At these exchange rates, the American market seems very lucrative - just look at the $13,400 base price in JDM compared to the US $20,000 base. That's another reason they introduced the Forester in the US I bet.
We'll certainly benefit in the long run - I'm sure a lot of that money will end up in R&D for new models.
I wonder if Japanese dealers are suffering shortages because most production is assigned to overseas markets?
The thing I noticed in the latest batch of 2003 Forester pics is that the rear strut towers look the same as in the 98-02 model. About the only feature that would have had me thinking about trading in my '99 was if they went with a rear linkage, a la Legacy and new Impreza, to increase seating and load carrying versatility. It is amazing how many things don't quite fit because of those strut towers! If they have managed to squeeze some extra rear leg room they have done it by some other means.
Actually, the new Imprezas also get rear struts too. We were all hoping for the Legacy rear suspension in the 2003 Forester, but we all new that was a long shot given that it shares chassis with the Impreza.
correct-- the '02 Impreza's rear suspension is actually the same as the previous generation Legacy. (96-99) this has an additional linkage over the first generation (93-01) impreza and uses a strange angled top strut mount.
Thanks for the clarification Ken and Colin. The rear suspension in the '02 Impreza certainly seems to intrude into the cargo compartment less than in the '93-'01 model. The '03 Forester pics make the rear towers look exactly like the '98-'01 version. Maybe the '03 Forester has stuck with the previous generation Impreza chassis?
Yes I've driven one but not at the limit like in an autocross. From what I was able to sample, I can tell the chassis is much better and obviously the WRX is quite quick.
I thought I could feel the additional weight under braking though, larger rotors on the same calipers is no serious improvement. And continuing to use the Bridgestone RE92 as the original equipment tire is a huge mistake.
Were you curious about anything specific though? That's just a few thoughts that came to mind about it.
paisan: Honda will build the Model X. We'll see how Americans like the very "Tokyo Show" styling.
Ed: Avanti SUV? I just barely missed the Avanti meet in Old Town Kissimee, FL. There were 25 cars there the Friday before I arrived. Old Town had an import speed shop, too, but it was mostly stuff for boy-racers. I did like the brake kits they had, though.
I like the additional good news about the Forester content. Aluminum on the hood, bumper beams, and roof rails. Notice in Japan they made the roof rails in brushed aluminum? Nice touch.
We were wondering, and the article did mention a full size spare on all models. Quicker steering, less weight, bigger brakes, anyone else think Subaru is very much sticking to the sporty end of the segment? The engine is on the way, the only question is which one. Will we get a 2.5T XS or a 3.0 XS?
Still 7.5" ground clearance? Looks like more, but maybe it'll be a true 7.5" this time. It's odd that the H6 models have more clearance than the Forester, though.
I recall they said there is 40mm more cabin space, so if the front seat gets 13.5mm more travel, that leaves an extra 26.5mm. Though to me it looks like it went into the cargo area, which looks longer. The rear doors look longer, but the back seat looks about the same as now, at least from those photos.
The rear strut towers do appear to protrude like the current ones, so that means 4 struts. Bummer.
More notes from the JDM photos: I like the individual front seat-mounted arm rests. Still have not seen any cup holders, but I bet they go where that gadget (cell phone) are in the photo. I prefer the wheels on the base models there. Or give us those Prodrive wheels. :-)
Bottom line? I see the still smallish back seat as the only real complaint, and that's if I'm right about the size of it.
No, nothing specific. Just wanted to hear your general views and impressions as a GC8 2.5 RS owner. Did you notice the turbo lag much? Would you consider getting one in the future?
Turbo lag was definitely present, but I've felt worse. I felt it was more pronounced than an Audi A4 1.8T, although I haven't driven the 225HP version of that engine which would be a more fair comparison.
The WRX has got good power but isn't particularly fast to me. If I lived at high altitude or travelled there frequently, I would probably already own one. If Subaru had started selling Impreza turbos in 1994 instead of the SVX, I'd definitely already own one. It's fast enough I'd leave well enough alone and wouldn't do anything other than maybe a muffler and definitely new tires.
