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2009 BMW 3-Series

1356

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    carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,500
    Could we take this to the Cow vs. synthetic seats board? (LOL)
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Reminds me of that Gary Larson cartoon with the cows peering into the interior of a fancy car with a shocked look on their faces----LOL!

    Okay I can let go of this subject. :D
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    tara8tara8 Member Posts: 1
    I have a lease offer on 2009 BMW 328 i convertible as follows. I would appreciate your opinion as to what you think of this offer.
    328i conv with metallic paint, leatherette, automatic transmissio, cold weather pkg, comfort access, BMW assist, ipod/usb adopter.

    For 660/month 2250 due at signing + dmv fees.

    First month's payment of 660 for 36 months for 12k/yr
    .20 for additional mileage
    61% residual at the end of the lease
    700 security deposit
    825 bank fee (which he 's now calling cap reduction ( 761.24 + tax 63.75) since he forgot to charge tax on the bank fee). I'm not sure if this makes a difference?

    dealer app fee 45
    State inspection 10
    Tire tax 10
    500 deposit which will count towards the 2250 ie. the final first months payment will be $1750.

    disposition fee will be 350

    Upon asking I was told that the selling price is 46,276.
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    teebone1958teebone1958 Member Posts: 7
    Does anyone know if the 2009 328ci SULEV model still comes with the fuel pump sealed inside the gas tank? Or has BMW moved the fuel pump out of the tank? I have a 2006 328ci SULEV approaching end of lease and the the fuel pump is non serviceable. To replace it, the entire fuel tank assembly costs $7995. I plan to turn it in and get a 2009 as long as it does not have the same bad design.
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I don't know of a single manufacturer in the world that produces cars with the fuel pump located outside of the fuel tank. Said another way, chances are extremely high (like > 99%) that any car you look at next will feature an in-tank fuel pump.

    Just curious, why do you want to service the fuel pump? :confuse:

    Best regards,
    Shipo
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    teebone1958teebone1958 Member Posts: 7
    The problem is that it is sealed in the fuel tank. To replace it, you need to replace the entire fuel tank which costs $7995. I have yet to have a vehicle where I did not have to change the fuel pump at some time. I do not want to take this car off lease because if the fuel pump goes down the road, I might not be worth replacing.

    Also, BMW tests ethanol level of the fuel if the car is under warranty. If the level is above 10%, they will void warranty unless you pay for replavcing the tank, and cleaning the injectors. This has happened to many (just Google it), they misread my Ethanol level and threatened me with this last week. Once I called the Department of Agriculture, they backed off and told me the fuel retested ok.
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I don't know what you've been doing with your cars, but the last car I had any fuel pump problems with was my 1970 Challenger, and that was an old-fashioned mechanical/diaphragm type of pump. Since then I've driven over a million miles in fuel injected cars (all of which had in-tank fuel pumps), and not one of them has ever had an issue.

    Said another way, I think you're A) worrying needlessly, and B) going to have a difficult time finding a car that doesn't have an integral fuel tank/fuel pump.

    As for your claimed ethanol issues, while I'm not saying that it isn't happening, I will say that A) I've never heard of it, and B) your dealership sounds like they may be a bunch of crooks.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    The seconary pump-the one outside the tank-failed on my E28 535is at @120,000 miles. A cheap and easy fix, hoever. Other than that, no fuel pump failures on any of my FI cars going back to 1983. That said, I have heard that the fuel pumps on the N54s can be problematic. I think his dealership is not only crooked, but they are trying to scare him into a new car. Kind of like the thieves who charge over $150 for an oil service to encourage owners to extend their service contract or flip the car for a new one.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    teebone1958teebone1958 Member Posts: 7
    The key point is that the SULEV engines have the fuel pump\filter SEALED in the gas tank. I have no problem with the pump being in the tank, the problem I have is that it is non serviceable w\o replacing the entire tank. The SULEV engines are shipped and sold in NY, CA, VT, MA, and ME. This engine setup includes a fuel pump and filter which are sealed into the gas tank which makes them unserviceable without the replacement of the $7995 dollar gas tank. I beleive that this is a horrible design which becomes the problem of the consumer. If you beleive this is a good design, I will have to respectfully disagree.

    In essence, I do not want to own a car which has a single mechanical point of failure which can cause a 8000 dollar repair (w\o labor).

