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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    The 3.0 saloon, estate and Outback tested all felt far less powerful than their theoretical output of 241bhp would suggest, without much low- and mid-range flexibility, and this in turn confused the new five-speed auto transmission, which was often in a ratio higher than suitable for quick, sporty progress. However, the 'H6' 3.0 of the previous range behaved similarly, and once warmed up was pretty hot, so we'd guess that the engine will come good a few miles down the line.
    http://www.channel4.com/apps26/4car/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=231_2&pa- ge=2&reviewid=803
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Vital statistics
    The Outback pictured here is 4730mm long, 1770mm wide and 1545mm high. The Sports Tourer estate (haven't we heard that name before?) is 4720mm long, 1730mm wide and 1470mm high, largely down to its lack of side body cladding and lower ground clearance (155mm, compared to the Outback's 200mm). The saloon's 4665mm long, 1730mm wide and 1425mm high. Load space is 433 litres in the saloon, 459 litres in the Sports Tourer and Outback (up to 1628 litres with the rear seats folded). All three models can tow up to 2000kg braked and 750kg unbraked.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Subaru built its first car, the 360, in 1958 - this was the Japanese Beetle, a bug-shaped lightweight with a tiny air-cooled two-cylinder economy engine (356cc, 16bhp). Like the Beetle, it remained in production far longer than expected, attracting an affection which meant it continued to sell right up to 1970. The first Subaru to feature a horizontally-opposed engine was the 1000 of 1966, and the first four-wheel drive, the Leone station wagon, was launched in September 1972. The Legacy made its debut in 1989, and is now entering its fourth iteration. Although a Legacy rally car was contended to some success, Subaru's sporting credentials came in the mid-'90s, when the Impreza Turbo took three WRC wins between '95-'97, a first for a Japanese team. And the Subaru name? It is the Japanese name for a star cluster in the Taurus constellation, known as Pleiades to the Greeks, and also means 'to govern' and to 'gather together' - appropriate for a subsidiary of Fuji Heavy Industries, created after World War II in a merger of six companies. The stellar connotations are, of course, reflected in the company's badge, which shows the six stars of Pleiades visible to the naked eye. And you thought that there was a Mr. Subaru...
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Value for Money
        
    If Subaru prices this Legacy similarly to the outgoing model (currently £15,750-£26,995), what value! Even entry-level models have climate control, electric windows all round, alloy wheels and a CD player. Says a lot for the car that mentally, we compare it to the Audi A4, BMW 3-Series, Saab 9-5, Merc C-Class and Lexus IS200/300, but in actual fact, it's Mondeo/Vectra money.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Mazda3 (and P5 for that matter) are much closer to the existing Impreza wagon in all it's various forms....both low-roofed sport hatch/wagons. The "kompactvan" is longer and taller, and in a different size class than the tiny xb.
    I'm not sure if Mazda4 will come either; probably only if Mazda grows the MPV to match the Sienna/Odyssey/Quest in its next generation. Then it would slot in nicely between the 3 hatch and the enlarged MPV.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Very nice pics! The interior shots look a lot more refined, and neater. I have to agree with not liking the "digital" instrument cluster. It looks out of place on a Subaru.

    Is that one or two moon roofs? It looks like it splits in half - I kind of like it.

    Looks like the 2005 is going to give me a lot to think about.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Love that new 3-spoke wheel, finally. Moonroof is sweet too.

    I don't like the gray-stained plood. Too Rendezvous-ish.

    Tranny tuning - again they are probably programming it for fuel economy to meet CAFE standards. At least give it SportShift capability.

    I can see why Ken and Ed and waiting to drive one, they look solid.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Oh yes I'm waiting to drive one! The more I read up on the new Legacy, the more I'm convinced that'll be my next Subaru. I just wish SOA would bring the GT wagon over sooner! I'll be ready to buy early next year, but the Legacy turbo isn't due out until next summer. :-(

    Those pics are great. I don't like the wood trim, especially on the shift knob. It looks a little out of place in the rather clean cut interior. The interior reminds me very much of something you would see in a VAG vehicle.

    Where are the pics of the moonroof? Are they in that link?

    Ken
  • kenokakenoka Member Posts: 218
    The moonroof on the wagons has a built in diffuser.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    juice: I can't say for certain that I've been waiting to drive an '05 Legacy. I can say it'd have to handle better than the XT and have a better power-to-weight ratio to suit my fancy.

    Not sure when I'll be ready to buy, either. Though my wife flip-flopped back last week into taking my Forester, we are now going out this weekend to test drive Highlanders and S60s. At this point I'm not up for fighting any battles; I just want her to be comfortable driving whatever she wants. IMO she's never driven anything so big and tall as a Highlander so I want her to at least try it and she if it's something she could live with for several years.

