Disc brakes may not necessarily stop the vehicle any faster (of course rotor sizes matter), but their main advantages are much better heat dissapation, as well as the fact that they clean themselves much better in dirty/wet conditions. By this I mean that the pads sweep the rotor surfaces clean almost immediately, whereas moisture/crud can build up inside the drums.
Nowadays, drums are mostly a cost cutting measure. In other countries, the same cars that are fitted with rear drums have rear disc brakes (partly to do with consumer acceptance and perception as well).
One other note: you can always design disc and drum systems to have the same stopping power, but the discs will resist/reduce fade much better. After a few hard stops, drum brakes lose effectiveness, but discs can usually go several more rounds before fading. This is a direct result of the better heat dissipation that Drew mentioned.
I once attempted to de-snorkus a Dodge Shadow (2.5L engine), and got mixed results. After talking to a knowledgeable mechanic, I found out that the computer was probably compensating for the increased air massflow by closing the air intake valve to keep the air/fuel ratio constant. So, instead of adding more fuel, it cut back on the air!! I guess it was programmed for economy. The mechanic said that a "performance chip" would likely help, by adjusting the fuel/air map to ratchet up the fuel flow to match the increase in cool air. Regardless, I thought it seemed a little faster! The enhanced vroom-vroom sound was cool too, and eliminated the need to make the motor noise with my lips . . . .
paisan: it wasn't me doing the comparing, it was C&D. Though the fed considers it a car, everyone else (including consumers, BTW) considers it a small SUV. So I've given up swimming against the stream.
I actually think it falls inbetween, as a hybrid.
I also think the term "SUV" is a completely manufactured and artificial term. Why does a 2WD unibody Cherokee qualify? What about a FWD RAV4 or CR-V? Shouldn't it be a RAV2? What about a 4-wheel fully independent suspension-ed Hummer?
It's hard to even define an SUV. Let's say it's a full ladder frame truck, with 4WD and low range gearing, with a lockable center diff, and front and rear solid axles. Traditional SUV traits.
More than half of all SUVs don't meet these criteria. The base Trooper has (gasp!) 2WD and an independent front suspension! Heavens! And it's the epitome of an SUV!
Note that in other markets, Toyota uses SW4, for "station wagon 4WD", which is what they really are. Here the term "station wagon" gives people nightmares, but overseas they're seen as upscale and desireable.
..of customer service, in my book. A while back I ordered the bike rack, which arrived sans rack mounts. I called around town and found them about 20 minutes away, and was able to install the thing in time for a weekend trip. Well, Juice mentioned it to Darlene, who offered me a credit toward my next purchase. Cool enough; here it is 2 months later and I order a cargo net for the car. She tells me it will be here monday. I ask her for my total......NADA! Complimentary, to compensate me for my trouble. It is refreshing to work with someone in customer service actually interested in serving the customer. Kudos to QSubaru. Again.
I'm not sure that the Xterra/Grand Vitara situation is a good comparison. I think people who are cross-shopping the Forester are more likely to look at the Escape and Tribute, than they would look at the Xterra and Grand Vitara. The Forester & Escape/Tribute are more comparable feature wise.
Also, the point I was making was mainly dealing with dealers that sell the Forester along side the Escape and Tribute. When you can put the Forester right next to an Escape or Tribute -- many people (not people like us who examine every little detail), I think, will feel more comfortable with the size, features and price of the Escape and Tribute.
And... at Subaru/Mazda dealers and Subaru/Ford dealers, every Escape and Tribute purchase could/should be considered a lost Forester purchase.
I still think Escape will eat into other sales, and actually move people out of cars. They'll take customers that used to drive Contours and Escorts (there are millions), plus Explorer owners looking for something more fuel efficient. Maybe even ex-Windstar customers.
It'll be cross shopped against the Cherokee (which is in big trouble) and the basic Blazer (which is getting updated in the nick of time).
For the most part, consumers either buy domestic or import name plates. The Forester is most often compared with CR-V and RAV4.
