There was a time when I went by maintenance schedules, but then the schedules started getting oddly conservative on some stuff (brake fluid) while leaving other things off the list entirely (transmission fluid!). So now I go by what makes sense for my use cases.
The last time I had a Subaru that was as new as this one was when we bought it (our 2010 Forester, which was actually new), I went about 80,000 miles on the plugs and could never tell the difference. The car ran just fine at that time - there was no hint of any issues. Same was true on the 2013 Forester, which I changed at about 90,000 (we bought that one with 55,000 miles on the ticker). So, I didn't figure that plugs would be an issue at all on the Crosstrek last year when I was doing maintenance (Crosstrek was at about 82,000 miles then).
It was on my short list of items, but when I heard that odd sound a couple months ago, I knew that it was definitely time to do it this year!
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Maintenance/repair at $10,000 over 10 years = $1,000 / year. Cheap new vehicle payment at $400 per month over 10 years = $4,800 / year (not confined to one vehicle over the full ten years!).
I can pay for a lot of maintenance and repairs annually and still come out way ahead on that one! For example, this year was a pretty expensive year for me in terms of maintaining my fleet. I had to replace the clutch on the 2013 Forester, put new plugs and ignition coils in the 2018 Crosstrek, replaced the turbo on the 2014 Q7 (among other items), etc.... I spent about $3,600 on all of that, or about $1,200 per car.
As you say, even if you are getting to the point of paying $1000 to $1200 a year to maintain a car, that's just $100 a month, compared to a minimum of $400 a month for a new car payment or lease.
And actually a more realistic number for a car payment these days is the $725 a month me and my wife are paying for her new Subaru. It was a four year loan subsidized by Subaru to 1.9%. I know many people today go five years on a loan, or even six or seven, but I'm glad that we are now down to just three years left to pay off our Outback.
Currently the amount we still owe on our Outback is about $26,000 for a car that had an original list price of $36k, but which we got discounted to $34k. Anyway, with 11,000 miles on it and not really a scratch on it that I've seen, even though we park it outside, my guess is that even as a trade-in it's probably worth $26k? Anyway, I don't think we have negative equity. In another year the loan amount will be down to $17k, probably it'll be worth more than that.
When we bought our Outback Huffman Subaru in Louisville gave us (as they give all buyers) three years of oil changes and tire rotations, and so our first three years of maintenance will be very low.
After that my guess is we'll average about $500 a year for next seven or so years. Of course that'll be quite uneven, with some years just being two oil changes and a tire rotation for $150 or so, but I expect a bill of maybe $2k for the 60,000 mile tune up + transmission fluid change.
Anyway, I'm guessing that after we pay off the car maintenance might average $50 a month or so compared to a new car payment of $700 or more.
We bought our Subaru with the express intent of getting off the negative equity roller coaster. After 10 years and 75,000 miles, the car is worth likely $10-12K in trade value. It's not perfect - a door ding here, a scratch in the paint on the bumper there - but it cleans up nicely and looks darn good from 25' away.
Car payments are getting unbelievably expensive - I thought I saw an article not too long ago that suggested that a decent percentage of payments are now over 4 figures.
@Michaell Sounds like you're still happy with your Outback with the powerful 3.6. What kind of mpg do you get? Do you think you're likely to hang on to it for another five years or so, or are you thinking about trading it in on something newer?
@Michaell Sounds like you're still happy with your Outback with the powerful 3.6. What kind of mpg do you get? Do you think you're likely to hang on to it for another five years or so, or are you thinking about trading it in on something newer?
I started a detailed mileage log when I started to drive the car on a regular basis in 2019 (when my Jetta lease was up, we realized we didn't need two cars, as my wife and daughter commute together).
I've got about 6 years of data at this point, and the numbers are as follows:
Average MPG = 21 (I would say this is 70:30 city:highway driving; the EPA numbers from the sticker are 21 and 27)
My best tank was 24 MPG; the worst, about 18 MPG (living in Colorado with extreme hot and cold temps affects the mileage)
In that time, I'm averaging about 17 days between fill ups (COVID pushed that number pretty high; at the moment I'm filling up every 2 weeks)
As far as whether I'll keep it or not, that is the $64 question. Because my wife doesn't read these forum posts, I can tell you that I've been seriously considering making a change in the next 6 months or so. Not that there's anything wrong with the car, but because I think it's time for something new - and, likely, at my age, to be the last car we get (gasp!). I'd like to pay cash for this one, using my retirement funds along with the trade value.
But, I struggle with what to get and how much to spend. Today, I think the budget is about $40K-ish - $10K in trade and $30K in cash. Lots of nice cars in and around that price point.
I'm pretty sure I'd go hybrid, and I'm a sucker for sedans, so I've been eyeing the Accord, Sonata, or Camry Hybrids. The Camry is available with AWD, but that's not a deal breaker. I'd prefer something other than a black interior, and each model has an alternative color - grey for the Honda, a rich brown for the Sonata, and red for the Camry.
