Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,722
    There was a time when I went by maintenance schedules, but then the schedules started getting oddly conservative on some stuff (brake fluid) while leaving other things off the list entirely (transmission fluid!). So now I go by what makes sense for my use cases.

    The last time I had a Subaru that was as new as this one was when we bought it (our 2010 Forester, which was actually new), I went about 80,000 miles on the plugs and could never tell the difference. The car ran just fine at that time - there was no hint of any issues. Same was true on the 2013 Forester, which I changed at about 90,000 (we bought that one with 55,000 miles on the ticker). So, I didn't figure that plugs would be an issue at all on the Crosstrek last year when I was doing maintenance (Crosstrek was at about 82,000 miles then).

    It was on my short list of items, but when I heard that odd sound a couple months ago, I knew that it was definitely time to do it this year!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited July 10
    xwesx said:

    ...So, let's do the math:

    Maintenance/repair at $10,000 over 10 years = $1,000 / year.
    Cheap new vehicle payment at $400 per month over 10 years = $4,800 / year (not confined to one vehicle over the full ten years!).

    I can pay for a lot of maintenance and repairs annually and still come out way ahead on that one! For example, this year was a pretty expensive year for me in terms of maintaining my fleet. I had to replace the clutch on the 2013 Forester, put new plugs and ignition coils in the 2018 Crosstrek, replaced the turbo on the 2014 Q7 (among other items), etc.... I spent about $3,600 on all of that, or about $1,200 per car.

    As you say, even if you are getting to the point of paying $1000 to $1200 a year to maintain a car, that's just $100 a month, compared to a minimum of $400 a month for a new car payment or lease.

    And actually a more realistic number for a car payment these days is the $725 a month me and my wife are paying for her new Subaru. It was a four year loan subsidized by Subaru to 1.9%. I know many people today go five years on a loan, or even six or seven, but I'm glad that we are now down to just three years left to pay off our Outback.

    Currently the amount we still owe on our Outback is about $26,000 for a car that had an original list price of $36k, but which we got discounted to $34k. Anyway, with 11,000 miles on it and not really a scratch on it that I've seen, even though we park it outside, my guess is that even as a trade-in it's probably worth $26k? Anyway, I don't think we have negative equity. In another year the loan amount will be down to $17k, probably it'll be worth more than that.

    When we bought our Outback Huffman Subaru in Louisville gave us (as they give all buyers) three years of oil changes and tire rotations, and so our first three years of maintenance will be very low.

    After that my guess is we'll average about $500 a year for next seven or so years. Of course that'll be quite uneven, with some years just being two oil changes and a tire rotation for $150 or so, but I expect a bill of maybe $2k for the 60,000 mile tune up + transmission fluid change.

    Anyway, I'm guessing that after we pay off the car maintenance might average $50 a month or so compared to a new car payment of $700 or more.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 264,089
    We bought our Subaru with the express intent of getting off the negative equity roller coaster. After 10 years and 75,000 miles, the car is worth likely $10-12K in trade value. It's not perfect - a door ding here, a scratch in the paint on the bumper there - but it cleans up nicely and looks darn good from 25' away.

    Car payments are getting unbelievably expensive - I thought I saw an article not too long ago that suggested that a decent percentage of payments are now over 4 figures.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    @Michaell Sounds like you're still happy with your Outback with the powerful 3.6. What kind of mpg do you get? Do you think you're likely to hang on to it for another five years or so, or are you thinking about trading it in on something newer?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 264,089
    benjaminh said:

    @Michaell Sounds like you're still happy with your Outback with the powerful 3.6. What kind of mpg do you get? Do you think you're likely to hang on to it for another five years or so, or are you thinking about trading it in on something newer?

    I started a detailed mileage log when I started to drive the car on a regular basis in 2019 (when my Jetta lease was up, we realized we didn't need two cars, as my wife and daughter commute together).

    I've got about 6 years of data at this point, and the numbers are as follows:

    Average MPG = 21 (I would say this is 70:30 city:highway driving; the EPA numbers from the sticker are 21 and 27)

    My best tank was 24 MPG; the worst, about 18 MPG (living in Colorado with extreme hot and cold temps affects the mileage)

    In that time, I'm averaging about 17 days between fill ups (COVID pushed that number pretty high; at the moment I'm filling up every 2 weeks)

    As far as whether I'll keep it or not, that is the $64 question. Because my wife doesn't read these forum posts, I can tell you that I've been seriously considering making a change in the next 6 months or so. Not that there's anything wrong with the car, but because I think it's time for something new - and, likely, at my age, to be the last car we get (gasp!). I'd like to pay cash for this one, using my retirement funds along with the trade value.

