I was checking in periodically, and I noticed a few things in new soft that I did not like: a) the name of the poster was not hyperlinked to the profile. In fact, it was hard to see the poster's name at all, as it was squeezed between bold-faced prepositions By and On (why to boldface the least informative pieces of information?) b) search engine apparently runs on ASP, meaning on NT machine meaning it will be slow and unreliable (sorry to all you Microsoft lovers out there ;-). c) the board was still not thread-based, that means that essentially there were no major functionality improvement.
WellEngaged feels ancient but it's at least reliable (from the end-user standpoint), and I'll take reliability over flashiness any time (this why I buy Subarus)
--Kate (who already insulted Paul Hogan and now is ready to take on Bill Gates)
I've just logged on with the new Well Engaged software in place, and don't see any difference, and/or improvements. Still no dictionary or (easy) bold/italic/color capability for posters.
Kate, the frontend of the search engine may well be an active server page, but that does not necessarily mean that the index server is Microsoft.
I do agree with your underwhelmed response to the new software. Did you look at the profiles? They sucked! Not customized for our application at all, just a generic -- who, phone number, and plaintext comment box. Not even an HTML comment box!
even with the old software. I have been going through withdrawal for the past several days. Some people can't wake up without their coffee. With me it has become my town halls. :-)
Even if search.asp? page was only a front-end to a powerful SQL db that still means there is an IIS server in between, and that -- unless it's a the screaming super-duper hardware-level- fault-tolerant cluster of powerful well-configured and well-managed NTs -- can be a bottleneck.
I agree with misksmi that well-managed NT server can beat a poorly managed UNIX, but from my experience I found that it's much easier to bring down NT than UNIX. Also, I found a lot more jerks working with NT than with UNIX (easy to get MS certification?)
BTW, I finally got my armrest installed in my Forester! What a joy! am I back on topic? :-)
Hoo doggies, was I jonesing for this forum. The methodone that is i-Club just wasn't the same. Too many kids, I guess, at least at times. It is funny to read the tone of all the posts over there, and then along comes ColinL (hmm, who could that be) who, at what, 26 or 27, sounds like a wizened old Nobel Prize winner. I'm 30, but I just have to chuckle anyway, as this voice of concise reason, knowledge, and lack of boy racer ego comes rolling out of Kansas!
Anyway, I get completely ignored there, so I do't try too hard to keep up with it.
Willickers, mikesmith, back to the html freestyle with a vengeance, aren't we? And in some sort of strange foreign language, no less?
At the ripe old age of 26, I got into quite a few spats with the kids over there. It then moved too quickly for me to keep up. (although I have logged over 900 posts there )
They mostly (and I'm generalizing here) feel the impreza is/was/always will be the Be all and end all of cars.
For those interested, the News & Views topic More Talk to the Hosts describes why the Well Engaged software is being replaced. Also, the new software will re-set all your topics to all New posts; see >. Most inconvenient.
Lucien, the signal to noise ratio at the iclub does seem really low at times... but there are some really well informed participants there that chime in fairly regularly. The board itself is going through some tough times, but it'll pass.
Things move fast there, and I like the (usually) slower pace here. When things move fast here, or I can't check it for a few days, it is a real pain to catch up though. On the iclub the threaded discussions make following a single topic easy.
I agree with paisan, there are a lot of narrowminded people on the iclub. There are a few sane ones though.
Anyway... I missed all of you too. I saw juice on the miataforum asking a few questions. Didn't post in any of the threads he did tho, I mainly just lurk on the miataforum.
Many micro$oft certifications are easy to get, but some of the newer ones that are adaptive and the console simulators are challenging.
I've met many MCSEs that were utterly clueless. (I work with some!) I've also sat in seminars and even training classes where the instructor is clueless.
I'm finally (we've been back for 2 weeks) getting around to posting a report on our trip to Utah. I'll post the full version below, but it's going to be ludicrously long, so here are the at-a-glance highlights: The Vehicle: 1998 Forester L with auto. The Trip: My girlfriend and I made a two-week trip from Austin, TX, to visit friends in Moab, UT, with extensive sidetrips in New Mexico, Colorado and Arizona. The Distance: 3,230 miles roundtrip. The MPG: Averaged around a somewhat disappointing 23 mpg. The State That Seemed To Have The Most Subarus: Colorado.
*Note: To avoid my admittedly long-winded travelogue, just look for the kinda on-topic paragraphs about Subarus marked with asterisks.
