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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Well, SOA did surprise everyone when they first brought over the WRX. I believe magazines were expecting it to cost about $2-3K more than what it really was.

    Ken
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I read that article last night. I think they pegged it right on. They feel the styling is generic but they don't fault Subaru for that. I like the line about whenever Subaru tries to take a styling risk (ala SVX) the car appeals only to a small audience of "equally bizarre engineering enthusiasts".
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The all-new Legacy's styling is very safe, and doesn't break any new ground. I think this is the right direction for now, as this product line is Subaru's 'bread-'n-butter' model. Don't want to upset all those Outback customers, which has been Subaru's savior for a number of years.

    My take is: (1) the styling is very tasteful, and (2) Subaru fixed/updated all items that needed to be updated. I will take number (2) any day of the week over number (1).

    Bob
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    I think the legacy's design is very good ! It just did not appeal to a lot of audience because they were always overshawdowed by extran attention to WRX & Outback & lately forester.

    But this turbo & H6 will swing attention to legacy. I am very happy they retained the design, otherwise i might not have bought into new legacy design myself.

    When legacy design is not flawed why to mess with it. I think Camry, Accord & Maxima has risked a lot in getting bigger every year & changing design. I was shocked to see how big camry & maxima was one day, there is no way one can get great visibility in it. Even accord does not look so great.... I think it won't be long before these 3 will start scaling back in size etc.

    Plus, speaking of altima & maxima, except for powerful engine the quality is junk !

    So, with legacy, subs have done the right thing. But for some reason, i am finding this frameless frame suits sedan much better than wagon or OB. Any takers on this ?
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    By next summer I'll need a nice beater for work! So keep me in mind for your legover!! :)

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Jon, over at nasioc found this (News & Views, 35th Anniversary thread). Sounds like there will be a 5-speed H-6. Outback or Legacy?

    http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/ixSearchBu.jsp?model_year=2004&am- p;vehicle_line=Legacy+H6-3.0&publication_type=3&text_keyw- ord=&keyword=

    Bob
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    jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    I know you'll treat it right, and I'll love to see what you end up doing with it. I think 100 hp/liter to the wheels is a minimum. :)

    Jim
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.dominionpost.com/a/autos/2003/08/24/bh/
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I should rather refer to it as "daily driver" rather than "beater".

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/press/2003/03_08_21e.htm
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Looks like a GTI.

    And it's AWD :)

    -mike
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    still just a Suzuki.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I thought for sure a 5-speed H-6 for '04 would generate some discussion.

    rsholland Aug 24, 2003 6:01pm

    Tech Service Bulletin > 2004 > Legacy H6-3.0

     Online Download
     4EAT > 3.0 Liter> AWD
     MT5 > 3.0 Liter> AWD

    Bob
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    when I see it in material available to the public (ie Subaru website, brochure, etc.)

    -Brian
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Bob,

    I saw it but was too busy to post. Glad you brought it back up.

    I see this as a good thing but notice that it's "only" 3.0L. I hope it has AVCS and a reasonable upgrade in output; the existing 212 HP EZ30 certainly would make me choose a 2.5L turbo Legacy instead.

    -Colin
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    My sense is, because it's an '04 (carryover) model, nothing is new other than the 5-speed. I think SOA wants to test the water to see if it will fly, before offering an upgraded H-6/5-speed for the all-new '05 model.

    If it sells, then we'll see a better version for '05. If it doesn't, forgedaboutit.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, it's still a Zook. Looks much better, though.

    Why not that concept, what was it? The HM01 or VX01, something like that?

    Japan got the Legacy H6, so finally we now will get it. They probably waited until they had a 5 speed Manual ready for it.

    It'll be interesting. If it runs on regular fuel it'll be a contender for the wife's next car.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it's an Outback, and not a Legacy. SOA often internally refers to Outbacks as Legacys. It will probably sneak in just like the cloth-seat H-6 Outback did last spring.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, that could be tasty. What are the cloth H6 models selling for now, $23k? A $22k H6 5MT sounds sweet, no?

    -juice
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Can that 5MT H6 be for real? Didn't SOA announce MY2004 pricing a while back? Was the 5MT H6 on the price list?

    juice -- Japan already had an H6 Legacy with the previous body style but it only offered it with an automatic.

    If it's indeed true, I'd like to know how they managed to get a 5MT in there with no flywheel.

    Ken
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that site is from SOA. They listed it, so I'm hoping it's not an error.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Nowhere is the H-6 offered with a manual. This would be a first.

    Bob
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Uh Ken, they removed the flexplate and installed a flywheel?

    -Colin
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Since it's on the SOA website, couldn't Patti verify for us?

    Colin - I thought they couldn't put a flywheel in there because of space constraints. At least that was their "story" for not offering it in 5MT.

    Ken
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    That's completely untrue. I'm not saying someone didn't say it, but technically it's absurd.