    As otherwise, I like the car (and the BMW make), I want to make sure the next car I buy does not have such a bad design (to be clear, I am ok with the pump\filter in the tank as long as it can be replaced if it goes (as they do sometimes especially with the introduction of ethanol in the fuel). Therefore I have two questions:

    1. Does anyone know if the 2008 or 2009 SULEV engines have a non serviceable fuel pump\filter?
    2. Does a dealership in a SULEV state have to sell the SULEV engine only (or can they sell a non SULEV engine?

    From what I understand, the non SULEV engine does not have the pump\filter SEALED into the gas tank. In other words it is replaceable. Also, I do not beleive in 'lifetime' filters.
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    While pumps and filters may not be "lifetime", I just traded-in a car last night with 170,000 miles on the factory pump and filter, and there was absolutely no hint of an issue with them. One of our other cars has 115,000 miles on its factory pump and filter, and it too works as well as it did the day we drove it off the showroom floor.

    A couple of other things that don't feel right about your posts:

    1) I've combed through all of my BMW ordering information and can find no evidence to support your claim that SULEV cars are only sold in CARB states. Per my information, every BMW sold in the U.S. carries the same SULEV rating.

    2) The $8,000 number you keep posting sounds more than a bit exaggerated for a fuel pump replacement, even if it does require the entire tank. I'm thinking that whom ever quoted you that number is expecting to make lots of money off of you.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
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    teebone1958teebone1958 Member Posts: 7
    In reponse to your comment labeled #1, I am sorry, but your research has lead you to the wrong conclusion.

    Basically, in CARB-following states, a certain percentage of the models offered for sale by a manufacturer must comply with certain emissions levels (referred to as LEV, ULEV or SULEV). BMW has chosen to make some of their lower-end models (128s and 328s) in SULEV-variants for sale in these states. The SULEV-variants have a slightly different engine with a reportedly minor performance reduction to comply with the required standards. This allows the car maker to continue to produce its higher-performance models (e.g. 335i, M3, et al.) free of CARB compliance concerns.

    If you dig deeper, you can find the 328 reviews listed for both SULEV and non SULEV models. Here is an example link (note both type of models listed):

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/modelintro/bmw_3-series_2009

    In response to #2, the price is for the entire gas tank assembly including all the pumps, filters, and electronics in contains. This has been verified through a second dealership.

    Once again, the problem is the design of the SEALED tank which prohibits the replacement of the contained mechanical part (fuel pump) and filter.

    Thanks anyway....
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    In response to #2, the price is for the entire gas tank assembly including all the pumps, filters, and electronics in contains. This has been verified through a second dealership.

    Once again, the problem is the design of the SEALED tank which prohibits the replacement of the contained mechanical part (fuel pump) and filter.


    I agree with Shipo, someone's trying to scare you into a new car. Have them pull up the ETK and show you the part number and MSRP.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    teebone1958teebone1958 Member Posts: 7
    Biginning with 2003, 325i Sedan, Coupe, Sport Wagon
    Automatic for sale in California, Mass, New York,
    and Vermont are fitted with an updated motor
    identified as PZEV (Partial Zero Evaporative Emissions)
    M56 B25 which is a further development
    of the M54 2.5 liter motor with these changes:

    - Duel down-stream catalytic converters with high cell
    density technology

    - Wide-band Oxygen sensors mounted upstream of the catalysts

    - High-pressure , four outlet fuel injectors

    - Revised VANOS system with a fixed position for reduced
    emissions at start-up

    - Secondary Air Injection system with mass air flow sensor

    - Carbon filter added to the air intake to reduce hydrocarbon
    emissions

    - Stainless steel fuel injectors and fuel rail, tank vent valve,
    and evaporative canister

    - Stainless steel fuel tank with intergrated fuel pump,
    fuel filter, and fuel pressure regulator - YES -
    due to the nature of the sealed stainless steel fuel
    tank with it's intergrated pump, filter, pressure regulator,
    a component failure requires replacement of the fuel tank as a complete unit. It is not serviceable !
    :sick:

    - Aluminum cylinder head cover with intergrated ventilation
    valve

    - The external heat exchange surfaces of the radiator
    are coated with a catalyst to reduce ozone in the air
    drawn through the radiator (see sticker and funny
    looking parts when you open the hood)

    - Pistons with 3mm fire lands

    Based upon the item listed above (integrated gas tank), I would not buy this car on principal alone. I do not think it takes an automotive engineer to figure out that this is a very bad design (and idea), especially since these forums are filled with posts regarding fuel pump issues.

