Subaru Crew - Meet The Members

miksmi

I scoured the 2000 Outback and Legacy brochures and they don't say much. The OB (7.3") is 1" taller than the GT (6.3"). The GT has a "sport tuned" suspension. I had no clue what that was until I took through some twisties. Overall, the GT suspension is stiffer (don't know if it's springs, struts, or a combination) than an OB. It really sticks to the road, even with the Potenza RE92's, which everyone seems to dislike (I am tire-savvy impaired). I can't wait to take it out on the track on 13 October!

I realize I'm not being very specific Ken, but it is my final answer.

..Mike

paisan

i've used it before. It only works if you are meticulous(sp) about keeping your car clean, which in NYC is next to impossible. I found it just makes them cloudy by catching all the dirt in the air... Maybe they have a new formula now...

-mike

kens

Mike,

Thanks for the answer. That's about all the info I have on the differences too. I'm guessing the OB comes with softer springs and a longer travel set-up. Just wanted to see if anyone might know the specific differences.

Ken

rsholland

This suspension question sounds like something Patti might be able to answer.

How about it Patti, what's the scoop here?

Bob

ateixeira

I'm with tincup on about the CHMSL (center high-mounted stop light) and DRLs. There's just too much "noise" that people learn to filter out.

Oh well, it's moot, they're law. Hopefully motorcyclists will learn to wear neon yellow leathers. Colin has a point, over half of motorcycle accidents are with 1st year (i.e. inexperienced) riders.

Gordo: welcome aboard. Share a photo?

paisan: yeah, I reapply each time I wash it. You do have to keep using it.

Ken: the tires alone account for 88% of the difference in clearance (0.876" our of 1"). That means the Outback's springs are only very slightly taller, and probably softer in order to absorb bumps better.

The GT has shorter, firmer springs. Both have gas shocks, I believe.

-juice

aling

Thanks for checking on the video footage! And oh, I agree with Mike on the rear wiper issue for the sedans. When I was in Malaysia a few years ago (and more recently Japan), I saw quite a few sedans with both the rear defroster & the rear wiper (option, I think - quite a few on the Nissan Cefiros, aka Maxima here in North America)). Makes perfect sense to me...besides, it would be nice if Subaru came up with another unique option (so simple that others would wonder why they didn't think of it first) in this already saturated market.

Drew

rsholland

I agree, all vehicles, not just wagons and hatchbacks, should have them.

Bob

c_hunter

Juice: I've found that rubbing a dry windshield with newspaper seems to have the same effect as applying Rain-X, only it's a little cheaper. I think it's something in the ink that rubs off onto the glass.

I always meant to do a side to side comparison, but haven't gotten around to it.

Craig

fayes

I'm a little late on this, but here's my wish list for the Forester, after I've had mine for a month.
1. Auto down (and up)for all windows, or at least both front windows. An auto open/close for the sunroof (like the Passat) would be nice, too. Retain power for the windows and sunroof for a few minutes after turning the ignition off.
2. Automatic speed-sensitive radio volume adjustment. OK, I don't know what the right name is for this, but my Saab would gradually increase the radio volume as vehicle speed increased, and then decrease the volume as speed decreased. With the Forester, I gradually increase the volume myself, and then wonder why the radio is so loud when I slow down.
3. Interior (dome) light automatically turns on when key is removed from the ignition, then gradually fades out. This is another feature I liked about my Saab. I know, I can turn on the light by opening the door, but in some weather, it's nice to gather your "stuff" before letting the cold/heat/wind in.
4. A/T gear display in the dash.
5. Regarding clock location: I'd prefer it in the upper dash. I like an analog clock, too.
6. Regarding DRL's: I'm undecided on these. My Saab's DRL's were just like turning the low beams on - you got taillights, side marker lights, dash lights, everything. I hated them at first, but then I got used to never having to turn on the switch unless I needed the high beams.
7. Steering wheel telescope, as well as tilt.
8. A little more rear seat room would be nice. But, hey, this gets me off the hook when my sisters and brother want to go somewhere with all their kids (the relatively tight rear seat will go a long way towards keeping the Forester interior clean ).