We left Austin just before 4 p.m on Oct. 8, headed northwest. *Once we were out of the Austin area, Subarus became rare enough that we started a little road game, "Spot the Subie," in which the first one of us to see a fellow Subaru would yell, "Subaru!" ("Forester!" or "Outback!" were also good responses). From Central Texas, across the South Plains and on into southeastern New Mexico, we scored very few Subaru sightings. We stopped for the first night at the small town of Post (about 40 miles south of Lubbock) where we stayed at the Hotel Garza, a 1915 railroad hotel that's now a B&B. The little hotel is a bit rustic, but in a nicely Old West sort of way. It's an excellent bargain, with the only downside being that it is right next to the railroad tracks, so you could hear late-night freight trains rumble by. The next day we cruised across the Texas Panhandle and eastern New Mexico, driving to Taos via Las Vegas, N.M. (we made it a point to bypass Albuquerque because friends told us the Big I -- construction work on the intersection of I-40 and I-25 -- has been a terrible mess). We spent the night at the Taos Inn, in a room that was part of a small turn-of-the-century adobe home. The room was exceedingly nifty, but I'd still have to say that this hotel was rather seriously overpriced. *Subaru sightings began picking up considerably as we had approached Taos and remained fairly common as we made our way through northern New Mexico. We spent most of the next morning at the Taos Pueblo (I've been there before, but Christine hadn't). After leaving the pueblo, we made a short, obligatory stop on the Rio Grande Gorge Bridge just west of Taos, then took a strikingly beautiful drive on US 64 through the western half of Carson Nat'l Forest to Tierra Amarilla, where we stopped briefly so Christine could shop for weavings (found absolutely nothing that we could afford). I'd been looking forward to the next stage of the trip, the drive from Chama on across southwest Colorado, but it started raining fairly heavily on us even before we reached Pagosa Springs, Colo. Though I felt relatively safe in our Forester, it was still miserable enough driving on the winding, hilly and unfamilar roads that I couldn't enjoy whatever scenery was visible through the downpour. The rain began easing up around Cortez, but by then it was getting dark anyway, so we continued on through intermittent showers to Moab. *One thing that was reasonably easy to see in southwestern Colorado were Subarus. They were so ubiquitous on the Colorado roads that we finally gave up on our "Spot the Subie" game. *Our first full day in Moab was the only time we gave the Forester a slow-speed workout. Wendy, our hostess, led us out on a scenic drive a little ways along what she called the River Road beside the Colorado River, and then on a rougher stretch of dirt road along Kane Creek to a high overlook called Hurrah Pass. Not actual off-roading, but certainly a bit of fairly rough-roading. The Subaru handled it all with great aplomb, never even vaguely threatening to bottom out. Most of the rest of our rough-road outings, we took our friends' new-ish Toyota RAV4 -- partly because of the RAV4's slightly higher ground clearance, but mostly because our host, Eric, was driving since he was the only one who knew exactly where we were going. *We spent some time comparing their RAV4 with our Forester: The RAV4 won on most off-roading points, but Eric admitted to preferring the Subaru's engine power, handling and highway ride. The Forester's back seat also was a tad roomier (but neither was enormously comfy packed with two adults and a child seat on a 120-mile daytrip). Our friends showed us around Arches Nat'l Park (I was most impressed by Double Arch), and a few of the highlights of Canyonlands Nat'l Park -- Canyonlands seems much too vast to cover thoroughly unless you devote the bulk of your vacation to it. We also made a quick stop at the adjacent Dead Horse Point State Park, which is terrifically scenic. Our friends (one of whom is an archaeologist with the National Park Service) also took us on a day hike down into a canyon on BLM land west of Blandings, which was just filled with 13th-century cliff dwellings and had a few Anasazi stone towers along the rim. There are few things more humbling than worrying intensely about scrambling up a large, very steep boulder along a high canyon wall, then watching your best friend not only nonchalantly climb over it, but do so with his 2-year-old daughter dozing peacefully in the L.L. Bean baby pack on his back. *Moab had a lot of Subarus per capita -- although a lot of them had out-of-state plates, rather than belonging to locals. Moab is a major mecca for mountain bikers, and I noted that the Impreza Sport Wagon seemed to be the preferred vehicle of the mountain biking set. I didn't get to find out if that's because it's viewed as notably cooler than the Outback or Forester, or just because it's the most affordable of the Subaru wagons for a young person on a budget. We left Moab on Oct. 16 and drove back into Colorado to Mesa Verde Nat'l Park, where we spent the night in the Farview Lodge. Christine and I both really liked the lodge; the rooms aren't special -- just motel units without TVs or phones -- but we had a wonderful view (in the morning, a small herd of wild horses came grazing right by our window). Also, the lodge's restaurant was quite good, though a tad pricey. We had wondered about how bad this summer's fire damage would be. Much of the northern part of the park was thoroughly blackened, but the parts of the park where we visited archaeological sites were all unscathed. We spent a very busy day at Mesa Verde. The ruins at Mesa Verde might not be quite as impressive in scale as, say, New Mexico's Chaco Canyon, but the sheer variety was stunning. We rolled west into Arizona the following day, with a brief jog up to the Four Corners Monument. It's only worth a short stop for a goofy photo op, but it WAS a hoot to drive slowly around the marker as Christine yelled, "OK, we're still in New Mexico, oh, now we're in Colorado, and now we're in Utah annndddd now back in Arizona." We looped back up into southern Utah, via the town of Bluff, and then down into Monument Valley. I'm glad to have finally seen Monument Valley in person, after decades of seeing it in movies, but the scenery didn't beat Arches or Canyonlands. In fact, we found the badlands before we got to Monument Valley (just north of Mexican Hat) more exotic -- it looked all for the world like the backdrops in the old "Roadrunner"/"Wile E. Coyote" cartoons. We visited to the old Gouldings Lodge and Trading Post, where we enjoyed seeing a lot of old movie paraphernalia, before continuing south into Arizona. We drove on to Chinle and the entrance to Canyon de Chelly Nat'l Monument right after dark. At Canyon de Chelly, we stayed at the Navajo-operated Thunderbird Lodge, which was extremely nice, except for a bit of trouble with hot water in our room (the lodge blamed it on their "historic plumbing"). Of all the places we visited on the Navajo reservation, the Thunderbird Lodge's gallery offered the best-quality Navajo arts and crafts we saw on this trip, with especially fine rugs. Of course, this quality meant we couldn't afford any of it, but I did buy a very nice silver-and-turquoise necklace for Christine from a Navajo silversmith we met while in Chinle. We did the hike to the White House cliff dwelling down in the canyon the next morning, hit a few scenic overlooks and then headed west into Hopiland in the afternoon. I've been to Canyon de Chelly before, and I think Christine wasn't that impressed having just been to Mesa Verde two days before, but she did think the canyon scenery was pretty. Our next stop was the Hopi pueblo of Walpi, high atop First Mesa. I'd been there once before, but really wanted to visit another still-occupied, living Indian pueblo after having spent so much time at ancient Indian ruins. And Christine had never even met any Hopis before, so she found it pretty interesting. There were also some good pottery bargains, and we bought a quite nice shallow bowl from an extremely old Hopi lady at Walpi (also got to glimpse her pueblo home's kitchen -- no running water or electricity, but she did have sheet linoleum on the floor). We also made a quick stop at the Hopi Indian Cultural Center's small museum at Second Mesa, before turning around. We were trying to make it to Ganado, Ariz., to visit the old Hubbel Trading Post, but it was closed by the time we got there. We spent the night in Gallup, N.M., staying at what's become our favorite classic Route 66 accommodation, the 1930s-era El Rancho Hotel, which was a hangout for visiting movie crews for decades. An exceedingly offbeat place, probably not to everyone's taste since it has certainly seen better days, but we love it. We got a late start the next morning, and lit out across New Mexico, going from Gallup to the historic town (I think the entire town is an officially designated national historic site) of Lincoln. We stayed the night at the Casa de Patron, a B&B in an 1850s adobe building where Billy the Kid was reputedly held for a few nights under house arrest while negotiating with the governor for a pardon. It was a nifty house, though one of those B&Bs where you feel a bit like you're staying in someone's guest bedroom. (My experience has been that tends to bother your average guy -- myself certainly included -- while most women, like Christine, feel totally comfortable with it). That evening, we drove over into the nearby tiny town of Tinnie for supper, where we dined at a general store that has been enlarged into a large rambling Victorian eatery, which apparently attracts a fair bit of well-heeled travelers from Ruidoso. The food was pretty good. The next morning we toured Lincoln, where I tried to indoctrinate Christine into Billy the Kid lore and the history of the 1870's Lincoln County War. Around noon, we reluctantly climbed back into Forester and launched into the long drive home, making it through West Texas, via Big Spring and San Angelo, to Austin in a little over 10 hours. Whew! Congrats if you really read all this -- though I have to wonder if ya didn't have anything better to do with your time ... ;-)
Lucien -- I can't download a plugin; the version of Netscape I use is so old it does not have plugins! (Yeah, I know, I know... :-) )
All -- for threaded discussions, why not just create a moderated newsgroup? See news:alt.autos.subaru for an example of an unmoderated newsgroup -- high volume, lots of noise, not quite so much information. Note that using a web browser to read newsgroups is not at all optimal; I like to compare it to reading a book by projecting it onto the big displays at a stadium, rather than curling up in a comfy chair by the fireplace (using trn, slrn, etc.).