    Thanks Again.
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    xeyexeye Member Posts: 168
    With all due respect, your posts look like they've come from a dictionary, or some mythical 'secret' BMW 'gouge the customer' manual. You seem determined to be screwed, so go for it and enjoy it. The responders who've replied know their stuff, and my suggestion is to find several other reputable mechanics and check out the real situation.
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    teebone1958teebone1958 Member Posts: 7
    Ok. Here are the facts about the prices:

    From Tischer
    For M56 (this is the SULEV engine)
    *******>********>
    Item Number MSRP Core Price Price
    16116763569 $7,692.49 $0.00 $6,153.99

    FUEL TANK
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________________

    for M54 (this is the non SULEV engine)

    *******>********>
    16116766940 $415.95 $0.00 $332.76
    Fuel system - Fuel supply - Fuel tank
    Fuel tank, 325i, ci, 330i, ci 2001 - 2003, 330xi 2002-2004 w/sulev

    For the M54 engine, the fuel filter is an easy 20 min DIY as it's under the car, underneath the driver's seat. The M56 is configured as one piece (as I have been stating).

    Believe what you want, but I will go with the facts. You might want to do some due diligence and look things up next time before you post....

    I am interested in facts not opinions, so I obviously made a mistake coming to this site.

    Have a good day!
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If they put the fuel pump in the tank, surely someone can take it out. Transmissions are commonly sealed and non-serviceable these days, and yet are rebuilt all the time. BMW driveshafts are not serviceable....but they are!

    This is why independent repair shops have the best technicians! They figure out how to fix things.
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    fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I found this at "RealOEM.com" (re-spaced to fit here):

    Description Supplement Qty Part Number Price
    FUEL TANK, METAL WITH FILLER PIPE 1 16116763569 $2,985.30

    Here's the link...

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AZ33&mospid=47721&btnr=16_0533&hg=- 16&fg=05

    "RealOEM.com" does list the M54 and M56 engines as being available in the E46. And there is definitely a difference between the M54 plastic tank with outboard pump and the metal M56 tank with integral pump. The questions I would ask are - 1. Why does a $3000 "plug and play" part cost $4000 to install? I know plenty of mechanics that could replace the tank in one day (at about $80/hr, that's maybe $700 labor). 2. Is it possible to fit the M54 fuel tank and related accessories/plumbing to an M56 car?

    Finally, according to "RealOEM.com," the E90 and E92 328i are offered with 2 engines - the N52 (ULEV) and N51 (SULEV). According to the website though, both of these engines have plastic fuel tanks with serviceable fuel pumps (part #16147194207 for the N51). The 335i only has the N54.

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=VC53&mospid=49546&btnr=16_0688&hg=- 16&fg=15

    Bottom line? It looks like it's not an issue with the current line of BMW's - just the early SULEV cars from the early 2000's. I found lots of discussion on the web - just google some combination of the words N51 SULEV BMW engine and see what comes up.
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    You nailed it!

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    teebone1958teebone1958 Member Posts: 7
    Thanks fedlawman, :)

    This is great information, I will take your suggestion and google the combination of words you suggest.

    I also found (last night) that the parts (fuel pump and plastic tanks) where available for the N51 SULEV engine, which would indicate that the design of the newer SULEV variant of the engine has been improved to allow for easier maintenance of moving parts (although some parts are a little more expensive, they are now within reason).

    Otherwise, once the lease on my 2006 325 Coupe is up in April, I want to turn it in and get either the 328 (which is SULEV here in NY) or the 335 coupe. I test drove the 328 Coupe (230 HP) and it has much more power than my current 325 coupe (186 HP).

    I am going to test drive the 335 Coupe soon. Once I do, I do not know if I will be able to turn back though. An extra plus on the 335 coupe is that there are no SULEV issues to consider as there is only one engine (N54) as you pointed out.

    In general, I like the lease option as it gives me a 3 year test drive.

    Thanks Again, this is the information I was looking for.... :)
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    kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 238,893
    If you are happy with the 328, then don't drive the 335... That will be one very expensive test drive...