Funny thing is, he was a dedicated Ford guy, having owned a Sable and two Tauri prior to this Soob. His work fleet included (over time) a Blazer, an Explorer, a Camry, and several Land Cruisers.
Yet he bought the Outback. Guess it's 'cause he's paying for the gas this time!
My wife is probably a good example: She is currently driving an old '91 Explorer. Unlike me, she could care less about cars. She wants something smaller than the Explorer, but not "too" much smaller. She likes the Forester, but is somewhat concerned that it might be too much smaller than what she is used to. Certainly she's driven our Subaru, and likes it.
When we get get ready to sell the old Explorer, and knowing her concerns, a new Forester will be a tougher sell (on my part), than will be the Escape or Tribute. And again, when she see the two side-by-side, it will be a tougher sell still.
It would've been at least a couple of years ago (or more) since the comparison tests utilised the previous generation Outback/GT. It was IMSA-certified and at conducted at Willow Springs. Apparently it was so good that the people who made the video won an award! You can see that here (it's in the middle of the page): http://www.wildaboutwheels.com/bs3.htm
Hope this helps and I'm sure everyone appreciates your effort.
Bob - quite honestly, she'll be more comfortably at home in an Escape. She's used to bigger Fords, not smaller imports. That would be a very tough conquest sale (like my dad).
I don't think the Forester was designed for ex-Explorer owners moving down in size. The Outback, maybe. The Forester is for a ex-coupe owner looking to move up, or just starting a family.
Yeah, dad came from work, riding with me.
He bought the car and took it home as a surprise for my stepmom. She certainly was shocked and happy!
Juice -- I've been saying all along to my wife that the Outback is a better "family" vehicle, simply because it's larger. She's still not comfortable moving into a "wagon/car" as opposed to a smaller SUV. And quite frankly, she prefers the somewhat funky looks of the Forester over the looks of the Outback.
Who knows, we're still sometime away from that purchase decision. Anything could happen between now and then.
I purchased my 2001-S Forester last week. Much of what I read here helped make that decision. It took the dealer a few days to add some options that I wanted and I picked it up on Sunday.
On the way home, I was nailed in the side by a 1 Ton 4x4 P/U (he ran a light). Amazingly, I wasn't hurt. Shaken up but not hurt. The Forester did not fair that well. Just got a call from my insurance co. .. it's totaled. There were 14 miles on the speedo! I really enjoyed the ride home (up to that point) seemed like a nice vehicle. I guess it had good brakes too.. never needed to find out. The truck eliminated any need for brakes. Guess it's time to go shopping again
That really bites, but it's thankful you weren't hurt. I would say your Forester served an important purpose if you were able to walk away from the accident! Let's all have a moment of silence for the benevolent Forester . . .
I hope you make out OK with the insurance company. The replacement value of a Forester with 14 miles on the odo should be pretty good!
Bob: the trick is to get her to drive one at a rapid pace. You only notice the Forester's advantages over its competitors when you push it hard.
Like Hutch at Edmunds Live. He made me wet my pants in the competitors, which rolled onto their side walls and begged for mercy, but the Forester felt confident and fun at even higher speeds.
Drew: that school sounds like fun. It should be mandatory for drivers in the Snow Belt!
takit: glad you are OK. That poor Forester gave it's life for you!
Since you were not injured, I'd actually say it did fair well. Don't forget what's important is your safety! Crumple zones worked in your case.
How about a new one with the blazing Red color, so you're more visible?
My wife --26 this December, she's old like me --drives a Miata. Sounds all well and good until she hops in my pride&joy 2.5RS and calls it a truck. She's just teasing, but the torque curve is fairly truckish.
I can't stand the Miata though, believe it or not. It's kinda fun but the non-tilting wheel smacks my thigh (yes the seat is back far enough) and the footwell is TINY. I like low-end torque too and it has none. Well, some compared to a Civic VX but none compared to the RS.