    But, I struggle with what to get and how much to spend. Today, I think the budget is about $40K-ish - $10K in trade and $30K in cash. Lots of nice cars in and around that price point.

    I'm pretty sure I'd go hybrid, and I'm a sucker for sedans, so I've been eyeing the Accord, Sonata, or Camry Hybrids. The Camry is available with AWD, but that's not a deal breaker. I'd prefer something other than a black interior, and each model has an alternative color - grey for the Honda, a rich brown for the Sonata, and red for the Camry.

    If, however, the wife wants an SUV, then the options change - still a hybrid, but I'm now thinking CR-V, CX-50, or Tucson.

    I'd also consider a used 5-series, though my budget would limit me to the 530i or 530e (PHEV).

    Anyway, today I have to fill up the Outback, and I'm likely to swing by the car wash and do a degrease and rinse of the engine bay - something I haven't done in the 10+ years of ownership. I'll try to remember to get before and after pictures.

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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited July 10
    Michaell said:

    ...Not that there's anything wrong with the car, but because I think it's time for something new - and, likely, at my age, to be the last car we get (gasp!)...

    Yeah, it's disconcerting to realize that I might already be on my last car. I'm in good health at the moment, knock on wood, and so is my wife, but now that we're both c. 61 years old...

    But I'm with you on sedans, and if the TLX is my last car I'm still loving it every time I drive it. I really like my wife's luxurious and practical Outback, but for driving fun my TLX is in a different league bc of the low center of gravity, 4-wheel steering, 8-speed dual-clutch trans with torque convertor, more powerful engine, etc. Plus the ELS sound system in the Acura is better.

    You may not want to yet in that more popular thread, but perhaps you might consider bringing your thoughts to Chronic Car Buyers to see what they say?

    Since your wife might want an SUV (my wife certainly does, and complains about the low seating position in my TLX a couple of times a year) have you considered making the Outback 3.6 her car, and then getting a sedan for yourself?

    The new Camry is impressive, and we considered getting it. But as you know better than I Toyotas like that are in such short supply that it's almost impossible to get any kind of discount, and in fact some dealers add something onto the list price in the form of a "protection package" or similar. Honda dealers are almost as bad.

    Still, even the Camry LE has 225 hp and an msrp of $30k. The XLE for c. $36k looks from the pix and specs to be close to Lexus levels of luxury and performance. Good deal even at full list price from my pov.

    We found that even if the list prices were similar between a CR-V and an Outback, in the real world the Honda was at least 2k more than list, while the Subaru was 2k under list.

    Have you considered the new Forester hybrid, or are you ready to experience a different brand?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    My first suggestion would be to try to sell your spouse on an AWD Camry hybrid in the luxury XLE level. Your Colorado climate, and the fact that you're both used to AWD, makes that $1500 AWD option on the Camry a good idea from my pov. If you skip the other options that would mean an msrp of about $37k

    My second suggestion, if you can't sell your wife on a fun-to-drive sedan, would be a Subaru Forester Hybrid Premium, which has an msrp of $38k
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 264,089
    benjaminh said:

    My first suggestion would be to try to sell your spouse on an AWD Camry hybrid in the luxury XLE level. Your Colorado climate, and the fact that you're both used to AWD, makes that $1500 AWD option on the Camry a good idea from my pov. If you skip the other options that would mean an msrp of about $37k

    My second suggestion, if you can't sell your wife on a fun-to-drive sedan, would be a Subaru Forester Hybrid Premium, which has an msrp of $38k

    I've already cut/pasted a majority of my screed into the CCBA thread; I'll see what suggestions I get in just a moment.

    Yes, I've considered the Forester hybrid, just not sure it would be big enough if we decided an SUV is the way to go. And, I'm not trying to knock your Outback, but I've not heard great things about the infotainment systems in the newer Subarus.

    I'm looking at the top trim specs of each model I've listed - for the Camry, that would be the XSE trim. Roughly $40-42K. Accord Touring, Sonata Limited, etc.

