Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

11314161819692

Comments

  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Mike, as I understand, the VTM-4 lock (when activated) progressively deactivates above 6mph and switches off completely at 18mph. For VTM-4 lock to work, one must be in 1st, 2nd, or Reverse gear. VTM-4 lock splits the power about 50/50 an cannot be used on dry pavement or there will be binding (I heard some weird noises - not exactly grinding but close, even on slightly snowy pavement).

    The VTM-4 system does transfer less and less power to the rear wheels as you speed up and eventually it is FWD only, unless there is slippage (you can be above 20mph for the rear wheels to kick in).

    Bob, strange since you'd think that he'd know being a Chrysler mechanic. It is a purely mechanical viscous AWD coupling system, so I don't see why he would think that the system wouldn't work in reverse. Well in any case,I can tell you for sure that AWD does work in reverse. One or twice I've started driving down my snow covered street, realised that I left something in the garage, and backed up with no problems. The front wheels slip for an instant, and then the rear ones help out and I reverse uphill w/o problems.

    I've also accidentally understeered ( snow covered ice) into a couple of small bushes while going around a cul-de-sac, and managed to back up. The only little damage was to my pride ;-) This was last year, and so far, the new BFGoodrich Control T/A M65 tires that the van is wearing seem to be a heck of a lot better than the Big-O-Tires (made by Pirelli)) that were on before. I had to work really hard trying to do donuts in the snow since the rearend just wouldn't come around fast enough because of the amount of grip that was present.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Thanks Drew, I was wondering why they would design a system that shutdown @ 20mph, shoot, I drive over 20mph almost all the time!

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Patti, any luck finding out the specs on the AWD systems on the subies? 90/10 split up to ?, etc. etc. Thanks in advance.

    -mike
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Hi - I'm still awaiting a response. I'll try a different source since we have a lot of folks on the road from headquarters. When I get something, I'll post pronto!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Rob: Bob Bondurant with the son? Talk about father-son bonding!

    Bob's referring to Jake Moran, Mike Moran's brother (BugBomb on i Club). He works at Fitzgerald Chrysler, and he's also in one of the photos from Baltimore.

    It's pretty intersting to hear his perspective on things. He said the PT Cruiser offered poor engine access, which is interesting because everyone's talking about slamming them. He also said the minivan trannys are still iffy, and it's a good idea to flush the ATF every 30k at least.

    The industry has to get the AWD/4WD naming convention right. 4WD to me means it has a low range, plain and simple.

    Otherwise it's AWD. So Honda's "Real Time 4WD" is actually part-time only AWD. So are most of the newcomers, like Tribute, Santa Fe, RAV4, etc.

    -juice
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Drew, being able to back out of trouble is not necessarily an indication of the AWD functioning in reverse. Remember, if it isn't AWD then it is FWD, and remember where the motor is - sitting right on top of the front wheels. Reversing a FWD car up a hill is a very good way to gain a LOT of traction, and it is a good trick to know when the going is slippery and you absolutely must get over the hill.

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but it's even better to know you're driving a Soob!

    ;-)

    -juice
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    Does 4wd vehicles transfer power to each axle like our AWD car does? Or are they lock 50/50? I mean a typical 4wd truck.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    ...if you haven't noticed already? There is now a "post jump" feature available. It works sorta-kinda like it did in the old TH. This one will allow you to enter a previous message number. Click on "go to" and the page will have the post number you entered and the 20 messages after it.

    The Search feature is...comin' along...gettin' better...but still needs some work.

    KarenS
    Owner's Clubs host
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Part Time 4wd trucks (ones that can't be used on dry) send 50/50. Full time ones can vary it through a # of different means (mechanical, electrical, fluid, etc.)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks, Karen. That'll be quite useful.

    Yup, ramon, traditional trucks lock into 4WD. That's why they are for slippery surfaces only, otherwise there would be binding in turns.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Patti,

    I think it would be a great idea to have a more in-depth technical write up on how our AWD systems work in addition to the information already available on the SOA website.