Texsubaru -- sounds like a nice trip. You stayed fairly far north, it sounds like. One of these days I am going to make it to Monument Valley myself, and maybe go camping in the Canyonlands area. Yes, the view from Dead Horse Point State Park in Utah is amazing...
If I do move to Tucson (sometime after next summer) I have to figure out where to go on winter weekends, but I think there is a lot of stuff within a few hours' drive. For summer vacations and weekends, I figure I will go north and/or "up". :-)
If you went out through Lincoln NM, you must have also driven through Roswell -- any Subaru Flying Saucers? :-)
Good Morning! I have passed your comments on related to your opinions of our web site. If have been assured that it is in the process of being improved. I know that our E-Business group is working hard on it, so it should be soon. I'll share your most recent comments with them later today.
My '00 OB is at the dealers for getting the front rotors machined (they're warped already).
They lent me a '99 Forester for the day. What a different type of vehicle than the Outback. I guess you get used to something, but I have no hesitation to say I'm happy I bought an OB instead of a Forester. Don't want to start a war or anything, but its pretty clear that the base Outback is more upscale than the base Forester. Can't wait to get my own vehicle back...
I do think the Forester is a lot more fun to drive (especially comparing auto trans models), but I really appreciate the interior of the Outback. It feels a lot more open and airy, and you can tell the Forester's Impreza-based interior is a little dated.
Without question, the Outback has a more upscale feel and more room. It also costs a bit more and weighs an extra few hundred pounds. Some like this solidity, others believe weight is thy enemy.
Take it out to your favorite twisty road, and you'll appreciate the nimble handling and quicker acceleration (same engine, less weight).
Brad: my mention of the recall was referring to my Forester, just to say it wasn't perfect.
Kate: finally, an armrest. Don't you like how it's height matches the door rest's?
tex: nice story. I rented a Mercury Tracer in Taos once (that's all they had) and suffered AWFUL traction in the snow. That thing was all over the place!
Another thing I thought of, Ash, is that you really should compare the "S" model Forester to the base OB wagon -- it's a more even comparison in terms of upholstery and features. So equipped, the two models are within a few hundred bucks of each other.
My friend that I took shopping for a GT Ltd. is putting a deposit on one tonight. She's ordering it from a dealer in Brooklyn, NY since it's closer to her home in Queens. She was going to get the security upgrade but the dealer advised against it because it's an active alarm. They want to sell her a passive alarm for $495 and that will give her a better insurance discount. I'm guessing it's not an OEM alarm. They also advised her not to go an electronics store and get one because it could void the warranty in the event of a problem (I've heard of this). Is $495 worth it? I don't know any of the features (immobilizer, etc.) but I told her to ask more questions. Comments? TIA, Dennis
Nearly $500 for an alarm is only worth it to the shop installing it. Subaru's OE alarm costs around $100 at invoice, and OE alarms are proven to prevent theft better than aftermarket ones (market data, not mine).
Call your insurance company and ask, I doubt there is a difference in the discount, and even if there was you would take years to recover the extra $400 invested.
Apologies to those who are not Speedvision enabled ;-)
The WRC in San Remo will be broadcasting at 5:30 pm Pacific today on Speedvision, after Motor Trend TV. I'll be watching both since I think MT TV will be covering their SUV of the year award (I know, haha) testing of the Sequoia/X5/MDX, etc. Both will rerun again at 9pm Pacific.
As an aside on the MT SUV of the year award, someone commented that BMW rightfully couldn't have won anyway since they went out of their way to emphasise the point that the X5 was an SAV not an SUV :-p
Enjoy! Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Well, we just cruised through Roswell without stopping this time, but have visited the "International UFO Museum & Research Center" on previous trips through Roswell. I'm not overly impressed by the museum's theories, but it sure has a nifty gift shop! The previous time that my girlfriend and I passed through Roswell, we also made it a point to stop at a theater there to see the then-just-recently-released "X-Files" movie, just for the heck of it. Alas, the film's opening scenes were set in Dallas -- though clearly not shot anywhere near Dallas (there were mountains in the background!) -- rather than Roswell.
"Take it out to your favorite twisty road, and you'll appreciate the nimble handling and quicker acceleration (same engine, less weight)."
And you forgot to mention higher body roll. Really, I would rather the Outback with its solid feel and lower center of gravity on a twisty road, even with the *slightly* higher body weight. I had the Forester out on my usual routes today, and I was surprised at the amount of body roll.
Unlike in my Outback, where I scrub the tires regularly doing hard turns -- I couldn't attempt the same turns in the Forester because it felt like I was going to rollover! That's how much body roll there was.