She wants her next vehicle to be a used 911 or an e36 3 series-- ideally an M3 but the 328 is powerful enough for her.
Oh yeah, and when I travel on business I let her use my car (which is preferred for hauling around town, especially with our dog) and I always notice that she gets bad gas mileage. I think she likes the boxer sound even more than I do!
-Colin PS, here's the only thing we have done on our website... the dog's section. My wife was the developer, so go easy on her. Cleo's site
My older bro just received his 2001 Forester S Premium, just as promised three weeks ago when he put down an easy $100 deposit at Carlsen's Subaru Redwood City, CA on the inbound vehicle. No haggle $700 over invoice for the Premium ($500 over for regular S). He's replacing a very very similar vehicle, a '91 Mazda Miata Having a kid will force that change, I guess. I convinced him to buy Subaru, but couldn't get him to buy Outback. He was sold on the clean look of the Forester. I think he'll enjoy it.
Whoa, I've always heard third-hand tales of that sort of thing happening to brand-new car owners but this is the first time I've ever heard it actually reported firsthand! Glad you're OK, sorry about the Forester; hopefully, you'll get the thrill of driving a new car off the lot again real soon.
How do I get MY wife into AutoX?! Dude, I hate that Explorer, I want it gone. She kinda likes it because she always wanted a beater truck, but takes the scoob for the long trips.
Of course, we can't really afford it. Hmm...."Here honey, you take the OB, and I'll take this poor, used, RS in the paper here...:
Takit- I'm so sorry to here about your loss. I remember thinking when I was driving my new Forester home that it would really suck to get in an accident. Hopefully you've now exhausted your supply of bad luck for many years to come!
did my email get there, or should I send it again?
Colin- Kirsten rode with the instructors after my first class with BMW CCA (I am the only member without a BMW; joined so I could take the driving classes). She had a blast, but not enough to ditch the Explorer for an '88 325 or '95 Imreza, or something moderately track-worthy.
FWIW - Regarding the insurance, I had an associate whose car was wrecked by a snowplow driver on his way home from work during a storm. The guy slid across the road, and his plow took out the left side, while pushing him off the road and smashing the right side.
Plow driver's insurance tried to offer wholesale book value. My associate says something like, "Pay for a comparable car, with equal mileage and features, regardless of price, and I won't sue your a** off".
He got the car. Good luck, and stick to your guns. They definately owe you a new Forester.
not as lost as I was at i-Club! Man, I lost my password and just now recovered it, but not before a million posts went up, totally blowing away what I wanted to respond to. NEways, welcome aboard. Not too many RS folks here, but Colin is always nearby....
Whew, finally caught up. I wanted to make a comment about the electric lock buttons that were mentioned, oh, about 250 posts back...
It seemed a little weird to me at first the way they were set up in the 2000 Legacy, but now its not a problem. First of all, mounted on a slanted surface as they are, they go forward and back as much as they go up and down. However the trick is to not think about direction, but rather action. You still have to PUSH the switch to lock the door, just like you had to push the old fashioned manual buttons to lock your car. You still have to PULL the switch to unlock the door, just like you had to pull the buttons on older cars. In that respect it works just the same. Think PUSH PULL, not up down. Hey, it works for me!
Picked up my Forester L today. Only 14 miles on the odo. I have a few questions to those familiar with the boxer design (this is my first sube):
1) On initial start-up there is a fair "shake" from the engine. My thinking is that some of the cylinders catch fire before the others causing the shake. Once they all "catch", it's smoother than I would expect from a 4-cyl. Is this normal?
2) The Forester I test drove (115 mi on it) seemed to have a "smoother" auto transmission. My car seems to "bump" (i.e, seems to upshift early, then downshift) a bit on moderate acceleration. I know the transmission has to learn your driving style. Any idea how long this will take?
Other than this, I really like it. Gave my brother (traditional SUV driver) a test ride. You should have seen the frightful look on his face when I entered a 90 degree right hot and how quickly his expression turned to amazement as we exited. It's going to be tough getting thru the break-in period.