    As for me I don't need a new XT tomorrow. Hopefully next year they'll get some better color choices (gunmetal, WR Blue, even that Woodland Green would make a nice monotone) and VTD and/or Sportshift (I'm not holding my breath for those, the US still gets shafted).

    Ed

    PS: I don't like that plood either, not because of the color but because it looks like those marbleized faux finishes so popular in the late '80s - early '90s. Says "cheap Italian restaurant" to me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I can picture you (Ed) ending up in a GT wagon with 5EAT Sportshift. It should meet all your criteria.

    If the wife isn't impressed on a test drive, print out some of those pics and show it to her. She may want to wait.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Well, I've been doing some thinking about this upcoming Legacy and I think it's worth a good hard look.

    I would seriously entertain the idea of getting an auto tranny as long as SOA mates the 5EAT to the 2.5T. VDC would be a big plus too. I'd love to stick to manual trannies, but it seriously hampers any vehicle's usefulness when the wife doesn't drive stick.

    My only concern about the new Legacy is that it'll be a first year model: brand-spanking new. I didn't want to have to beta test again. ;-)

    Ken
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    http://www.subaru-global.com/topics/ms/frk2003/legacy.html

    is the link to the Subaru global website for the Frankfurt Auto Show; if you click on download and download the press information file, it has the absolute best pics, esp of the moonroofs, which are single slider over the front seat on the Legacy sedan and dual articulating pane tilt/ slide combo on the Legacy wagon and Outback, which should greatly reduce noise .
      
         These are great looking and well equipped cars....and I'm already bracing for the MSRP on the US releases. At least I'll have a few months after the 3.0R introduction to get ready for the MSRP on the 2.5GT. I'm worried the prices are going to send me back to the Forester XT search.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But Ken, you did a great job that benefitted all the rest of us! You single handedly worked out all the bugs! LOL

    You *are* the Official Subaru Crew Beta Tester! We'll call it Vice President for New Product Development, does that sound better?

    Price is a big issue. I hope they don't have another VDC-style intro, i.e. sticker shock.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Sweetsubie, you are probably reading the non-us spec legacy and outbacks. The stats on the non USDM market legacy and outbacks have ALWAYS been different than the USDM market ones. Folding powered mirrors are pretty much std in Japan, I had them in '92 on the Troopers and on my '00 Trooper as well.

    We'll see what the final weight and measures are for the USDM legacy and outbacks.

    -mike
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Mark: Thanks for the link.

    juice: Okay, okay. You've made me feel better. Actually, I shouldn't complain since I tend to like to be a sort-of-early adopter. Hey, maybe Patti can hook me up with a turbo GT before anyone else in N. America as my beta-tester fee. :-)

    mike: You're right about the folding mirrors. They've been around on JDM models for the longest I can remember. They're a necessity when squeezing by another car on narrow roads or backing into parking spaces that would make even a NYC parallel parker cringe.

    So when do we get official word of the US-spec Legacy? Is it Detroit or LA?

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Justy logo? "G3X" is very large, and the word "Justy" is very small. I bet in a couple of years, the word Justy will be dropped.

    I think you can take this to the bank: Impreza will become B5X, and so forth...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Expeditions should get them standard.

    Remember a while back I said the wife's best friend bought one? Well, she sold it.

    Why? 3 times she crashed that mirror, two times into a pole, once into the mirror of a UPS truck in a narrow street! She had literally no room! Sold it the next day, LOL.

    Ugh, Bob, Nay on the alpha-numeric names.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Euro-test of new Legacy:

    http://www.channel4.com/apps26/4car/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=231_2&re- viewid=803

    A Subie sales guy from that "other site" posted that he just saw sketches of the upcoming Subie crossover from someone within Subaru (a rep?), and that they look remarkably like the B11S/Touareg sketch that I posted the other day--especially from the front!

    It sounds like this new 7-passenger crossover will debut Subies new future styling direction.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting. I just hope they ditch the Cayenne-like rear end. The front is fine IMO. Square off the rear, with creased, boxy corners. Potentially it could look great.

    My wife tends to be conservative when it comes to styling, so she might find that crossover a bit avant-garde.

    -juice
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    Now is the time to teach your wife to drive a stick. Let her learn on the Forester, since you're getting rid of it next year anyway. Better to practice with the old clutch, than the nice new one in your '05 Legacy Turbo 5MT, right?