(Maybe it was the 15" tires vs. the 16" on my OB. Probably be a fairer challenge with both with the same types and size of tires.)
The Forester is *slightly* faster than the OB. The Forester S is 3140 pounds. The Outback is 3425 pounds. The OB works out to be 9% heavier. I hesitate to call this advantage unless in the hands of someone really experienced. [In rally racing, cars in the same cc class ca differ in weight by upto 30% easily, yet a good driver can make all the difference].
The Forester does have a shorter wheelbase (99.4" vs 104.3") allowing for sharper turns, however a longer wheelbase, wider body, and overall lower car height (OB is almost 2" lower) *improves* handling in other ways, as well as the ride.
I do question if a 5sp Forestor could out nimble a 5sp OB on the twisties given that knowledge, especially at higher speeds where center of gravity does matter. (It would be a fair challenge, unless Colin or Ramon are driving
Ground clearance? it's a wash. OB is 0.2" lower.
As for appearance and emotive feeling, that's a matter of taste, but the Forester felt small-carish to me. The size of the vehicle, the layout of the cockpit, the smaller cargo area, the leg room for the back seats, even the horizontal HVAC gauges are not on par with that in the OB. (One thing I was jealous over was the clock on the roof of the car. Though I find the clock under the OB's speedometer to be easier placed for reading by the driver without getting distracted).
The Forester is due soon for a redesign (it's not that far off), so then I might get a bit worried
All this is my opinion of course. You are all entitled to your own [Except if you're Al Gore: please keep your cheesy "take your souls to the polls" remarks to yourself!#@!]
It's not a station just a 1/2 hour programme that airs on Speedvision the first week of each month and repeats again the last week of the month.
They did cover the SUV of the year award for this evening's episode. The footage as entertaining, but nothing really more than that. They showed the Mazda Tribute trying to get traction while teethering on the frame twister portion of the Hungry Valley off-road trail. As you already know, the Acura MDX won. Personally, I would've picked the Mitsubishi Montero or the Toyota Sequoia, but it seems like those companies didn't want to foot the millions to "win" the award ;-) ;-)
Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Hi everybody! I've been a devoted lurker to these boards here ever since the days of the CR-V vs. Forester days. I figured that since I just bought a subie i should break my silence and join in on the discussion. I bought a '92 legacy l sedan with all the options and 80,000 miles for $1800. It was an unbelievable deal. The car's in great shape, just has a dent about the size of my fist on the hood and that's it. The SVX was the car that first lured me to subarus, and as much as i wanted a used SVX, i just couldn't justify spending $7,000 on a car right now (I'm a starving student at K-State). Anyway, just thought i'd introduce myself to the crew and i look forward to participating in all the future discussions!
Bob: Consumer's Digest is a pretty good reference book. Get their buyer's guide, and they have all the specs and prices for every model out there. It's good to keep by the keyboard when you need to look something up.
For example, the Forester has more front leg room than a Suburban!
ash: too much body roll? Nothing an 18mm rear sway bar and 16" rims can't fix.
Actually, it's nice to see the old ash back, defending his new ride. Thumbs up.
I'm sure the new Forester will go upscale like the Outback did. Whether that's good or not depends on if you prefer luxury or lightness.
Mike: welcome. Have you considered a name change to Dave II? That would work... )
Just mounted my Blizzak MZ-01s with Team Loco 142 wheels from Tirerack on the 2000 GT Ltd. The deep lug tread and Loco wheels give the Legacy a more heavy duty look (w/out looking "Outbacky") but remains sporty. I don't trust the RE92s in the snow based upon my experience last winter. I found the MZ-01s to be pretty decent dry tires in the 50 degree weather in North Jersey during the break-in period. They aren't as mushy as the original Blizzak WS-15s I had on my 91 Accord. I threw one of the original stock tires in the trunk replacing the donut as the spare. Plan to do the same when winter is over with the Blizzak as the spare. Does anyone know of any ill effects of mounting a directional tire in the wrong direction. I plan to put a right Blizzak as the post-winter spare with the assumption that I'm more likely to get a right flat than a left flat assuming I get a puncture from debris in the gutter.
Thanks juice. My friend actually just cancelled her order on the GT Ltd. She was getting a major run-around from the dealer. He found the car she wanted but it needed some dealer installed options at a higher price than he originally quoted. He told her if she orders the car from the factory it might not be in until after the current financing special, and she'll have to pay higher financing. Also told her on the phone she would have to put a higher deposit than she did, even though he didn't tell her that in the showroom. She was a little surprised about the additional costs and one of his lines was "why don't we act like adults?" I told her to call SOA. She'll use my dealer in NJ. Dennis
paisan - I don't think she tried SI. She got a really good price at my dealer since I'm pretty chatty with the sales manager (and he wanted me to work there). Thanks though, I'll tell her to keep that in mind.
I won't post two versions like tex did (great story by the way), but I'll put the synopsis in at the beginning nevertheless.
Car: 2000 Subaru Legacy GT Sedan Trip: Silicon Valley CA to eastern PA Distance: 2906 miles Total Time (including ALL stops): 55 hours Overall average speed: 53mph (!) Total fuel used: 101 gallons Overall average MPG: 28.8 Best MPG (tankful): 30.7 Worst MPG (tankful): 26.5 Other Subaru GT sedans seen: 1
The worst MPG came on the first tankful, which was mostly over secondary roads on my way to and through CA Route 88 over the Sierra Nevada. I had wanted to go through Yosemite but everything down that way was closed due to snow :-( CA 88 is a beautiful drive, and when I went through (on a Wednesday morning) I pretty much had the road to myself, so it was a lovely drive; my farewell to California. From there I drove straight up to I-80 and stayed with it until I was within a few miles of home. My goal was just to get there, as soon as possible.
Salt Lake City was a mess! The roads are all torn up, I suppose in preparation for the Olympics; I wound up picking my way through the city following little detour signs Ugh. Other than that I did not hit any major construction or detours.