I have been a long time reader of this board and I am getting ready to take the plunge and buy a new OB. I have a problem though and I thought this is where I can get the answer.
My wife and I like the OB - alot. But, my wife thinks the brakes feel "soft" - to the point that she is concerned about whether or not the car will stop. I must admit I am a bit concerned on this point as well. Is the braking system safe? Why are they soft? Is it something that can be fixed?
Next question, for those of you who have the auto tranny: With this engine do you feel you have adequate power with the auto? Is it better to go with the 5 spd?
Get the 5 speed if you want more spirited control over your car. It does make the car feel much faster. Get the auto if you plan to tackle off-roads on a frequent basis.
The AWD systems are also very different in the two transmissions (the 5 speed uses viscous coupling, while the automatic uses a mechanical clutch)
Tony - Shaking is not a typical start up experience. Have the dealer check it out. May be a loose wire, or bad plug. My Forester is rock steady. The auto-tranny shift from 1st to 2nd happens pretty quickly, unless you're under hard acceleration. The "learning curve" is short for the electronics.
While I'm not a "fast" driver, I do love to play in the corners. The Forester handling is most enjoyable .. in wet conditions even more so. One of my favorite games is to let some big ol' tank come rolling up on me and then lead em' into some curves at speed. Initially, they try to keep up .. but soon disappear
Kyotz - Soob's have great brakes! My Forester's brakes seem to have a little more travel than other vehicles I've owned .. but I got use to them very quickly. I would suggest that you find an empty parking lot somewhere and do a few panic stops from 40mph or so to assure yourself of what your OB is capable of. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
I wouldn't worry about the soft feel of the brakes. It's just something you get used to. If you're really concerned, drive several Outbacks, and see if they're the same. If they are, then that tells you that the soft pedal feel is normal. If they're different, then that tells you one of those vehicle you drove isn't correct. Lastly, I've never heard anybody complain about stopping distances of any Subaru.
>>...my wife thinks the brakes feel "soft" - to the point that she is concerned about whether or not the car will stop. I must admit I am a bit concerned on this point as well. Is the braking system safe? <<
Subaru is well known the world over for making cars that don't stop. Their attitude is, most people would rather go than stop, so why waste a lot of time and money on the brakes. Most people who do end up buying Subarus keep a cinder block tied to a rope on the floor that they can toss out the window to help in "emergency situations". Just think of all the new excitement in your life!
Dave B
Sorry, I just couldn't help myself, but sheesh, if the brakes didn't work, don't you think there'd be, oh, maybe something in the news about it????
As the others mentioned, the brakes are good to go. A while back now, but there was some discussions on this. Post #24 is a good point to start. Using the search feature below may help with your research,but it is a lot of reading. If you decide to purchase that Outback, and you have not read "ALL" of these posts, inform yourself and leave no stone unturned.
though you made me chuckle (ok, I admit I was LOL).
Chris (kyotz): The brakes are "soft" because Subaru uses a two-stage booster instead of a single-stage booster (Suburu isn't unique in this regard). Some think the brakes aren't firm enough, others think they're fine (some say Passat's are touchy, others don't). I would prefer firmer brakes, but I've never had trouble stopping with them. The brake feel didn't dissuade me or my wife from buying the car (it's her GT); I'm quite used to it. nvy's suggestion is a good one; thar's gold in them thar posts.
Don't quote me on this, but I believe that MB uses a two stage brake booster setup as well. Some people have commented (and I can confirm this from my own vehicles) that the brakes have about 0.5-1 inches of travel before they feel really effective.
Interestingly, the E-class and SLK-class are the only MB vehicles that I've driven which doesn't really seem to be affected this. It's quite obvious on the ML though, perhaps because the weight of the SUV exacerbates the effect; same goes for the large and heavy S and CL-class cars.
Drew P.S. I've been becoming more and more impressed with Subaru's hardware as I've discovered similarities between its vehicles and MBzs' vehicles.