    Len
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    You're absoltely right, Len. It's convincing her to set aside some time on the weekend to do it is the challenge.

    Now wasn't that going to be a 6MT? ;-)

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    quote from that "other site" I mentioned a few posts back:

    My dealer rep came buy yesterday to see me bearing photos of the new 7 passenger SUV...Unfortunatly, I couldn't steal the pictures away from him to post on here, but I'll keep working on that...the pictures that have been posted are unfortunatley pretty close, as far as the front end goes. The grill design from the B11S is going to start becoming a design feature on all of the upcoming Subarus. From the side, it's almost a dead on ringer for a Nissan Murano or a Lexus RX330. The rear view reminded me of the hatch and taillights of an RX330 transplanted onto a Porsche Cayenne. The front end is pretty much identical to the yellow vehicle in the picture. I'll keep trying to get a copy to post, but I had to fight just to see these pics. I'll post more when I get a chance

    He's not fond of the B11S frontend, from what it sounds like. <sigh>

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I don't particularly care for it, to be honest.

    -Colin
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I don't find the B11S front end attractive either.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the new face, I just can't imagine it would work well with a Cayenne-like rear end. He mentions Murano and RX also, those are much nicer.

    It's really hard to imagine what it'll look like given that description.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Y'all know how I feel...lose the bathroom scale.

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Keep the scale, but feel free to diet and lose weight. :o)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that the B11S nose gives the Subaru a distinctive look. Contrary to what others have posted, I don't think it looks like an Alfa. I think it's got a lot of potential. I do think it needs to be toned down a bit.

    Speaking of which... Robert Cumberford, Automobile magazine's "Design" guru, just critiqued the B11S's styling. He too found it to be a bit awkward&#151;but with lot's of potential... I think the concept and direction are valid, but that it needs to be refined, that's all.

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
  • sube555lgtsube555lgt Member Posts: 78
    Since quite a few BMW owners don't like their new design chief, and a bunch of Subaru owners don't like ours, wanna swap! :D I like a lot of the aspects of the new BMWs contrary to a lot of their owners, I think a lot of the swooping curves and such fit better on a Subaru than a BMW anyways.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    oh my God, please no. Chris Bangle should be hanged by his toes.

    new 7 is awful. new 5 is only slightly less awful. Z4 isn't as bad in person as it looks in magazines, but still not an attractive car.

    new Legacy is tasty. B11S isn't. :)

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    over in that "other" site, in the Outback forums, some of which are new (or at least new to me).

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, Ed, I meant keep the front end styling, but make the vehicles lighter!

    I'm with Bob on this one, keeping in mind the B11S was a wild attention grabbing concept, and that production cars are always toned down at least slightly, I think the look could really work. I just hope the 7 seater get a boxy rear, not rounded like the Cayenne.

    I saw early spy pics on the BMW 3, so now all BMWs will officially be ugly.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, whatever direction Subaru chooses, it will get a bunch of flack from some folks. People will find something to criticize, you can bet on that.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    New Legacy & Outback caught in the USA!

    http://www.tunerxtreme.com/spy_photos.htm

    Bob
  • sube555lgtsube555lgt Member Posts: 78
    Yup, tipped Bob off, saw it on NASIOC first. Some mighty interesting info shown from those photos. (GT no turn signals, HIDs, front skirt may/may not be exactly same as JDM.)

    Mighty interesting. The big dilemma. What color will I want it in! :D
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    CRISPER, CLEANER, SLEEKER NEW LEGACY AND OUTBACK

    * Even more involving driving dynamics
    * Horizontally-opposed boxer engine and all-wheel drive transmission lowered, chassis thoroughly revised
    * Exterior presence and interior quality matches prestige Europeans
    * Lighter, wider, more aerodynamic new bodies
    * New 245 PS 3.0 litre six cylinder 'boxer' gives 147 mph top speed
    * More power, higher top speeds for 2.0 and 2.5 litre models
    * Dramatically better fuel economy up to 7.1 mpg improvement (Legacy 2.5i automatic)
    * Spectacular CO2 cut throughout range
    * 'Benefit-In-Kind' tax reduction Legacy 2.0i Sports Tourer down from 27 per cent to 20 per cent
    * Sweeter-sounding 'burble' from new 'constant pulsation' exhaust
    * New transmissions include five-speed auto with sequential shift for Legacy 3.0R saloon and Sports Tourer and Outback 3.0R
    * Brakes up to 50 per cent better thanks to complete revision
    * Greater ground clearance for crossover Outback up from 190 mm to 200 mm
    * Standard active front head-restraints, dual-stage front airbags, head and chest-protecting side airbags, ABS with EBD. Curtain airbags available
    * Frankfurt unveiling, prices announced nearer November on-sale date

    Crisper to drive, cleaner to run and sleeker to look at the completely new Legacy saloons, Sports Tourers and crossover Outbacks are now aimed unashamedly at leading prestige European marques.