    My wife drives the Outback maybe 2-3 times a year - she's either a passenger when I drive it or she's riding with her daughter in the Sportage Hybrid when they go to work. Therefore, no real need for a 3rd car that would have to live outside, where we get snow, hail, and strong sunshine (remember, being a mile high in altitude means the sun is stronger here).

    Remember, before I took over the Outback as my DD, I had an Elantra GT (hatch) and a Jetta SE on lease before we realized we didn't need that 3rd car.

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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,722
    Hey, I was serious about that Outback.... let me know when you are getting serious, because I suspect my son might be more than interested to snap that puppy up from you.

    On the fuel economy front, I think you're doing pretty good with it considering the high altitude, long winters, and heavy city bias.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 264,089

    I forgot the before pic

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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,722
    According to my wife, the Crosstrek runs "exactly the same" as it did before. Go figure.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 16
    This detailed tear down of a Subaru CVT is interesting. You can see why these transmissions cost so much. At 11 minutes and 30 seconds he compares the much smaller CVT belt from a Corolla with the larger and more heavy duty belt of the Outback.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovJdaX9rtEg
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    In this comparison between the Mazda CX-50 hybrid and the Subaru Forester hybrid the Subaru wins big...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a6MINyhWDw
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 264,089
    benjaminh said:

    In this comparison between the Mazda CX-50 hybrid and the Subaru Forester hybrid the Subaru wins big...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a6MINyhWDw

    I've looked at both of these as a possible replacement for our Outback. The Forester Touring is $3-4K more expensive than the CX-50 Premium Plus, in hybrid form.

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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 16
    Michaell said:


    I've looked at both of these as a possible replacement for our Outback. The Forester Touring is $3-4K more expensive than the CX-50 Premium Plus, in hybrid form.

    From my pov the Forester hybrid Premium for an msrp of $38k is already loaded, and saves $7000 compared to the Touring. The Forester hybrid Premium already has as standard a panoramic sunroof, blind-spot monitoring and cross-traffic alert, power rear gate, digital instrument cluster, power driver's seat, remote start, EyeSight adaptive cruise, etc., etc.

    What does the Touring have that you really need? Leather? From my pov cloth is better—cooler in summer, nicer to sit on in winter, lasts the life of the car without cracking.

    Anyway, as the test says the CX-50 has about 20% less cargo room with the seats folded than the Forester. The CX-50 also feels a bit tight inside in the back seat, which is also mentioned in the review. Rear visibility in the CX-50 is poor. The Mazda console dial for controlling the screen is not my favorite. I quickly got used to the dash dial in my Acura though, so probably it's okay. But it didn't feel intuitive on the test drive.

    When I did a test drive in the CX-50 I could tell it had a torsion beam rear suspension. Ride was jittery and handling from my pov was not impressive.

    But from my pov I'd skip both of these and get the Outback, which in the current model that's about to go away is the "Acura" of Subaru wagons. It's a different generation than your Outback and has a quieter interior and more of a luxury ride. Also just nicer than the Forester in almost every way from my pov. But I realize that means skipping getting a hybrid. Mpg is still okay.

    Subaru currently has 0.9% for 36 months on the Outback, and they'd probably give you an okay trade-in on your old one. You could probably get the last of the loaded turbo Outback Touring wagons for less than the price of a Forester hybrid Touring, and it'll accelerate better if you ever need that. Since you have the six cylinder Outback you are used to 0-60 in 7 seconds or less. The Forester hybrid is more like 8.5 iirc. That's good enough for me, but might not be for you given what you have now.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 16
    PS I know I've mentioned this before, but all the complaints about Subaru's 11 inch vertical screen I think are overdone. When you start the car it takes half a minute or so for the thing to fully get its computer brain going as it checks all the systems or whatever. That is slightly annoying. But if you try to avoid pushing buttons for that first 30 seconds as you're getting going, after that I think it words pretty well, and I prefer it to the Mazda screen and the smaller Honda screens.

    Maybe you should do some test drives of these vehicles and share with us your impressions and evaluations?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 16
    According to Car and Driver the Outback turbo can go 0-60 in 5.8 seconds.

    C & D's 0-60 time for the Forester hybrid is 8.6 seconds.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/subaru/outback-2025

    https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a64352235/2025-subaru-forester-hybrid-drive/

    As a comparison, your 2015 Outback 3.6 according to C & D has a 0-60 of 6.9.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15109939/2015-subaru-outback-36r-instrumented-test-review/

    Imho going to a new Outback turbo won't be that much like your current car. Ten years later enough has changed on the Outback that it will seem different. Dozens of changes and improvements. But some positive similarities like the size, cargo room, and good rear visibility. Plus a full second faster getting to 60. Also slightly better mpg.