We'll coerce you to buy one eventually! Maybe when a) your van begins to show its age and b) Subaru comes out with an Exiga-like vehicle (i.e., Outback w/3rd row of seats). Interesting that some MB models have "soft" brakes and some don't.
Comments
Nowadays, drums are mostly a cost cutting measure. In other countries, the same cars that are fitted with rear drums have rear disc brakes (partly to do with consumer acceptance and perception as well).
I once attempted to de-snorkus a Dodge Shadow (2.5L engine), and got mixed results. After talking to a knowledgeable mechanic, I found out that the computer was probably compensating for the increased air massflow by closing the air intake valve to keep the air/fuel ratio constant. So, instead of adding more fuel, it cut back on the air!! I guess it was programmed for economy. The mechanic said that a "performance chip" would likely help, by adjusting the fuel/air map to ratchet up the fuel flow to match the increase in cool air. Regardless, I thought it seemed a little faster! The enhanced vroom-vroom sound was cool too, and eliminated the need to make the motor noise with my lips . . . .
Craig
I actually think it falls inbetween, as a hybrid.
I also think the term "SUV" is a completely manufactured and artificial term. Why does a 2WD unibody Cherokee qualify? What about a FWD RAV4 or CR-V? Shouldn't it be a RAV2? What about a 4-wheel fully independent suspension-ed Hummer?
It's hard to even define an SUV. Let's say it's a full ladder frame truck, with 4WD and low range gearing, with a lockable center diff, and front and rear solid axles. Traditional SUV traits.
More than half of all SUVs don't meet these criteria. The base Trooper has (gasp!) 2WD and an independent front suspension! Heavens! And it's the epitome of an SUV!
Note that in other markets, Toyota uses SW4, for "station wagon 4WD", which is what they really are. Here the term "station wagon" gives people nightmares, but overseas they're seen as upscale and desireable.
SUV is just a clever marketing label.
-juice
Also, the point I was making was mainly dealing with dealers that sell the Forester along side the Escape and Tribute. When you can put the Forester right next to an Escape or Tribute -- many people (not people like us who examine every little detail), I think, will feel more comfortable with the size, features and price of the Escape and Tribute.
And... at Subaru/Mazda dealers and Subaru/Ford dealers, every Escape and Tribute purchase could/should be considered a lost Forester purchase.
Bob
Bob
It'll be cross shopped against the Cherokee (which is in big trouble) and the basic Blazer (which is getting updated in the nick of time).
For the most part, consumers either buy domestic or import name plates. The Forester is most often compared with CR-V and RAV4.
Here is a photo of my dad's new Outback.
Funny thing is, he was a dedicated Ford guy, having owned a Sable and two Tauri prior to this Soob. His work fleet included (over time) a Blazer, an Explorer, a Camry, and several Land Cruisers.
Yet he bought the Outback. Guess it's 'cause he's paying for the gas this time!
-juice
My wife is probably a good example: She is currently driving an old '91 Explorer. Unlike me, she could care less about cars. She wants something smaller than the Explorer, but not "too" much smaller. She likes the Forester, but is somewhat concerned that it might be too much smaller than what she is used to. Certainly she's driven our Subaru, and likes it.
When we get get ready to sell the old Explorer, and knowing her concerns, a new Forester will be a tougher sell (on my part), than will be the Escape or Tribute. And again, when she see the two side-by-side, it will be a tougher sell still.
Bob
Hope this helps and I'm sure everyone appreciates your effort.
TIA!
Drew
I don't think the Forester was designed for ex-Explorer owners moving down in size. The Outback, maybe. The Forester is for a ex-coupe owner looking to move up, or just starting a family.
Yeah, dad came from work, riding with me.
He bought the car and took it home as a surprise for my stepmom. She certainly was shocked and happy!
-juice
Who knows, we're still sometime away from that purchase decision. Anything could happen between now and then.