I'd consider getting a WRX wagon if I were buying a new car, sure. I'd consider one even more a few years down the road as a used car. Not real keen on handing over $23k right about now... but I am looking at another bike. ;-)
juice: thta's not the one out in Gaithersburg that also sells Harleys and BMWs is it? If so I've been there and it's impressive once you get past all the Harley logo schlock.
I didn't ask him specifically. But there can't be too many Ducati dealers around. They are rare, but that's part of the appeal.
Back to the trip, my rental was a Taurus (dare I bring up Ford again?). For comparison's sake, I'll share the things I liked and disliked about it:
Likes:
* interior width and room * flip-up center console * dash, speedo, other ergonomics * materials (carpet, headliner, visor) * ride * torquey V6 was quiet and smooth * trunk pops up when you press keyless button * rear seat belts are ALR type, like Subaru * roomy trunk for a sedan, deep
Dislikes: * handling way too soft * a bit much wind noise * puddle lamps positioned poorly * no vanity lights? * seats over padded, spongy * mileage in the high teens * still a sedan, so cargo was tight
I did see some cost cutting, since my dad's old Taurus had vanity lights and a few other features missing here. The puddle lamps are on the outside mirror, so you open the door to get in and they are useless - it's dark. They should be under the door or somewhere more useful.
Overall, though, I liked it better than the Pontiac Montana we rented last time. That van had a coarse engine and cheaper materials, plus the air bag warning light was on.
Bottom line? I wouldn't mind a roomier Subie with an H6, not a bit, especially for relaxed family hauling duties. Subies have so much more character.
Ken-- fast would be BMW M3, Camaro, Corvette, Boxster S, stuff like that. The WRX's 0-60 and standing quartermile times are plenty competitive when you use a brutal AWD launch. Under standard driving, it's considerably off the pace. The STi hangs with most of that crowd though. ;-)
Really fast would be a sportbike. Although I'm looking at a dirtbike now... well, a dual-sport really. I'm looking at something my dad's friend has with 140 miles on it (2 years old) when it gets warmer, maybe March.
Woo-hoo! That is good news, indeed. Next will you tell us the H6 will be offered as a stand-alone options on all Legacy/Outback and Forester models? With a 6 speed?
overall I've grown to like webX quite a bit, certainly more reliable than WellEngaged ever was. but it's times like this I wished for WE's hidden feature so I could post this OT bit and not everyone would have to read it.
anyway juice I'm aiming high. you can easily convert many dirtbike or enduro models to street legality (except in NY or CA) by adding appropriate lights and DOT-legal tires. since discovering that, I've been waiting patiently for the right time to get a Honda XR650R and convert it to dual-sport use, probably with a set of real street tires (I can swap to knobbies in 5 minutes per wheel). why not just get an XR650L? the R model has 60HP (20 more!) and weighs 50 pounds less (277). by my standards that's still a very heavy motorcrosser but it's an extremely light dual-sport.
if you want to discuss more let's take it to email. I'd be interested in hearing about your d/s experiences.
I can't seem to find the Boxter S 0-60 times at the moment, but I seem to remember that it is slower than the WRX. Am I wrong? If not, they have to be extremely close. And, yes, we're talking about a hard launch on the WRX, but all best 0-60 times published are made with hard launches.
And, of course, let's not forget that all the other cars you mention are quite a bit more expensive (well, except for the Z28).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It wasn't about price, it was about what I thought was fast.
You're probably right that the Boxster S is slower than the WRX in magazine-test 0-60 times and possibly even quartermile as well. But have you driven one? I have... not as aggressively as I'd like to given it was a coworker's lease but they've got some punch. I'm a sucker for throttle response anyway, and at any rate it's just my opinion.
edit: thought about something else that I thought was fast. a turbocharged RS running only 8psi of boost. very quick, nearly instant boost, etc. let's see a WRX with a 2.5L turbo!
ken-- we talked about that a bit before. the VTD's planetary gearset centre differential is very similar to what's used in the STi manual transmission models that have driver-adjustable torque split.
Rental Tauri, Luminae and so on are a breed unto themselves. Automakers sell so many of them that they do special production runs just for the rent-a-car companies. This might not be true if you rent, say, a Volvo AllRoad or something special, but a Taurus is almost certainly spec'd out for the rental company.