    Legacy and Outback exterior styling has a confident new poise and presence and the interior ambience matches the best the sporting executive sector has to offer.

    Meanwhile, the symmetrical all-wheel drive driving dynamics are even more involving than ever, with the horizontally-opposed 'boxer' engines and transmissions lowered and chassis and steering thoroughly revised for an outstanding ride and handling combination.

    The brakes are up to 50 per cent more effective following a complete rethink which includes revised initial pedal stroke and a fast-reaction servo mounted so rigidly to the bulkhead that flex is virtually eliminated.

    A new 'flat-six' 245 PS powerplant is fitted to the Legacy 3.0R saloon and Sports Tourer (estate) plus the Outback 3.0R, giving top speeds of 147 and 139 mph respectively.

    These performance flagships have a new five-speed automatic transmission with sequential manual selection and are intended as a tempting trade-up for Impreza WRX owners seeking more space and refinement.

    Not to be outdone, the 2.0 litre and 2.5 litre both have more power now 138 and 165 PS giving higher top speeds, yet are considerably more economical with figures similar to mainstream two-wheel drive competitors.

    For example, the Legacy 2.5i automatic saloon is 7.1 mpg better on the Extra Urban Cycle at 46.3 mpg. Equally impressive is the Legacy 2.0i manual Sports Tourer which records 36.7 mpg on the Combined Cycle up by 5.7 mpg.

    Exhaust emissions show a spectacular reduction, meaning big savings for company car drivers. In fact some Legacys have lower penalties than diesel-engined competitors such as the VW Passat 1.9 TDi PD (130 PS) 4Motion Sport.

    The VW estate imposes a 22 per cent tax under Benefit-In-Kind rules for the 2003-2004 tax year while the Subaru Legacy manual 2.0i Sports Tourer is rated at 20 per cent seven per cent down on the old model.

    Even the much-respected new Honda Accord Tourer 2.0i-VTEC SE imposes a 25 per cent surcharge compared to the Legacy's 20 per cent despite the Subaru having the active safety advantage of symmetrical All-Wheel Drive.

    The reason for such running cost improvements are better aerodynamics of 0.28 Cd for the saloon and 0.30 Cd for Sports Tourers plus a typical weight reduction of 55 kg equivalent to that of the average woman.

    Also helping are many low-friction improvements to the engine and AWD transmission. A new 'constant pulsation' exhaust system, for example, provides more power and economy thanks to reduced back-pressure. It also produces a new, sweeter-sounding boxer 'burble'.

    Safety enhancements include active front head-restraints which reduce whiplash injuries during rear-end shunts, dual-mode front airbags which inflate according to the severity of the accident and brake and clutch pedals which effectively snap away under severe impact, protecting the driver's lower limbs.

    All Legacy and Outback models also have side airbags large enough to protect the head and chest and anti-lock brakes (ABS) with electronic brakeforce distribution (EBD). Curtain airbags are standard or optional on many models.

    In addition, both front seats have quick-reacting pre-tensioners with load-limiters, while the rear seat offers the extra protection of a centre, thee-point seat belt and for very young children two outer ISOFIX standard locking devices. This allows the easy fitment and reduced movement of a child safety seat.

    Subaru UK-inspired security measures range from deadlocks, keyless entry and shielded door locks to a sophisticated Thatcham Category One alarm and immobiliser. These initiatives plus easier-to-repair accident-damage parts should result in competitive insurance premiums.

    Prices will be announced nearer the November on-sale date, while the new car's first European showing is at the Frankfurt Motor Show (Press Day 9 September).

    Legacy Saloon And Sports Tourer Line-Up:
    2.0i manual/auto
    2.0i S manual/auto (curtain airbags/sunroof)
    2.5i manual/auto
    2.5i SE manual/auto (curtain airbags/sunroof/leather trim)
    3.0R auto
    2.5i SEn auto (plus satellite navigation)
    3.0Rn auto (plus satellite navigation)

    Outback Line-Up:
    2.5i manual/auto
    2.5i SE manual/auto(curtain airbags/sunroof/leather trim)
    3.0R auto
    3.0Rn auto(plus satellite navigation)

    THE NEW LEGACY AND OUTBACK IN FULL:
    Confident, Dynamic Exterior With An Interior Ambience To Match
    Subaru makes no apology for targeting prestigious European sporting marques with the confident new styling and welcoming soft-touch interior of its new Legacy and Outback.