    One reason is that a lot of common questions pop up: How quickly does each system react? What are their torque splits in different gears/speeds? How does it affect driving and handling? A lot of these questions have been answered on an ad hoc basis here, but it would be great to see them summarized in one FAQ.

    A second reason is that with the VDC wagon and WRX, Subaru is introducing yet another flavor of AWD in their vehicles: VTD. How much more different is VTD compared to the Active AWD system?

    Finally, as you know, Subaru owner demographics encompass a higher ratio of engineers and techies -- we like this sort of thing! :)

    Ken
  • brekkebrekke Member Posts: 304
    Sorry I'm late to this topic, but I've been driving a 5sp for less than 2 months and I still make mistakes (arg - I should have this down by now). I've been putting it into neutral at stoplights (but w/o the parking brake, just the foot brake), altho I've been warned that it is illegal to leave the car out of gear in NY.

    I know not to ride the clutch, but I feather it when in reverse, or else I'll shoot out, and also during parking maneuvers or when I'm trying to creep up in traffic. Is this correct? One day I was in traffic traveling less than 5mph so the car was struggling in 1st gear. I didn't want to ride the clutch. How should I have handled the sitch? Any advice is always appreciated.

    Caroline
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Okay let me put it this way. I could see the rear wheels spin initially as I backed up :-) Believe me, it is AWD whether you go forwards, backwards, or sideways (sliding, of couse ). I've had to back up in deep snow after doing donuts in the parking lot :-) Not only this but I did get stuck once when I wasn't paying as much attention as I should've and plowed (at low speed
    Drew
    Host
    Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Caroline,

    At very low speeds you can try being really light on the gas and use smooth throttle inputs too, if you get on or off it suddenly, the car will jerk). If that is still too fast, you have no choice but to engage the clutch and coast.

    This "dance" is why even hardcore MT drivers sometimes favor an automatic in really heavy gridlock.

    -Colin
  • brekkebrekke Member Posts: 304
    That was the problem; we were going too slow for so long I could not coast; the speedometer wasn't even registering, but we never completely stopped. Still, that only happened once in the past two months.

    A natural I'm not but neither would I trade a 5sp for an auto and I bet juice's wife would say the same.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Caroline,

    Even the best MT drivers will find it necessary to slip the clutch a bit when driving at very slow speeds. The best thing to do is to learn the catch point of your clutch. By knowing the point of engagement, you can minimize the amount of slip in situations you describe. The best way to learn this is simply practice letting the clutch out slowly with no gas until you feel the car move forward ever so slighlty.

    When I'm stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic, I'll give it a bit of gas in 1st and then coast in neutral as far as I can go.

    BTW, I believe in NY (and probably other states too), you're not supposed to coast with the car out of gear for saftey reasons -- imagine being rear ended!

    Ken
  • brekkebrekke Member Posts: 304
    Sorry, one more question: how does one burn the clutch, and is there a danger of burning the clutch when slipping the clutch at slow speeds when in traffic? I've been practicing with the catch point, Ken, particularly on hills, and I find it's almost impossible for me to start on an icy incline without slipping. Too little gas and then I kill the engine, of course. Whew, I think I'm overanalyzing this...I envy you pros.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Actually this is the first time I have ever heard anything about NY laws regarding manual transmissions. Does any body know what the laws are? I know that I do slip the clutch a little while driving in traffic. Can that do any major harm to the clutch?
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Great Idea. I'll pass it on up to our e-business group.

    Thanks!

    Patti
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Try to to worry too much about it. When I first learned to drive a stick, my husband got out of the car and refused to teach me. Then, I found that I learned much better going by myself. So, I'd suggest, go somewhere alone and just rock and feel for the right points in a quiet setting. That same clutch now has 105K on it.

    Hang in there and relax. I'm sure you won't be burning out your clutch too soon!

    Patti
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The wife insists on 5 speeds now. It's cool - we save about $800 every time we buy a new vehicle.

    I would not worry about burning out the clutch. It wears slowly, and typically will last anywhere from 60k to 160k miles. Less if you abuse it at the 1/4 mile track.

    I had a used Chevy Sprint while in College (hey, I was poor and it got 50mpg), and its clutch went at around 80k miles or so, IIRC.

