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Comments
I wonder if all Subaru salespersons are taught to demo the vehicle that way, or just something Metro thought up? I told them they should keep just one vehicle aside to do that with, and keep a running count of the demos. If they told me that that vehicle had done that 20 or 30 times I would have been more impressed, but I wasn't about to buy a new vehicle with more than the 8 miles they come from the "port" with. Maybe they just get a running start to get them off of the ship!
Frank
Bob
I've found the real-world verisons of the tests prove the Forester is just as surefooted as it appeared! Welcome to the club.
Frank
My fave vanity plate belongs to Mike Moran (aka BugBomb) here in MD:
UBSLIPN- You Be Slippin'
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1400062&Auth=false
The WRX album is for anyone who didn't get to go. I got as many detailed close-ups as I could.
The Subaru Crew album is great. Go through the whole thing and it'll crack you up, I guarantee it!
I'll be back to chat later.
-juice
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
I must say that the WRX wagon looks almost sedate without the fender flares. It may be the true sleeper, the one to get when you want to want to fly under the radar of the constabulari. I thought the rear track was the same on both sedan and wagon, and it was only the front track that is wider on the sedan. But the UK website shows both being wider on the 'saloon', 25mm wider in front and 30mm wider in the rear. That's a significant amount, handling-wise. And the fender flares make a significant difference looks-wise; the sedan is noticeably more racer-ish. Then again the sedan at the show had the 17" wheels and the spoiler. I wonder what the wagon looks like with 17" wheels...
Thanks again for the great pictures. Slightly off-topic: I meant to ask what kind of camera you used, I'm looking into getting a digital camera.
Cheers,
-wdb
Stephen
Stephen
Gus took me out for my second test drive. He encouraged me to "push" it - and I did. Remember though, it was these guys who had some trouble back in late summer when one of their newest salespeople on a test drive with 2 potential customers wrapped a Forester around a tree!
Good luck with both subies...
-Tony
..Mike
..Mike
Frank: TWO Subarus? BOTH Foresters?! Oh, man, you are very, very welcome here!
Karen: thanks for putting that photo up on the Subaru Crew main page. Check it out folks!
WDB: Sony Mavica FD71 (now FD73). Pro: most convenient in the world, uses floppies, never run out of film, fully automated. Con: only 640x480, big and heavy, a bit expensive. There are other models too, but the price goes up.
Stephen: you are the MAN! Ordered already, eh? That's gotta be the first here to commit.
I was very impressed with it in person. The sedan is notably more roomy than the current RS, but the wagon has even more room. The cargo space is good, though the sleek fastback D-pillar eats into some of it. Still, not bad.
I love the WRX seats - SoA should either spread them to other models or sell them separately. Awesome! Excellent side support, comfortable, can I have them?
Interior is improved a lot, too. That's good because it means the Forester will get similar improvements. Sincerely, if the Forester's rear seat grows by as much, Subaru is in good shape. That's really the only significant draw back in the Forester.
And by the way, yours truly insisted on riding in the back seat of Bob's Forester. It was fine, since the person in front of me had the seat forward slightly. But the heated seats in front rock!
-juice
Cheers Pat.
Stephen
..Mike
PS - GT-B, GT-B!
..Mike
I can't say enough about it. The brake-cooling ducts are spiffy. The big fog lights I like also remain. The hood is indeed lighter than mine, but WDB brought up an interesting point - it may exist to provide better heat dissipation. Either way, very cool.
I like the seat-height ratchet mechanism, which reminds me of VW's. In fact, I like everything about the seats. The new dash looks good, and the pedals are trick. They didn't seem slippery, probably because of the rubber bumps they have. Good sized dead pedal, and pedals positioned for heel-and-toeing (if your shoes aren't too big).
The sedan's spoiler is only OK, I like the current ones better. It's got too many surfaces for my tastes, but at least from the driver's seats it doesn't hurt visibility too much, because you can see underneath it.
The wagon's spoiler I like, period. Should keep the window somewhat dry and cleaner. Heck, I'll even take a 2nd one!
The back seat arm rest is a nice touch. Especially since you're more likely to have people back there. The trunk pass through is big enough for a pair of skis, but not a snow board. That stuff can go on the wagon's roof rack anyway.
The steering wheel is nice. They plastered the Momo logo on it and mention it every chance they get. The VDC also has a Momo wheel but no labels, though again they mentioned it every chance they got (real mahogany too!).