    All models have a strong presence thanks to a deep grille and projector-headlamps with circular dips further emphasising the low centre-of-gravity of the 'boxer' engine.

    Body width is increased by 35 mm with a greater curvature to the shoulder area between the door handles and side glass. This, together with wider tracks which 'flesh-out' the wheelarches, creates a stable, squat, muscular stance exploited to great effect by certain German manufacturers.

    Equally, the front wings have more curvature at their leading edge, while strong bonnet crease lines swoop down to the front bumper. The side view is also dynamic, being more curved from the A-posts back and the 3-D rear tail-lamp treatment is cleaner and fuss-free by avoiding quickly outmoded gimmicks.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ultra-low Cd figures of 0.28 for the saloon and 0.30 for the Sports Tourer (Outback 0.34) prove the worth of such detailing, helped by special engine undercovers, spoilers and wheel flaps.

    Other distinctive Subaru design features are frameless doors and estate side glass which flows uninterrupted rearwards of the A-posts, now capped by a flush-fitting tailgate spoiler. New styling signatures include side indicators embedded in the bottom of the door mirrors and large left and right exhaust tailpipes on all models except the 2.0i.

    Emphasising their sporty styling, most models have larger wheels and tyres with, for example the Legacy 2.5i now featuring 215/45ZR tyres on 7JJ x 17 ins alloy wheels.

    The higher-riding Outback crossover has a cleaner look than the previous model, relying less on body cladding to communicate its
    toughness and all-terrain ability.

    Nevertheless, the bumpers are more substantial and wheelarches have flared protectors linked by side protectors running from sill-height to a lower point than before. This makes the body look deeper and the car chunkier, further emphasising its rugged design brief. The Outback also has a bigger front grille and different arched bonnet with twin grooves.

    Tactile, 'Surprise And Delight' Interior Meanwhile, the interior on all models benefits from soft-touch surfaces with a sporty, quality feel backed by damped stalks and buttons.

    For example, the fascia, door trim, roof lining and grab-handles all benefit from new materials with extra padding and texturing after
    careful study of premium-quality European marques. Colour-matching of the various components is extremely precise for a feeling of harmony.

    Equally, the interior design is intended to create a functional,
    driver-focussed atmosphere with many flush surfaces. The steering wheel is smaller than before and even the 2.0i has sports front seats with supportive side bolsters.

    'Surprise and delight' items include especially tactile and solid-feeling interior door-pulls and on turning the ignition key electro-luminescent instruments which light up and arc round to their maximum settings on the sporty 3.0R.

    Never a problem on the previous model, interior space is nevertheless increased, with an extra 9 mm of shoulder room, 11 mm of elbow room and front seats which slide 3 mm further forward and 7.5 mm more rearward. In addition, the entire driver's seat can be lifted 40 mm and the steering wheel now tilts through a 38 mm range.

    Lighter, Stronger Body
    Unusually for a new model, the new Legacy and Outback have lighter bodies with the weight of most models reduced by around 55 kg. Combined with better aerodynamics and more efficient engines, both performance and economy are improved.

    Weight savings are achieved thanks to extensive use of high-strength, high-tensile steel panels. In fact their 45 per cent adoption is the highest ever achieved in a production car. Also aiding lightness with strength are tailored blanks which are metals of varying thickness, mash-seam-welded together.

    In addition, all bonnets are aluminium as are the tailgates on Sports Tourers. This also lowers the polar-moment-of inertia by reducing the weight at the car's extremities, boosting handling agility. Aluminium is also adopted for the suspension arms and steering support beam.

    By only strengthening where needed, body bending rigidity is increased by 14 per cent, body twisting rigidity boosted by 5 per cent and front lateral bending rigidity enhanced by 10 per cent. The front suspension mounts are 30 per cent stronger and certain areas of the rear suspension by as much as 300 per cent.

    Subaru considered then quickly rejected the adoption of an all-aluminium body. Its application was considered inelegant,
    extravagant and heavy-handed. Far better, engineers felt, to use multi-materials, precisely matched to different areas of the car.
     
    'Boxer' Boost
    All Engines More Powerful And Efficient Subaru's much-envied horizontally-opposed 'boxer' engine range enters a new phase in its development with the new Legacy and Outback, now offering the same fuel economy and emissions of two-wheel drive cars but with twice the character and a much lower centre-of-gravity for agile handling.

    Extensive revisions see 80 per cent of the components changed. Typical examples include hollow camshafts, lighter cylinder heads with optimised intake/exhaust airflow, thinner yet more precisely machined cylinder liners and new crankshafts with sintered journals.