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    jmarounjmaroun Member Posts: 151
    Well, it seems my 08 335i (manual with sports package) may have also fallen victim to HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) failure. I took the car in yesterday because for the past two-three days, ignition times have been intermittently taking upward of 5 to 7 seconds. Classic symtoms of the well known, wide spreed, fuel pump failure that has plagued the 335i since it's intitial debut 2 years ago! I thought my late production (June 2008 build date) model would have a propper fix but I guess not. I thought wrong. This leads me to believe that either BMW has no propper fix, or that they are intentionally selling cars with fuel pumps that have a high propability of failure. I don't have access to the statistics but judging by reports on edmunds, m3post, topix and many other smaller websites (just google 335i fuel pump), I'd bet the chances are around 50-50 for a 335i to have this issue. I haven't heard of any 09s failing, but I have no reason to assume the 09s have been propperly fixed.
    I haven't heard back from the dealer yet, but judging by the many posts I've read, I'd bet not only is the fuel pump bad..but they will try to patch it up with software rather than replace the pump. A software fix, according to forum reports, will result in higher throttle pressure during ignition as well as higher rpm for lower gears.
    Such a fix, according to forum reports, not only alters normal throttle characteristics and introduces turbo lag, but also has a good chance of being temporary at best. Reports of fuel pumps failing even after a software fix are all over the net. I'd be happy if they just replaced the pump with a propperly designed one.

    For now, I must live with the 328 auto that they loaned me. I wouldn't mind this car if it were smoke free (obviously..someone has smoked heavily in this car before .. it's even worse when the AC is turned on)..and if it didn't have a hard limiter (5k rpm) which not onlyl cuts engine power @ 5krmp, but actually feels as though it pulses the brakes! This almost caused an accident the first time it happened since I was unaware that such a mechanism was in place!!

    Please note:
    I'm actually very pleased with BMW support and service. They took the car in immediately and were very nice. I do appreciate the loaner..even if it is a lesser car. Such service more than compensates for the inconvience which is some-what expected for high performance machines. I just hope they do the right thing and replace the fuel pump, if it is indeed faulty, with a good one.

    Mainly at this point,.. I already miss my 335i..and want her back soon.

    I will keep the world community posted on this.. I hope it turns out well.

    Joseph
    San Diego
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    ...and if it didn't have a hard limiter (5k rpm) which not onlyl cuts engine power 5krmp, but actually pulses the breaks. This almost caused an accident the first time it happened since I was unaware that such a mechanism was in place!!

    Call me a skeptic, but sorry, I absolutely don't believe that there is a device on your loaner car that will press the brake pedal for you if you exceed 5,000 RPMs in any gear.
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    There does not seem to be a lot of information relating to this issue. You may be one of the unlucky ones. I hope your new 09 S4 fairs better.
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    We told you not to buy another BMW...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Well, I'm sure we all hope it turns out well. Sounds like you've already decided that it won't, though...
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    jmarounjmaroun Member Posts: 151
    Pat,

    That makes no sense. I know what has happened, to many others whom have posted their experiences. Just read the posts yourself and try to be a fair moderator.

    Looks like my car will need another day of further analysis..(3 days)..before a fix will be implemented.

    Joseph
    San Diego
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    patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I was just responding to the second paragraph of your post where you explain that what you think they will do will not fix the problem, and in fact, will introduce another issue. Not sure what doesn't make sense about that. :)
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    jmarounjmaroun Member Posts: 151
    Anyway, I got my 335i back today with a new fuel pump :) It drives great and starts up quickly now.

    Just a few side notes..There is a HUGE difference between the 335i and the 328s they loaned me! And I noticed a marked difference between the 328 and the 330i I leased for three years...The 330i definately has a tad more umff than the 328.
    Anyone considering a 328 should save up a few grand for the 335i.
    It's well worth it. I got mine for $40k!

    Also, having just compared back to back, I'm assured that leatheretes are much better than leather seating. Leatherette holds you in better and more securely. (probably higher coeficient of friction) This experience also gave me a chance to compare steptronic to manual back to back... there is simply no comparison. Get the manual..for the more sporty, cleaner, and untarnished driving experience. Not to mention, YES (for those in doubt).. manual IS more fun. It's true.

    So, it turned out great, just as I've hoped. BMW did the right thing. They fixed my car promptly and correctly. Thanks BMW! :)

    Joseph
    San Diego
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    fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    If you can tell the difference between 255 and 230 HP in a 3500 lb car, you must have a really sensitive rear end. Maybe those "high coefficient of friction" seats have something to do with this?

    For the "more sporty, cleaner, and untarnished driving experience," get the 1-series. ;)
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    patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Glad to hear you are pleased with the service!
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    For the "more sporty, cleaner, and untarnished driving experience," get the 1-series.

    You know, I enjoy driving my 2002 and ti so much that I'm thinking of replacing my Mazdaspeed with another vintage Bimmer. I love the visceral driving experience- free from the isolation and intrusive safety nannies found on the newest Bimmers.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    You might like the idea of a nanny-free experience, but the nannies could save your bacon. I agree with FED the 135 is a hoot. (I recently attended the Drive For A Cure and again had the opportunity to sample a diverse menu of experiences, the 135 stands out in the class)
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    You might like the idea of a nanny-free experience, but the nannies could save your bacon. I agree with FED the 135 is a hoot.

    I don't just like the idea, I like the reality. I might leave the DSC engaged when I'm trundling along on the street, but when I want to really enjoy a twisting two lane or an HPDE I much, MUCH prefer no electronic intervention save ABS- set with a high threshold, of course. I think that you'll find that fedlawman agrees with me. As for the 135i, it is a lot of fun, but until Munich sees fit to offer a limited slip it will not be on my new car shopping list.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I agree with both of you.

    It depends on the setting and the individual. I can see situations where I would choose one over the other, but I would not want to be stuck with either as my only car.

    I will say that if I owned a 135i or 335i, I know I would become bored with it in a couple years. My E30 is the first car I've owned that I know I'll never get rid of. It just has too much goodness - performance, character, looks, exclusivity.
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    cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,510
    "It just has too much goodness - performance, character, looks, exclusivity."

    Exactly.

    This is how I'd feel if I could get a nice '65 MGB to drive around on weekends. I could still work on it, no one else has one and, as I recall, it had the tightest shift linkage & steering ever. When I went from it to a 240-Z, I found the steering rubbery & the shift linkage pretty sloppy as well. Of course, the Z was the better car in many other ways, but the B certainly had its points.

    It's a shame that BMW has taken the path to remove the driver from the maintenance and hands-on enjoyment of the car, beyond driving it. I read Roundel every month & probably will for years, since the people who write the articles & who ask the questions actually want to do hands-on things with their cars. A computer with wheels doesn't do too much for me, and I get the impression that the Roundel crowd agrees.

    I went with an appliance recently (Honda/Acura TSX), but was very pleased to see how the owners manual went into great detail to help the owner do basic tasks (oil & filter changes, bulbs, etc.) -- they're not in the "take it to the dealer for everything" mode, which BMW seems to embrace wholeheartedly. I'm moved to question which one is the appliance, really?
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    I went with an appliance recently (Honda/Acura TSX), but was very pleased to see how the owners manual went into great detail to help the owner do basic tasks (oil & filter changes, bulbs, etc.) -- they're not in the "take it to the dealer for everything" mode, which BMW seems to embrace wholeheartedly. I'm moved to question which one is the appliance, really?

    Sad to say, my Mazdaspeed's manual doesn't provide much more-if any-DIY info than the manual for my wife's X3. In comparison, the manuals for my 1975 2002 and my old 1972 Bavaria provide instructions for changing the engine oil, transmission oil, final drive oil, and the coolant(including bleeding the cooling system. There are also directions for checking the clutch plate wear and adjusting the handbrake- although the manual does recommend that an authorized BMW dealer re-pack and adjust the front wheel bearings! I suspect that over 90% of current BMW owner/operators-driver is much to generous a term-would pee their pants at the thought of merely checking the coolant.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    All you have to do is read any "problems" thread here at Edmonds.com to see how ignorant most people are today about cars.

    The forums are filled with threads with testimonials like, "I bought a used 7 year-old (insert model here) with 106,000 miles 4 months ago, and the automatic transmission just starting making a funny noise whenever I drive over a manhole cover. I went to the dealer and they told me I need a new transmission for $5000. I'm never buying another (insert brand here) ever again."

    Then all the lemmings show up and start talking about the class action lawsuit they're going to pursue because (insert brand here) knowingly uses inferior components and won't stand behind their product.

    Sheesh!
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    All you have to do is read any "problems" thread here at Edmonds.com to see how ignorant most people are today about cars.

    The forums are filled with threads with testimonials like, "I bought a used 7 year-old (insert model here) with 106,000 miles 4 months ago, and the automatic transmission just starting making a funny noise whenever I drive over a manhole cover. I went to the dealer and they told me I need a new transmission for $5000. I'm never buying another (insert brand here) ever again."


    And Heaven forbid if any of these fools even crack their owners manual or take resposibility for their moronic actions...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    Here's a cool video from BMW touting some of the "BMW Performance" parts that are now available. The pricing isn't all that competative but some of the items are very cool- such as the "racing" seats and the steering wheel equipped with shift lights and other digital readouts. Of course, by the time I equipped a 135i with all the parts I wanted(including an LSD) the price tag would be such that for the same money I could buy a nice E30 M3 for track days, an E39 540i with MT for a commuter, and an early M Roadster just for doing smoky donuts and burnouts... :D

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,500
    I'll be happy to discuss the 2009 3 Series when you decide to do so. ;)
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    fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    The video linked above features a nice 3-series with factory performance parts installed.

    Here's a topic - the pros and cons of factory performance parts vs. Dinan. Discuss. :blush:
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    carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,500
    Being a carlover but not a gearhead, I confess that I am personally ignorant about and have never experienced any Dinan modifications. Please feel free to open discussion and educate me (us) on them as they relate to the '09 3 series.
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    jmarounjmaroun Member Posts: 151
    I'd be very careful to mod a car that's still under warrentee. Especially a BMW.
    I was considering removing/modifying the CDV valve for example..but
    have decided against it. First to second gear engagement was less
    seemless before they changed the fuel pump. I thought it was the CDV but after BMW changed the faulty fuel pump.. now, first gear gives
    far more roll for relaxed (under 3.5krpm) shifts. The result is a smoother
    shift from 1st to 2nd. I'm soooo glad they replaced that faulty fuel pump under warrentee!! I wonder if they would have had I modified the CDV.

    Joseph
    San Diego
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    carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,500
    Joseph, good point. I would hate to void a warranty. I'd be hesitant to have any German car not in warranty.
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    I'd be hesitant to have any German car not in warranty.

    Not me; here's a summary of the service/repair experiences of my 1995 3 Series and my wife's 2004 X3 2.5:
    The 3er sees my independent shop for the Inspection II(30K) service. I perform the Oil Services and Inspection I services myself. The coolant changes and the brake fluid flushes are done at either the dealer or the independent shop. As for repairs? Not many. I've replaced a couple of serpentine belt idler pullies and a brake light switch. I also spent 15 minutes and $44 replacing the timing chain tensioner as a precaution. It got a full set of pads and rotors at 103K, and a new thermostat at 104K. My average monthly expense? $50. I should also mention that the above maintenance figure includes 3 sets of Z rated rubber, as the car also serves as one of my track rats.

    The X3 has been serviced exclusively at the dealer(aside from my DIY oil changes). The monthly costs are higher($65/month) because of several services that were required during the past 18 months. I fitted four new P Zero Nero all season tires, changed the ATF and transfer case fluid(not required but vital for long term reliability), fitted new pads and rotors all around, and had the Inspection II and brake fluid flush performed. I also spent $55 to repair a wheel that my wife had gently curbed. Based on our annual mileage, the truck won't need any of those items again(save the brake flush and tires) for at least another 5 years. I do change the oil at 7.5K myself using an OEM filter and Mobil 1 0W-40; the 15K factory interval is a bit too long in my experience.
    Oh yeah, I also run a 1975 2002A...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "I'd be hesitant to have any German car not in warranty."

    I would personally say that I'd hesitate to own a modern German car not in warranty. As to the question of modding, it depends on the mod.

    Brake pads, tires, wheels, and carbon fiber dashboard trim won't void any warranty. As for the clutch delay valve, I think that's safe too - how would anyone know it's been removed? And even if they did, they would have to show its removal directly caused a component to fail. How could anyone do that?
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420
    As for the clutch delay valve, I think that's safe too - how would anyone know it's been removed?

    You can even buy a gutted CDV so that the car would pass a thorough visual inspection. My dealer is pretty good about reasonable mods; my service advisor tracks his E36 M3(he also rides a Triumph Bonneville- good man!) while several of the salespeople also run their cars at track events. It's nice to have actual enthusiasts in charge who cater to enthusiasts- it's so unlike many dealers and owners who lose their bladder control if "BMW and "track" are used in the same sentence...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,420

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Probably a good idea. It will increase engine longevity in M cars I suspect.
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