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Comments
Odd that the hatch is $500 more when the wagon used to cost $500 less in 2002.
They ought to have the mounting points, at least.
That makes we want to check the wife's Forester. Maybe that's why body roll increased?
Interestingly, however, when you pull down the full spec sheet, it only lists a front stabilizer bar for all the Imprezas except the 2.5GT.
This would explain some things - body roll is outta control on this car. I am going to get the rear from the WRX installed at my first service, and get the front one upgraded as well if the WRX sway at the front is larger than the one on the OBS.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Bummer for us wagon lovers, though.
My mom has a Fit (previous gen), and it's great around town, but on the highway it's buzzy and out of place. My brother's Civic feels like a luxury car compared to mom's Fit.
==============
I have a 2008 Base Fit (previous gen) too and even though a bit buzzy, that Honda engine can cruise all day long at 80mph (and effortlessly go to 90mph and beyond if needed).....while yielding nearly 40mpg. And if you are able to drive at a constant speed of around 60mph on the highway, the mileage dramatically rises up to nearly 50mpg (the EPA numbers look hopelessly out of place here). My REX is lucky to get into the upper 20s under any driving conditions.
Seems like the Fit's 5-speed Automatic is not as miserly with using fuel as my stick version. Also, the wider tires of the "sport" version is also not too conducive to getting the mileage my narrower-tired "base" version does.
I drive the Yaris and the Nissan Venza too, during business trips and I can state that those don't yield the rock solid feel or confidence the Fit does.
The Venza positively feels cheap and not as well put together. And even after a week of driving around (during my trip), the Venza still does not feel good, which means it is just not a matter of acclimation either. The gas mileage is also poor. I would never buy the Venza as a personal car.
The Yaris on the other hand, even though an econo product, feels well put together and yields great mileage too and I adjusted well to it - even though I was glad to be back in my Fit after the trip was done and I was back home.
I am seriously considering the Tribeca 7-seater as my next car but I am not too impressed with the interior space packaging, frankly. The new Outback is just a couple of Inches shorter overall than the Tribeca and has loads more room in the backseat than the Tribeca. If they can introduce a longer wheelbase model of the Outback (and increase the overall length by a 1/2 foot more), and increase the load rating of the Outback, the Tribeca will no longer be needed. In fact, the 5-seater version of the Tribeca has zero reason to exist with the Outback being present.
Currently, the Tribeca is rated to carry a payload of 1500 lbs, which is considerably more than the Outback (900lbs) and any such long wheelbase Outback has to match that. Call the longer wheelbase model of the Outback as the Outback-X (X for eXtra-large), to leverage off of the "Outback" branding and kill off the slow-selling Tribeca. JMHO, of course.
I have been noticing the Fits lately around here (Fairbanks) as well. They seem to be all over the place, where I did not notice more than one or two even a year ago. With a 5-door model, one would make a great replacement for my Escort when the time comes (hopefully a while down the road!). Perhaps their availability as used cars will be decent by then.
They make those in Brazil now.
The last page raises the possibility of more powerful diesels in the future, including an H6 diesel.
Bob
It looks like a great engine. I will be curious to try it out when it does arrive in our market.
Mercedes and VW put diesel sixes in the ML and Touareg.
Frankly, I think a 3.0 H6 diesel would be perfect for a premium level Outback and Legacy, if the Tribeca disappears. Just hope they can keep the price down, as that could be a pricy engine.
Bob
It's also going to be sold as a 6-passenger, not 7-passenger model, as they also sell the 7-passenger Tribeca.
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/430...vember-launch/
Bob
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/43050/2010-subaru-liberty-exiga-set-for-novembe- r-launch/
They could bring that here to compete with the Kia Rondo and Mazda5, though I doubt they could come close in price to those. My guess is that's why they use the Liberty name, when it shares more with the lower priced Forester.
Plus, volumes would be very small, and it would be the final pin in the Tribeca's coffin.
3 observations:
DVD player as standard
Neat.
seatback-mounted stowable tray tables
Also neat.
the centre lap belt that’s fitted to Japanese Exigas will be deleted
Dumb. Either replace the bench with 2 captain's chairs, or provide a 3rd seat belt. That makes no sense at all because someone may sit in the seat yet there is no belt!
Bob
As it stands, in Australia, it is a 4+2.
Don't bring it here as is because Subaru would have yet another not-small-but-not-big-either vehicle. They're ALL like that.
