the advantage with garmin & navman is that there is no monthly/yearly fee & you get access to entire country unlike other in-car system in which you only get area in which you live & if you want more, you will have to acll & unlock the code etc....
Why is Subaru shying away from Nav Systems for a long time......esp when Subaru is marketing cars that can go anywhere like for biking, hiking etc. Onstar won't cut it....i can't call onstar every min to figure out my destination ?
Nav system can be offered as an option for those who want to & can afford.
Just noticed in Japan Impreza Nav model introduced lately. Why USA customers are Subaru's last preference ?....like we waited for WRX for almost 10 years. Now we are waiting for Legacy B4 for over 5 years ????
When volume of sales in the US is high, then why Subaru is hesitant in offering choices in US, when it offers even to New Zealand for e.g I don't get it.
It's not only Subarus that get cool features in Japan.
For instance:
Power Retracting Mirrors- Optional and Std on almost every single Japanese made car for the JDM Navigation Systems- Optional from dealer on almost every Japanese made car for the JDM
I'm sure there are other examples of this as well.
Sweet Subie- With all the after-market Nav Sys out there, I don't see it as a make or break/must be offered feature. What would be great is that Subaru design its dash with pre-wire harness that can easily accomodate an (any) after-market system. That way, those who wants one have the option to use a system of their choice/liking opposed to being restricted to an OEM unit.
juice- It could happen. Profit from a car that sells would take precedent over loss revenue from an OEM Nav Sys. I believe this function into the form should add value to selling. i.e. If we're given a choice of head units. One with an auxiliary input/output, and the other without. Which are we likely to buy?
I like the sedan's C/D pillar design. Just a tad more aggressive than the current (already handsome) design.
The wagon looks very promising with that square back. It's got a tad of Focus wagon style, but that's OK because a Focus wagon has more interior space than a BMW 525i wagon.
They're tuned differently to suite different audience needs.
The 2.5l turbo on Forester XT that makes 210 is a low-boost unit designed to offer good all around performance. It will pull from down low, and throughout the rev range.
The 2.0l turbo on WRX that makes 227 hp is more of a high-performance engine for the sporty WRX. It has so-so low-end power.
The 2.5l turbo on STI that makes 300 hp is a hyper-performance engine designed for the hard-core driver.
I like the look of the sedan. While it does look like a little dash of Accord, a pinch of Mazda 6, it still addresses the new Impreza look (or is it the other way around?).
The wagon has rounded fender flares and less of a "crease" going down the side of the vehicle. I think it would look nice if it had a little more sharpness to the design.
I'm sure both are photochopped, but remember how accurate they were about the bug-eyed Impreza? We were in denial about them being accurate, at least I was.
The XT engine has 235 lb-ft, remember, more total and at 400 less rpm at its peak than the WRX 2.0l engine. Less peak power just means it drops off at high rpm, so it's a more usable work horse vs. a drag racing beast.
I believe it has less boost and a pre-cat, for starters. Both 2.5l turbo engines have AVCS though.
Why do you say the 2.5 is detuned to 300 hp? Just because their 2.0 can make that much power? The only way you can say the 2.5 is "detuned" is if it exists in another Subaru application from the factory with higher numbers. Does it?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I wouldn't say it's "detuned", since it's just being released, but it's safe to say that's it's conservatively tuned. If you were to extrapolate the state of tune the JDM STi is in, the 2.5l STi motor would have 375 hp. That's why he's saying it's detuned. I think they're leaving a lot of room for growth, and also making sure they don't stress the rest of the drivetrain.
Yes, the pictures may be Pphotoshopped, but they are in close agreement with Paul Hansen's guess on the ApexJapan website. I don't think the real thing will be drastically different.
Keep in mind that the US-spec STi engine also needs to deal with the wider range of gas quality here. The JDM STi can make 300HP with a 2.0 because it is possible to get higher octane gas of a more consistent quality. The more you increase boost, the more it will become suseptible to bad gas.
Looking at images of the Baja, and picturing all the pick-ups with shells in my neighborhood, it just dawned on me: why not base a high-clearance (8.4") AWD wagon on the Baja? I am talking about the turbo, of course. Is that a niche or what? Currently, there is no such vehicle shy of the Allroad or X-Volvos at a price of at least 50% - 100% more. A fun family vehicle with space, off-road capability, loads of torque - yet not a minivan nor an SUV. Small, comfortable and economic enough to be a daily driver.
