subtle nuances of the language, than LJK Setright.
Bob
The wheel's spinning, but the hamster's dead.
A few feathers short of a whole duck.
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.
He bought an Aztek.
Ross
Funny to see obrigado again, I visited Recife and Olinda a few years ago as a guest of the Pernambuco police--The other word they taught me was goshtoza, (sp?) you can enlighten the group Juice as I forget the exact translation.
Mike- Thanks, I DO love the blue ridge! As a matter of fact our flightsuits ARE blue as well, which makes them a pain to order as nomex doesn't dye well, and most manufacturers stick to sage and royal blue. If I remember to bring the camera to work tomorrow, I'll pull the Forester onto the flightline to catch both of my "rides" on one image!
Frank- Congrats brother! Your Soob looks awesome with the tint! I am very tempted to have mine done as well, but I shudder to think of a poorly done tint job. I have no experience myself, but I have seen some poor jobs. I would be loathe to accept even a tiny bubble. Is there an trade association of auto window tintmen? What do you folks think about ensuring a proper job?
Patti-You and your company have earned my respect and loyalty. I really did the research on this purchase and it has been a great experience:)
More pics to come:)
James
Bob
http://www.projo.com/cgi-bin/story.pl/news/04172361.htm
There was some footage of the scene on local news. Looked like a Black '01 Forester S+. The car was completely destroyed. They had to remove the roof to get the people out. Although I did not know this salesman, I purchased my '01 Forester from this dealership 2 weeks ago.
Seeing this stuff always makes you realize that every car has it's limits. Although we enjoy the great handling characteristics of our Subarus, our limits are much higher, especially in poor road conditions, resulting in a much more serious situation when those limits are broken. Be careful out there...
My prayers and best wishes are with the victims for a complete and rapid recovery.
-Tony
two floors short of an elevator.
ninety cents in the dollar.
mad as a cut snake.
silly as a two bob watch.