The shifter didn't have a knob, to prevent theft I guess, but felt much the same as the current one. That means give Cusco a call for their urethane bushings, and consider a shorter throw lever as well.
I liked both colors there, Silver and Sedona Red. Ironically, I'd swap them and show a wild red sedan and a sleeper silver wagon (my pick among the two).
Twin exhaust tips look so nice, it's a shame how many people will slap on a cat-back and lose those. And they will, because it was very, very quiet. I imagine an exhaust alone would unleash at least 5-6 horsepower, and some growl to go with it. Looks like the UR Pulley will fit, so you could get maybe 10 horses quick and cheap.
Have I mentioned I was imprezzed? ;-)
-juice
Stephen
The BBS wheels are gorgeous. Like someone here said, almost worth the price.
A shift lever isn't going to create tranny problems, at least not a well engineered one. Look to SPT, Cobb, or Kartboy for proven ones.
I think their angle on SPT will slowly improve. TRD has a lot more resources (and deep pockets for lawsuits). Once they realize the demand is there, they'll be better off offering their own aftermarket parts instead of watching others rake in the bucks. Customers will install them anyway, and SoA would actually have less control (not more) of how the final products turn out.
Yes, Patti, feel free to share my feelings with the products planning folks. :-)
-juice
As for a digital camera, I just recently got a 2.1 megapixel Canon Digital Elph Powershot S100. It's the same size as the APS Elph (read tiny!) and extremely convenient. I take it almost everywhere with me now. With a 48MB card to supplement the stardard 8MB card, I can take about 350 pictures in 640X480 mode. The pictures can be viewed on a TV set via the supplied cable.
Here are a couple of pictures that I snapped of a '01 S600 V12 (with the Sport Pkg) waiting delivery last week while I was at the dealership. Stephen and Ross, it was rainy outside as usual - about 9am:
The ones with USB cords are even less convenient - you need to cart the cable around, or buy more than one cable, and lend the install CD to them.
I like the simplicity of the floppy disc (everyone has it, and no software, adaptors, or cables are required), though perhaps one with the Sony LS120 or a Zip disk could be even better.
Then again, for high-res you may not have a choice.
-juice
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
Frank
Omar commented on how great you all were, too. Thanks again. - Note: My friends are really having fun with the pictures. I'm kinda known to be very camera shy - so - they were surprised I did it. With friends like you folks, how could I say no??
Thanks again and keep the commentary coming!
Patti
You guys were all quite photogenic! It's nice to be able to match a face to a name.
Any chance you'll be out at any shows in the San Fran Bay Area?
Ken
2.1 Megapixels, which looks great without munching the hard drive space like a 3.3 would.
-mike
I just downloaded a 5MB TIFF (the uncompressed mode at 2.1mp) in just over 15 seconds.
Mind you, I don't use the TIFF mode much. Typically, I use the 'normal' mode which creates files about 800kb in size at 2.1mp.
-Brian
I want a turbo Legacy Wagon, dammit! Not some heavy, tongue-twisting 3.0 H-6. Put the 2.0 turbo in the Legacy GT, and leave the H-6 for the Outback and maybe a Limited model (like the LSi. I suppose I'll settle for an WRX, but I like the size of the legacy better.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
2) To Subaru owners: A FLURRY
Got to love 6" of heavy wet snow in the N.E.
Question: "Did I feel a tire slip?"
Answer: Nah
Anyhow, juice, great pics from the show. My digital camera choice: Canon G1, 3.3 MP and 1G IBM MicroDrive support.
-Tony
Ross
Nice photos, Juice! I'm really envious. You guys have fun and I'm -- you won't believe -- still being Foresterless (>2 mo already)! That dopey body shop (never mind that it came recommended by the Subie dealer) totally screwed up my poor Forester. When I came to pick up what they claimed is a top-notch job, I discovered huge gaps where tailgate lights meet body-mounted lights (for 2001 models only)... The shop tried to pull the fast one on me, saying that all Forester come this way, and even offered me a ride to the Subaru dealer... only to be embarrassed to see long row of new Foresters, all with tightly fit tailgates. Grrr...
Enough grumbling. Glad to hear you guys had fun at Philly. Pix look great.