Let me you all loud & clear, Subaru will previal! I test drove the Murano.....i would buy it over my dead body.
My 01 4cly OB & 02 MPV is any day better & cheaper by 10k at least. One important thing, all crossovers in the market are not real crossover as they are oversized & Subes are real crossover & car like ride. Murano suspension was horrible & paying 37k - you don't get ind sus. Surpisingly, i found the engine growling, i heard all the stories about nissan's great engine.... the interior is cheap(don;t get cheated by looking on the net), in person it sucks..... as much cargo space as forester........outback has much more space...
I bet with my wife that this car will sell for 5k below MSRP in less than a year!
I would gladly buy forester turbo or legacy tb or outback vdc & put a nice nav system - good to go for 10 years !
Doesn't sound anything like the Murano I drove a few months back. I thought it was pretty decent. It had good power and handled well too, at least for a crossover. Most of the write-ups I've seen say the same.
I found that the Murano with the 18" wheels is pretty stiff-legged. You have to keep in mind that it's definately being marketed with an emphasis on handling and being a "S"uv.
Nissan and Infiniti are pushing the road-oriented crossovers (Murano, FX 35/45) as mutant sports cars; which really not such a bad thing if they're not meant for off-roading, or serious "utility." Think of them as industrial-strength hatchbacks.
There must be a market for them, as I seen quite a few Muranos, and several FXs on the road.
Sorry for continuing this OT foray, but I must admit that I'm quite fascinated with the FX -- talk about a vehicle that plays by its own rules!
IMO, Infiniti is missing the boat by not making the FX45 their flagship model instead of the Q45. It would help to project an image of power, technology, and driving fun. The Q45 is a wee bit tired and not as unique as the FX.
just put those springs on an Outback. That'll certainly differentiate it more from the Legacy GT.
Krisshna: I'd heard the VQ at 3.5 liters had gotten perhaps too big and less smooth than it used to be. I'm curious, was it the ride or the handling that you disliked?
Colin: climb in an FX, it's not even a wagon! Cargo space is tiny unless you fold the seats. I think the Outback Sport has more cargo space behind the seat, and many call that a hatch (Forester being the real wagon on that chassis).
It's a G35 hatch with a huge lift kit and rear doors.
disliked the ride, didn;t drive long enough to see handling.....but wasn;t comfortable at all.
felt very claustrophobic, due that huge rear pillars & black interior......Perfect example between outback & murano - Murano is big but less usable space !
it's sort of a cross between an SUV and a sports car. If you're looking for traditional SUV "virtues" (space!), you may be disappointed. On the other hand, if you want a sports car, but need to carry "stuff" every now and then, and/or like the look of crossover-type SUVs, the Murano may be the answer.
I was thinking more from a marketing perspective. In the end, they are all Legacies. If the Baja continues not to sell too well, a sports wagon with clearance one step up from the Outback (and with the turbo engine) may make sense. It could be built in the same factory as the Baja with many identical parts, but would be sold as an inexpensive Allroad/Volvo X... competitor (more space, torque and clearance than the Outback).
The Baja is 6" longer than the Outback wagon. Give it a rear window that can be opened separately and a few other trick features, they might be able to sell enough to help make the entire Baja line worthwhile.
On the other hand, the fact that they cannot easily make it wider probably kills the whole idea.
The Baja isn't selling well because it just isn't a good concept. I can't see much demand for a five-passenger sedan interior (the sort that one finds in the Legacy, Accord, Camry, etc.) with ZERO hidden, secure trunk space. Sure, it's got a mini-pickup bed arrangement out back, but that won't hack it when someone is carrying passengers plus luggage or groceries in a downpour.
Your point is well taken. I hereby change the first sentence of my Post #9935 to read: "The Baja isn't selling well because it just wasn't well executed."
Next gen legacy is suppose to get an aluminum hood among other weight saving parts. According to Paul Hansen at http://www.apexjapan.com the next gen base Legacy sedan's weight should be close to an Impreza WRX.