    Or for something even more different from the current Outback your could be one of the first to get the 2026 Outback. I'm still getting used to the looks of the 2026 Outback, but it does offer some improvements over the 2025. The current Outback is built in Indiana, but starting with the 2026 models they'll be built in Japan. Even with the tariffs price increases will probably not be that bad. Subaru is spreading the tariff price pain over their whole line-up, like most are doing, and so mrsps might only be $1k or so more than this year's model. But real world it may take some time for discounts to be available.


    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    A detailed video on maintenance and repairs for a 2015 Crosstrek that has gone over a million miles. Owner is a medical courier. The engine was replaced at 630,000 miles, and so from my pov that's more how far it went. Oil changes were every c. 12k with Mobile 1 extended performance. Spark plugs every 100k.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohipSOlVVjA
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 17
    She gives a detailed review of the Outback Touring with the turbo engine and likes it a lot. She even liked the 11.6 inch vertical touchscreen, which is more elegantly integrated into the dash than with the Forester.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmJI19iY4E&t=34s

    A dealer in Cincinnati is offering $3,000 discounts on high end Outbacks + 0.9% financing for 36 months from Subaru, or 1.9% for up to 72 months. Loaded with features + 0-60 in 6 seconds this seems like a lot of car for the money. The Limited, which is just below the Touring, has the Harmon Kardon sound system, leather, heated rear seats, heated steering wheel, heavy duty transmission to handle the power of the turbo, etc. Uses regular gas unlike some turbos that ask for premium. Wouldn't mind having one of these myself, except for that I still love my TLX and it's paid off.


    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 264,089
    benjaminh said:

    She gives a detailed review of the Outback Touring with the turbo engine and likes it a lot. She even liked the 11.6 inch vertical touchscreen, which is more elegantly integrated into the dash than with the Forester.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmJI19iY4E&t=34s

    A dealer in Cincinnati is offering $3,000 discounts on high end Outbacks + 0.9% financing for 36 months from Subaru, or 1.9% for up to 72 months. Loaded with features + 0-60 in 6 seconds this seems like a lot of car for the money. The Limited, which is just below the Touring, has the Harmon Kardon sound system, leather, heated rear seats, heated steering wheel, heavy duty transmission to handle the power of the turbo, etc. Uses regular gas unlike some turbos that ask for premium. Wouldn't mind having one of these myself, except for that I still love my TLX and it's paid off.


    You'd think that after 10 years they could improve the MPGs - those are basically the same numbers as my 2015 3.6R

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    25 mpg combined was what I was getting with my 2000 Legacy sedan 5-speed manual.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 18
    Michaell said:

    You'd think that after 10 years they could improve the MPGs - those are basically the same numbers as my 2015 3.6R

    Your 2015 Outback 3.6 gets 22 mpg combined while a 2025 Outback turbo gets 25. That's about a 14% improvement, which is something given that the 0-60 is a also a second faster with a new Outback turbo.

    But yeah, if you want dramatically better mpg with fast acceleration one of your best options would be a Camry, which gets twice the miles out of gallon as your Outback. The Camry's AWD system is probably good enough, but it's not as good as Subaru's symmetrical AWD if in really snowy situations, which seems likely in Colorado.

    The Camry has a nice 15 cubic foot trunk, and folding rear seats, but the Outback has 32.6 cubic feet behind the rear seats, and 75.6 cubic feet of cargo room with the seats folded. Ground clearance in a Camry is 5.4 inches, compared to 8.7 for an Outback. That 3+ inches can make a difference if you ever drive uneven/dirt roads or more likely have frozen snow on the road.

    Iirc you said your 2015 Outback has close to 100k? If so around 10k a year.

    We drove our 2024 Outback almost exactly 10k in the first year we owned it, and it was about the same on my wife's previous car. Given our 10k a year average mileage, I wondered what the payback would be for buying a Forester Hybrid vs a regular Forester (which has identical mpg to a non-turbo Outback), and the numbers weren't good.

