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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    cross-shopping against the Legacy GT (although that could happen now), but instead cross-shopping against the Outback H-6.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just 5.7? ;-)

    That's slower than the XT, with just 210hp and a lesss slippery shape.

    Honestly, though? An Outback turbo? The image doesn't mesh. They should stick to the H6. An SUV alternative with a 4 banger?

    And once again, they'll have total overlap if the Legacy gets the H6 and the Outback gets the turbo. Everyone will cross-shop both again.

    I'll say it for the millionth time, the H6 should be kept exclusive to the Outback, while the 2.5T should go only in the Legacy.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    6-speed, and not 5-speed manuals with the turbo(s).

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe that'll address the wide gap between 1st and 2nd on the XT that someone keeps complaining about. ;-)

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    250 hp Outback 2.5GT turbo (6-speed or 5EAT), or a 240 hp Outback H-6 (5EAT) or a 250 hp Legacy GT (6-speed or 5EAT), which would you choose, and why?

    Inquiring minds want to know...

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it pretty much comes down to choosing between an engine with a timing chain or timing belt. They would probably be priced about the same, unless package content differs widely.

    Bob
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    That's what subaru must do. offers so many choices & increase the sales. it shouldn't cost them much.
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    subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    After serious consideration ( of posting this under an assumed name in case my wife reads it ) its a no-brainer for me:I 'd go with the Legacy GT 2.5T wagon with the 6MT.....my wife would want to drive it if I got the 5EAT! A 6MT would give the best of both worlds...longer legs at interstate cruising speed, when the turbo is on "stand-by" mode,thus improving MPG, and 5 other gears to put a big, silly grin on my face on the 2 lane. Does this mean SoA will now figure out how to limit the Sunroof and leather to a 5EAT package, only?
       The 2.5T/6MT combination would put Subaru in the thick of the "sport wagon" competition with Audi and BMW, a notch ahead of Mazda's M6 wagon.
    Mark
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Why make the choices seem so hard to chose from? ;-)

    I've always liked the Legacy. When we went shopping for the Outback, I originally wanted a Legacy GT wagon, but my dw got the veto vote and thought the Outback was more 'practical'. Now she has her MPV ES, so I think I get some 'diplomatic immunity' when it comes around to 'my' vehicle. LOL ;-)

    I really like the looks of the new GT/B5X sedan. I've been going back and forth rationalizing that a wagon would be more practical to still have, hence my initial interest in the XT. But, I keep getting drawn to that black sedan. I'm also thinking that the Outback version would be slightly more $ compared to the similar Legacy version.

    The H6 just seems like it would be higher priced or closer to $30k. Are we certain the H6 is going to be an option on the Legacy?

    So, as long as that 2.5H4 B5X sedan is under $30k, I'm sold! I guess the only remaining factor would be which tranny, as I'm certain my DW would try to veto a MT.

    -Brian
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I really want a wagon, that black sedan looks the $hiznit but I really miss the practicality of a wagon. And I'll be out there changing American perceptions of wagons one stoplight at a time. :)
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    bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    With the choices given, it would come down to either the Legacy GT or the OB GT since they both will be offered with the 6MT. The H6 OB is no go so long as it is in an automatic tranny only. Between the Legacy or the OB- depends on price, and what is offered in each line up. It sounds like both cars would be similar, if not the same engine wise. Also, which one comes out first?

    One last thing: it would have to be a wagon- I like being able to haul things, and people, around.

    Mark
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Because my wife only likes OB's with hood scoops. :-)

    -Dennis
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    So is it weight that they're considering for the wagon being 0.5 seconds slower than the sedan?

    Also, is it gearing for the OB wagon being slower than the GT wagon?

    Ken
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    If they want to increase sales, Subaru must offer various choices. PERIOD!

    All forester, OB, Legacy should come with choice of Manual, Turbo & H6.
    It will cost them much........