    The result is increased refinement, reduced noise and more power with drastically reduced fuel consumption and emissions.

    In addition, a new electronic fly-by-wire throttle control system gives instant response to even the slightest accelerator movement while also improving economy.

    'Constant-Pulsation' For A Sweeter Sound
    However, one of the most significant changes is a totally new exhaust system which greatly enhances low to mid-speed torque and gives higher power outputs with reduced noise.

    Called 'constant pulsation', the system uses equal length exhaust pipes which avoids gas flow interference. On four-cylinder models the pipes are of 4-2-1 configuration and on the new 3.0 litre 'flat six' they follow a 3-port pattern.

    A by-product of 'constant pulsation' is a totally new 'boxer' engine sound which is still distinctive but lighter and sweeter with reduced low-frequency 'burble'.

    The 'Boxer' 2.0 And 2.5 Litre Engines
    Both 2.0 and 2.5 litre engines are all-alloy, horizontally-opposed four-cylinder units tuned for both strong low and mid-range torque yet blessed with exceptional durability and an 'unburstable' ability to rev.

    Featuring a single overhead camshaft per bank, the 2.0 litre has a bore and stroke of 92 x 75 mm for a 1,994 cc capacity. The 2.5 litre has a bore and stroke of 99.5 x 79 mm for a 2,457 cc swept volume. Both run on 10:1 compression ratios.

    Power for the 2.0 litre as fitted to the Legacy 2.0i and 2.0i S saloon and Sports Tourer is now 138 PS at the same 5,600 rpm as before - an increase of 13 PS. Torque has also increased, now being 137.9 lb.ft at 4,400 rpm.

    The 2.5 litre engine as fitted to the Legacy 2.5i and 2.5i SE saloon and Sports Tourer plus the Outback now produces 165 PS at the same 5,600 rpm a 9 PS increase. Torque is also up at 166.7 lb.ft at 4,400 rpm.

    Performance examples include a 122 mph top speed for the Legacy 2.0i manual saloon with a 0-60 mph time of 10.9 seconds. The 2.5 litre equivalent has a 133 mph top speed and a 0-60 mph time of 8.9 seconds.

    Even more impressive are fuel consumption and emissions. The Legacy 2.5i automatic saloon is 7.1 mpg better on the Extra Urban Cycle at 46.3 mpg and now produces 193 g/km of CO2. This results in a reduction from 28 per cent to 22 per cent in Benefit-In-Kind company car taxation for the 2003-2004 tax year.

    The Legacy 2.0 litre manual Sports Tourer also returns 46.3 mpg on
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    flatbed towtruck for half that distance. Gotta be km/g, doesn't it?

    Jim

    edit: Or is this that Imperial Gallons thing that always gets me?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Legacy 2.0 litre manual Sports Tourer also returns 46.3 mpg on the Extra Urban Cycle and 36.7 mpg Combined the latter a 5.6 mpg improvement. Its CO2 figure of 183 g/km qualifies it for the 20 per cent tax band lower than for some diesels.

    New 245 PS Flat-Six For Range-Topping 3.0R
    Most spectacular of all the new 'boxer' engines is the 245 PS six-cylinder 3.0 litre unit offered in both the Legacy 3.0R saloon and Sports Tourer and Outback 3.0R. A new 5-speed automatic transmission is standard.

    Developed from the engine fitted to the previous Outback H6-3.0, the new unit is 36 PS more powerful with 11 lb.ft greater pulling power.

    Featuring twin overhead camshafts per bank, maximum power is 245 PS at 6,600 rpm with a solid 219 lb. ft of torque at 4,200 rpm. The bore and stroke are 89.2 x 80 mm respectively and the unit runs on a 10.7:1 compression ratio.

    When fitted to the Legacy saloon and Sports Tourer, top speed is a stunning 147 mph with 0-60 mph times of 7.9 and 8.0 seconds respectively. The new Outback 3.0R has a 139 mph top speed and covers the 0-60 mph dash in 8.1 seconds.

    Despite their high performance, fuel economy is slightly better than the previous H6, with, for example, 20.8/38.7 and 29.4 mpg for the Legacy 3.0R saloon. This model's CO2 emissions of 229 g/km result in a Benefit-In-Kind tax banding of 29 per cent.

    Improvements over the previous H6-3.0 engine include Active Valve Control for the intake air plus variable valve lift. The engine also has a fast-response electronic throttle, re-profiled pistons, a lighter, quieter crankshaft and 3-port, 6-2-1 exhaust system which boosts power and lowers emissions.

