I have a 2" receiver under the bumper on my 97 OB, and slide a Thule 4-bike rack into it & haul bikes around like crazy - I also have a 2-bike roof rack from Darlene (she rocks!), and I need both for camping (family of 5). My wife likes the hitch rack because she's short . Either one works great.
Yep they all suck. My dealer has a great sales dept, but their service dept sux. They lied about a ton of things to me on my truck in the service dept. The best thing is to slam em in the cust satisfaction rating and use a different dealer for repairs and don't recommend them to anyone.
I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, but maybe you should just forget about it and enjoy your new car!!
The dealer was wrong to let someone else drive the car, but if there was no real harm done (other than to your feelings), it might be easier to just let it go. Definitely follow up with Subaru of America and ding the dealer on the survey, though.
When I bought my OB, I test drove a Winestone model, and then decided I liked Timberline Green better. So, I just picked another OB with the right color and options, and gave it a quick lookover. Hours later, after I finally owned the green car, I found out that there were 80 miles on the ODO. Doh!! I felt a little stupid, and was a little miffed that the car had obviously been test-driven quite a bit. But, 4500 miles later, that initial 80 miles is no big deal.
If you looked over your car thoroughly and there are no problems, my advice to you would be to just forget about it and go out for a fun drive!
Search on Google with the same exact text as the title, and it will tell you. I stand corrected by tincup47. I thought it involved impact to the sensor circuit but it does not. There are mechanical and electrical sensors that are triggered by a sudden change in speed. The electronic sensors use accelerometers. The mechanical switch closes when a shift in mass occurs. Both activate when the change in speed is greater than 10 to 15mph in virtually 0 seconds.
Ray, relax a little and enjoy the car. You are worked up over nothing. If there were 800 miles on the car since you last saw it, then worry. 8 miles is nothing and this type of car generally does not attract test drivers (or salesmen) who pretend think they are Mario Andretti.
Ask the dealer for something small as a show of good faith and acknowledgment of the "oops". Maybe a couple of free oil changes or car washes. Do not ask for ridiculous things because the mistake was small.
Congratulations on your OB purchase. I agree with your asessment of Forester vs. OB (I bought a 2000 limited wagon).
The flip out thingy in the wall of teh cup holder is to provide stability for a can or bottle which doesn't fit snugly in the holder. -------------------------------------------- To anyone else: I used this site before I bought my subaru last July, and have been away for months. Now I'm contemplating some accessories. Where is the best place to purchase Subaru accessories? I'm having trouble finding the site. Any comments on the automatic mirror w/compass and adding it to an 2000 OB Limited wagon? Perhaps the infamous Suabru Queen - Darlene (I seem to recall when reading posts months ago) can help or respond??
Thanks again to all of you kind and helpful people out there.
You both gave RayC the responses I wanted to give.
RayC: I'll reiterate just so my post can be a little longer :-), relax and enjoy your car...end of story! I would add that you can better vent your frustrations w/the customer satisfaction survey that you will receive from Subaru. Believe me when I say that the dealer would not want to have a bad survey. Subaru of America places a lot of weight on these surveys (I think that Patti and Darlene could back me up on this point). Anyhow, we would like to see you post in the future as a happy new Subaru owner not a disgruntled, potential non-customer.
I just ordered a set of Blizzaks with new wheels from the tirerack and they were very good about not charging me extra for additional shipping because the entire set of 4 is being shipped from different locations. I ordered 3 MZ-01s with the Team Loco 142 Silver wheels from Delaware and the 4th tire/wheel from Indiana. When I went to their website, it said that they did not have a set of 4. So, I called on the phone and they were very nice about the stock problem. Apparently, Indiana did not have a complete set either. Since the tires are directional, they will coordinate the mounting so that I get 2L/2R. This is for the 2000 GT Ltd which has those RE92s that don't grip very well. As I posted previously, my friend's Odyssey with Symmetry All-Seasons did better in 5" of crusty snow than the Subie with RE92s.