Bob
http://ctny.audiworld.com/events/000200qwds/000200qwds.html
I purchased my 2001-S Forester last week. Much of what I read here helped make that decision. It took the dealer a few days to add some options that I wanted and I picked it up on Sunday.
On the way home, I was nailed in the side by a 1 Ton 4x4 P/U (he ran a light). Amazingly, I wasn't hurt. Shaken up but not hurt. The Forester did not fair that well. Just got a call from my insurance co. .. it's totaled. There were 14 miles on the speedo! I really enjoyed the ride home (up to that point) seemed like a nice vehicle. I guess it had good brakes too.. never needed to find out. The truck eliminated any need for brakes. Guess it's time to go shopping again
takit.......
I hope you make out OK with the insurance company. The replacement value of a Forester with 14 miles on the odo should be pretty good!
Craig
Get another one! Maybe a different color, for luck?
-Colin
Like Hutch at Edmunds Live. He made me wet my pants in the competitors, which rolled onto their side walls and begged for mercy, but the Forester felt confident and fun at even higher speeds.
Drew: that school sounds like fun. It should be mandatory for drivers in the Snow Belt!
takit: glad you are OK. That poor Forester gave it's life for you!
Since you were not injured, I'd actually say it did fair well. Don't forget what's important is your safety! Crumple zones worked in your case.
How about a new one with the blazing Red color, so you're more visible?
-juice
Bob
-Bryan
I can't stand the Miata though, believe it or not. It's kinda fun but the non-tilting wheel smacks my thigh (yes the seat is back far enough) and the footwell is TINY. I like low-end torque too and it has none. Well, some compared to a Civic VX but none compared to the RS.
She wants her next vehicle to be a used 911 or an e36 3 series-- ideally an M3 but the 328 is powerful enough for her.
Oh yeah, and when I travel on business I let her use my car (which is preferred for hauling around town, especially with our dog) and I always notice that she gets bad gas mileage. I think she likes the boxer sound even more than I do!
-Colin
PS, here's the only thing we have done on our website... the dog's section. My wife was the developer, so go easy on her.
Cleo's site
-tlima
My older bro just received his 2001 Forester S Premium, just as promised three weeks ago when he put down an easy $100 deposit at Carlsen's Subaru Redwood City, CA on the inbound vehicle. No haggle $700 over invoice for the Premium ($500 over for regular S).
He's replacing a very very similar vehicle, a '91 Mazda Miata
I convinced him to buy Subaru, but couldn't get him to buy Outback. He was sold on the clean look of the Forester. I think he'll enjoy it.
DaveC.
Of course, we can't really afford it. Hmm...."Here honey, you take the OB, and I'll take this poor, used, RS in the paper here...:
-Frank P.
price of one. We'll almost. Glad you are ok.
but I've not been able to get her out again to ride, much less drive. in her defense, she is very busy with fulltime school and work...
-Colin
Colin-
Kirsten rode with the instructors after my first class with BMW CCA (I am the only member without a BMW; joined so I could take the driving classes). She had a blast, but not enough to ditch the Explorer for an '88 325 or '95 Imreza, or something moderately track-worthy.
I'll keep my eye out for messages from you folks. Please make sure you put Edmunds on the subject line so I can get to it quickly.
Thanks!
FWIW - Regarding the insurance, I had an associate whose car was wrecked by a snowplow driver on his way home from work during a storm. The guy slid across the road, and his plow took out the left side, while pushing him off the road and smashing the right side.
Plow driver's insurance tried to offer wholesale book value. My associate says something like, "Pay for a comparable car, with equal mileage and features, regardless of price, and I won't sue your a** off".
He got the car. Good luck, and stick to your guns. They definately owe you a new Forester.
Russ H.
-mike
NEways, welcome aboard. Not too many RS folks here, but Colin is always nearby....