    Look at the choices Passat & Jetta have just in engines, 1.8t, 6cly, W8............
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://popularmechanics.com/outdoors/outdoors/2003/8/speed_sports- /
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    i think sube is serious about b11.

    shown in sydney last week, will be shown again in frank

    http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/sydneymotorshow/sydshowstory.asp?I- D=5192
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/news/aw/mtr030730- - 1amg.jpg

    http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_MTR/doc_mtr0307301/c- ms/news/newsarticle.html
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Honestly, SOA should seriously consider bringing in the MY05 Legacy sooner than May. I don't know how they're going to move many MY04s with this sort of news floating around! It's a sunk cost -- move on!

    Ken
    (who's next car purchase window opens up around March and doesn't want to wait too long for the new Legacy)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The turbo, at least in the XT, produces brute-force acceleration and mates nicely to the MT. So I'd pick a turbo+MT combination Legacy, that's my #1 personal pick.

    Until I drive an auto that convinces me otherwise, I'd pass on the turbo/automatic. And I cannot fathom the H6 outrunning the turbo with similar power, so the 6MT would mate to a turbo in my garage.

    If I had to get automatic, I think a revised H6 Outback would be the choice - more relaxed all around, luxurious. That would be my choice for a family/trip car. Good fuel economy for long range driving, quieter too.

    I think the GT generally costs a bit more than the Outback, though, and cost is a consideration because either of these would be moving upscale for us, the L Owners Club with Offspring.

    LOCO! :o)

    -juice
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    erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    I'm with Mark on this one. Either the 6 speed Legacy GT or Outback GT. Will have to drive both. Will the handling difference be worth the extra ground clearance. It will be hard to choose. Subaru - Please offer both. I like having such great choices.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    With that much power and a 6MT, you'll want the tighter suspension.

    Why? Balance. You need a balance of power and handling. Toss in braking and chassis bracing while you're at it.

    -juice
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    erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    I know I'll like the Legacy GT handling, but considering where I take our Outback now, I really could use the extra ground clearance. The Oregon Outback really can be a little rough on low clearance cars.
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    wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Member Posts: 158
    I'll take the Legacy GT with 6MT (Wagon please!). Why? Handling. The Outback with it's ground clearance wouldn't be quite as much fun in the twisties. That and I don't do much off pavement driving anyway and what I have done the Legacy would be just fine on.

    -Ian
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Tell me why cross shopping the Legacy and Outback is a problem for Subaru? Does Subaru really care whether you buy a $25K Legacy or a $25K Outback?

    As for my vote in Bob's poll, I'll have to cross shop them when they arrive at the dealers. :-)

    DaveM
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    There's no clear choice from what's been posted so far, with the exception of more people wanting to row the gearbox. I think if this Outback GT shows up it will be very interesting to see how that fairs against the Legacy GT.

    As for me, I'm leaning toward the Outback GT. Not sure about the tranny, but I think the Outback will be more trailer-friendly than the Legacy. No doubt the Legacy GT will be quicker on all roads, but I don't think the Outback will be any slouch.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Tell me why cross shopping the Legacy and Outback is a problem for Subaru?

    It just means more Subies for us to test, that's all. It could be worse. :)

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    if the Hill-Holder clutch will make it to the new Legacy? I doubt the turbos will get it, but you never know... Perhaps n/a models?? Seems odd that only the Forester has it.

    Bob
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    The XT has it so I can't see them adding it to the NA Legacies but excluding the Legacy turbos.

    But as a wise old geezer once said, "but you never know...". ;-)

    DaveM
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Legacy GT wagon with the 6-speed for me all the way!

    Would the HH Clutch make it to the Legacy? Well, so far the Forester is the only model to have it. SOA didn't add it to the Impreza or Legacy line right now. I'm sure they wanted to see how many people liked it before going whole-hog. Given some of the negative press on how it's hard to disengage, I can forsee some modifications to the current design.

    Ken
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    What's the better engine in the mountains? H-4T or H-6? Most would agree an H-4T as it can compress the thin air into dense air.

    What's the ratio of Outbacks to Legacies in the mountains? Probably 10 to 1.