These are all pretty petty things. I'm very happy with the Forester. And I certainly don't miss the cable clutch in that Saab!

Faye

aling

Oh one important point...if these improvements do make it to the final design, please try to keep the price increase minimal. I know many people already have a mental block spending over $32K+ for the H6 VDC wagon just because it's a Subaru. I've driven the H6 wagon, so I know that its worth almost every penny. But still...

paisan

I believe NO SUBARUs come with gas shocks. I remember reading it somewhere that none of the subies had em and that a good first upgrade is to gas shocks.

-mike

locke2c

That's not true Paisan. The 2.5RS comes with gas shocks, but unfortunately they are dual-tubed. This decreases the effective piston area, which descreases the control on damping, and makes it possible for the strut to foam during heavy use.

-Colin

ateixeira

Craig: dry? That's funny, I've seen people use newspaper to dry a wet windshield after a wash. I prefer a squeegee.

I believe my Forester also has gas shocks.

Patti: my biggest suggestions is to maintain the intangible "character" unique to Subaru. Saab has been watered down too much by GM. Same with Ford and Jaguar.

No vanilla rental cars, please!

-juice

ateixeira

I know this is slightly off-topic, but it may prove recalls are contagious. Ford and Kona are recalling the mountain bikes that came with the Focus Kona edition because the crank bolts could fall off.

Maybe they used the same bolts Ford used for the Escape's steering wheel! )

Back to Subaru. Automotive News reports SIA is expanding capacity at the Lafayette plant, including engine production.

The 3.0l is made in Japan, but that must mean the 2.5l in the Forester and Impreza will now be made here. Could Forester/Impreza production also shift to the US?

-juice

locke2c

Hope so, it would mean lower prices or at least steady prices and increased features.

-Colin

kens

juice,

LOL on the steering wheel.

When is the VDC/LL Bean model supposed to sell? I know some people are already taking deliveries of other 2001s.

aling

If Forester/Impreza production shifts to North America, I wonder if the prices will decrease since the tariff imposed on imported vehicles will no longer be applicable.

rsholland

...the increased production capacity is geared towards the new OutBRAT pickup, since it's being built off the OutBACK platform.

Bob

paisan

Since we have your ear... When/if/could SOA do a pilgrimage thing like Saturn did/does? I'd personally love something along those lines, with corporate sponsorship to get a ton of subarus together, and we won't get stuck in a wet field like the saturns did

-mike

ateixeira

Good question and I just found the answer, Ken. Job 1 (i.e. the first build date) for the 2001 Legacy 4 was 5/25. They were in dealers by the end of July.

Job 1 for the H6 is...drum roll please...8/15! They're already making them! They could potentially arrive in dealers by the end of September!

Sorry to put the pressure on, Patti.

Colin (re: 1172) - they've been doing that for the last few years. Keep it up!

That's right, Drew. That would hopefully mean similar prices for the new models.

paisan: they do! Let's hit the Subaru Outback Rendezvous in Virginia on September 9! It's only here and in Colorado, but still.

Free kayaking, canoeing, and mountain biking test ride. Plus fly fishing lessons, rock climbing. I'm there!

-juice

aling

Okay, here's what I've noted in my observations today. All Subarus - Forester, Legacy, Outback, Justy, Loyale - prior to MY2000 (and from MY1989 onwards) have DRLs which activate all of the exterior lamps. However, starting from '00, it seems that Subaru switched to reduced intensity low beam headlamps only DRLs. I've no idea why they would do this since the previous arrangement makes more sense to me (drivers from behind can see you too).

Drew

mccrair

Thanks for your help Patti!

MCC

bg18947

I'm paying about $1000/year for insurance on my 2000 Legacy GT Ltd, and only $700/year on my 2000 Honda Odyssey EX (same exact coverage with a clean record thru AIG). The Odyssey cost more than the Legacy. This is in New Jersey with the highest insurance cost in the country. Are other people paying a lot for insuring their Legacies?

I can't imagine why it cost so much more. Legacies did well in crash test, aren't that fast, and do not appear in the list of top 10 stolen cars. The Odyssey did extremely well in crash test, is faster (auto vs auto), and not desirable for car thieves. What gives?

amishra

Subaru's are known to generally cost more than the average vehicle to repair. Also the GT is likely rated differently (sportier?) than the minivan.