I never raced the bikes, but enjoyed owning them. I'll offer one tip and leave it at that: do not lend it to friends, even for a quick ride, unless they plan on helping you wash and detail it afterwards!
No, Colin, let's see my Forester with 8psi of boost! ;-)
Went to the new Fitz location in Gaithersburg yesterday to check it out, and they have a new Subie location right next to Toyota's. After checking out all the familiar Subies, I hit the Toy dealer. They had a USED Highlander Limited for $29k, and that's with cloth seats! Holy Cow!
OK, it was CPO, but that means used to me! Nice, though, very roomy for people and cargo. New, and for $25k, I'd buy one. Maybe $28k with leather. But $29k used is ridiculous.
Their MR2 carried a markup, hard to believe. About a grand over MSRP ($26k range). It has a little more leg room than my Miata, but not significant. Still tight, with less cargo room, if that's possible.
The new Corolla looks nice for what it is. They had a CPO model right next to a new one, and what you notice is how tall the new one is, several inches higher. Room is impressive for a compact.
They had a Matrix XR, a 130hp model, for about $20k once equipped. It's roomier than it looks, with perhaps a slight edge over the Protoge5 and Impreza wagons, perhaps because it is so tall. They styling looks good even in person, I'd call it the most stylish new wagon out there, at about any price. Thumbs up. Too bad the AWD model only gets a wimpy 123hp, and costs over $20 grand (more once equipped). The Impreza TS wagon in the same showroom was selling for $17k with 42 more horses. Tough sell.
Can you believe my wife would not get out of her car? I'm serious, she sat in her car listening to the radio the whole time.
I was staring at the 4Runner in our parking lot yesterday and it hit me -- the new Forester has some sheet metal styling that's a little like the 4Runner -- at least the MY 4Runner I was looking at.
We rented a Camery a few months ago in FL and it was great - spacious and reasonably powerful. Actually, we did not rent it (the Camery) we rented the smallest, cheapest car we could get and ended up with a SuKzuki Swift. It was well after dark when we picked it up (that's important to the story). I got up the next day and decided to give the Swift a better look-over. The rear passenger side tire was bald and I could see the steel belt in one place. So, I called the rental company and screamed at them for a while about "death-traps" and so forth and a very nice fellow drove the Camry down to us and took the death-trap Swift away. Then we drove the Camry all over the place -- Tampa out to Lakeland, up to Orlando, through Ocala, up to Lake City and back down to Gaineville and back to Tampa. Very sweet car. Kinda barren inside, maybe too much space for me, but it drove very nicely and was quite civilized.
Comments
-Colin
http://auto.ascii24.com/auto24/issue/2002/0212/02npr_kt0212_01.html?top
-Dennis
• Hood scoop (turbo) on several models.
• Dual-range 5-speed tranny
• Blackwall tires
• No roof rack cross bars.
• Fold-down rear center armrest (I doubt we'll get that).
• Rally version: blue w/decals, gold wheels with aggressive tire tread.
• Some gizmo(?) in Japanese, on the center console.
Bob
a) turbo hood scoop (drool, drool, drool)
b) body colored mirrors
c) body colored handles
d) factory tint on rear windows
Note that red Forester pix from media.subaru.com featured black handles and black mirrors... US spec vs Japanese spec?
http://www.subiegal.com/images/rallies/netq2001/shakedown/forester.jpg
Btw - How do you hide links again? :-)
-Dennis
John
Bob
http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=37212&dm=yes
We'll certainly benefit in the long run - I'm sure a lot of that money will end up in R&D for new models.
I wonder if Japanese dealers are suffering shortages because most production is assigned to overseas markets?
--Bart
http://www.auto.com/industry/econ12_20020212.htm
This could be due to the camera lense used, but the profile images appear to make the car look longer than the current models.
Bob
-mike
Maybe the remote for the various things the
CRT on top of the dash does? Joy stick would
help you navigate on screen menus easier.
-Dave
Bob
Ken
-Colin
Have you had a chance to drive a WRX or new Impreza yet? Just curious on what you thought.