    The hybrid Forester costs $2400 more than a comparably equipped regular Forester. Driving 10,000 miles a year at our low KY gas prices of around $2.80 a gallon means that we would only save $150 a year at current gas prices by driving a Subaru hybrid. It would take about 16 years for a Forester hybrid to "pay for itself." By then I'm sure we'd have moved on to another car if we're still around, but after 16 years if it doesn't go to the junkyard a hybrid is almost certainly going to need a new battery, which apparently is around $5k for parts and labor.

    I looked it up, and Costco gas prices in Colorado are about the same as KY.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 264,089
    benjaminh said:

    Michaell said:

    You'd think that after 10 years they could improve the MPGs - those are basically the same numbers as my 2015 3.6R

    Your 2015 Outback 3.6 gets 22 mpg combined while a 2025 Outback turbo gets 25. That's about a 14% improvement, which is something given that the 0-60 is a also a second faster with a new Outback turbo.

    But yeah, if you want dramatically better mpg with fast acceleration one of your best options would be a Camry, which gets twice the miles out of gallon as your Outback. The Camry's AWD system is probably good enough, but it's not as good as Subaru's symmetrical AWD if in really snowy situations, which seems likely in Colorado.

    The Camry has a nice 15 cubic foot trunk, and folding rear seats, but the Outback has 32.6 cubic feet behind the rear seats, and 75.6 cubic feet of cargo room with the seats folded. Ground clearance in a Camry is 5.4 inches, compared to 8.7 for an Outback. That 3+ inches can make a difference if you ever drive uneven/dirt roads or more likely have frozen snow on the road.

    Iirc you said your 2015 Outback has close to 100k? If so around 10k a year.

    We drove our 2024 Outback almost exactly 10k in the first year we owned it, and it was about the same on my wife's previous car. Given our 10k a year average mileage, I wondered what the payback would be for buying a Forester Hybrid vs a regular Forester (which has identical mpg to a non-turbo Outback), and the numbers weren't good.

    The hybrid Forester costs $2400 more than a comparably equipped regular Forester. Driving 10,000 miles a year at our low KY gas prices of around $2.80 a gallon means that we would only save $150 a year at current gas prices by driving a Subaru hybrid. It would take about 16 years for a Forester hybrid to "pay for itself." By then I'm sure we'd have moved on to another car if we're still around, but after 16 years if it doesn't go to the junkyard a hybrid is almost certainly going to need a new battery, which apparently is around $5k for parts and labor.

    I looked it up, and Costco gas prices in Colorado are about the same as KY.
    My Outback has just under 76,000 miles after 10 1/2 years.

    It's currently full of donation stuff from our basement that has to go to the Salvation Army later today. Doubt I could make that work in a Camry, sadly. I drove an XSE a few weeks ago and was pretty impressed by it.

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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 18
    Michaell said:

    My Outback has just under 76,000 miles after 10 1/2 years.

    It's currently full of donation stuff from our basement that has to go to the Salvation Army later today. Doubt I could make that work in a Camry, sadly. I drove an XSE a few weeks ago and was pretty impressed by it.

    There's no doubt that the Camry is an awesome vehicle, from LE to XSE.

    But if you only drive around 8k a year the gas savings aren't that much between a 2025 Turbo Outback and a 2025 Camry XSE AWD. At current Costco gas prices in Colorado of c. $280 a gallon you'd only save about $400 a year.

    I know you were planning to trade-in your Outback and maybe even just buy your new vehicle outright. But if with a big downpayment you financed $30k + sales tax and fees with Toyota's 5% financing you'd pay $2434 in interest over 3 years/36 months. If you financed 30k + sales tax and fees with Subaru's 0.9% you'd pay only $447 in interest. That's $662 more in interest each year with a Toyota, which would more than wipe out your gas savings for those years. In fact, the almost $2000 saved in interest for the loan would cover 5 years of gas savings.

    But btw how did you like the Panoramic moonroof on the Camry XSE? It looks pretty nice.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 264,089
    benjaminh said:

    Michaell said:

    My Outback has just under 76,000 miles after 10 1/2 years.

    It's currently full of donation stuff from our basement that has to go to the Salvation Army later today. Doubt I could make that work in a Camry, sadly. I drove an XSE a few weeks ago and was pretty impressed by it.

    There's no doubt that the Camry is an awesome vehicle, from LE to XSE.

    But if you only drive around 8k a year the gas savings aren't that much between a 2025 Turbo Outback and a 2025 Camry XSE AWD. At current Costco gas prices in Colorado of c. $280 a gallon you'd only save about $400 a year.