    Signs were obvious - it started slipping a lot, then 1st gear was very difficult to engage. Later you could even smell it burning, and eventually it just gave in completely.

    Before that I had a beater Datsun that also had a worn clutch. It slipped so much that I used it to teach my wife - it's easier to learn when it doesn't engage suddenly.

    Anyhow, don't sweat it. You should get at least 5 years of use out of it. They're also relatively cheap to replace (at least compared to rebuilding an auto tranny).

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Caroline, there may be no solution to the icy incline problem besides winter tires. If you already have winter tires (not all-seasons) and you're still spinning the tires no matter what whenever you try to accelerate uphill... then it's pretty darned slick. ;-)

    Winter tires make a huge difference over all seasons, even with AWD.

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Caroline -- Patti's right on. It takes a bit to smoke your clutch. Don't worry about having to feather it. As for starting on hills, I usually go with my favorite -- parking brake. When you get better, you can try heal-toeing, but that's another topic.


    Mark -- Check out Section 1216:


    http://assembly.state.ny.us/cgi-bin/claws?law=128&art=57


    Ken

  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Wow can now go to post # such and such again.
    Fantasticcccccccccccccccccccccccc.
    Cheers Pat.
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Re: fandc Jan 22, 2001 2:40pm

    Rob, Cool that you took a driving class with your son! I'm dreaming of that day now. Let me know if you figure out a work-around for the "borrow the GT for a rally" issue.

    Re: drew_ Jan 22, 2001 5:25pm

    Drew, Bravo, BRAVO! Man you are plugged in to things automotive. Thanks for participating in these here parts. Your different perspective enhances the knowledge here and keeps us honest.

    Re: KarenS Jan 23, 2001 8:10am

    Karen, any chance of the "List all messages" returning? I understand the problem is the feature consumes a fair amount of resources but I hope a sufficiently large SQL cache would remedy that.

    The lack of the "List all messages" feature is unfortunate: Edmunds was a valuable knowledge base and has become a sequential, temporal chat log. Without it, you can't find prior messages or refer people to them. With it, Edmunds becomes, to quote Sir Topham Hatt, "A really useful engine."

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hey, I'm not sure if any of you would be interested in any bars from East Coast Bull Bars in Australia, but I'm currently doing a group buy on their products for the Isuzu guys, thought maybe some of the Trooper or OB people here might be interested. You can check out their products at http://ecb.com.au/ e-mail me off-line if interested and I'll get you a price.


    -mike

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The nudge bars look pretty cool. They're a smaller version of what you have on the Trooper, I guess.

    Their site offers no prices whatsoever. Any idea of the general price range?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    i'd guess around $200-$300 since the trooper one is $295 which includes shipping. They are very high quality, and Airbag Compliant, as well they mount far enough from the bumper to actually protect the bumper. (might stop the front bumper from being ripped off in a poor angle of approach situation)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Ozzies have been trying to talk me into Lovell springs (for a 2" lift), but I just don't see needing that extra capability.

    If I went that route, though, the nudge bar would go well with it.

    -juice
  • jpb57jpb57 Member Posts: 4
    I practiced in a cemetary--not a lot of people around to laugh at you. Lots of rolling hills to go up and peace and quiet. Nobody around to beep at you when you stall your car. You can do the manual thing--I have for 20 years and would not take an automatic now. I like the ability to control my car's power. Good luck! Leslie
  • jresjres Member Posts: 69
    If I'm reading it right, the NYS law about coasting is specific to coasting down hill, not on level ground. This sounds like it is geared (pardon the expression) to big trucks who should use compression braking to help maintain control and stop their brakes from giving out.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Ken,

    Thanks for the info on the NY laws. That is something I never knew about. I don't remember if I was told by the instructor who taught me to drive stick or not. I took one lesson so that I could drive home my first car, a 76 Corolla 5 spd that I bought for $75. One thing he did tell me that has always stuck in my mind: Just drive the car, and if you stall, you stall. Don't worry about any thing or any body who might be honking their horns (I learned in Brooklyn). Just put it in neutral and start all over. I've been driving stick for 13 years now, and have no intention of diving anything else again.
  • brekkebrekke Member Posts: 304
    hehe, thanks to everyone for answering my questions about clutches, OBS weight, etc. I appreciate that nobody makes me feel dumb for asking questions. Anyway, I just need this car to last me until i can buy a new OBS; it's got 211K miles on it and my brother is tired of me asking "Should I replace this or that?" (My b/f called me an "auto-chondriac" because I always think there is something wrong with my car.) Now I'm trying to break the habit of resting my hand on the shifter.