--Kate
P.S. Never ever in your life bring your car to the body shop named B&S Hacienda at Livermore, CA. Trust me. I'll post pix of the crookedly mounted tailgate some time later.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
Ross
We got clobbered here, 12" to 15" of snow depending on who you talk to. The first 6" was really heavy plus the ground was warm, so down there underneath it all is a layer of hardpack and ice. I went out at 6pm and the local roads still had 6" and more of rutted, heavy snow on them in most places. I was using the return of a videotape as an excuse to go out and have some fun in the Subie - you know, slither around a bit, bop through the occasional snowbank, practice the old handbrake turn. But the roads were *bad* and it was getting foggy and there were cars sticking out of every driveway because they couldn't make it in any further. It wasn't really fun, either, because the heavy snow and the well-worn RE 92's made for less-than great traction. I didn't get stuck, but neither did I feel real confident that I would continue to stay non-stuck if I stayed out there. So I came back home and threw another log on the fire. A good night for a good book, and a GREAT day to work from home. Also this is probably the final straw that will cause me to go out and get winter wheels and tires; the wider GT tires in all-season form just don't do the car justice in this stuff. End-of-season deals, here I come!
Cheers,
-wdb
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
Thought this might be of interest. Skoda's Octavia is a very well sorted car, effectively built off the Golf chassis by Skoda (a VW/Audi subsidiary). The addition of 4wd and the route taken to make it work is technically interesting.
Historically, Skoda made fabulously well engineered and very interesting cars but through the communist era produced some real stinkers with exceptionally dodgy build. When I went to England in 1990, comedians made Skoda jokes like they made Trabant jokes. The only difference was that Skodas don't die as quickly as Trabies.
After VW took over, build quality leapt and then VW started injecting seriously workmanlike designs into the business.
The Octavia is a peach, particularly in wagon form. I fancied one but my wife refused to be caught up in Skoda ownership as she remembered the jokes. In England, where Subarus are considered expensive, the Octavia 4wd would be serious competition against the Liberty/Legacy, particularly as it is about 15% cheaper.
I suspect the chances of the Octavia making it to the States is slim, but if you travel to Europe, have a look.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et? ac=004299044265289&rtmo=0xXRKGbq&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/et/01/2/6/emfskod06.html
Unfortunately the limitations of the software mean that this link has to be split in two as it exceeds 100 characters in length. Copy it into your browser in its entirety and then remove the inserted spaces.
Cheers
Graham
Skoda
Equally at home on mountain or motorway, Skoda new 4x4 estate could be the only car you'll ever need. It's great value, too, as Peter Dron reports
AFTER a few miles in this new Skoda Estate with its Haldex coupling four-wheel-drive system, a word flashed in my head like a light bulb: "vets". Not the Chelsea Pensioner/ Vietnam type, but those who don armpit-length rubber gloves and do unspeakable things to farm animals.
Skoda, unsurprisingly, sees this profession as part of its targeted clientele. In the press pack, under "Anticipated Customer Profile", we find the following shorthand summary: "Reasons for choice include: Location - rural, hilly, mountainous terrain. Leisure activities that require transporting equipment, ie biking, fishing, camping, water sports, riding. Farmers, vets and doctors in rural areas. Second car - school run - safe drive." As for that last category, this car is a far more sensible choice than those aggressive, gas-guzzling, bull-barred 4x4s with which many young mothers terrorise their communities.
At £16,200, the well-equipped Octavia Estate should easily achieve Skoda UK's sales target of 900 units, "geographically biased towards Scotland, northern England and Wales". Indeed, demand might stand out against the overall downward trend of the market. For one thing, there are few rivals at the price. You cannot get a Golf 4-motion (that shares essentially the same platform and transmission) with this 1.8-litre, 20-valve, four-cylinder turbo engine; the Skoda's closest rival, Subaru's Legacy Estate (Britain's best-selling 4wd wagon), costs substantially more if you want to match the 150bhp delivered by the Czech machine. This gives the Octavia respectable performance (0-60mph in about 9sec and a top speed of more than 130mph), allied to reasonable economy. Mid-range torque is strong, but to get the best out of the engine you need to make full use of the five-speed gearbox. This does not have the slickest change in the business, but it's light and positive.
Via mechanical, hydraulic and electronic interaction, the Haldex coupling, installed between the propshaft and the rear differential, automatically adjusts torque between the front and rear axles, varying from full front-drive to 50/50 according to conditions. Among several advantages of this Swedish system is that ride height is lower than in conventional four-wheel-drive vehicles.
At first, the Octavia did not appeal to me particularly, as I am content to leave farm animals to the experts. Setting off from Nice airport, I felt that the handling was good enough, if rather roly-poly, while brake pedal response seemed a shade soft. But once we were on the switchback roads of the Haut Var, I began to like this Octavia very much.