    New, Driver-Focussed Manual And Automatic Transmission
    Whether as a manual or automatic, all transmissions have been developed to provide maximum driver involvement especially the new five-speed automatic fitted to the Legacy and Outback 3.0R models.

    This has a sequential mode allowing the driver to shift up or down manually via the lever, providing maximum enjoyment and control such as when travelling swiftly on a winding country road. Its variable AWD torque-split is balanced to provide an initial rear-wheel bias for extra handling agility.

    Like the new, lighter four-speed automatic available on the 2.0 and 2.5 litre models, a special sports mode enhances the full-time
    adaptive control, automatically preventing up-changes during braking.

    It also senses when the driver wants rapid acceleration, holding on to the lower gears for longer. As a further aid to driver satisfaction, lateral G-sensors detect severe cornering and again prevent any unwanted up-shifts when in sports mode.

    The Legacy and Outback 2.0 and 2.5 litre models now have new, lighter, quieter and slicker-shifting five-speed manual gearboxes with dual-mass flywheels for smoothness.

    The manual's low-inertia internal components and low-viscosity oil give an even lighter change with enhanced fuel consumption. In addition, the rear differential is a new low-friction design.

    As with the previous model, all manual Legacy Sports Tourers and Outbacks have a particularly useful dual-range capability permitting five lower alternatives to the standard gears. This can be selected on the move and is appreciated by those towing and in low-speed manoeuvres.

    Already Outstanding Chassis Thoroughly Revised
    Finely-damped, long-travel suspension with low unsprung weight and 'playful', interactive handling backed by full-time symmetrical AWD have always been a characteristic of the previous Legacy and Outback.

    When launched in 1998, the cars enjoyed a completely new platform with MacPherson strut front and a compact and sophisticated multi-link rear suspension which did not intrude into the load area.

    Now, the new model receives a host of improvements aimed at providing outstanding stability and driver involvement, allowing the range to compete with the best of the prestige executive-class competition.

    * Even lower engine and transmission
    For the new model, the horizontally-opposed engine has been lowered by 22 mm at the front and the front differential centre by 10 mm. This not only reduces the already low centre of gravity but cuts frictional losses and aids refinement by making the AWD drivetrain even straighter.

    * Wider tracks, lower roll centres
    Enhanced cornering grip and reduced body roll are the result of lower front and rear roll centres and wider front and rear tracks. All models have a 35 mm wider front track, while the Legacy saloon has a 35 mm wider rear track with the other models growing by 30 mm.

    * Reinforced rear suspension mounts
    The multi-link rear suspension has revised geometry, a new subframe with more rigid mountings for reduced road noise and greater straight-line stability.

    * Sharper turn-in, more front-end grip
    Even better initial turn-in when entering a bend and greater front-end grip are the results of a thoroughly revised front suspension and steering system.

    Front wheel castor has been increased to an unusually large 6 degrees which keeps the loaded outside wheel more in contact with the road while a more rigidly-mounted steering box and stronger front cross member make the steering more responsive when initially turned.

    The conventional hydraulic power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering has also been modified and now has a special damper valve which reduces kick-back during hard cornering on uneven surfaces.

    Increased response to initial steering movements is aided by a new low-hysteresis cannon mount for the steering gearbox plus smaller-diameter steering wheels which are down from 385 mm to 375 mm in diameter.

    Other changes include improvements to the multiple-layer front and rear shock-absorbers which give optimum damping according to speed and road surface, enhancing ride comfort by reducing pitch, sway and float.

    Refinement is generally upgraded thanks to lighter, low-friction AWD components with changes to the front driveshafts, differential mountings and propellor shaft.

    * Bigger wheels and tyres
    Most models enjoy larger wheels and tyres which enhance cornering and braking grip and give a sportier appearance. For example, the Legacy 2.0i now has 205/55R 16 tyres fitted on 6.5 x 16 ins alloys, while the Legacy 2.5i enjoys 215/45 R 17 tyres on 7 x 17 ins alloys.

    Drastically Improved Braking System
    The new Legacy and Outback's braking system has been drastically improved, being up to 50 per cent more effective.

    It follows a complete upgrade which includes a change to the pedal lever ratio and master cylinder which has a reduced diameter and longer stroke. This improves the initial braking force and control of the stroke once the pedal is pressed.

    In addition, the new fast-reaction servo is attached to the bulkhead by a new technique using a tie rod which virtually eliminates flexing.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Naturally, all models have the latest four-sensor anti-lock braking systems (ABS) with electronic brakeforce distribution (EBD) and
    compact new lightweight sensors for greater accuracy and control.