    -Caroline
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Mark,

    Being a native of Brooklyn myself (Park Slope) I hear you on the horn-happy drivers. I myself learned how to drive on Broadway in rush-hour Manhattan traffic. I learned on an automatic, but the crescendo of taxi cab horns behind me was enough to give me a case of sweaty palms.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Caroline: 211k? Sweet!

    Hang in there, the new OBS should be out in March at dealerships. If you're in the area, consider going to the Philadelphia show for a preview.

    Driving in NYC is nuts. DC is very tame in comparison. Except for our circles, they can get a little hairy for some folks.

    -juice
  • fernieguyfernieguy Member Posts: 55
    What ever happened to the hill brake that Subaru's had? My old GL wagon had it and it worked great, but I notice my Forester doesn't, whats up?

    Stephen
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Where else on a Red, Yellow or Green light can you: stop, go forward, make a left, make a right, or go backwards?

    Drive a big car and carry a large push-bar!

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Reminds me of Brazil - at red lights, at least at night, you're told not to stop. You could get robbed!

    -juice
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    miksmi Jan 23, 2001 10:35pm

    Sorry, but the "see all msgs" feature won't be returning. :-(

    KarenS
    Owner's Club host
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    my poor 99 OBS feels old already. ;'( But it still drives like new. :-)
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    KarenS. Boooo!!!! Can I ask why not? As Mike S. stated, the "see all msgs" was an invaluable feature in conjunction with the browser's search capability of a page's contents. Just try using the current 20 posts at a time setup to search for a reference to a particular subject within a topic containing 1000+ posts. It's just about useless!

    -Frank P.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    re: fernieguy Jan 24, 2001 9:24am , hillholder

    The hillholder disappeared around 96-97. It was a victim of the cable clutch making way for the hydraulic.

    -Colin
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Caroline- I want to 2nd what Patti said about not worrying too much about it. I always keep the clutch depressed at lights and I sold my last vehicle after 120k and it still had the original clutch.

    -Frank P.
  • brekkebrekke Member Posts: 304
    I'm not driving an OBS now, I have an '87 integra which is hundreds of lbs lighter than a subie, which is why I was concerned about weight. But I'm switching to Sube for my first new car. Ever since I read the "Death by the gallon" article, and how people who have died in small cars would have survived in slightly larger, heavier cars, I am more aware of what a deathtrap I am driving...
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The hill-holder-clutch is still offered in other markets. If you check some of the overseas Subaru sites—United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, to name a few; you'll see it's still offered.

    Are you saying those models don't use a hydraulic clutch?

    Bob
  • brekkebrekke Member Posts: 304
    I would love a comparison from you on the new OBS vs the old OBS if you ever decide to test-drive one.

    -Caroline
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    would love to drive a stock OBS to compare. My OBS is no longer the same as the regular OBS caroline. I'll prolly take the new OBS for a spin for sure. But it's not fair to compare my OBS to it.
    I wouldn't be worried about the extra weight. You have to realise that these cars have a lot more torque than any Integra. =)
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    As far as I know, Australian spec Subarus are fitted with hydraulic brakes and a hill holder system. It seems to work just fine. I can only presume that they are not fitted to US spec cars for cost reasons.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Not brakes, clutch. I was told that the US and Canadien models lost their hillholder when the switch was made from a cable-operated clutch to hydraulic.

    Could absolutely be a coincidence and cost cutting, but I've never heard of a North American Subaru with *both* a hydraulic clutch and the hill holder.

    -Colin
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.