Two interesting tales from the road. The first was on the highlands between Laramie and Cheyenne Wyoming. They'd had a pretty good snowstorm the night before and had actually closed I-80 for a while. When I got to the western slopes the road was still snow covered. Traffic consisted primarily of my Subie and a whole lot of trucks; the trucks were crawling up the slope in the far right lane, so I drove in the far left - at 50mph, which felt completely safe and sane. The car never put a wheel wrong - amazing. There were cars and trucks off the road everywhere I looked, probably from the night before. There was also a 10 to 15 mile long backup going the other direction, created as all those big rigs crept down the western slope I had driven up. The Subie exited that area with a thick coating of whatever they spread on the roads there, something with the color and consistency of muddy clay. I took pictures of the poor beast in that condition, if they turn out alright I'll scan them and post them.
The second funny thing happened not long after that, as I crossed Nebraska. The speed limit was 75, and I was doing a few MPH above that, say about 80 or so. I saw something silver coming up behind me, fast. I eased the speed control down to 75, assuming it was a patrol car. Instead it was a Forrester! After he passed I tailed him from a discreet distance. He was doing something pretty fun, which was to ease through traffic just a bit faster than they were going and then blasting the open stretches. I cruised at 100+ for several minutes at a time doing the same thing. Again the car felt completely stable and solid and controllable. The engine is winding pretty hard at those numbers but otherwise it was a cakewalk. Let me tell you, 75 felt pretty mundane after that. I didn't see any difference in mileage between the tanks of gas I burned doing 80+ and the tanks I burned doing 65+.
The 53mph average speed includes all stops. Yes, even overnight! I only slept one night, pulling an all-nighter the second night so as to avoid going through Chicagoland during rush hour. I'm definitely getting too old for that nonsense!
Anyway, I'm back east now and ready to participate in the Subie stuff here. Can't wait to see everyone again!
Nice to be able to use the AWD as intended. All nighter driving? hehe Dave you're nuts Apologies in advance for doing this in public (and especially if you had a stuck keyboard), but Forester has two Rs We don't want to upset those Forester owners, ya know. At your expense others will learn the spelling.
..Mike
PS - Revenge is a dish best served cold so I'll be waiting for my comeuppance.
BG brought up a good idea: wax those wheels! At every rotation.
It keeps them clean, plus snow/ice are less likely to stick inside and throw your wheels off balance. If that's ever happened to you, you know exactly what I mean!
WDB: welcome back! Just in time for...the winter break! There's nothing going on that I know of. Any i Club events?
Broke 30mpg again, not to mention 100mph? Sweet!
Ah, Mike, you mean 1 R. Garry misspelled Forester in his home page, and he's SCOA founder and president!
Just getting started in Subaru-land. Purchased a 1997 Legacy GT a few months back with around 50,000 miles on it. Alternator failed a month after purchase. Dealer fixed it and paid my towing. I'll try to post a picture of my car here:
So far, I love the car. Gas mileage has been around 21 mpg so far, kind of disappointing. Oh, it has the automatic and I have a lead foot.
Comments
Bob
a) the name of the poster was not hyperlinked to the profile. In fact, it was hard to see the poster's name at all, as it was squeezed between bold-faced prepositions By and On (why to boldface the least informative pieces of information?)
b) search engine apparently runs on ASP, meaning on NT machine meaning it will be slow and unreliable (sorry to all you Microsoft lovers out there ;-).
c) the board was still not thread-based, that means that essentially there were no major functionality improvement.
WellEngaged feels ancient but it's at least reliable (from the end-user standpoint), and I'll take reliability over flashiness any time (this why I buy Subarus)
--Kate (who already insulted Paul Hogan and now is ready to take on Bill Gates)
-mike
So, what's the big deal? What have we gained?
Bob
-mike
I do agree with your underwhelmed response to the new software. Did you look at the profiles? They sucked! Not customized for our application at all, just a generic -- who, phone number, and plaintext comment box. Not even an HTML comment box!
-Colin
I agree with misksmi that well-managed NT server can beat a poorly managed UNIX, but from my experience I found that it's much easier to bring down NT than UNIX. Also, I found a lot more jerks working with NT than with UNIX (easy to get MS certification?)
BTW, I finally got my armrest installed in my Forester! What a joy! am I back on topic? :-)
Anyway, I get completely ignored there, so I do't try too hard to keep up with it.
Willickers, mikesmith, back to the html freestyle with a vengeance, aren't we? And in some sort of strange foreign language, no less?
LOL! Good one!
..Mike
They mostly (and I'm generalizing here) feel the impreza is/was/always will be the Be all and end all of cars.
-mike
..Mike
..Mike
What certification do you have?
Glad you got your armrest. A really useful feature.
Things move fast there, and I like the (usually) slower pace here. When things move fast here, or I can't check it for a few days, it is a real pain to catch up though. On the iclub the threaded discussions make following a single topic easy.
I agree with paisan, there are a lot of narrowminded people on the iclub. There are a few sane ones though.
Anyway... I missed all of you too. I saw juice on the miataforum asking a few questions. Didn't post in any of the threads he did tho, I mainly just lurk on the miataforum.
-Colin
25 btw.
I've met many MCSEs that were utterly clueless. (I work with some!) I've also sat in seminars and even training classes where the instructor is clueless.
The Vehicle: 1998 Forester L with auto.
The Trip: My girlfriend and I made a two-week trip from Austin, TX, to visit friends in Moab, UT, with extensive sidetrips in New Mexico, Colorado and Arizona.
The Distance: 3,230 miles roundtrip.
The MPG: Averaged around a somewhat disappointing 23 mpg.
The State That Seemed To Have The Most Subarus: Colorado.
We left Austin just before 4 p.m on Oct. 8, headed northwest.
*Once we were out of the Austin area, Subarus became rare enough that we started a little road game, "Spot the Subie," in which the first one of us to see a fellow Subaru would yell, "Subaru!" ("Forester!" or "Outback!" were also good responses). From Central Texas, across the South Plains and on into southeastern New Mexico, we scored very few Subaru sightings.
We stopped for the first night at the small town of Post (about 40 miles south of Lubbock) where we stayed at the Hotel Garza, a 1915 railroad hotel that's now a B&B. The little hotel is a bit rustic, but in a nicely Old West sort of way. It's an excellent bargain, with the only downside being that it is right next to the railroad tracks, so you could hear late-night freight trains rumble by.