Agree Tirerack is a great place to shop. As for the RE92s being junk, they are ok when they are brand new but once you have lost some tread they stink. I had to drive Des Moines to Chicago in a snowstorm where they had to pull all the plows off the road back two years ago in an almost brand new GT with RE92s (hadn't even got time to order my snowtires from Tirerack before uncle died a week after I took delivery of the car and I had to get to the funeral!) Had to do the same this year (for aunt!) , had Artic Alpins this time, to be honest there wasn't much between the two, though I was probably going faster this time - either confidence as I did it once before or stupidity). In my 92 Legacy with RE92s with half tread it was like wearing banana skins on any snow or wet road. BTW Blizzaks (which I had on the 92) are definitely better on ice - or at least they inspire more confidence - than the Arctic Alpins but the Michelins ride and handle better on anything else.
All, please try to ignore the highly inappropriate post above. I have informed the appropriate admin. staff and hopefully it (and the user) will get canned ASAP.
Mike, you really weren't kidding in your last post! I'm sorry that it has spread on to this excellent conference area as well. :-(
Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Mike, that allows him to win! Every topic / forum has this happen every now and then. I suppose it might chase a few people, which is really unfortunate, but the occassional mad troll doesn't bother me in the least.
Drew... why can't you scribble it? Are you like a probationary community leader?
I wish I could scribble it, but community leaders don't have that capability. Even if I did, this is not my assigned conference area and I have to go through the chain of command. Only hosts can scribble other users' posts. I've been try to see if any of them are online since I saw the post, but unfortunately none are (partly because of the 2 or 3 hour time difference). FWIW, we are already on alert for this particular user.
Mike, I agree with Colin. You shouldn't have to give up the priviledge of posting just because of someone else's inappropriate conduct.
Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
'kay I know there is another topic just for this, but I only value Subie forum people opinions
Colin, getting rear-ended is not supposed to trigger the airbags, so I don't see why that is an argument for how airbags didn't help you in 3 rear-end accidents. I agree, if you wrap your car around a concrete post at 60 mph, physics says you will probably die. But then neither airbags, nor seatbelts would help at all.
Statistics show that airbags have only saved a few thousand lives (out of hundreds of thousands of fatalities) in the last decade. However, this statistic is deceptive. Firstly, few cars on the road ten years ago had airbags. Secondly, they only count people who were in potentially fatal accidents (how would they know, really?) who were NOT wearing seatbelts but had airbags and survived. If they were wearing seatbelts, the study arbitrarily gave the lifesaving credit to the seatbelts alone.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in seatbelts, safety-oriented cars, and paying attention. But I also believe airbags can help quite a bit. Just look at video footage of crash tests in non-airbagged cars...even with a seatbelt on, the dummy's torso is held more or less in place but his head, legs, and arms get flung forward until they are all completely horizontal and the head (in some cases) smacks the steering wheel. Hmm, can't find anything on the internet. I think I saw this film in traffic school years back The airbag helps restrain something important that the seatbelt doesn't: your head!
oops, sorry for yakking away...
Dave C.
ps: Mike, don't let that sadly pathetic, bored, lonely, loser with nothing better to do with his (yah I don't think it was a her) lame life affect your day in any way =p
Please do not leave this board. We (I) really enjoy your commentary and we should not get disrupted by someone who is very bored. I agree with the others. The post are VERY easy to ignore. I hope someone scribbles these pronto. I'll try to get in touch with Bonnie today.
Kate - I couldn't agree with you more. Seat belts are the easiest thing to use to save lives.
BG - you are perfectly correct with the deployment criteria for Side Impact Air-bags. They are dependent on the breaking of the circuits.
Overall airbag comments - In my role, I get to see a lot of letters where airbags have saved lives. One of the more frequent concerns we hear from people is that the bags didn't deploy. When we ask if someone was hurt, more often than not, they were not. The seatbelt did it's job. G-Forces do indicate whether a front bag should go or not. If you hit a deer and it rolls up your hood, more than likely it won't go off. If you hit a wall going full speed, dead on center, it probably will.
If you are looking for a specific vehicle, you can always search for a dealer that you like and get a relationship going. The dealers have access to other inventories and they can try to do a dealer trade. Also, if you call us at 1-800-SUBARU3, the Rep. can try to help find the car you are looking for.
Hi Juice. I'm trying to pin someone down for something specific. I keep getting generalized answers (probably waiting for the EPA to finish emissions testing to see if they will have to make any changes). I'll keep nagging away!