    I know you were planning to trade-in your Outback and maybe even just buy your new vehicle outright. But if with a big downpayment you financed $30k + sales tax and fees with Toyota's 5% financing you'd pay $2434 in interest over 3 years/36 months. If you financed 30k + sales tax and fees with Subaru's 0.9% you'd pay only $447 in interest. That's $662 more in interest each year with a Toyota, which would more than wipe out your gas savings for those years. In fact, the almost $2000 saved in interest for the loan would cover 5 years of gas savings.

    But btw how did you like the Panoramic moonroof on the Camry XSE? It looks pretty nice.
    I didn't open it, TBH - it was a 90+ degree day in Denver when I took the test drive.

    I think a new car is on hold for the time being. Going to be investing some money into the house, instead. Perhaps in a year or so.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,722
    edited August 18
    Good option. I am pondering a Sienna hybrid AWD as my next auto, but I'm in no hurry either.

    Going back to the Crosstrek.... ours is at just under 107,000 now, and, after changing the oil in May at a little under 99,000 miles, I swear the oil level hasn't budged a bit. And, that's after pushing it hard over the Rockies and at 80+ across the plains for hours and hours on end (the engine was probably spinning at close to 3,400 RPM).
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    Toyota hybrids are great vehicles. But as a result they are in such short supply that sometimes to get one you have to pay so much that it might wipe out any gas savings for many years. My large local Toyota dealer has only one Sienna hybrid in stock, but not really...It's listed as "sale pending," and has an msrp of 57k.


    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,722
    Yep, that has definitely been a downer on serious consideration of making a move. I'm fine for now. The Q7 and Forester just hit eight years under my ownership earlier this year, so they're both good for another two (or more!) anyway. And, well, the Crosstrek is still just a babe itself, why would I possibly consider replacing it?! :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 19
    The video below is a 15-minute interview with the lead engineer for the 2026 Outback. Here are the improvements I see in this new Outback from this video and other sources...

    Slightly larger/higher, and so it has even more headroom and more cargo space. Cargo space with the rear seats up increases by two cubic feet to almost 35 cubic feet. Total cargo space with the seats down might go up by about four cubic feet to eighty, which would probably be the largest in the class.

    The infotainment has been changed from the 11.6-inch vertical screen to a 12-inch horizontal screen with a more powerful processor and better software. I like the vertical screen, but admit that the new system looks even better, in part bc all of the climate controls now have physical buttons.

    The steering feel has been improved for 2026 with a modified version of the WRX's steering rack.

    The standard roof rack has been strengthened. It's now strong enough you can hang a hammock off of it.

    Seat comfort has been improved, and the seat ventilation on the top models is more powerful and also quieter.

    Standard wireless phone charger.

    Standard digital gauge cluster with integrated navi.

    Larger door pockets are now felt lined, so you can fit a large water bottle in those and it won't rattle.

    They've added built-in shade extenders to the sun visors.

    360 degree camera on top models. Improved back-up camera resolution on all models.

    Improved EyeSight system with 3 cameras instead of 2.

    Improved cargo cover made of recycled materials.

    Blind-spot monitoring and cross-traffic alert are now standard on the entry-level Premium model, as is smart entry/push button start. Previously these were options at extra cost on the Premium, and not even available on the base model.

    The current Outback is already luxury-car quiet and smooth, but according to Subaru's press release the new one is ever better..."Inside the cabin, the new Subaru Outback is quieter and more refined thanks to sound-absorbing materials used in the roof and headliner. Wind noise has been reduced by 10% thanks to aerodynamic elements in the body sides and roof rails."

    https://media.subaru.com/pressrelease/2309/subaru-debuts-all-new-2026-outback-bold-new

    Finally, I like the new brighter green color as shown in the video. The green for the current generation is strange from my pov, with so much brown or something added that it's unappealing.





    But there are a few minor things that from my pov aren't quite as good as in the current Outback.

    The rear seats on my Outback recline a little, but the recline has been taken out for 2026.

    The vanity mirrors in my sun visors have lights on each side, but on the 2026 just one light on one side. My wife thinks two lights are better for even illumination.

    Cloth seats, which I like, have been eliminated for 2026. Base model has also been axed. The new starting point for 2026 has vinyl/"Startex" seats in the Premium model. Startex will definitely be durable, however, and easy to clean.