Ken
Yes I've driven one but not at the limit like in an autocross. From what I was able to sample, I can tell the chassis is much better and obviously the WRX is quite quick.
I thought I could feel the additional weight under braking though, larger rotors on the same calipers is no serious improvement. And continuing to use the Bridgestone RE92 as the original equipment tire is a huge mistake.
Were you curious about anything specific though? That's just a few thoughts that came to mind about it.
-Colin
paisan: Honda will build the Model X. We'll see how Americans like the very "Tokyo Show" styling.
Ed: Avanti SUV? I just barely missed the Avanti meet in Old Town Kissimee, FL. There were 25 cars there the Friday before I arrived. Old Town had an import speed shop, too, but it was mostly stuff for boy-racers. I did like the brake kits they had, though.
I like the additional good news about the Forester content. Aluminum on the hood, bumper beams, and roof rails. Notice in Japan they made the roof rails in brushed aluminum? Nice touch.
We were wondering, and the article did mention a full size spare on all models. Quicker steering, less weight, bigger brakes, anyone else think Subaru is very much sticking to the sporty end of the segment? The engine is on the way, the only question is which one. Will we get a 2.5T XS or a 3.0 XS?
Still 7.5" ground clearance? Looks like more, but maybe it'll be a true 7.5" this time. It's odd that the H6 models have more clearance than the Forester, though.
I recall they said there is 40mm more cabin space, so if the front seat gets 13.5mm more travel, that leaves an extra 26.5mm. Though to me it looks like it went into the cargo area, which looks longer. The rear doors look longer, but the back seat looks about the same as now, at least from those photos.
The rear strut towers do appear to protrude like the current ones, so that means 4 struts. Bummer.
More notes from the JDM photos: I like the individual front seat-mounted arm rests. Still have not seen any cup holders, but I bet they go where that gadget (cell phone) are in the photo. I prefer the wheels on the base models there. Or give us those Prodrive wheels. :-)
Bottom line? I see the still smallish back seat as the only real complaint, and that's if I'm right about the size of it.
-juice
- HID light option
- VDC option
- Dual sunglass holder
- All models get rear LSD standard
Ken
No, nothing specific. Just wanted to hear your general views and impressions as a GC8 2.5 RS owner. Did you notice the turbo lag much? Would you consider getting one in the future?
Ken
The WRX has got good power but isn't particularly fast to me. If I lived at high altitude or travelled there frequently, I would probably already own one. If Subaru had started selling Impreza turbos in 1994 instead of the SVX, I'd definitely already own one. It's fast enough I'd leave well enough alone and wouldn't do anything other than maybe a muffler and definitely new tires.
I'd consider getting a WRX wagon if I were buying a new car, sure. I'd consider one even more a few years down the road as a used car. Not real keen on handing over $23k right about now... but I am looking at another bike. ;-)
-Colin
My Ducati buddy just bought another one. Very nice. His old bike is still for sale on consignment at the Ducati dealership.
-juice
So, what do you consider fast? No fair if you're including bikes into the mix. :-)
Ken
http://210.254.95.20/showroom/imp_sti_ra/
The Impreza WRX STi Type RA Spec C.
-Dennis
Ed
Back to the trip, my rental was a Taurus (dare I bring up Ford again?). For comparison's sake, I'll share the things I liked and disliked about it:
Likes:
* interior width and room
* flip-up center console
* dash, speedo, other ergonomics
* materials (carpet, headliner, visor)
* ride
* torquey V6 was quiet and smooth
* trunk pops up when you press keyless button
* rear seat belts are ALR type, like Subaru
* roomy trunk for a sedan, deep
Dislikes:
* handling way too soft
* a bit much wind noise
* puddle lamps positioned poorly
* no vanity lights?
* seats over padded, spongy
* mileage in the high teens
* still a sedan, so cargo was tight
I did see some cost cutting, since my dad's old Taurus had vanity lights and a few other features missing here. The puddle lamps are on the outside mirror, so you open the door to get in and they are useless - it's dark. They should be under the door or somewhere more useful.
Overall, though, I liked it better than the Pontiac Montana we rented last time. That van had a coarse engine and cheaper materials, plus the air bag warning light was on.