I think i have made up my mind on my purchase...05 legacy turbo(assuming it is going to make it to US)......it must be 2-3k more than Forester XT........it must be worth that extra........saving my Mastercard Coupons already !
unfortunately, my quicktime isn't working, so haven't seen the video.
despite some camouflage, you can make out most of the lines evident in the apex "first pics".
I'm surprised the door handles are the (now)old-fashioned flip-up kind, as everyone (Subaru included....Forester & Impreza) seem to be going to the grab-and-pull kind.
Pic view is from front 3/4, so you get a bit of the side profile and can see definite "shoulder" lines and a very sculpted hood.
Comments
there is another good one(new one)....called navman.....go to
http://www.navmanusa.com/land/icn630/index.html
this one looks cool
the advantage with garmin & navman is that there is no monthly/yearly fee & you get access to entire country unlike other in-car system in which you only get area in which you live & if you want more, you will have to acll & unlock the code etc....
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Nav system can be offered as an option for those who want to & can afford.
Just noticed in Japan Impreza Nav model introduced lately. Why USA customers are Subaru's last preference ?....like we waited for WRX for almost 10 years. Now we are waiting for Legacy B4 for over 5 years ????
When volume of sales in the US is high, then why Subaru is hesitant in offering choices in US, when it offers even to New Zealand for e.g
I don't get it.
Very discouraging for Subaru enthusiasts like me.
For instance:
Power Retracting Mirrors- Optional and Std on almost every single Japanese made car for the JDM
Navigation Systems- Optional from dealer on almost every Japanese made car for the JDM
I'm sure there are other examples of this as well.
-mike
With all the after-market Nav Sys out there, I don't see it as a make or break/must be offered feature.
What would be great is that Subaru design its dash with pre-wire harness that can easily accomodate an (any) after-market system. That way, those who wants one have the option to use a system of their choice/liking opposed to being restricted to an OEM unit.
-Dave
-juice
It could happen. Profit from a car that sells would take precedent over loss revenue from an OEM Nav Sys.
I believe this function into the form should add value to selling. i.e. If we're given a choice of head units. One with an auxiliary input/output, and the other without. Which are we likely to buy?
-Dave
-juice
I like the sedan's C/D pillar design. Just a tad more aggressive than the current (already handsome) design.
The wagon looks very promising with that square back. It's got a tad of Focus wagon style, but that's OK because a Focus wagon has more interior space than a BMW 525i wagon.
Thumbs up.
-juice
can someone explain to me this ?
2.5l turbo on Forester XT makes 210
2.0l turbo on WRX makes 227 hp
2.5l turbo on STI makes 300 hp.
how ? what is the difference
The 2.5l turbo on Forester XT that makes 210 is a low-boost unit designed to offer good all around performance. It will pull from down low, and throughout the rev range.
The 2.0l turbo on WRX that makes 227 hp is more of a high-performance engine for the sporty WRX. It has so-so low-end power.
The 2.5l turbo on STI that makes 300 hp is a hyper-performance engine designed for the hard-core driver.
Bob
I like the look of the sedan. While it does look like a little dash of Accord, a pinch of Mazda 6, it still addresses the new Impreza look (or is it the other way around?).
The wagon has rounded fender flares and less of a "crease" going down the side of the vehicle. I think it would look nice if it had a little more sharpness to the design.
Ken
sweet_subie - And to top it off, the 300 h.p. is de-tuned for the STi. The JDM 2.0 already squeezes 300 hp out of the 2.0.
How do they detune anyway? Different ECU parameters, exhausts, cats, etc. ??
-Dennis
The XT engine has 235 lb-ft, remember, more total and at 400 less rpm at its peak than the WRX 2.0l engine. Less peak power just means it drops off at high rpm, so it's a more usable work horse vs. a drag racing beast.
I believe it has less boost and a pre-cat, for starters. Both 2.5l turbo engines have AVCS though.
-juice
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Keep in mind that the US-spec STi engine also needs to deal with the wider range of gas quality here. The JDM STi can make 300HP with a 2.0 because it is possible to get higher octane gas of a more consistent quality. The more you increase boost, the more it will become suseptible to bad gas.
Ken
Any comments?
- D.
Let me you all loud & clear, Subaru will previal!