    Standard AWD
    Naturally No Subaru would be complete without its rally-honed symmetrical all-wheel drive system which feeds full-time power to all four wheels.

    Once either the front or the rear of the car begins to slide, torque is rapidly fed to the axle with the most grip. And in the case of the
    Outback, the rear axle also has a limited-slip differential, allowing torque to be shared between both rear wheels.

    Unlike bulky off-roaders with their inelegant 4WD systems and power-sapping transfer boxes or certain sport utilities with transverse-mounted engines and gearboxes and, again, inefficient transfer boxes Subaru's AWD system is simple and efficient.

    Because the 'boxer' engine is in-line with the gearbox which is, in turn, in-line with the prop shaft and rear differential, frictional losses are kept to a minimum. In addition, the drive shafts are of equal length for a 'pure' division of power.

    In addition, on the new Legacy 2.5i SE auto, 3.0R and Outback 3.0R, Subaru Vehicle Dynamics Control offers even more active safety and handling fun.

    VDC uses sensors in all four wheels to detect slip. It also relies on sensors to register front to rear G-forces, side-to-side G-forces and steering wheel G-sensors to detect sudden swerves called 'yaw-rate'.

    The result of all this data is for the engine power to be reduced and braking applied to whatever wheel can best help the driver escape a collision.

    However, apart from having the option of switching off SVDC, the system is set up to allow 'playful' yet safe rear-wheel-biased
    handling for the more experienced driver.

    High Equipment Levels Throughout
    Every new Subaru Legacy and Outback has generous equipment levels with practical features according to the model's likely use, such as self-levelling rear suspension and a rear limited-slip differential for Outbacks.

    All models including the entry-level Legacy 2.0i boast: AWD with ABS and EBD, climate control air-conditioning, alloy wheels, radio/CD players, front and side airbags, four electric windows and remote central-locking with Thatcham Category One alarm/immobiliser. Other highlights include full leather seat and door trim for Legacy 2.5i SE and Outback SE models plus heated front seats, door mirrors and windscreen de-icer, curtain airbags, electrically-powered sun-roofs, cruise control and an 8-way electrically-operated driver's seat.

    The new range-topping Legacy and Outback 3.0R models also have features such as: Subaru Vehicle Dynamics Control, rear limited-slip differential, 6-stacker CD system, 8-way electrically-operated front seats, wood fascia and door trim panels, leather-wrapped steering wheel with audio controls, electro-luminescent instruments and premium cut-pile carpets.

    Supreme Customer Care
    Owning a Subaru Legacy or Outback is like being a member of an exclusive club in the UK thanks to a network of over 100 experienced, 'down to earth' and approachable dealers.

    The warranty itself is one of the best in the industry, offering a three year/60,000 mile Cover plus three years' paintwork and now 12 years' anti-corrosion cover.

    This is in addition to three years' free membership of Subaru Assistance a comprehensive home and roadside repair and recovery package throughout the UK and Europe, administered by Mondial Assistance.
  • als5als5 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 1987 Subaru and the exhaust started to lesk and I was loosing some power. I brought it in to the Subaru dealer and they repaired the exhaust for $1200. Then they told me that #1 and3 cylinders had zero compression. I chose not to leave it there because I felt they could have identified the problem before I invested the 1200. I am ano old car buff and think I would like to tackle this problem my self. The car never gave me any indication. My question is can I remove the head without taking the engine out of the car. They think I have stacked piston rings. I dont buy this and think it migh be a head gasket. I have verified the low compression.
    I am heaavy into rebuilding a 1971 240z and am holding off on the subaru. T rest of the car is mint.
    Thanks
    AL Squillante
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think the above should be posted in the Subaru problems thread, or Cafe thread, and not here...

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Thanks juice.

    Test drove some Volvos yesterday - will discuss in Cafe later.

    Ed
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/e_consumption.htm

    an imperial gallon is also 20% more than a US gallon
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    but even with that and the 20% larger gallon, I don't see nearly 50 mpg. Maybe so, at those speeds listed it must be just above idle. I hope they don't pretend that that is an accurate representation of city/urban driving.

    Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yikes, that disguise makes the Legacy looks like an Avalon from the side. Funny how a subtle styling feature on the C-pillar can make the undisguised car look so much better.

    Dramatically better fuel economy sounds good to me!

    They're trying to address complaints of spongy brake pedal feel, too.

    120 lbs lighter, now you're talking. A turbo should step out quite nicely.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    BTW, they are in CAlifor

    it is nice to see actual pics rather than the showroom ones. i like esp. OUtback the way it looks.
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