The next day we cruised across the Texas Panhandle and eastern New Mexico, driving to Taos via Las Vegas, N.M. (we made it a point to bypass Albuquerque because friends told us the Big I -- construction work on the intersection of I-40 and I-25 -- has been a terrible mess). We spent the night at the Taos Inn, in a room that was part of a small turn-of-the-century adobe home. The room was exceedingly nifty, but I'd still have to say that this hotel was rather seriously overpriced.
*Subaru sightings began picking up considerably as we had approached Taos and remained fairly common as we made our way through northern New Mexico.
We spent most of the next morning at the Taos Pueblo (I've been there before, but Christine hadn't). After leaving the pueblo, we made a short, obligatory stop on the Rio Grande Gorge Bridge just west of Taos, then took a strikingly beautiful drive on US 64 through the western half of Carson Nat'l Forest to Tierra Amarilla, where we stopped briefly so Christine could shop for weavings (found absolutely nothing that we could afford).
I'd been looking forward to the next stage of the trip, the drive from Chama on across southwest Colorado, but it started raining fairly heavily on us even before we reached Pagosa Springs, Colo. Though I felt relatively safe in our Forester, it was still miserable enough driving on the winding, hilly and unfamilar roads that I couldn't enjoy whatever scenery was visible through the downpour. The rain began easing up around Cortez, but by then it was getting dark anyway, so we continued on through intermittent showers to Moab.
*One thing that was reasonably easy to see in southwestern Colorado were Subarus. They were so ubiquitous on the Colorado roads that we finally gave up on our "Spot the Subie" game.
*Our first full day in Moab was the only time we gave the Forester a slow-speed workout. Wendy, our hostess, led us out on a scenic drive a little ways along what she called the River Road beside the Colorado River, and then on a rougher stretch of dirt road along Kane Creek to a high overlook called Hurrah Pass. Not actual off-roading, but certainly a bit of fairly rough-roading. The Subaru handled it all with great aplomb, never even vaguely threatening to bottom out. Most of the rest of our rough-road outings, we took our friends' new-ish Toyota RAV4 -- partly because of the RAV4's slightly higher ground clearance, but mostly because our host, Eric, was driving since he was the only one who knew exactly where we were going.
*We spent some time comparing their RAV4 with our Forester: The RAV4 won on most off-roading points, but Eric admitted to preferring the Subaru's engine power, handling and highway ride. The Forester's back seat also was a tad roomier (but neither was enormously comfy packed with two adults and a child seat on a 120-mile daytrip).
Our friends showed us around Arches Nat'l Park (I was most impressed by Double Arch), and a few of the highlights of Canyonlands Nat'l Park -- Canyonlands seems much too vast to cover thoroughly unless you devote the bulk of your vacation to it. We also made a quick stop at the adjacent Dead Horse Point State Park, which is terrifically scenic.
Our friends (one of whom is an archaeologist with the National Park Service) also took us on a day hike down into a canyon on BLM land west of Blandings, which was just filled with 13th-century cliff dwellings and had a few Anasazi stone towers along the rim. There are few things more humbling than worrying intensely about scrambling up a large, very steep boulder along a high canyon wall, then watching your best friend not only nonchalantly climb over it, but do so with his 2-year-old daughter dozing peacefully in the L.L. Bean baby pack on his back.
*Moab had a lot of Subarus per capita -- although a lot of them had out-of-state plates, rather than belonging to locals. Moab is a major mecca for mountain bikers, and I noted that the Impreza Sport Wagon seemed to be the preferred vehicle of the mountain biking set. I didn't get to find out if that's because it's viewed as notably cooler than the Outback or Forester, or just because it's the most affordable of the Subaru wagons for a young person on a budget.
We left Moab on Oct. 16 and drove back into Colorado to Mesa Verde Nat'l Park, where we spent the night in the Farview Lodge. Christine and I both really liked the lodge; the rooms aren't special -- just motel units without TVs or phones -- but we had a wonderful view (in the morning, a small herd of wild horses came grazing right by our window). Also, the lodge's restaurant was quite good, though a tad pricey.
We had wondered about how bad this summer's fire damage would be. Much of the northern part of the park was thoroughly blackened, but the parts of the park where we visited archaeological sites were all unscathed. We spent a very busy day at Mesa Verde. The ruins at Mesa Verde might not be quite as impressive in scale as, say, New Mexico's Chaco Canyon, but the sheer variety was stunning.
We rolled west into Arizona the following day, with a brief jog up to the Four Corners Monument. It's only worth a short stop for a goofy photo op, but it WAS a hoot to drive slowly around the marker as Christine yelled, "OK, we're still in New Mexico, oh, now we're in Colorado, and now we're in Utah annndddd now back in Arizona."
We looped back up into southern Utah, via the town of Bluff, and then down into Monument Valley. I'm glad to have finally seen Monument Valley in person, after decades of seeing it in movies, but the scenery didn't beat Arches or Canyonlands. In fact, we found the badlands before we got to Monument Valley (just north of Mexican Hat) more exotic -- it looked all for the world like the backdrops in the old "Roadrunner"/"Wile E. Coyote" cartoons. We visited to the old Gouldings Lodge and Trading Post, where we enjoyed seeing a lot of old movie paraphernalia, before continuing south into Arizona.
We drove on to Chinle and the entrance to Canyon de Chelly Nat'l Monument right after dark. At Canyon de Chelly, we stayed at the Navajo-operated Thunderbird Lodge, which was extremely nice, except for a bit of trouble with hot water in our room (the lodge blamed it on their "historic plumbing"). Of all the places we visited on the Navajo reservation, the Thunderbird Lodge's gallery offered the best-quality Navajo arts and crafts we saw on this trip, with especially fine rugs. Of course, this quality meant we couldn't afford any of it, but I did buy a very nice silver-and-turquoise necklace for Christine from a Navajo silversmith we met while in Chinle.
We did the hike to the White House cliff dwelling down in the canyon the next morning, hit a few scenic overlooks and then headed west into Hopiland in the afternoon. I've been to Canyon de Chelly before, and I think Christine wasn't that impressed having just been to Mesa Verde two days before, but she did think the canyon scenery was pretty.