If, however, the wife wants an SUV, then the options change - still a hybrid, but I'm now thinking CR-V, CX-50, or Tucson.
I'd also consider a used 5-series, though my budget would limit me to the 530i or 530e (PHEV).
Anyway, today I have to fill up the Outback, and I'm likely to swing by the car wash and do a degrease and rinse of the engine bay - something I haven't done in the 10+ years of ownership. I'll try to remember to get before and after pictures.
...Not that there's anything wrong with the car, but because I think it's time for something new - and, likely, at my age, to be the last car we get (gasp!)...
Yeah, it's disconcerting to realize that I might already be on my last car. I'm in good health at the moment, knock on wood, and so is my wife, but now that we're both c. 61 years old...
But I'm with you on sedans, and if the TLX is my last car I'm still loving it every time I drive it. I really like my wife's luxurious and practical Outback, but for driving fun my TLX is in a different league bc of the low center of gravity, 4-wheel steering, 8-speed dual-clutch trans with torque convertor, more powerful engine, etc. Plus the ELS sound system in the Acura is better.
You may not want to yet in that more popular thread, but perhaps you might consider bringing your thoughts to Chronic Car Buyers to see what they say?
Since your wife might want an SUV (my wife certainly does, and complains about the low seating position in my TLX a couple of times a year) have you considered making the Outback 3.6 her car, and then getting a sedan for yourself?
The new Camry is impressive, and we considered getting it. But as you know better than I Toyotas like that are in such short supply that it's almost impossible to get any kind of discount, and in fact some dealers add something onto the list price in the form of a "protection package" or similar. Honda dealers are almost as bad.
Still, even the Camry LE has 225 hp and an msrp of $30k. The XLE for c. $36k looks from the pix and specs to be close to Lexus levels of luxury and performance. Good deal even at full list price from my pov.
We found that even if the list prices were similar between a CR-V and an Outback, in the real world the Honda was at least 2k more than list, while the Subaru was 2k under list.
Have you considered the new Forester hybrid, or are you ready to experience a different brand?
My first suggestion would be to try to sell your spouse on an AWD Camry hybrid in the luxury XLE level. Your Colorado climate, and the fact that you're both used to AWD, makes that $1500 AWD option on the Camry a good idea from my pov. If you skip the other options that would mean an msrp of about $37k
My second suggestion, if you can't sell your wife on a fun-to-drive sedan, would be a Subaru Forester Hybrid Premium, which has an msrp of $38k
My first suggestion would be to try to sell your spouse on an AWD Camry hybrid in the luxury XLE level. Your Colorado climate, and the fact that you're both used to AWD, makes that $1500 AWD option on the Camry a good idea from my pov. If you skip the other options that would mean an msrp of about $37k
My second suggestion, if you can't sell your wife on a fun-to-drive sedan, would be a Subaru Forester Hybrid Premium, which has an msrp of $38k
I've already cut/pasted a majority of my screed into the CCBA thread; I'll see what suggestions I get in just a moment.
Yes, I've considered the Forester hybrid, just not sure it would be big enough if we decided an SUV is the way to go. And, I'm not trying to knock your Outback, but I've not heard great things about the infotainment systems in the newer Subarus.
I'm looking at the top trim specs of each model I've listed - for the Camry, that would be the XSE trim. Roughly $40-42K. Accord Touring, Sonata Limited, etc.
My wife drives the Outback maybe 2-3 times a year - she's either a passenger when I drive it or she's riding with her daughter in the Sportage Hybrid when they go to work. Therefore, no real need for a 3rd car that would have to live outside, where we get snow, hail, and strong sunshine (remember, being a mile high in altitude means the sun is stronger here).
Remember, before I took over the Outback as my DD, I had an Elantra GT (hatch) and a Jetta SE on lease before we realized we didn't need that 3rd car.
Hey, I was serious about that Outback.... let me know when you are getting serious, because I suspect my son might be more than interested to snap that puppy up from you.
On the fuel economy front, I think you're doing pretty good with it considering the high altitude, long winters, and heavy city bias.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Comments
The last time I had a Subaru that was as new as this one was when we bought it (our 2010 Forester, which was actually new), I went about 80,000 miles on the plugs and could never tell the difference. The car ran just fine at that time - there was no hint of any issues. Same was true on the 2013 Forester, which I changed at about 90,000 (we bought that one with 55,000 miles on the ticker). So, I didn't figure that plugs would be an issue at all on the Crosstrek last year when I was doing maintenance (Crosstrek was at about 82,000 miles then).
It was on my short list of items, but when I heard that odd sound a couple months ago, I knew that it was definitely time to do it this year!
And actually a more realistic number for a car payment these days is the $725 a month me and my wife are paying for her new Subaru. It was a four year loan subsidized by Subaru to 1.9%. I know many people today go five years on a loan, or even six or seven, but I'm glad that we are now down to just three years left to pay off our Outback.