Here's a Canadian site I use that shows the average cost of collision and theft claims:

http://www.vicc.com/English/MeasureUpContent98.htm

-- ash

cburian

Lots of talk about these... they seem stupid because if you want the lights on, then drive with the lights on. The light switch on our Loyale is never off. However, I don't see on the 2001 models the "Headlight Auto-Off w/Ignition Switch"
Please don't tell me that this great feature has been eliminated.

I'll also really miss the auto-up power window. They should have added that to the passenger side rather than deleting it from the driver's side. Same with all locks with driver's side key--should be made all doors open with key in either side, not eliminated.

Oh, and the thing that's REALLY got to be fixed are the abusive seat bolsters. The metal rods gouge into my legs. A wide, flat seat is a comfortable seat. The seats in the Loyale are way more comfy because they've got tons of padding in the bolsters. I travel a lot and have driven half a dozen brands, Contour, Taurus, Stratus, Impala, Daewoo, etc. Subaru is UNIQUE in having really terrible seats that hurt my back and thighs--no other carmaker has this problem.

To add a touch of class, an auto shifter on the column would be nice. Floor mounted shifters aren't sporty-looking, just cheap-looking. Other niceties on my wishlist: auto seat and mirror adjustment with personalized key, rear windows that roll all the way down, front sunroof that completely opens.

Sorry to burst in here with a bunch of ranting, but it makes me sad that so many features of my Loyale that I like are gone in Subaru's new premium-priced cars. I'm buying one next year (waiting for the 6-cyl in a non-boutique model).

aling

Ugh, yuck, spit...column mounted shifter is sportier than the floor mounted shifter? Are you kidding me? ;-) I have a minivan, and it has a column mounted shifter! Certainly not sporty, not fun, just functional and necessary for the pass through. Also, I don't see how it would be classy. None of the expensive European or Japanese luxury cars don't have column mounted shifters (except maybe the column mounted shift lever on the Toyota Avalon with the front bench seat option).

If you notice, all cars with the auto up windows nowadays have pinch protection. I'm guessing for safety reasons, but more importantly liability reasons.

With the raised raised roofline, I don't think it is possible for the moonroof to ever be able to retract. The current setup seems great to me.

Just my 2 cents Canaian!
Drew

armac13

auto-off is present on my MY01 Forester. Column shifter - yuk. Auto up windows and up with key out - please. I find the seats comfortable for long drives - no sore back, a rarity for me.

Ross

rsholland

...for a column shifter is on a mini van (where a walk-pass-through is wanted), or where 3-across front seating is necessary. The linkage is far more complicated and expensive than that of a direct floor mounted linkage.

Bob

rsholland

A number of folks have chimed in here for future upgrades, so I thought I'd add some more. In addition there has been a lot of discussion recently about trailer towing, mainly between Juice and myself. I recently brought my trailer over to his house, and hooked it up to his Forester. Juice has posted the results in several areas, which you may have seen.

Trailer towing with a Subarus is marginal, at best. This is odd since Subaru markets many of its vehicles as "utility-oriented." Here are some suggestions that I would like to see SOA implement ASAP.

1.
All 4-cylinder Subarus (including Imprezas and Outback Sports) should be rated for 2000 lbs. (Class I), whether the trailer has brakes or not.

2.
All 6-cylinder Subarus should be rated for 3500 lbs. (Class II), whether the trailer has brakes or not. The new V-6 Escape/Tribute is rated thusly. Also, all new Volvo V70 wagons come with a 3300 lb. tow capacity.

3.
As you know Subaru currently limits trailer towing to 1000 lbs. if the trailer doesn't have brakes. Well, here in the state of Maryland, only trailers rated at 3000 lbs. and over are required to have brakes. Therefore, finding a trailer that has a under 3000 GVW rating - and with brakes - is very difficult. Mainly because light-duty trailers (Class I) are very price-sensitive. Adding brakes to Class I trailers is, for the most part, just not cost-effective. Subaru should do whatever is necessary to the vehicles to remove this "without brakes" limitation - at the very least.