Just curious...When we bought our 2001 Forester S, the salesman said that if we filled out the customer satisfaction survey with all excellents (in essence--not a direct quote), we would get a free oil change. My husband filled out the survey with some areas of not-so-good ratings (they were lucky I wasn't the one filling out the survey!) and we didn't get the oil change. No big deal in one sense--but it has bothered me to do business in this way.
I know when we have had service done that we get back a form saying that if we had any problems, we should notify the service department BEFORE we fill out the customer satisfaction survey from Subaru.
Has anyone else run into this kind of situation?
TonyL-I am still waiting for the hood deflector to arrive here. I won't be putting it on until 11/11 or 11/18 because of plans for the next 2-3 week-ends. You had said that you would watch for my posts so that you could help me if I had any problems with the install. I wanted to let you know why I hadn't said anything yet about it.
Interestingly, the enclosed brochure says 5% rebate, and only for lease/purchase of new Subaru, max $700/yr or $3500/5yrs. The web site says the current policy is 3% rebate in form of $100 coupons, max $500/yr or $2000/4yrs. I called 800 # on the card, and they quoted 5% rebate policy.
I'm still not sure which way I like more. 5% is a very good rebate but I can use it only for new car. 3% is not as good as 5% but I liked the flexibility of using coupons for accessories and service of my 2 current Soobs.
Pat, We weren't enticed with freebies but were given a "sample" form filled in with excellents; the salesman encouraged my wife and I to fill in a blank form as such. Judging by the number of posts in other Subaru forums (like alt.autos.subaru), rigged surveys are common practice. It's unfortunate for SoA and its customers, because it diminishes the value of the survey. When evaluating customer satisfaction with a given dealer, I hope SoA considers that some responses are dealer-rigged (due to free oil changes and other carrots) and, for the non-rigged responses, customers are more likely to report a poor rating. Why? People are more likely to complain than to compliment -- notice I said people and not enthusiasts BTW I'm sure Subaru is not the only manufacturer with this issue.
Kate - I don't have the card but from what I understand it's changing from 5% to 3% this month or next. Sounds like the brochure is not up to date, but the web site is. For every $3,333.00 you spend, you get a $100 coupon. Dennis
I've had my Forester S+ for about 2 weeks now and have not seen or heard anything from either Subaru or my dealer about a survey. Is this something I should expect to receive through the mail?
The survey took about 4-8 weeks to arrive if I remember right. After that, at about the 1 year mark I got another survey from SOA via email asking even more questions. In both instances I complained about cheap, thin paint. ;-)
When I bought my 2000 GT wagon we recived 2 verbal, statements along these lines, "You'll be getting a survey from Subaru in a few weeks, if you give us any thing less than "exceeded expectations", it is just like saying... thay did nothing for us." And then the dealership management sent us four letters about a week apart reminding us how important it was that they get high marks and if there was any reason at all we would put something else down to call them first and see what they could do for me. It almost bordered on harassment. The kicker to this story is 6000 miles later I have never gottten the survey. I hadn't thought about it until seeing these posts. SOA has my correct address because I just got the ECU recall notice. Patti, Is there any way I can get that survey?
Paisan: glad you're taking the high road, just don't be gone for long. The KYBs, springs, and new rims sound like a sweet suspension package for your XT!
For the record, Crew Chiefs cannot scribble posts, either.
Dennis: GTs seem to be a real find. I usually only see 1 or 2 at Fitzgerald, and considering there are different colors, options, trannies, and even body styles - good luck! Try Patti's suggestion.
Kate: glad to hear you insist on passengers wearing their belts. My wife sometimes sits in the back with the baby and I some times have to remind her.
For the someone that asked, Geolander tires are made by Yokohama.
Pat: see if you can take photos of the deflector installation.
you'll notice that posts YOU make are hyptext blue (the number, that is). That allows you, the poster to click on it and do one of two things: hide the post, or "scribble" it, essentially removing it from the thread. Edmunds admin folks can also do this. O rthey just delet it, I suppose..
most of the posts Mike referred to happened over on the Isuzu Trooper forum, so we here missed them. Probably for the best, from what I can infer. Seems someone is out to harass Mike, and is following him around from forum to forum.