    Should Subaru offer an Outback H-4T. Of course.
      
    DaveM
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Good point!
    I said 5EAT because our next car will be my wife's (if I can fight off this STi fever!).

    -Dennis
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dave: because it costs them more to have so many variants of one platform. That takes money away from R&D and other niceties. It would be like Porsche not racing at Le Mans to build an SUV! Ludicrous!

    Um, wait a sec... LOL

    If people are cross-shopping, that means they'll buy one or the other anyway, right? So SoA can save huge money by streamlining production a bit and those same customers will still buy a Subaru!

    My point is Subaru is too small to be everything to everybody. Let the Outback tackle the SUV-alternative crowd, with the expected six cylinder. Let the Legacy go after the performance crowd, which cares more about performance, not the number of cylinders.

    10 to 1 in the mountains? Sure, 10 to 1 at sea level too. The Legacy is invisible.

    Hill Holder: they'll either improve it, or drop it. Too many complaints as is.

    -juice
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy?artid=16110&amp- ;pg=2
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/prototype,view,Jaguar.spy?art- id=16111
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Saw that before.

    The Jag looks way too much like an Alfa, they flipped the grille back!

    I prefer the B11S anyway.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm sure relates back to the old XK120/140/150 & 3.8/S-Type sedans, not Alfa's grille.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You geezer, you would bring up cars from before I was born! LOL

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the current neo-S-type also has such a grille. :)

    Bob
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    6MT GT turbo wagon please! In silver. And if the hill holder weighs more, you can keep that, and you can also save the leather and heated seats and crap for the Limited.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    While Japan and others are getting Legacy v.4.0, it sounds like we're getting v.4.1 with 2.5T and 6-speed as upgrades. :)

    Bob
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    himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    It certainly looks as though Subaru is committed to upping their North American sales numbers.

    For once, it's good to see a carmaker bring a couple of guns to a knife fight.
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    spinakerspinaker Member Posts: 24
    Contrary to www.need-desire.com, http://media.subaru.com/ mentions nothing of the 3.0R Outback sedan. Any ideas?

    - Spinaker
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's interesting to note that the new European Justy is officially called the "G3X Justy." This leads me to wonder if Subaru will be phasing in this new alphanumeric naming system; meaning that the next-generation Justy will be called "G3X," and drop the word "Justy" altogether?

    With that thought in mind, will the all-new North American Legacy be called the "B5X Legacy" when it is officially announced, with the following generation model (5 years later) being called just the "B5X?" If this were to happen, my guess is the "X" would be replaced by a more specific trim indicator and/or engine indicator. So instead of of B5X, we might see B5-2.5T (or something along that line of thought) for the Legacy GT. Maybe there's no need to even indicate the displacement? It could be just B5T (for turbo), B5S (mid-level model), and B5 (base model).

    If Subaru is serious about going to alphanumeric model labeling, this makes the most sense as to how to implement the system. Do it gradually, so that it's less of a shock to the Subie faithful. This gives them 5 years to get used to the idea.

    http://www.subdriven.com/artman/publish/article_60.shtml

    Bob
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    1 single B11s Please :)

    -mike
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    maybe they'll take the software naming route, B5 v1.0,
    B5 v2.0, etc... and say, v2.1 for mid-model year revision ;-)

    -Dave
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Subaru shoudl stick with names......already people(laymen) have hard time recognizing Subaru brand name........there are at least a few that i spoke with think subaru is korean.

    if they change them all, it is a problem. And I really like the names they currently have.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those B4 names B stupid.

    G3X is dumb too. Generation 3 Crossover? The Justy? Maybe call it Suzuki's Exteme Xover (SEX)!

    Enough with the Xs, people ought to be crossing them off their shopping lists!

    -juice
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I think 5EX [Suzuki Extreme Xover] is more subliminal :D

    I too prefer names over codes

    -Dave
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wonder if 5EX sells? LOL

    -juice
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    can some techies explain what's going on here for me ?

    http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0309scc_projwrx/
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