4.
All Foresters and Outbacks should come with a "standard" hitch receiver (with wiring) as standard. The new 2002 Explorer 4-door comes standard with a Class II receiver, which can be upgraded to tow over 7000 lbs. A hitch receiver is also standard on the Navigator, and several other SUVs as well.

5.
The receiver should be integrated into the rear bumper like that of the Lincoln Navigator, the Jeep Grand Cherokee, and the new 2002 Ford 4-door Explorer.

Bob

tlima

Bought a '01 Forester L Auto in Silverthorn Metallic this morning. Paid about 2.5 % above invoice, but I had a trade-in, which places the real number in the gray area. I've been lurking here for a while, and was going to buy a '01 Legacy Sedan. The test drive (that's another story!), this owners club, and the versatility really sold me on the Forester.

Options include: Non-factory Keyless and Alarm (cheaper and lifetime warranty), cargo cover (came with car, but would have purchased from Darlene anyway), and side underguard bars (I saw them on the lot and not only do they look good, they'll function as a step when tying down the kayaks).

Anyhow, I need to plug the dealership: Metro Subaru in Somerset, Ma. Good people (seemingly honest and open) with a very relaxed attitude.

I'll be customizing it with some additional goodies once the car comes in...

-tlima

originalbitman

I have a 00 Legacy GT wagon insured with State Farm for $600/yr. Full coverage with $500 deductible collision and $100k/300k liability. While shopping for the Soob I priced insurance on a Volvo GT wagon and it was just about the same.


Bitman

originalbitman

So I finally had a chance to install the Blaupunkt Nevada CD receiver in my 00 Leagacy GT wagon. Much easier than I imagined. The dash came apart without a hitch. And swapping the Soob cassette receiver with the Blau was simple. In fact sodering the wiring harness from the Blau to the pigtail harness for the Soob (from Crutchfield) took more time than everything else. Sounds awesome!

Thanks to everyone for their help and if anyone else is considering the same please let me know and I will be glad to give some pointers.

Bitman

austriash1

I agree with rsholland's post 1185. Everyone on my street tows something - utility, skidoo, tent, hardside, glider, or boat trailers; this is an opportunity to differentiate the brand more. One reason I'm about to buy a Subaru is the tow capacity - but I'd be happier if it were higher! My trailer is 1300 lbs - with hydraulic brakes. I especially second suggestion to have standard hitch and wiring.
Dan

c_hunter

Glad the stereo install went well! If you have any pics of the Nevada in the dash, I'd be interested in seeing them.

Craig

miksmi

Bob, your inductive reasoning produced an organized list of cogent suggestions, as usual. Well done; hope your comments make it to a decision-maker.

Tony, congratulations and welcome, fellow software enginerd! Home-brewed beer, mmm. What brand alarm did you buy and what was the cost?

Bitman, You know juice wants photos to build our knowledge base! Glad the installation went smoothly.

..Mike

rsholland

Does your trailer weigh 1300lbs, or is that the GVW? If it's the GVW, I'm surprised that it would have brakes.

Bob

lucien2

glad it went o.k. I agree, the soldering took mre time than anything else. Sounds pretty kewl, huh?

rsholland

Thanks!

Bob

paisan

The Subaru Fishing, Hiking, outdoors stuff is great, but I have no desire to really do that. I'd rather see the SIA plant, and talk cars and stuff, rather than kyak with some SOA paid consultants (I doubt SOA actually has experts on staff in those areas and besides they wouldn't know a subaru from a hole in the wall) Just my 2 cents...

=mike

originalbitman

I have one unanswered question regarding my Blaupunkt install in my 00 Legacy. Everything is great except the pigtail harness from Crutcfield only had a pin out for non dimming illumination. It's fine like it is... actually look rather nice but I would love to have it dim with the other instrument lights. There was one unused pin on the connecter and now I would like to find out if that wire might be the dimming lead for the illumination since the OE receiver did dim. Anyone know the wiring on 00 legacys or know where I might get the info? I suspect the pigtail connector from Crutchfield might be from an earlier model since they didn't seem to really know what would fit my 00.

Thanks!