I bought a 2000 Legacy L wgn at the end of July. I recently went to the dealer and had an oil change and asked them to check the front end for a thumping sound while turning slowly over rough pavement. They said they couldn't duplicate the sound. I figure this is because all the streets in Santa Monica CA around the dealership have been repaved. When I took a spin around the block I couldn't duplicate it either. Any suggestions? I have searched the posts here and can't seem to find any fixes for this.
Re: Need Help... I noticed that there were 20 miles on our 2001 Outback when we took delivery last week and thought the mileage was a bit high (big parking lot??). Car was in great shape, so didn't complain about it, though. (More detailed report when it gets some highway miles next weekend)
Re: Rigged surveys... I've had this issue with the local Toyota service department (our other car is a Camry) and in fact went so far as to call Toyota and complain, not that the service was other than satisfactory, but only that Toyota of America shouldn't be thinking that they're getting unbiased customer data. I think it's great that a service organization wants to be sure that its customers are satisfied, but I think asking "was everyhting OK?" ONCE is as far as it should go. Interestingly enough, the next time I was in the service department, the "prompted" responses taped to the service desk were not to be found.
WRT the scribbled post, you don't want to see it. Surfice to say that it was highly inappropriate, sexual in nature. I don't know this abuse is directed towards Mike (paisan).
In any case, I saw it shortly after it was posted and informed Bonnie right away. It, and the user have been taken care of for now, but I fear that this isn't the last that we've seen of him. I've asked if it is possible to invoke a more permanent solution.
Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
It depends on how the troll is accessing edmunds, his IP address tells all. If he is at work, someone at edmunds could surely shut him up by emailing the owner of the domain about his abuse, which would get important people involved quickly.
If it's from home IP addresses in his scope could be blocked, but that would keep others from his immediate locale / ISP from entering the forums as well.
Ray, the owner's manual covers it all pretty well. Also note the switch on top of the steering column, most owners ask about that or wonder why their parking lights won't turn off. ;-)
After the break-in period as described in the manual, begin driving the vehicle normally. There is no further need to baby it, or fear that you shouldn't tow, accelerate rapidly, etc. After the break-in it's ready to rock!
nu2soob: ask the dealer service rep to go with you, and drive until you can reproduce the noise.
Speaking of rigged surveys, the guy at the Mazda dealer where we bought our 626 actually told us "fill in these, here", pointing to the column with for the best scores.
Ray: drive smoothly for the first 1000 miles or so. Try to vary speeds, and avoid using cruise control. Be gentle with the brakes and tranny, too, if you can.
After that, you have a rev limiter to let 'er rip. They're designed to handle it.
Anyone have a Forester and have any comments on reliabilty, practicality? How do they really perform in winter? This is a vehicle for my wife. If the Forester doesn't perfom well enough, then we'll get a Trooper. I appreciate anyone's help.
There's loads of comments on these boards regarding the Forester - mostly all very positive. You just need to take the time to scroll through them.
I noticed by your profile that you have a Sidekick. You will find the Forester far more comfortable and powerful. It's an AWD car, not a truck like the Sidekick.
The only thing the Sidekick has over the Forester, is that it is more off-road capable, in that it has a low range, which the Forester does not have.
Subarus are very reliable. That's not an issue to worry about.
Comments
Cheers!
Paul
-mike
The dealer was wrong to let someone else drive the car, but if there was no real harm done (other than to your feelings), it might be easier to just let it go. Definitely follow up with Subaru of America and ding the dealer on the survey, though.
When I bought my OB, I test drove a Winestone model, and then decided I liked Timberline Green better. So, I just picked another OB with the right color and options, and gave it a quick lookover. Hours later, after I finally owned the green car, I found out that there were 80 miles on the ODO. Doh!! I felt a little stupid, and was a little miffed that the car had obviously been test-driven quite a bit. But, 4500 miles later, that initial 80 miles is no big deal.
If you looked over your car thoroughly and there are no problems, my advice to you would be to just forget about it and go out for a fun drive!
Craig
Ask the dealer for something small as a show of good faith and acknowledgment of the "oops". Maybe a couple of free oil changes or car washes. Do not ask for ridiculous things because the mistake was small.