Our next stop was the Hopi pueblo of Walpi, high atop First Mesa. I'd been there once before, but really wanted to visit another still-occupied, living Indian pueblo after having spent so much time at ancient Indian ruins. And Christine had never even met any Hopis before, so she found it pretty interesting. There were also some good pottery bargains, and we bought a quite nice shallow bowl from an extremely old Hopi lady at Walpi (also got to glimpse her pueblo home's kitchen -- no running water or electricity, but she did have sheet linoleum on the floor). We also made a quick stop at the Hopi Indian Cultural Center's small museum at Second Mesa, before turning around. We were trying to make it to Ganado, Ariz., to visit the old Hubbel Trading Post, but it was closed by the time we got there.
We spent the night in Gallup, N.M., staying at what's become our favorite classic Route 66 accommodation, the 1930s-era El Rancho Hotel, which was a hangout for visiting movie crews for decades. An exceedingly offbeat place, probably not to everyone's taste since it has certainly seen better days, but we love it.
We got a late start the next morning, and lit out across New Mexico, going from Gallup to the historic town (I think the entire town is an officially designated national historic site) of Lincoln. We stayed the night at the Casa de Patron, a B&B in an 1850s adobe building where Billy the Kid was reputedly held for a few nights under house arrest while negotiating with the governor for a pardon. It was a nifty house, though one of those B&Bs where you feel a bit like you're staying in someone's guest bedroom. (My experience has been that tends to bother your average guy -- myself certainly included -- while most women, like Christine, feel totally comfortable with it).
That evening, we drove over into the nearby tiny town of Tinnie for supper, where we dined at a general store that has been enlarged into a large rambling Victorian eatery, which apparently attracts a fair bit of well-heeled travelers from Ruidoso. The food was pretty good.
The next morning we toured Lincoln, where I tried to indoctrinate Christine into Billy the Kid lore and the history of the 1870's Lincoln County War. Around noon, we reluctantly climbed back into Forester and launched into the long drive home, making it through West Texas, via Big Spring and San Angelo, to Austin in a little over 10 hours.
Whew! Congrats if you really read all this -- though I have to wonder if ya didn't have anything better to do with your time ... ;-)
All -- for threaded discussions, why not just create a moderated newsgroup? See news:alt.autos.subaru for an example of an unmoderated newsgroup -- high volume, lots of noise, not quite so much information. Note that using a web browser to read newsgroups is not at all optimal; I like to compare it to reading a book by projecting it onto the big displays at a stadium, rather than curling up in a comfy chair by the fireplace (using trn, slrn, etc.).
Texsubaru -- sounds like a nice trip. You stayed fairly far north, it sounds like. One of these days I am going to make it to Monument Valley myself, and maybe go camping in the Canyonlands area. Yes, the view from Dead Horse Point State Park in Utah is amazing...
Chris
If I do move to Tucson (sometime after next summer) I have to figure out where to go on winter weekends, but I think there is a lot of stuff within a few hours' drive. For summer vacations and weekends, I figure I will go north and/or "up". :-)
If you went out through Lincoln NM, you must have also driven through Roswell -- any Subaru Flying Saucers? :-)
Chris
..Mike
..Mike
As always, keep those comments coming!
They lent me a '99 Forester for the day. What a different type of vehicle than the Outback. I guess you get used to something, but I have no hesitation to say I'm happy I bought an OB instead of a Forester. Don't want to start a war or anything, but its pretty clear that the base Outback is more upscale than the base Forester. Can't wait to get my own vehicle back...
Ash
Craig
Take it out to your favorite twisty road, and you'll appreciate the nimble handling and quicker acceleration (same engine, less weight).
Brad: my mention of the recall was referring to my Forester, just to say it wasn't perfect.
Kate: finally, an armrest. Don't you like how it's height matches the door rest's?
tex: nice story. I rented a Mercury Tracer in Taos once (that's all they had) and suffered AWFUL traction in the snow. That thing was all over the place!
-juice
Craig
Comments?
TIA,
Dennis
Call your insurance company and ask, I doubt there is a difference in the discount, and even if there was you would take years to recover the extra $400 invested.
-juice
The WRC in San Remo will be broadcasting at 5:30 pm Pacific today on Speedvision, after Motor Trend TV. I'll be watching both since I think MT TV will be covering their SUV of the year award (I know, haha) testing of the Sequoia/X5/MDX, etc. Both will rerun again at 9pm Pacific.
As an aside on the MT SUV of the year award, someone commented that BMW rightfully couldn't have won anyway since they went out of their way to emphasise the point that the X5 was an SAV not an SUV :-p
Enjoy!
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Bob
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/001106/nj_subaru_.html
-mike
The previous time that my girlfriend and I passed through Roswell, we also made it a point to stop at a theater there to see the then-just-recently-released "X-Files" movie, just for the heck of it. Alas, the film's opening scenes were set in Dallas -- though clearly not shot anywhere near Dallas (there were mountains in the background!) -- rather than Roswell.
"Take it out to your favorite twisty road, and you'll appreciate the nimble handling and quicker
acceleration (same engine, less weight)."
And you forgot to mention higher body roll.
Really, I would rather the Outback with its solid feel and lower center of gravity on a twisty road, even with the *slightly* higher body weight. I had the Forester out on my usual routes today, and I was surprised at the amount of body roll.
Unlike in my Outback, where I scrub the tires regularly doing hard turns -- I couldn't attempt the same turns in the Forester because it felt like I was going to rollover! That's how much body roll there was.
(Maybe it was the 15" tires vs. the 16" on my OB. Probably be a fairer challenge with both with the same types and size of tires.)
The Forester is *slightly* faster than the OB. The Forester S is 3140 pounds. The Outback is 3425 pounds. The OB works out to be 9% heavier. I hesitate to call this advantage unless in the hands of someone really experienced. [In rally racing, cars in the same cc class ca differ in weight by upto 30% easily, yet a good driver can make all the difference].
The Forester does have a shorter wheelbase (99.4" vs 104.3") allowing for sharper turns, however a longer wheelbase, wider body, and overall lower car height (OB is almost 2" lower) *improves* handling in other ways, as well as the ride.