Bit

tlima

Alarm purchased was a Pursuit 9344 with the keyless entry option. Cost was $218 installed. The Subaru system is $222 invoice (keyless and alarm), but dealer had to buy the parts and install (they quoted me $300). I got a quote from Darlene (QSubaru) and parts only cost would be ~$250.

-tlima

c_hunter

If you see no effect on radio brightness when using the dimmer, then the Subaru probably sends its dimmer control through a separate wire (instead of just varying the voltage of the illumination lead). If that's the case, I bet that extra lead is for dimmer control, and should match up with the Nevada's dimmer lead. Of course, this is conjecture, so I don't know for sure. Try calling Crutchfield and talk to one of their tech support people -- they would probably know.

Craig

originalbitman

Yeah... I'm going to talk to Crutchfield. I am laready in contact with them regarding the misinformation in their "What Fits" database regarding the 2000 Subarus. But since the connector on the Soob wiring harness that my Blau now connects to is the same that the OE receiver connected to (and it dimmed) I can only assume that one of those leads must be the dimmer lead and it is likely to be the only lead not currently used. This connector is all that was attached to the OE unit.

Bit

grahampeters

Well, why not plug in a multimeter, set to resistance measure and try adjusting the light brightness on the dash?

Cheers

Graham

grahampeters

The other posssible is that the lead to the radio may be the signal line from the phone (fitted to earlier blaupunkts) which takes a signal from a handsfree kit when the phone rings or is in use. This kills the sound from the radio. Mind you, my radio is now six years old and there is probably a trendier way to do it.

Cheers

Graham

miksmi

Tony, sounds like you got a good deal! Thanks!

there is probably a trendier way to do it.

Hehe, good one, Graham. Are you telling me enginerds aren't satisfied sticking with a design that works? Good suggestion, by the way.

..Mike

originalbitman

Crutchfield's tech support told me the Subaru lead for dash light dimming is black with white stripe. I then spoke with Blau tech support and they said the dimming lead on the unit's harness is only used for illumination when the HU is set to illuminate when turned off but dash lights are on. When turned on the HU gets it's illumination from the power lead and is not dimmable. Even though I am a master now of dash disassembly I don't think it is worth it for this.

Bit

c_hunter

Well, that sounds like a stupid design. It almost makes me doubt what Blau tech support said -- it just doesn't make sense they would design it like that. Maybe it's confusion (on Blau's part) distinguishing between fixed-brightness LCD display on/off illumination and dimmed button backlighting. They are usually somewhat independent.

If you turn the radio on, and then turn the vehicle lights on, do you see any difference in the display illumination brightness, or is it just the button lights that come on?

Craig

hardenbr

I've been lurking for a couple of month's (since my wife got her Legacy Brighton Wagon in June). This is a great forum. The folks here seem very thoughtful in their opinions, yet respective of others.
I have been looking for a reason to jump into the discussion. I found it. I couldn't agree more with the comments regarding towing. I'd love to replace my S10 Pickup with a Forester next year, but I tow a boat and a utility trailer. I don't have access to the GVWR at the moment, but the boat, trailer, motor, and fishing "stuff" runs about 1600 lbs. The utility trailer weighs a few hundred empty, and is rated for about 1000 lbs, putting it above the magic 1000 lbs. Neither has brakes (I have never seen brakes on trailers this light).

I appreciate the comments regarding Subaru upgrading the brakes (or whatever needs be done to increase the rating to 2K w/o trailer brakes), but I've had experience with some car companies grossly over-rating their towing capacities, and others taking an extremely conservative view. Subaru's ratings may, or may not, bear out in the real world. I'd love to hear some real experiences regarding towing with a Subaru before I put my money down. What's the most anyone out there currently tows? What type of driving? How does it work? Thanks in advance.

rsholland

I think this towing issue is something Subaru is going to have to address - and soon. More and more vehicle manufacturers are discovering "The Beauty of AWD," and offer more for the same or less money.

A good example is the new Escape/Tribute offers a Class II (3500 GVW) tow package, with or without brakes. My understanding is that this tow package comes standard with the 3.0 V6. All for under $22K.

Subaru will need to do more to set itself apart from the others in the not to distant future. Improving the towing capacity is a good place to start.

Bob