I test drove the Murano.....i would buy it over my dead body.
My 01 4cly OB & 02 MPV is any day better & cheaper by 10k at least. One important thing, all crossovers in the market are not real crossover as they are oversized & Subes are real crossover & car like ride.
Murano suspension was horrible & paying 37k - you don't get ind sus.
Surpisingly, i found the engine growling, i heard all the stories about nissan's great engine....
the interior is cheap(don;t get cheated by looking on the net), in person it sucks.....
as much cargo space as forester........outback has much more space...
I bet with my wife that this car will sell for 5k below MSRP in less than a year!
I would gladly buy forester turbo or legacy tb or outback vdc & put a nice nav system - good to go for 10 years !
Bob
There must be a market for them, as I seen quite a few Muranos, and several FXs on the road.
Bob
IMO, Infiniti is missing the boat by not making the FX45 their flagship model instead of the Q45. It would help to project an image of power, technology, and driving fun. The Q45 is a wee bit tired and not as unique as the FX.
-Colin
my brother-in-law has MDX.....it is awesome, if were to belive in a big SUV & has deep pockets, i will buy that...
until then i am happy with my Sub! it was worth the checkout of other brands to see sub's worth BTW !
Krisshna: I'd heard the VQ at 3.5 liters had gotten perhaps too big and less smooth than it used to be. I'm curious, was it the ride or the handling that you disliked?
Colin: climb in an FX, it's not even a wagon! Cargo space is tiny unless you fold the seats. I think the Outback Sport has more cargo space behind the seat, and many call that a hatch (Forester being the real wagon on that chassis).
It's a G35 hatch with a huge lift kit and rear doors.
-juice
felt very claustrophobic, due that huge rear pillars & black interior......Perfect example between outback & murano - Murano is big but less usable space !
Bob
I was thinking more from a marketing perspective. In the end, they are all Legacies. If the Baja continues not to sell too well, a sports wagon with clearance one step up from the Outback (and with the turbo engine) may make sense. It could be built in the same factory as the Baja with many identical parts, but would be sold as an inexpensive Allroad/Volvo X... competitor (more space, torque and clearance than the Outback).
The Baja is 6" longer than the Outback wagon. Give it a rear window that can be opened separately and a few other trick features, they might be able to sell enough to help make the entire Baja line worthwhile.
On the other hand, the fact that they cannot easily make it wider probably kills the whole idea.
- D.
Bob
Your point is well taken. I hereby change the first sentence of my Post #9935 to read: "The Baja isn't selling well because it just wasn't well executed."
I wouldn't mind having half a foot extra in terms of room though. Two inches in the back seat, four in the cargo area.
-juice
Yes, I should have said conservatively tuned. I was referring to the fact that it "could" be tuned to 350-375 h.p. for the JDM.
-Dennis
see CR 0-60 numbers, both are pathetic,H4 -10-11sec even H6 - 9.5 sec........???????????
C&D just tested a Legacy L/SE and it took 8.8 seconds with the H4 and a manual.
Edmunds' H6 was quicker than the V6 Highlander and the Pilot too, IIRC.
-juice
DaveM
Ken
Lift one up - you notice.
-juice
I think i have made up my mind on my purchase...05 legacy turbo(assuming it is going to make it to US)......it must be 2-3k more than Forester XT........it must be worth that extra........saving my Mastercard Coupons already !
http://www.apexjapan.com/news/04_leg/rear_move.jpg
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/picture_library/dir_19/car_portal_pi- - c_9730.jpg?7000
plus video of testing at Nurburging
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/video_gallery/video_gallery_story.ph- p?id=36159
unfortunately, my quicktime isn't working, so haven't seen the video.
despite some camouflage, you can make out most of the lines evident in the apex "first pics".
I'm surprised the door handles are the (now)old-fashioned flip-up kind, as everyone (Subaru included....Forester & Impreza) seem to be going to the grab-and-pull kind.
Pic view is from front 3/4, so you get a bit of the side profile and can see definite "shoulder" lines and a very sculpted hood.
Ironically, when you close the video, a pop-up ad for the Evo comes up!
Ken
Jim
If so, think what Forester XT, STI & Legacy T can do to the rest ?
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- - _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=07666437
Bob