-Colin
The flip out thingy in the wall of teh cup holder is to provide stability for a can or bottle which doesn't fit snugly in the holder.
--------------------------------------------
To anyone else:
I used this site before I bought my subaru last July, and have been away for months. Now I'm contemplating some accessories. Where is the best place to purchase Subaru accessories? I'm having trouble finding the site. Any comments on the automatic mirror w/compass and adding it to an 2000 OB Limited wagon? Perhaps the infamous Suabru Queen - Darlene (I seem to recall when reading posts months ago) can help or respond??
Thanks again to all of you kind and helpful people out there.
-Brad
RayC: I'll reiterate just so my post can be a little longer :-), relax and enjoy your car...end of story! I would add that you can better vent your frustrations w/the customer satisfaction survey that you will receive from Subaru. Believe me when I say that the dealer would not want to have a bad survey. Subaru of America places a lot of weight on these surveys (I think that Patti and Darlene could back me up on this point). Anyhow, we would like to see you post in the future as a happy new Subaru owner not a disgruntled, potential non-customer.
Stephen
You won't find a better place to buy Subaru parts than Qsubaru@aol.com. Darlene's the greatest and the prices are unbeatable (wholesale).
Vince
BTW Blizzaks (which I had on the 92) are definitely better on ice - or at least they inspire more confidence - than the Arctic Alpins but the Michelins ride and handle better on anything else.
Mike, you really weren't kidding in your last post! I'm sorry that it has spread on to this excellent conference area as well. :-(
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
-mike
Drew... why can't you scribble it? Are you like a probationary community leader?
-Colin
GEEEEZZZZZZ I glad we don,t have the 2.5 engine & I didn't buy the turbo!!!!!!
Paisan: Ignore the rock ape and he will go away. Why let an idiot stuff up a good thing?
Gus
Mike, I agree with Colin. You shouldn't have to give up the priviledge of posting just because of someone else's inappropriate conduct.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Colin, getting rear-ended is not supposed to trigger the airbags, so I don't see why that is an argument for how airbags didn't help you in 3 rear-end accidents. I agree, if you wrap your car around a concrete post at 60 mph, physics says you will probably die. But then neither airbags, nor seatbelts would help at all.
Statistics show that airbags have only saved a few thousand lives (out of hundreds of thousands of fatalities) in the last decade. However, this statistic is deceptive. Firstly, few cars on the road ten years ago had airbags. Secondly, they only count people who were in potentially fatal accidents (how would they know, really?) who were NOT wearing seatbelts but had airbags and survived. If they were wearing seatbelts, the study arbitrarily gave the lifesaving credit to the seatbelts alone.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in seatbelts, safety-oriented cars, and paying attention. But I also believe airbags can help quite a bit. Just look at video footage of crash tests in non-airbagged cars...even with a seatbelt on, the dummy's torso is held more or less in place but his head, legs, and arms get flung forward until they are all completely horizontal and the head (in some cases) smacks the steering wheel. Hmm, can't find anything on the internet. I think I saw this film in traffic school years back
oops, sorry for yakking away...
Dave C.
ps: Mike, don't let that sadly pathetic, bored, lonely, loser with nothing better to do with his (yah I don't think it was a her) lame life affect your day in any way =p
BG - you are perfectly correct with the deployment criteria for Side Impact Air-bags. They are dependent on the breaking of the circuits.
Overall airbag comments - In my role, I get to see a lot of letters where airbags have saved lives. One of the more frequent concerns we hear from people is that the bags didn't deploy. When we ask if someone was hurt, more often than not, they were not. The seatbelt did it's job. G-Forces do indicate whether a front bag should go or not. If you hit a deer and it rolls up your hood, more than likely it won't go off. If you hit a wall going full speed, dead on center, it probably will.
Just my opinions.
the salesman said that if we filled out the customer satisfaction survey with all excellents (in essence--not a direct quote), we would get a free oil change. My husband filled out the survey with some areas of not-so-good ratings (they were lucky I wasn't the one filling out the survey!) and we didn't get the oil change. No big deal in one sense--but it has bothered me to do business in this way.
I know when we have had service done that we get back a form saying that if we had any problems, we should notify the service department BEFORE we fill out the customer satisfaction survey from Subaru.