It seemed a little weird to me at first the way they were set up in the 2000 Legacy, but now its not a problem. First of all, mounted on a slanted surface as they are, they go forward and back as much as they go up and down. However the trick is to not think about direction, but rather action. You still have to PUSH the switch to lock the door, just like you had to push the old fashioned manual buttons to lock your car. You still have to PULL the switch to unlock the door, just like you had to pull the buttons on older cars. In that respect it works just the same. Think PUSH PULL, not up down. Hey, it works for me!
Dave B
Randy
1) On initial start-up there is a fair "shake" from the engine. My thinking is that some of the cylinders catch fire before the others causing the shake. Once they all "catch", it's smoother than I would expect from a 4-cyl. Is this normal?
2) The Forester I test drove (115 mi on it) seemed to have a "smoother" auto transmission. My car seems to "bump" (i.e, seems to upshift early, then downshift) a bit on moderate acceleration. I know the transmission has to learn your driving style. Any idea how long this will take?
Other than this, I really like it. Gave my brother (traditional SUV driver) a test ride. You should have seen the frightful look on his face when I entered a 90 degree right hot and how quickly his expression turned to amazement as we exited. It's going to be tough getting thru the break-in period.
Thanks,
-Tony
My wife and I like the OB - alot. But, my wife thinks the brakes feel "soft" - to the point that she is concerned about whether or not the car will stop. I must admit I am a bit concerned on this point as well. Is the braking system safe? Why are they soft? Is it something that can be fixed?
Next question, for those of you who have the auto tranny: With this engine do you feel you have adequate power with the auto? Is it better to go with the 5 spd?
Thanks in advance for you help,
A future Crew member ( I hope)
The AWD systems are also very different in the two transmissions (the 5 speed uses viscous coupling, while the automatic uses a mechanical clutch)
-- ash
While I'm not a "fast" driver, I do love to play in the corners. The Forester handling is most enjoyable .. in wet conditions even more so. One of my favorite games is to let some big ol' tank come rolling up on me and then lead em' into some curves at speed. Initially, they try to keep up .. but soon disappear
Kyotz - Soob's have great brakes! My Forester's brakes seem to have a little more travel than other vehicles I've owned .. but I got use to them very quickly. I would suggest that you find an empty parking lot somewhere and do a few panic stops from 40mph or so to assure yourself of what your OB is capable of. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Bob
thinks the brakes feel "soft" - to the point that
she is concerned about whether or not the car will
stop. I must admit I am a bit concerned on this
point as well. Is the braking system safe? <<
Subaru is well known the world over for making cars that don't stop. Their attitude is, most people would rather go than stop, so why waste a lot of time and money on the brakes. Most people who do end up buying Subarus keep a cinder block tied to a rope on the floor that they can toss out the window to help in "emergency situations". Just think of all the new excitement in your life!
Dave B
Sorry, I just couldn't help myself, but sheesh, if the brakes didn't work, don't you think there'd be, oh, maybe something in the news about it????
to start. Using the search feature below may help
with your research,but it is a lot of reading. If
you decide to purchase that Outback, and you
have not read "ALL" of these posts, inform yourself and leave no stone unturned.
Hope the best for you!
Chris (kyotz): The brakes are "soft" because Subaru uses a two-stage booster instead of a single-stage booster (Suburu isn't unique in this regard). Some think the brakes aren't firm enough, others think they're fine (some say Passat's are touchy, others don't). I would prefer firmer brakes, but I've never had trouble stopping with them. The brake feel didn't dissuade me or my wife from buying the car (it's her GT); I'm quite used to it. nvy's suggestion is a good one; thar's gold in them thar posts.
..Mike
..Mike
Take care.
Joe W.
Interestingly, the E-class and SLK-class are the only MB vehicles that I've driven which doesn't really seem to be affected this. It's quite obvious on the ML though, perhaps because the weight of the SUV exacerbates the effect; same goes for the large and heavy S and CL-class cars.
Drew
P.S. I've been becoming more and more impressed with Subaru's hardware as I've discovered similarities between its vehicles and MBzs' vehicles.
..Mike
..Mike