    Built-in crossbars are standard on the current Outback's standard roof rack. The crossbars will be an optional accessory for 2026.

    Styling is subjective, of course, but I slightly prefer the current generation of Outback to the 2026. But the more I look at the 2026 the more I like it.


    The current Outback is made in Lafayette, Indiana at the huge factory I just toured. For 2026 Outback production will move back to Japan. So tariffs apply, but will be spread evenly over the lineup.

    Prices have already increased on the Outback by about $1700 bc of tariffs since we got ours a year ago. My guess is that prices on the 2026 Outback for comparably equipped models will only go up by maybe another $500-1000. But since the new Outback no longer has the base model, my guess is that the 2026 Premium Outback Premium with destination will have an msrp of c. $36,500, which is still a good value for the money. The top Touring model with the optional turbo will probably be close $48k once you add all weather floor mats, etc.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfexyrEW66Q
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 19
    So here's how to try to avoid most of the tariff price increases on Subarus. First, as far as I can tell all Subarus at dealers come with factory added accessories like rubber floor mats, rear cargo area mats, etc. On our Outback these accessories only came to about $500, but even a year later they seem to be loading more of these on and the prices have gone up a bit, and so most have about a thousand dollars of these rubber add ons and other things that aren't essential from my pov. If you can get a dealer to take a special order for your Subaru, you should be able to skip all of those and save about $1000.

    Subarus already come with very nice standard carpeted mats for no extra charge. Unless you're driving in mud a lot, I don't quite get the obsession with keeping the carpets and carpet mats in a car so pristine that they go to the junkyard that way 15 years later. Take off your shoes once in a while while you're in your car and enjoy your nice carpets. The carpet quality in our Outback is as good if not better than my Acura, and definitely better than all the Honda we've owned.

    Second discount strategy for a Subaru is to join the environmental organization "Leave No Trace," which encourages the careful enjoyment of nature, picking up after yourselves, etc. If you join this organization for $60 a year after three months you're eligible for Subaru's VIP purchase program. The VIP program allows you to call Subaru's special line to get a certificate that allows you to get invoice pricing without haggling on almost all Subaru models. I think that means about an 8% discount. On a 40k car that's about $3000 off, plus you can still use Subaru's discount financing. You might be able to get a discount that big anyway, but to avoid haggling it seems like a relaxed way to do it.

    I actually joined Leave No Trace before we got our Outback for this program, but then a dealer offered an almost equivalent discount on an in-stock model in the color my wife wanted, plus we got the 1.9% financing before it expired that year, and so we did that instead.

    https://lnt.org/subaru-vip/

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 20
    This three minute video by Consumer Reports highlights starting at 1:40 the reduced visibility in the new Outback, especially in the rear. The B-pillars on the 2026 Outback look like they're about twice as thick as the ones on the current generation. I also prefer the integrated look of the screen in our Outback over the one that sticks up on the dash in the new one. Finally, I prefer analog gauges over all digital. I feel overall that we own the best generation Outback. The "angry robot" styling of the new one is also probably a bridge too far for me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dONes97zcZQ
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 20
    My dream was that the new Outback would be a current-day AWD lifted version of a 1990s Volvo wagon, or even better a c. 2010 BMW 5-series wagon.





    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    Sent these videos to our next generation along with their Outback.

    This is a 4-minute comparison by Consumer Reports comparing the Subaru Forester with the Honda CR-V and the Toyota RAV4 in snow, showing that Subaru’s symmetrical full-time AWD system is better.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-TQdIqFvZo

    A 2-minute test by an independent testing organization showing the same thing with 5 AWD vehicles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIxcArAOprM
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,633
    edited August 27
    https://www.carscoops.com/2025/08/the-most-satisfying-mainstream-brand-might-surprise-you/

    "America’s Most Satisfying Car Brands To Own Revealed And Some Big Names Took A Hard Fall
    Subaru beat out Mazda and Toyota to take top honors in the mainstream segment

    by Michael Gauthier
    August 20, 2025

    ...Jumping into specifics, Subaru was deemed the most satisfying brand with a score of 85. It was followed by Mazda and Toyota in second with 82, while Buick, GMC, and Honda tied for third at 81.

    Stellantis had a dismal showing as Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram all fell. In fact, all four brands found themselves at the bottom of the list with Chrysler and Ram tied for dead last at 69..."
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    Curious as to how Audi quattro would have done in the second example...
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