Has anyone else run into this kind of situation?
TonyL-I am still waiting for the hood deflector to arrive here.
I won't be putting it on until 11/11 or 11/18 because of plans for the next 2-3 week-ends. You had said that you would watch for my posts so that you could help me if I had any problems with the install. I wanted to let you know why I hadn't said anything yet about it.
~~~Pat
max $700/yr or $3500/5yrs. The web site says the current policy is 3% rebate in form of $100 coupons, max $500/yr or $2000/4yrs. I called 800 # on the card, and they quoted 5% rebate policy.
I'm still not sure which way I like more. 5% is a very good rebate but I can use it only for new car. 3% is not as good as 5% but I liked the flexibility of using coupons for accessories and service of my 2 current Soobs.
Anyhow... Hey Bay Area retailers, here I come!!!
..Mike
..Mike
Dennis
Acura pulled a similar trick with us last year when we purchased our TL.
Lack of professional integrity, I'd say.
Randy
Mike- ditto the motion for you to stay with us!
-Colin
The kicker to this story is 6000 miles later I have never gottten the survey. I hadn't thought about it until seeing these posts. SOA has my correct address because I just got the ECU recall notice.
Patti, Is there any way I can get that survey?
John
Paisan- stick around, dude. That wierdo isn't ruining anything for us, especially with these speedy scribbles!
For the record, Crew Chiefs cannot scribble posts, either.
Dennis: GTs seem to be a real find. I usually only see 1 or 2 at Fitzgerald, and considering there are different colors, options, trannies, and even body styles - good luck! Try Patti's suggestion.
Kate: glad to hear you insist on passengers wearing their belts. My wife sometimes sits in the back with the baby and I some times have to remind her.
For the someone that asked, Geolander tires are made by Yokohama.
Pat: see if you can take photos of the deflector installation.
-juice
Ron
Now what's a scribble?? Did I miss those posts mike was referring to?
Dennis
most of the posts Mike referred to happened over on the Isuzu Trooper forum, so we here missed them. Probably for the best, from what I can infer. Seems someone is out to harass Mike, and is following him around from forum to forum.
-juice
Thanks,
Ray
Thanks,
Ray
Re: Rigged surveys... I've had this issue with the local Toyota service department (our other car is a Camry) and in fact went so far as to call Toyota and complain, not that the service was other than satisfactory, but only that Toyota of America shouldn't be thinking that they're getting unbiased customer data. I think it's great that a service organization wants to be sure that its customers are satisfied, but I think asking "was everyhting OK?" ONCE is as far as it should go. Interestingly enough, the next time I was in the service department, the "prompted" responses taped to the service desk were not to be found.
--Jay
In any case, I saw it shortly after it was posted and informed Bonnie right away. It, and the user have been taken care of for now, but I fear that this isn't the last that we've seen of him. I've asked if it is possible to invoke a more permanent solution.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
If it's from home IP addresses in his scope could be blocked, but that would keep others from his immediate locale / ISP from entering the forums as well.
There are many other options too.
-Colin
After the break-in period as described in the manual, begin driving the vehicle normally. There is no further need to baby it, or fear that you shouldn't tow, accelerate rapidly, etc. After the break-in it's ready to rock!
-Colin
Speaking of rigged surveys, the guy at the Mazda dealer where we bought our 626 actually told us "fill in these, here", pointing to the column with for the best scores.
Ray: drive smoothly for the first 1000 miles or so. Try to vary speeds, and avoid using cruise control. Be gentle with the brakes and tranny, too, if you can.
After that, you have a rev limiter to let 'er rip. They're designed to handle it.
-juice
Thanks,
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
I very want to take this car and rock it, to see what it can do!
Oh well, I gues I will baby it for the first 1000 miles. I have plan to keep if for a long time
Thanks,
Ray
Bit
Have you driven both of them yet?
-Colin
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
I noticed by your profile that you have a Sidekick. You will find the Forester far more comfortable and powerful. It's an AWD car, not a truck like the Sidekick.
The only thing the Sidekick has over the Forester, is that it is more off-road capable, in that it has a low range, which the Forester does not have.
Subarus are very reliable. That's not an issue to worry about.
Bob