    -Colin
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    The '99 NY auto show "rep" telling me that there wasn't a market in the U.S. for a WRX. :-)

    -Dennis
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Didn't we have this conversation two years ago? Feels oddly familiar...

    In any event, no EZ30 has ever been mated to a 5-speed in a production vehicle, not even in the JDM. It doesn't make sense that they would suddenly do it in the last year of the current Legacy body style. It would be a welcome, but puzzling move by SOA if so.

    Ken
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I highly doubt we'll see it, but the legacy has been getting weird stuff lately. Like in '03 it got the shift-tronic, and no other subies have gotten it... So they could be testing it out in the legacy.

    -mike
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.subdriven.com/artman/publish/article_60.shtml
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    if it's not going to happen, who would SOA make available a "tech sheet" on it?

    Time to start hounding dealers for '04 Outback & Legacy brochures...

    Bob
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://vwvortex.rely.net/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_1- 31.shtml
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is what the new Justy should have been, or at least looked like. Put the new Justy next to this new Polo Fun, and the Justy will look 20 years old...

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    H6 for the GT might save it from near extinction. I mean, how many have sold, 2.5 GT models I mean? Only one person here on Edmunds got one.

    To me it would make sense to bridge the gap by offering a more powerful Legacy 3.0GT for MY2004, though I would have preferred a turbo.

    The Justy looks too much like a Ford, at least Brazilian Fords, like the Fiesta.

    But that Polo is too cutesy. I still say bring back that mini comcept.

    -juice
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Put the pricing also next to each other. i am sure polo must be 50 -60% higher. Justy targets low-end market.

    BTW, Polo is the Jetta. So, expect this to come to US
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, I don't think so. Jetta is the Bora in other markets. Polo is smaller.

    I remember because they make the Golf in Brazil. VW of Europe wanted them to make the Polo as well, but Brazilians hated the styling (too cute) and begged Piech to let them go at it alone. They did, and they came up with the Gol/Voyage/Parati trio (hatch, sedan, wagon).

    But - VW said that was the last time they'd let Brazil have their very own platform, the next one would be a world car.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is smaller than the Golf, it's not a Jetta. It's about the size of the Justy. It's the entry-level VW sold in Europe, so the pricing should be in line with the Justy.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Justy = Holden Cruze.

    http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=- 19000

    If you want info on the upcoming Justy, just(y) go to this Holden site to get the full scoop. Badge-engineering at its best (or worst).

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I dunno, by itself, it's a cute little Suzuki, looks OK. Heck, I think I'd pick that over the way-too-cute Polo.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    even if it is cute. I wish it had AWD, however.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It seems, that for really small cars, like the Justy and Pleo, boxer engines don't make sense. My guess is that: (A) it requires more front overhang, a no-no in micro cars, (B) requires a 2 or 4 cylinder engine (3-cylinders not possible) and (C) may be too expensive to build.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, most are 3 cylinders.

    What about a small diesel boxer 4, though? If Subaru is serious about Europe, they'll have to build something.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    has a 1.3 diesel option. (This new does) I believe it's a Fiat engine.

    Bob
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.autoindex.org/news.plt?no=518
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    jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    asks a bunch of questions and lists the Legacy as having a choice of 6MT and 5EAT, and the 2.5T is listed at 250 hp, 5.7 seconds to 60 mph for the 6MT, 6.6 seconds to 60 mph for the 5EAT, and the Outback gets the 2.5T also! Statistics are starting to trickle out. Look in the "News and Rumors" page.

    Jim
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    *drool*

    I'll take a B5X or whatever they call that black sedan. 6sp MT? Please oh please let it come with a moonroof.

    Guess I'll take my name off the XT envy club, for now ;-)

    -Brian
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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,954
    Don't get me all excited this early in the morning! 6.6 in an automanual with AWD? That's exactly what I'm looking for! gimme a power seat and I'm in!!

    Damn!! I can't remember the name of that "other board". Arrrrggggg!!! I'm sure it will come to me.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    I'm not a big fan of alpha-numeric names, especially when they get ridiculously long (a la Hyundai's XG350L). So I hope that Subaru sticks with real names. But I certainly hope they don't go with a combination of both. "Subaru Legacy B5X" is just too confusing.

    Outback H4 turbo? Too much overlap with the straight Legacy wagon. Keep the turbo in the Legacy and keep the Outback as is with either the non-turbo H4 or H6.

    That having been said, a turbo Legacy wagon looks mighty sweet for our next car.

    Jon
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Hmmm... Interesting, but how's that going to mesh with a 240 HP Outback H-6?

    Bob (again, wearing his marketing cap)
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    who cares? Outback buyers aren't usually cross shopping the GT.
    *scampers off to News and Rumors*
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Who's going to complain if all the 2.5H4's become turbo versions? If they make that an engine used across the line, there's cost savings, right?

    Maybe the H6 will have more than 240hp?

    -Brian
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