If you are expecting a mildly detuned version of Skoda's impressive World Rally Championship car, you will be disappointed, but the Octavia 4x4 is more than merely competent.
It might roll a bit in curves, but not excessively, and above all it settles well through
S-bends. At least on the winter tyres with which my test car was shod, the more the going got tough - with damp surfaces and occasional patches of snow or ice - the more impressively the chassis performed. Volkswagen claims that the automatic torque distribution supplied by the Haldex coupling "offers the advantages of permanently available four-wheel drive with the driving characteristics of front-wheel drive". I'd say they're selling themselves short: it's actually better than that.
With ESP (Electronic Stability Programme) engaged, the car feels stable and responsive. One is not aware of the torque shift as the Haldex sends more lb ft to the back axle, except in that understeer is reduced. With ESP switched off, the car simply wants to plough straight on, so best let it do its work. It acts subtly in almost all circumstances, although occasionally one is strongly aware of having asked for full throttle and been given a quarter.
While depressing the brake pedal feels rather like treading on a small, squishy vertebrate, the pads stand up well to challenging, downhill Alpine roads: I made them whiff, but they did not fade. The anti-lock works with discreet efficiency.
Inside, you do not get quite the limousine quality now routinely available in Volkswagens. This is more the sort of interior VW used to do: well-constructed, if a shade plain. The seats feel very hard, as if intended to last forever under the trousers of substantial German businessmen who carry their own padding. Nevertheless, lateral location is not bad and, in most other respects, with a good range of seat adjustment and a telescopic steering column, the driving position is exemplary.
The only real letdowns are the second-rate radio (though you do get a cassette player and six-CD multi-changer) and the controls for the air-conditioning/heating, both of which look like something out of an American DIY electrical catalogue. The air-con works acceptably, but the buttons are fiddly. They are placed at full stretch and their operation is impeded by the gear lever.
All-round visibility is generally good, although the windscreen pillars, as in most modern cars, are unnecessarily thick and the bonnet drops steeply out of sight. The curved rear pillar gives a more stylish appearance than the boxy Golf Variant, without impairing the rearward view.
The Octavia might lack the finer points of build quality that have so far allowed Volkswagen to charge a premium, but all the essentials are there. If you are seeking a no-frills estate (with comfortable seating for four or five and voluminous luggage capacity) that will get you almost anywhere in safety and comfort, no matter what the conditions, there is no better option for the money than this. The Octavia 4x4 Estate is Skoda's most technologically advanced model to date. It is a bold step forward, but seems certain to pay off: you do not have to be a rural vet to appreciate its numerous qualities.
There's a bit of a fashion at present for four-wheel drive versions of prestigious estates and it's ironic that of them all, it's the Skoda that looks (and feels) as though it could actually do the job rather than just pose around town.
But one small gripe: when will an estate car manufacturer have the guts to provide a luggage area entirely lined in hard-wearing plastics? It is not only vets who would appreciate that.
Skoda Octavia 4x4 estate
Price/availability: £16,200. On sale now.
Engine/transmission: 1,781cc, in-line four-cylinder, 20-valve turbocharged petrol; 150bhp at 5,700rpm, 155lb ft of torque from 1,750-4,600rpm. Four-wheel drive via five-speed manual gearbox and Haldex coupling.
Performance: top speed 131mph, 0-62mph in 9.3sec, EC Urban fuel consumption 23.3mpg.
Worth considering: Subaru Legacy 2.5i GX Estate, from £19,250.
Bob
At the Phiily show, paisan was questioning the rep. (Omar) about Sti parts not being covered under warranty, and that the dealers can't install them. He hadn't heard anything about it. I've also seen that info pop up in other forums as well.
Patti - have you heard anything about it?
Dennis
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
Perhaps, to avoid this becoming too large and/or cumbersome, you could create a new "Subaru linked Topics" folder, and put all these linked forums in there??? That way all Subaru forums could be easily accessed via the Subaru Crew forum, just by looking in the "Linked Forums" folder.
Along that same line of thought, is it possible (with this new software) to automatically link any new discussion forum with the word "Subaru" or "Forester, etc." in the title to such a linked folder?
Also... I'm assuming(?) this means that any post we add here will also show up in the other forum too?
Bob
My salesguy showed my the internal memo from SOA to dealers regarding the STI parts. It would be interesting to hear Pat's take on this.
Stephen