I do question if a 5sp Forestor could out nimble a 5sp OB on the twisties given that knowledge, especially at higher speeds where center of gravity does matter. (It would be a fair challenge, unless Colin or Ramon are driving
Ground clearance? it's a wash. OB is 0.2" lower.
As for appearance and emotive feeling, that's a matter of taste, but the Forester felt small-carish to me. The size of the vehicle, the layout of the cockpit, the smaller cargo area, the leg room for the back seats, even the horizontal HVAC gauges are not on par with that in the OB. (One thing I was jealous over was the clock on the roof of the car. Though I find the clock under the OB's speedometer to be easier placed for reading by the driver without getting distracted).
The Forester is due soon for a redesign (it's not that far off), so then I might get a bit worried
All this is my opinion of course. You are all entitled to your own
Different folks, different strokes...
ash
They did cover the SUV of the year award for this evening's episode. The footage as entertaining, but nothing really more than that. They showed the Mazda Tribute trying to get traction while teethering on the frame twister portion of the Hungry Valley off-road trail. As you already know, the Acura MDX won. Personally, I would've picked the Mitsubishi Montero or the Toyota Sequoia, but it seems like those companies didn't want to foot the millions to "win" the award ;-) ;-)
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Mike
P.S. My dad's name is dave
Cheers
Graham
For example, the Forester has more front leg room than a Suburban!
ash: too much body roll? Nothing an 18mm rear sway bar and 16" rims can't fix.
Actually, it's nice to see the old ash back, defending his new ride. Thumbs up.
I'm sure the new Forester will go upscale like the Outback did. Whether that's good or not depends on if you prefer luxury or lightness.
Mike: welcome. Have you considered a name change to Dave II? That would work...
-juice
Hmmph! you got me there...
I'm not sure about the wrong-way unidirectional tires, though. It may be OK for very short-term use, but I doubt they'll perform as intended.
What size are the snows?
-juice
Can you call the elections, Juice? I mean, NOW (not tomorrow :-)
My friend actually just cancelled her order on the GT Ltd. She was getting a major run-around from the dealer. He found the car she wanted but it needed some dealer installed options at a higher price than he originally quoted. He told her if she orders the car from the factory it might not be in until after the current financing special, and she'll have to pay higher financing. Also told her on the phone she would have to put a higher deposit than she did, even though he didn't tell her that in the showroom. She was a little surprised about the additional costs and one of his lines was "why don't we act like adults?" I told her to call SOA. She'll use my dealer in NJ.
Dennis
-paisan
Dennis: I'd have walked, too.
paisan: I've already been calling you paisan. Too many names to keep straight!
-juice
Car: 2000 Subaru Legacy GT Sedan
Trip: Silicon Valley CA to eastern PA
Distance: 2906 miles
Total Time (including ALL stops): 55 hours
Overall average speed: 53mph (!)
Total fuel used: 101 gallons
Overall average MPG: 28.8
Best MPG (tankful): 30.7
Worst MPG (tankful): 26.5
Other Subaru GT sedans seen: 1
The worst MPG came on the first tankful, which was mostly over secondary roads on my way to and through CA Route 88 over the Sierra Nevada. I had wanted to go through Yosemite but everything down that way was closed due to snow :-( CA 88 is a beautiful drive, and when I went through (on a Wednesday morning) I pretty much had the road to myself, so it was a lovely drive; my farewell to California. From there I drove straight up to I-80 and stayed with it until I was within a few miles of home. My goal was just to get there, as soon as possible.
Salt Lake City was a mess! The roads are all torn up, I suppose in preparation for the Olympics; I wound up picking my way through the city following little detour signs Ugh. Other than that I did not hit any major construction or detours.
Two interesting tales from the road. The first was on the highlands between Laramie and Cheyenne Wyoming. They'd had a pretty good snowstorm the night before and had actually closed I-80 for a while. When I got to the western slopes the road was still snow covered. Traffic consisted primarily of my Subie and a whole lot of trucks; the trucks were crawling up the slope in the far right lane, so I drove in the far left - at 50mph, which felt completely safe and sane. The car never put a wheel wrong - amazing. There were cars and trucks off the road everywhere I looked, probably from the night before. There was also a 10 to 15 mile long backup going the other direction, created as all those big rigs crept down the western slope I had driven up. The Subie exited that area with a thick coating of whatever they spread on the roads there, something with the color and consistency of muddy clay. I took pictures of the poor beast in that condition, if they turn out alright I'll scan them and post them.
The second funny thing happened not long after that, as I crossed Nebraska. The speed limit was 75, and I was doing a few MPH above that, say about 80 or so. I saw something silver coming up behind me, fast. I eased the speed control down to 75, assuming it was a patrol car. Instead it was a Forrester! After he passed I tailed him from a discreet distance. He was doing something pretty fun, which was to ease through traffic just a bit faster than they were going and then blasting the open stretches. I cruised at 100+ for several minutes at a time doing the same thing. Again the car felt completely stable and solid and controllable. The engine is winding pretty hard at those numbers but otherwise it was a cakewalk. Let me tell you, 75 felt pretty mundane after that. I didn't see any difference in mileage between the tanks of gas I burned doing 80+ and the tanks I burned doing 65+.
The 53mph average speed includes all stops. Yes, even overnight! I only slept one night, pulling an all-nighter the second night so as to avoid going through Chicagoland during rush hour. I'm definitely getting too old for that nonsense!
Anyway, I'm back east now and ready to participate in the Subie stuff here. Can't wait to see everyone again!
Cheers,
-wdb
..Mike
PS - Revenge is a dish best served cold so I'll be waiting for my comeuppance.
..Mike
It keeps them clean, plus snow/ice are less likely to stick inside and throw your wheels off balance. If that's ever happened to you, you know exactly what I mean!
WDB: welcome back! Just in time for...the winter break! There's nothing going on that I know of. Any i Club events?
Broke 30mpg again, not to mention 100mph? Sweet!
Ah, Mike, you mean 1 R. Garry misspelled Forester in his home page, and he's SCOA founder and president!
-juice
So far, I love the car. Gas mileage has been around 21 mpg so far, kind of disappointing. Oh, it has the automatic and I have a lead foot.
Looking forward to browsing the posts...
rallynut
juice, you're busted
..Mike
..Mike