Currently the amount we still owe on our Outback is about $26,000 for a car that had an original list price of $36k, but which we got discounted to $34k. Anyway, with 11,000 miles on it and not really a scratch on it that I've seen, even though we park it outside, my guess is that even as a trade-in it's probably worth $26k? Anyway, I don't think we have negative equity. In another year the loan amount will be down to $17k, probably it'll be worth more than that.
When we bought our Outback Huffman Subaru in Louisville gave us (as they give all buyers) three years of oil changes and tire rotations, and so our first three years of maintenance will be very low.
After that my guess is we'll average about $500 a year for next seven or so years. Of course that'll be quite uneven, with some years just being two oil changes and a tire rotation for $150 or so, but I expect a bill of maybe $2k for the 60,000 mile tune up + transmission fluid change.
Anyway, I'm guessing that after we pay off the car maintenance might average $50 a month or so compared to a new car payment of $700 or more.
Car payments are getting unbelievably expensive - I thought I saw an article not too long ago that suggested that a decent percentage of payments are now over 4 figures.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I've got about 6 years of data at this point, and the numbers are as follows:
Average MPG = 21 (I would say this is 70:30 city:highway driving; the EPA numbers from the sticker are 21 and 27)
My best tank was 24 MPG; the worst, about 18 MPG (living in Colorado with extreme hot and cold temps affects the mileage)
In that time, I'm averaging about 17 days between fill ups (COVID pushed that number pretty high; at the moment I'm filling up every 2 weeks)
As far as whether I'll keep it or not, that is the $64 question. Because my wife doesn't read these forum posts, I can tell you that I've been seriously considering making a change in the next 6 months or so. Not that there's anything wrong with the car, but because I think it's time for something new - and, likely, at my age, to be the last car we get (gasp!). I'd like to pay cash for this one, using my retirement funds along with the trade value.
But, I struggle with what to get and how much to spend. Today, I think the budget is about $40K-ish - $10K in trade and $30K in cash. Lots of nice cars in and around that price point.
I'm pretty sure I'd go hybrid, and I'm a sucker for sedans, so I've been eyeing the Accord, Sonata, or Camry Hybrids. The Camry is available with AWD, but that's not a deal breaker. I'd prefer something other than a black interior, and each model has an alternative color - grey for the Honda, a rich brown for the Sonata, and red for the Camry.
If, however, the wife wants an SUV, then the options change - still a hybrid, but I'm now thinking CR-V, CX-50, or Tucson.
I'd also consider a used 5-series, though my budget would limit me to the 530i or 530e (PHEV).
Anyway, today I have to fill up the Outback, and I'm likely to swing by the car wash and do a degrease and rinse of the engine bay - something I haven't done in the 10+ years of ownership. I'll try to remember to get before and after pictures.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
But I'm with you on sedans, and if the TLX is my last car I'm still loving it every time I drive it. I really like my wife's luxurious and practical Outback, but for driving fun my TLX is in a different league bc of the low center of gravity, 4-wheel steering, 8-speed dual-clutch trans with torque convertor, more powerful engine, etc. Plus the ELS sound system in the Acura is better.
You may not want to yet in that more popular thread, but perhaps you might consider bringing your thoughts to Chronic Car Buyers to see what they say?
Since your wife might want an SUV (my wife certainly does, and complains about the low seating position in my TLX a couple of times a year) have you considered making the Outback 3.6 her car, and then getting a sedan for yourself?
The new Camry is impressive, and we considered getting it. But as you know better than I Toyotas like that are in such short supply that it's almost impossible to get any kind of discount, and in fact some dealers add something onto the list price in the form of a "protection package" or similar. Honda dealers are almost as bad.
Still, even the Camry LE has 225 hp and an msrp of $30k. The XLE for c. $36k looks from the pix and specs to be close to Lexus levels of luxury and performance. Good deal even at full list price from my pov.
We found that even if the list prices were similar between a CR-V and an Outback, in the real world the Honda was at least 2k more than list, while the Subaru was 2k under list.
Have you considered the new Forester hybrid, or are you ready to experience a different brand?
My second suggestion, if you can't sell your wife on a fun-to-drive sedan, would be a Subaru Forester Hybrid Premium, which has an msrp of $38k
Yes, I've considered the Forester hybrid, just not sure it would be big enough if we decided an SUV is the way to go. And, I'm not trying to knock your Outback, but I've not heard great things about the infotainment systems in the newer Subarus.
I'm looking at the top trim specs of each model I've listed - for the Camry, that would be the XSE trim. Roughly $40-42K. Accord Touring, Sonata Limited, etc.
My wife drives the Outback maybe 2-3 times a year - she's either a passenger when I drive it or she's riding with her daughter in the Sportage Hybrid when they go to work. Therefore, no real need for a 3rd car that would have to live outside, where we get snow, hail, and strong sunshine (remember, being a mile high in altitude means the sun is stronger here).
Remember, before I took over the Outback as my DD, I had an Elantra GT (hatch) and a Jetta SE on lease before we realized we didn't need that 3rd car.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
On the fuel economy front, I think you're doing pretty good with it considering the high altitude, long winters, and heavy city bias.
I forgot the before pic
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige