I test drove one the other day, really quite impressive. I agree, Toyota has at least tried to enter the style market, but still just doesn't quite have the flair.
As for Honda, I was the the Circle K yesterday when some guy drove up in a bright yellow Honda Accord Coupe. Since I didn't think it was a Honda color (especially with the burgundy interior) I asked about it. As soon as he said he had painted it that way to represent the lemon it was, I suspected I had met Urchin. But he assured me he had never even heard of Edmunds. He said he loved the car and couldn't pull himself to part with it, but had just had so many problems (including the relay) he just expected Honda to stand behind it. Sounds like a love-hate relationship. Said he had 95,000 miles on it.
I guess what amazed me is that someone could take that drastic a measure and still "love the car". That in itself has to say something about Honda.
Indeed, there are a LOT of flakes out there! This guy would pay the money to get his car painted yellow, to show the world how much he hates his "lemon"!
Honda makes as good a car, for the money, as any manufacturer in the World. HOWEVER, no company could ever live up to the reputation that Honda has built.
I don't own a Honda. I own an Olds, which according to earlier posts is not well respected in this circle. Oh well, I like mine and I've always driven american cars (this was my first new one). I still recognize that Honda makes a quaity product. I bet if you asked everyone in town hall what brand is on their list to look at, Honda would show up on the most lists.
BTW, I would really appreciate having one or two of the good Honda dealerships described earlier in this Topic in Upstate New York. I have no experience with the service departments here but the salesmen tend to be so arrogant that I can't stay in the showroom long enough to try to dicker on price.
85 Prelude -Bought 91 Stolen 92 , low miles no problems till 65,000 miles then went to hell. Gave up in '94 on fixing sold for $3000
94 civic coupe dx -New car purchase Good experience till 3 days after I bought it and dealer wanted me to sign "just a paper we forgot to have you Sign" and fax back. Ya right I don't think so. The little paper was a resale discloser notice stating that I was going to only get a 12 month 12000 mile warrenty because they replaced a faulty head gasket. This was a brand new car!!!!! Only 26 miles on it. I took the car back and demanded that I get a new one at the same price ($10800). Threatened calling DMV ect because in my eyes this was fraud. They thought' I'm sure that since I was only 20 and buying this on my own I would just go along. Got a new one though and it was a 95 because they couldn't find a 94 in the same color ect
95 civic coupe dx- 7 days after the previous car. had 18 months, couldn't understand why my envelopes were sticking together that were on my floorboard in the middle of summer in the desert. Some faulty plug in the bottom of car that let water in if I went though a gutter ect. Needed a bigger car with a baby and traded in for 10000 for the next car.
95 VW Jetta bought Spring 96 - Big piece of junk. broke down so many times I couldn't even call AAA anymore. Broken dash lights, molding falling off, gas indicator prob. (ran out once because of this),power stearing hose, alternator cable, battery ect. Glad to get rid of that piece of junk for......
95 honda passport 4WD V6 LX-bought in summer 98 LOVED this car. Only problems were the driver side back door sometimes got stuck and the water pump had a leak and the dealer replaced it (bought warrenty) for $50.Loved that car but I moved and are now commuting and it doen't get the best gas mileage for commuters, SOOOOO I unwillingly traded it in for.......
2000 civic ex - So far alright- Had a flat tire after having for 1 month, bad luck, sometimes it is hard to put in reverse even with the clutch all the way in, another who has driven my car noticed it too BBBBBBUUUUUUUTTTTTTT
LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THE DEALER
Got a good price $14588, at least I think so. It had just arrived the night before and was in back dirty ect. This dealer is in So. CA and they are similar to a "stone". Figure that out. Well I told them that I had no $ to put down that day. They said fine $500 , in two payments we will cash 1st one in 2 weeks and then 2nd one two weeks after that . They deposited one the next day, overdrawing my account. When I called inquiring about the problem an employee returned my call that I had placed at 6pm at 10pm. I had them pay the overdraft charge, took three weeks or so but I finally got it.Along with a huge headache. Then when I took delivery of my car I noticed that there was a scrath on the driver door, no problem they said, we'll fix it. Nope out of paint, we'll call you when we get it in. No call but I guess they made me an appointment and when I didn't show, because no one bothered to call me they sent the paint UPS to my house so that I could fix it myself. CUSTOMER NO SERVICE. So I went to have my cd changer and alarm installed which I was told would take one hour, guy tells me three since my car wasn't "pre loaded". NICE, I get to wait at the dealership the whole time, no offer to drive me anywhere. Then I get a notice from my bank that my passport payment is late and hadn't been paid off (over 10 days) The dealer decided to take his time to pay off my car because they hadn't gotten the check yet from the new lender, it was approved but they hadn't recieved the check. That's their policy. Then just when I think it is all over they send me a letter stating that I owe them $$$ because of the bounced check. At that point I still hadn't gotten the $ they owed me for cashing my check early (we had a signed contract for these payments that they referred to as drop payments). Almost every person I spoke to at that dealership was rude to me, some even told me that they had poor communication there. I told them that I was going to write a letter to honda along with my survey and they begged me practically not to do it saying that the salesman would get in trouble, even though it was finance and customer service depts that were bad. Haven't heard anything back yet.
>>>>Edited to remove potentially offensive acronym<<<<</i>
I you have had so many problems with the cars and dealerships in the past...why do you keep buying new Hondas?
I owned a couple of Hondas and was resonably happy with both the cars and the service depts. Not spectacular, I honestly don't think the quality was some giant leap above the rest, I had small problems with both cars even at low mileage, but over all, a good experience. I would buy another if they were making cars that appealed to me more. (Hello HONDA! Bring us the Accord Type-R!!)
I am driving a 99 VW Passat right now, my first VW, I had heard of the problems in the past, but doing my own research, figured I would give them a shot because the car is so fantastic. Well, it's been great, not one problem in 20k+ miles and the dealership has been great.
I'll tell you this though, if my VW had shown itself to be an unreliable, piece of junk then I certainly wouldn't be buying another one anytime soon. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
If I had had the problems with any manufacturer you have had with Honda, I would not be buying another one for a long time.
So I guess I am just wondering your motivations, etc. No flame, just honestly curious.
It wasn't the car it was the dealer. The experience with the dealer with my passport was great. The vw dealer was super also, he was very sorry and said sometimes that these things happen. It was the dealer where I bought the 1st civic ,I'm sure he knew the car had a problem when he sold it to me, and the last civic ( which are 2 different dealers since here in CA there are many to choose from). The problems were minor except the vw. Don't be so quick to judge, did I say every dealer was bad, NO. In reguards to the prelude, it was beat on when it was stolen so that is a matter in its own. My vw had problems after the 24,000 mark which you have not hit yet. No need for either of you to be so harsh, just stating my experiences take what you want from them or ignore them.
Please don't read anything into my remarks...I certainly didn't mean to be "harsh." If you go back and re-read your post, you might see it the way I did, someone who only has the info you have said and nothing else. I was just honestly wondering why you kept going back to the brand if you had so many past problems. Now that you have clarified that the dealer was the issue(at least in your mind), it makes a bit more sense, though I'm still not sure I would have done the same thing.
Just a note about the JD powers survey people habe been referring to. It does not, as some people suggest, factor in percieved quality. The numbe used is the average number of problems per 100 cars in four years. So calling olds a POS is silly, because it has 3.17 per car vs honda with 3.41. Both are excellent, though, and the difference is surely lost in the noise.
My 1999 Odyssey's transmission failed around two weeks ago. They have yet to find a replacement and have given me a Civic as a replacement. Has anyone else heard of this problem? Why is it taking so long?
There is another topic around here somewhere that describes a number of Ody's having a clunk in the tranny (while backing up, cold?). Anyway, they are all having Honda replace the tranny's, no questions, no cost. That is my guess as to why you are waiting for a tranny. They are all falling apart! (I know, that's a low blow)
They shouldn't be breaking down like that ANYWAY. Isn't this the fabled, infallible Honda? Even Daewoo does better than that. Is a quality product like Toyota going thru this? Customers should be treated better. The recent track record as described here and Honda Accord problems should be a red flag to really beware. Who needs the potential aggravation when so many other quality products WITHOUT this recent history are out there?
No car "should" ever cause any trouble. There are always people, like yourself, to delight in seeing a company with a great reputation having an isolated problem. Are you rubbing your hands together with glee?
Toyota also builds great cars. They had a long ongoing problem with head gaskets on their V-6 engines that took them years to figure out. They stepped up to the plate, however, and fixed cars that were way out of warranty. Good for them!
I am glad you mentioned Daewoo. They HAVE no history to speak of! They may turn out to be decent cars, who knows? they are a hodge podge of parts from different makes.
Or...maybe they will earn the same reputation of the other offerings from Korea...?
According to J D Powers 3 months initial quality survey the Daewoo Leganza ranks ranks 148 out of 194 cars. Someone must be having problems with them!!!!
Just to update you folks on my Ody tranny problems. My last post said I had been waiting for a couple of weeks. I have just started my 6th week waiting. Yes that is not a miss type 6 weeks. Honda has acknowledged that they are having problems. The transmissions are made in USA - so they can't use the excuse of a slow boat from China! What Honda has acknowledged is that they are not prepared to take a new tranny away from production for an existing owner. I have to wait until there is an extra. They can't make or sell enough Odys. The existing owner is out of luck for the sake of a new sale. All cars fail, but you have to back the product and provide sufficient replacement parts.
Hey guys, looking for an unbiased opinion: just bought a brand new 2000 Honda which of course has a clear coat finish. Apparently, the garage it was parked in at the dealer was painted and there were many light, very tiny white dots of paint that had misted on to the car from the paint spray. I was reluctnat to accept the car, but the dealer said they could be detailed off -- however, now I find out that they had to send it to a body shop to be wet sanded. They say it looks perfect; but I'm upset about the situation (the salesman was supposed to call me before doing anything like this). I can not imagine how the clear coat would withstand "wetsanding" of any form. Should I ask them to put another layer of clear coat on that half of the car? (Is that even possible?) I am at the point where I do not want to accept the car because of this. The dealer says they will put a "free" sealant on it and that doing so will return the car to normal. I've always heard that these sealants are a waste of money; moreover, can a sealant truly replace a sanded clear coat? Am I overreacting? Do you have an expert there on this stuff or similar experiences. Need help ASAP. Thanks!
Last update on my Od tranny problems. Yesterday I picked up my od - 6 full weeks to the day. I asked the Service Manager if he could give it a clean-up, as it has been sitting for 6 weeks. His response is that a detailing costs $110.00. You draw your own conclusions
IMHO it appears that problems such as paint overspray and wet sanding new cars, or waiting 6 weeks to replace a well documented transmission problem are caused by dealers who are arrogant, trading on the Honda name and motivated by immediate cash. There are other dealers who realize that satisfied customers are are likely repeat customers and will refer family and friends. I an lucky to have such a dealer. As for American cars, check out Daimler Chrysler's approach to many years of bad transmissions and their customer treatment. See http://badtrans.webprovider.com/index.htm. They make a 6 week wait look good. BTW my dealer washes my van at oil changes.
Has anyone experienced problems with swirl marks in a new 1999 or 2000 Prelude, Civic, or CR-V? If so, did you talk with the dealer or with Honda of North America? What was their response?
Any dealer that details a new car, and sends it through any of many poor car washes, or uses a hard paste wax on it, or doesn't use pure cotton towels, will leave swirl marks.
I assure you that cars do NOT come from the factory with swirls. Knowing that, I'd prefer to get a car from the factory before the idiot dealer gets to touch it, but that is never possible anymore.
But from what I read around here, it does seem to be possible - at least in some cases - to insist that the dealer deliver the car completely unprepped, even with the outer wrap still on it. I read in one of these topics that someone drove their just delivered car home with the wrap still on it.
fbradbu1, you might want to look through our various "wax" topics for discussions of how to correct this. You can key wax in to the Topic Search feature on the left of the page to find a bunch of 'em. I suggest you check out the archived "Waxes and Polishes" - I think it is in those that I've seen the most discussion of fixing swirl marks.
You also may want to ask your question in Prelude, Civic and CR-V topics. You can find them by keying the model name into the same Search feature.
Good luck,
Pat Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
You are right. The prep guy who gets paid $5.50/hour ($11,440/year) has little interest in making sure a car that costs at least $22K has no swirl marks in it. However, the dealership should take an interest. I do not know many folks who want to pay good money for a new car w/ damaged paint/clearcoats. My solution is to not buy Honda - I've looked at other sports cars and the swirl marks are either very few or nonexistent. I'm glad I didn't buy the S-2000 that I had originally looked at.
What I really would like to know whether or not you brought the swirls to the attention of the dealer and if so, what was their response? Did you have a response from Honda of North America?
I was just wondering, did you bring this to the attention of Honda of North America? What happened?
My personal opinion is that this is not specifically a "Honda" problem, I think it is a problem at many, maybe even most, dealerships in their prep routine - perhaps for the reasons you state. I absolutely agree with you that all dealerships should take an interest in this problem, but just from reading many many posts about this problem here in Town Hall, I do not believe the problem is only with Honda, I think many dealerships just don't understand what needs to be done to prep a car and not inflict swirl marks on the finish.
Just my 2 cents.
Have you had a chance to investigate those wax topics yet? They are a lot to read, but you will find lots of company.
Pat Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Unfortunately, it doesn't even make sense to bring it to the attention of the dealer. If they damaged the car, you already KNOW they are ignorant on the issue. The best thing they will do is re-wax the car, which will TEMPORARILY fill in the swirl marks. After a few rains, you'll see them again. This is the sad truth about a brand new car that has been marred.
My Odyssey was prepped by a Honda dealer and I didn't get the Deluxe Swirled Paint. Some colors maybe more prone to showing swirl marks. (My ODY is gray). More than likely, some dealers could care less. See my post #131 above.
Have told this story before but it needs telling again. Was in the process of buying a new accord-looking around an open lot with a honda salesman-noticed some really large swirl marks on a accord hood-then on the roof and then noticed all of the horizontal surfaces had very slight swirl/scratch marks. Took some doing but finally got the salesman to see the swirls. The salesman just pointed to a cell phone tower sitting in the middle of the lot-said when they put some paint on part of the tower-the overspray got on the cars and the paint shop just used some mild polishing compound to remove the paint overspray. The clear coat was clearly damaged on these vehicles and I will bet every car was sold as is by the blind salesmen.
Moral of the story-check a new car over very carefully before accepting it.
I had a 1990 Olds Cutlass and my wife still has her 1994 Civic EX. The Olds was sold with 100,000 miles (still running great) and the Honda now has 90,000 miles.
Comparing the 1st 90,000 of the olds to that of the Honda, the Olds did have a few more trips to the dealer. The Olds was probably in abt 6-8 times for non-maintainence while the Honda was in 2 or 3.
The Honda seems to be built with just the bare necessities, so there is not a lot to go wrong in the first place.
The Olds had EIGHT interior lights, honda 1. Honda has power locks, but only on the drivers side. Both sides in the olds. Honda doesn't have a dip stick for trans fluid, you have to find the trans screw, remove it, and look inside. Olds would chime if you left your lights on, Honda does not. Olds hood stays up by itself (and also had a cool light on a magnet that could be pulled out and stuck anywhere on the car), Honda has prop rod.
I would say less went wrong with the Honda, but there is less to go wrong to begin with.
Some would say good engineering, others cutting corners. You make your own decision.
So true racer, Hondas do offer less features than the domestics however, sometimes that isn't a bad thing at all. I have owned many domestics with alot off neat little gadgets (power ant, daytime lights, etc) but that was always the first to go wrong. Ford especially is into new innovations, yet they can't get the basic concept of the car down with it. They do lead the way with new features though and I guess that is what keeps the industry alive.
On a side note: I had an 87 Olds and I always thought it was weird that there were so many cars with the proprods to keep the hood up... until one gave way and almost crushed me. Sometimes basic is better, less to go wrong.
I just wanted to let everyone here know about a recent positive experience w/ my dealer, Kelly Honda in historic Salem, MA. I bought my Accord 2.5 years ago. I maintain my car well, using the dealer for major services and myself for oil changes and other minor issues. I just turned 37500 on the odometer and I brought it in for this relatively minor scheduled service. While there, I asked them to check the squeaky clutch pedal. This has been squeaking for over a year, but I never did much about it. Well, they came back and told me that the clutch master cylinder was leaking. Parts and labor 360 bucks. I was pretty shocked initially that this car should exhibit a problem of this magnitude. The 2 Accords I owned previous to this one never had this type of an issue at that milage, both went 10 years and 120k miles. Well, I bitched because I just turned the odometer past the warranty limit a couple of weeks ago (I had put 1500 miles on it during a trip to D.C. 2 weeks prior) and they had been servicing it regularly prior to that. Well, I gotta hand it to them, they decided to cover this problem under warranty. So chock up one for the dealer. Kudos to them. They deserve a pat on the back.
Thanks for the info, Bought mine at Herb Chambers. Will never go back. I have that squeeking clutch pedal as well, but it only occurs on really humid days. It's been like that for a while, and like yourself, never thought about it. Just turned 56K, have to check that out. Thanks again.
I was surprised to see a bunch of Accords on my local dealers lot (new york) built entirely in Japan...I was curious as to this...thought all US was domestic built, and if there are any issues regarding them regarding build quality or maintenance issues. Maybe I just never noticed this before...is it common?
To get back to the topic's question, so far our Honda has definitely lived up to its reputation. We have a 1999 Honda Civic LX with the manual transmission and have not had a single problem that has required a trip to the dealer in over 22,000 miles.
We just came back from a summer trip that put 4,800 miles on the car and everything works great. The car is a little noisy at highway speeds, but we knew we were buying a compact economy car not a super quiet luxury barge.
The car got around 34 mpg fuel economy for the entire trip and that includes long stints at 80 mph through Arizona and New Mexico (gotta love that 75 mph speed limit!).
The car is not perfect by any means, but it has met every expectation we had when we purchased it. I put in an aftermarket stereo immediately after buying the car, and that is the only modification we have made.
We bought the car over others we were considering specifically for the reliability. We had been burned by the famous Chrysler transmission traumas and did not want to deal with any dealer service issues on our next vehicle.
So far in fourteen months of ownership and 22,000 miles, I can state with complete assurance that I am totally satisfied with our choice.
Isellhondas-you must really appreciate selling vehicles with such a deserved (IMO) reputation for reliability!
I agree with Powerman. I have an Accord that I bought new in February of '99 and have not had a single problem with it. No squeaks or rattles either. The car is very well made.
I had a 91 Accord (I bought new) that I sold in January of 99. It was a great car! 80k miles and the only thing I ever did was routine maintenance. I did have some kind of recall and a part (I can't even remember what) replaced. It did have a problem with the paint at 50k miles--cracks (those white stars) on the hood. Honda was not very nice about it and told me to kiss off...that my car was old by industry standards and too bad for you. Yeah, but when I bought this Honda (now old according to him) I expected to drive it and have it look nice for longer than 50k miles! I wasn't happy about that at the time...but after my most recent experience with a Dodge vehicle (can you say LEMON?) I realize just how great a car that Honda was.
I bought my 91 Honda in June of 92 and got a great deal paying only $15,000 for an Accord EX coupe with a spoiler thrown in. I sold it in January of 99 for $8,400.
I recently traded my 97 Civic DX (bought new 5/97 with 7 miles). The car had nearly 90K miles and ran, handled, and looked nearly new. The only money I spent on it was gas and regular maintenance (never even needed brake pads!).
tomeeb, that is exactly the kind of long range reliability that I am looking for! I fully expect that my Civic will be problem-free and have a decent resale value.
I had a 1984 Mazda B2000 truck that I measure all my vehicles against. I kept the truck for sixteen years and then gave it to charity and it still ran great.
I don't expect to keep my Civic that long, but I think the reliability will be as good.
Comments
As for German Chryslers, does that mean we can also expect to pay the hefty price of other German cars?
As for Honda, I was the the Circle K yesterday when some guy drove up in a bright yellow Honda Accord Coupe. Since I didn't think it was a Honda color (especially with the burgundy interior) I asked about it. As soon as he said he had painted it that way to represent the lemon it was, I suspected I had met Urchin. But he assured me he had never even heard of Edmunds. He said he loved the car and couldn't pull himself to part with it, but had just had so many problems (including the relay) he just expected Honda to stand behind it. Sounds like a love-hate relationship. Said he had 95,000 miles on it.
I guess what amazed me is that someone could take that drastic a measure and still "love the car". That in itself has to say something about Honda.
No...wait! He LOVES it! Go figure!
I don't own a Honda. I own an Olds, which according to earlier posts is not well respected in this circle. Oh well, I like mine and I've always driven american cars (this was my first new one). I still recognize that Honda makes a quaity product. I bet if you asked everyone in town hall what brand is on their list to look at, Honda would show up on the most lists.
BTW, I would really appreciate having one or two of the good Honda dealerships described earlier in this Topic in Upstate New York. I have no experience with the service departments here but the salesmen tend to be so arrogant that I can't stay in the showroom long enough to try to dicker on price.
85 Prelude -Bought 91 Stolen 92 , low miles no problems till 65,000 miles then went to hell. Gave up in '94 on fixing sold for $3000
94 civic coupe dx -New car purchase Good experience till 3 days after I bought it and dealer wanted me to sign "just a paper we forgot to have you Sign" and fax back. Ya right I don't think so. The little paper was a resale discloser notice stating that I was going to only get a 12 month 12000 mile warrenty because they replaced a faulty head gasket. This was a brand new car!!!!! Only 26 miles on it. I took the car back and demanded that I get a new one at the same price ($10800). Threatened calling DMV ect because in my eyes this was fraud. They thought' I'm sure that since I was only 20 and buying this on my own I would just go along. Got a new one though and it was a 95 because they couldn't find a 94 in the same color ect
95 civic coupe dx- 7 days after the previous car.
had 18 months, couldn't understand why my envelopes were sticking together that were on my floorboard in the middle of summer in the desert. Some faulty plug in the bottom of car that let water in if I went though a gutter ect. Needed a bigger car with a baby and traded in for 10000
for the next car.
95 VW Jetta bought Spring 96 - Big piece of junk. broke down so many times I couldn't even call AAA anymore. Broken dash lights, molding falling off, gas indicator prob. (ran out once because of this),power stearing hose, alternator cable, battery ect. Glad to get rid of that piece of junk for......
95 honda passport 4WD V6 LX-bought in summer 98 LOVED this car. Only problems were the driver side back door sometimes got stuck and the water pump had a leak and the dealer replaced it (bought warrenty) for $50.Loved that car but I moved and are now commuting and it doen't get the best gas mileage for commuters, SOOOOO I unwillingly traded it in for.......
2000 civic ex - So far alright- Had a flat tire after having for 1 month, bad luck, sometimes it is hard to put in reverse even with the clutch all the way in, another who has driven my car noticed it too BBBBBBUUUUUUUTTTTTTT
LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THE DEALER
Got a good price $14588, at least I think so. It had just arrived the night before and was in back dirty ect. This dealer is in So. CA and they are similar to a "stone". Figure that out. Well I
told them that I had no $ to put down that day. They said fine $500 , in two payments we will cash 1st one in 2 weeks and then 2nd one two weeks after that . They deposited one the next day, overdrawing my account. When I called inquiring about the problem an employee returned my call that I had placed at 6pm at 10pm. I had them pay the overdraft charge, took three weeks or so but I finally got it.Along with a huge headache. Then when I took delivery of my car I noticed that there was a scrath on the driver door, no problem they said, we'll fix it. Nope out of paint, we'll call you when we get it in. No call but I guess they made me an appointment and when I didn't show, because no one bothered to call me they sent the paint UPS to my house so that I could fix it myself. CUSTOMER NO SERVICE. So I went to have my cd changer and alarm installed which I was told would take one hour, guy tells me three since my car wasn't "pre loaded". NICE, I get to wait at the dealership the whole time, no offer to drive me anywhere. Then I get a notice from my bank that my passport payment is late and hadn't been paid off (over 10 days) The dealer decided to take his time to pay off my car because they hadn't gotten the check yet from the new lender, it was approved but they hadn't recieved the check. That's their policy. Then just when I think it is all over they send me a letter stating that I owe them $$$ because of the bounced check. At that point I still hadn't gotten the $ they owed me for cashing my check early (we had a signed contract for these payments that they referred to as drop payments). Almost every person I spoke to at that dealership was rude to me, some even told me that they had poor communication there. I told them that I was going to write a letter to honda along with my survey and they begged me practically not to do it saying that the salesman would get in trouble, even though it was finance and customer service depts that were bad. Haven't heard anything back yet.
(You'll never get good service that way no matter what car you buy.)
I you have had so many problems with the cars and dealerships in the past...why do you keep buying new Hondas?
I owned a couple of Hondas and was resonably happy with both the cars and the service depts. Not spectacular, I honestly don't think the quality was some giant leap above the rest, I had small problems with both cars even at low mileage, but over all, a good experience. I would buy another if they were making cars that appealed to me more. (Hello HONDA! Bring us the Accord Type-R!!)
I am driving a 99 VW Passat right now, my first VW, I had heard of the problems in the past, but doing my own research, figured I would give them a shot because the car is so fantastic. Well, it's been great, not one problem in 20k+ miles and the dealership has been great.
I'll tell you this though, if my VW had shown itself to be an unreliable, piece of junk then I certainly wouldn't be buying another one anytime soon. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
If I had had the problems with any manufacturer you have had with Honda, I would not be buying another one for a long time.
So I guess I am just wondering your motivations, etc. No flame, just honestly curious.
:-)
dave
Toyota also builds great cars. They had a long ongoing problem with head gaskets on their V-6 engines that took them years to figure out. They stepped up to the plate, however, and fixed cars that were way out of warranty. Good for them!
I am glad you mentioned Daewoo. They HAVE no history to speak of! They may turn out to be decent cars, who knows? they are a hodge podge of parts from different makes.
Or...maybe they will earn the same reputation of the other offerings from Korea...?
Daewoo HAS no name to live up to!
Hey its name is looking mighty fine compared
to the clunking accords.
Or some vendor could change specs on a transmission part next week which will cause a clunk. Then what?
Anything can happen to any car! Look at LONG TERM overall performance.
http://www.alldata.com/includes/honda_notice.html
Honda has acknowledged that they are having problems. The transmissions are made in USA - so they can't use the excuse of a slow boat from China! What Honda has acknowledged is that they are not prepared to take a new tranny away from production for an existing owner. I have to wait until there is an extra. They can't make or sell enough Odys. The existing owner is out of luck for the sake of a new sale. All cars fail, but you have to back the product and provide sufficient replacement parts.
Honda which of course has a clear coat finish. Apparently, the garage
it
was parked in at the dealer was painted and there were many light, very
tiny white dots of paint that had misted on to the car from the paint
spray. I was reluctnat to accept the car, but the dealer said they
could
be detailed off -- however, now I find out that they had to send it to
a
body shop to be wet sanded. They say it looks perfect; but I'm upset
about the situation (the salesman was supposed to call me before doing
anything like this). I can not imagine how the clear coat would
withstand "wetsanding" of any form. Should I ask them to put another
layer of clear coat on that half of the car? (Is that even possible?) I
am at the point where I do not want to accept the car because of this.
The dealer says they will put a "free" sealant on it and that doing so
will return the car to normal. I've always heard that these sealants
are a waste of money; moreover, can a sealant truly replace a sanded
clear coat? Am I overreacting? Do you have an expert there on this
stuff or similar experiences. Need help ASAP. Thanks!
Yesterday I picked up my od - 6 full weeks to the day. I asked the Service Manager if he could give it a clean-up, as it has been sitting for 6 weeks. His response is that a detailing costs $110.00.
You draw your own conclusions
As for American cars, check out Daimler Chrysler's approach to many years of bad transmissions and their customer treatment. See
http://badtrans.webprovider.com/index.htm.
They make a 6 week wait look good. BTW my dealer washes my van at oil changes.
Any dealer that details a new car, and sends it through any of many poor car washes, or uses a hard paste wax on it, or doesn't use pure cotton towels, will leave swirl marks.
I assure you that cars do NOT come from the factory with swirls. Knowing that, I'd prefer to get a car from the factory before the idiot dealer gets to touch it, but that is never possible anymore.
fbradbu1, you might want to look through our various "wax" topics for discussions of how to correct this. You can key wax in to the Topic Search feature on the left of the page to find a bunch of 'em. I suggest you check out the archived "Waxes and Polishes" - I think it is in those that I've seen the most discussion of fixing swirl marks.
You also may want to ask your question in Prelude, Civic and CR-V topics. You can find them by keying the model name into the same Search feature.
Good luck,
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
What I really would like to know whether or not you brought the swirls to the attention of the dealer and if so, what was their response? Did you have a response from Honda of North America?
My personal opinion is that this is not specifically a "Honda" problem, I think it is a problem at many, maybe even most, dealerships in their prep routine - perhaps for the reasons you state. I absolutely agree with you that all dealerships should take an interest in this problem, but just from reading many many posts about this problem here in Town Hall, I do not believe the problem is only with Honda, I think many dealerships just don't understand what needs to be done to prep a car and not inflict swirl marks on the finish.
Just my 2 cents.
Have you had a chance to investigate those wax topics yet? They are a lot to read, but you will find lots of company.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Some colors maybe more prone to showing swirl marks. (My ODY is gray). More than likely, some dealers could care less. See my post #131 above.
Moral of the story-check a new car over very carefully before accepting it.
Comparing the 1st 90,000 of the olds to that of the Honda, the Olds did have a few more trips to the dealer. The Olds was probably in abt 6-8 times for non-maintainence while the Honda was in 2 or 3.
The Honda seems to be built with just the bare necessities, so there is not a lot to go wrong in the first place.
The Olds had EIGHT interior lights, honda 1.
Honda has power locks, but only on the drivers side. Both sides in the olds.
Honda doesn't have a dip stick for trans fluid, you have to find the trans screw, remove it, and look inside.
Olds would chime if you left your lights on, Honda does not.
Olds hood stays up by itself (and also had a cool light on a magnet that could be pulled out and stuck anywhere on the car), Honda has prop rod.
I would say less went wrong with the Honda, but there is less to go wrong to begin with.
Some would say good engineering, others cutting corners. You make your own decision.
On a side note: I had an 87 Olds and I always thought it was weird that there were so many cars with the proprods to keep the hood up... until one gave way and almost crushed me. Sometimes basic is better, less to go wrong.
recent positive experience w/ my dealer, Kelly
Honda in historic Salem, MA. I bought my Accord 2.5 years ago. I maintain my car well, using the
dealer for major services and myself for oil
changes and other minor issues. I just turned
37500 on the odometer and I brought it in for this relatively minor scheduled service. While there, I asked them to check the squeaky clutch pedal. This has been squeaking for over a year, but I never did much about it. Well, they came back and told me that the clutch master cylinder was leaking. Parts and labor 360 bucks. I was pretty shocked initially that this car should exhibit a problem of this magnitude. The 2 Accords I owned previous to this one never had this type of an issue at that milage, both went 10 years and 120k miles. Well, I bitched because I just turned the odometer past the warranty limit a couple of weeks ago (I had put 1500 miles on it during a trip to D.C. 2 weeks prior) and they had been servicing it regularly prior to that.
Well, I gotta hand it to them, they decided to cover this problem under warranty. So chock up one for the dealer. Kudos to them. They deserve a pat on the back.
We just came back from a summer trip that put 4,800 miles on the car and everything works great. The car is a little noisy at highway speeds, but we knew we were buying a compact economy car not a super quiet luxury barge.
The car got around 34 mpg fuel economy for the entire trip and that includes long stints at 80 mph through Arizona and New Mexico (gotta love that 75 mph speed limit!).
The car is not perfect by any means, but it has met every expectation we had when we purchased it. I put in an aftermarket stereo immediately after buying the car, and that is the only modification we have made.
We bought the car over others we were considering specifically for the reliability. We had been burned by the famous Chrysler transmission traumas and did not want to deal with any dealer service issues on our next vehicle.
So far in fourteen months of ownership and 22,000 miles, I can state with complete assurance that I am totally satisfied with our choice.
Isellhondas-you must really appreciate selling vehicles with such a deserved (IMO) reputation for reliability!
Glad to hear you are enjoying your Civic!
Lisa
I was VERY happy about THAT!
I had a 1984 Mazda B2000 truck that I measure all my vehicles against. I kept the truck for sixteen years and then gave it to charity and it still ran great.
I don't expect to keep my Civic that long, but I think the reliability will be as good.