Bottom line? I wouldn't mind a roomier Subie with an H6, not a bit, especially for relaxed family hauling duties. Subies have so much more character.
-juice
-Frank P.
Really fast would be a sportbike. Although I'm looking at a dirtbike now... well, a dual-sport really. I'm looking at something my dad's friend has with 140 miles on it (2 years old) when it gets warmer, maybe March.
-Colin
-juice
I know, I'm pushing my luck.
-juice
-juice
anyway juice I'm aiming high. you can easily convert many dirtbike or enduro models to street legality (except in NY or CA) by adding appropriate lights and DOT-legal tires. since discovering that, I've been waiting patiently for the right time to get a Honda XR650R and convert it to dual-sport use, probably with a set of real street tires (I can swap to knobbies in 5 minutes per wheel). why not just get an XR650L? the R model has 60HP (20 more!) and weighs 50 pounds less (277). by my standards that's still a very heavy motorcrosser but it's an extremely light dual-sport.
if you want to discuss more let's take it to email. I'd be interested in hearing about your d/s experiences.
-Colin
And, of course, let's not forget that all the other cars you mention are quite a bit more expensive (well, except for the Z28).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
You're probably right that the Boxster S is slower than the WRX in magazine-test 0-60 times and possibly even quartermile as well. But have you driven one? I have... not as aggressively as I'd like to given it was a coworker's lease but they've got some punch. I'm a sucker for throttle response anyway, and at any rate it's just my opinion.
edit: thought about something else that I thought was fast. a turbocharged RS running only 8psi of boost. very quick, nearly instant boost, etc. let's see a WRX with a 2.5L turbo!
-Colin
Does anyone know if, in theory, VTD can work on MT? Now, THAT would be sweet.
Ken
-mike
Jim
so yes, I would bet that VTD works with both.
-Colin
Cheers,
-wdb
While you're at it, anything other new interesting info from New Orleans?
-Dennis
No, Colin, let's see my Forester with 8psi of boost! ;-)
Went to the new Fitz location in Gaithersburg yesterday to check it out, and they have a new Subie location right next to Toyota's. After checking out all the familiar Subies, I hit the Toy dealer. They had a USED Highlander Limited for $29k, and that's with cloth seats! Holy Cow!
OK, it was CPO, but that means used to me! Nice, though, very roomy for people and cargo. New, and for $25k, I'd buy one. Maybe $28k with leather. But $29k used is ridiculous.
Their MR2 carried a markup, hard to believe. About a grand over MSRP ($26k range). It has a little more leg room than my Miata, but not significant. Still tight, with less cargo room, if that's possible.
The new Corolla looks nice for what it is. They had a CPO model right next to a new one, and what you notice is how tall the new one is, several inches higher. Room is impressive for a compact.
They had a Matrix XR, a 130hp model, for about $20k once equipped. It's roomier than it looks, with perhaps a slight edge over the Protoge5 and Impreza wagons, perhaps because it is so tall. They styling looks good even in person, I'd call it the most stylish new wagon out there, at about any price. Thumbs up. Too bad the AWD model only gets a wimpy 123hp, and costs over $20 grand (more once equipped). The Impreza TS wagon in the same showroom was selling for $17k with 42 more horses. Tough sell.
Can you believe my wife would not get out of her car? I'm serious, she sat in her car listening to the radio the whole time.
-juice
Cheers Pat.
-juice
Cheers Pat.
We rented a Camery a few months ago in FL and it was great - spacious and reasonably powerful. Actually, we did not rent it (the Camery) we rented the smallest, cheapest car we could get and ended up with a SuKzuki Swift. It was well after dark when we picked it up (that's important to the story). I got up the next day and decided to give the Swift a better look-over. The rear passenger side tire was bald and I could see the steel belt in one place. So, I called the rental company and screamed at them for a while about "death-traps" and so forth and a very nice fellow drove the Camry down to us and took the death-trap Swift away. Then we drove the Camry all over the place -- Tampa out to Lakeland, up to Orlando, through Ocala, up to Lake City and back down to Gaineville and back to Tampa. Very sweet car. Kinda barren inside, maybe too much space for me, but it drove very nicely and was quite civilized.