The Impreza should be smaller, the Tribeca should be bigger. They need to increase the spread of their models in terms of size.
I like the efficient, square-back shape of the Exiga, but it should be Tribeca sized and then some.
I personally think the Exiga is right sized. As it stands, the *new* Legacy/Outback is roughly the same size as the Tribeca (3 inches shorter but that is hardly noticeable once you park both vehicles beside each other). And if they can make the interior packaging more efficient, I can see how this could be well received - even here in the US.
This may not compete with something like the Highlander or the Honda Pilot, but then again, not many people need such massive vehicles either.
Subaru has 782 models with an overall length between 175" and 192".
That is a very, very small spread.
No truly small car. No truly big car. Not one in either segment.
But lots of models for a very low volume producer!
The Tribeca needs to grow 1-2 sizes or don't even bother.
Or upsize the Exiga and sell that instead.
Or better yet keep it the same size, reduce its weight and add the center 2nd row seat belt. Corporate Average Fuel Economy rules will dictate the direction of new models. Several years ago Fugi did a survey on the market interest in a 4-passenger super light (2,000 lb.) AWD model with a 2 liter 180 hp normally aspirated engine. Response was evidently not positive. I personally replied to the survey with a negative for safety reasons. If safety is not of interest, a Honda Fit is now available.
Good point, but remember they will be categorized and rated by size. Wheelbase and track are what counts.
Yet another reason for a bigger Exiga (or Tribeca).
I doubt safety is related purely to size per se. The Honda Fit or the Toyota Yaris or the Mini Cooper etc., is as safe as any other car on the road, since most accidents are single vehicle accidents where someone has a rollover or hits a pole or a curb or something like that. Also, in mult-vehicle collisions, where a big SUV does actually hit a car head-on, it does not matter whether it is a Honda Fit or whether it is a Subaru Legacy, since the bumper heights of (most) SUVs are not car-friendly and simply ride over the bumpers of all cars.
Bottomline, opting for an armored car just to feel "safe" is not a viable option. As long as the car can dynamically move out of the way of most situations and as long as the driver is alert, accidents are not things that happen as a matter of course. Unlike some really cheap and lousy designs, most Japanese cars are extremely well engineered from the perspective of safety. JMHO, of course.
The Fit doesn't have enough power to get you in a lot of trouble.
Now that could mean that they might lose some sales to folks looking for a large minivan sized vehicle but then again, the question is, has Subaru been successful in marketing/selling/designing vehicles larger than say an Outback, in the wider marketplace ? The big guns will simply eat them alive and my personal opinion is that Subaru would be wise to steer clear from that space and focus on what they do best, which is designing/marketing well-designed not-so-large cars with AWD and their signature elements like a Boxer engine etc. When they start straying from that basic concept, they lose focus and direction and the big guns will simply elbow them aside.
Subaru needs to focus on what they do best and do it very, very well and leave the other market segments to others who do those better. Trying to go toe-to-toe with a Honda or a Toyota in say the Minivan segment, will simply result in 100s of millions of R&D dollars wasted and potentially leading to a bankruptcy.
Yeah, but that could also be due to the type of people who drive the Camaros and the Mustangs, vs the ones who drive the Miata. Young kids who typically comprise the Camaro/Mustang crowd for the most part, might indulge in driving habits that a typical Miata driver might never do.....which in turn results in accidents and injuries.
Recently, on Nasioc there was a link posted of an article in the Wall street journal, which showed that the 05-07 Subaru WRX had the most amounts of accidents among all vehicles.....while at the same time, the Subaru Outback having one of the least accidents among all vehicles. Just shows what kind of drivers drive the WRX vs the Outbacks. Obviously both vehicles are engineered to be equally safe, just that the profile of the person behind the wheel is significantly different.
I think the Suburban is a foot and a half larger than the Tahoe, and the Tahoe is already full-sized!
Edit: I looked it up - 20.4" longer!
Look how many people are cross-shopping the Forester and Outback (everyone, basically). Outback used to outsell the Forester, not any more, and the Forester is cheaper.
So Subaru risks having its customer slide down the price scale to get an Impreza wagon, which isn't that much smaller than a Tribeca, really.
Good point. At least they are cross-shopping between the Forester and the Outback to end up with a Subaru, than cross-shopping between the Forester and the CRV or RAV4 to end up with say a CRV or RAV4.
I think the Suburban is a foot and a half larger than the Tahoe, and the Tahoe is already full-sized!
These very same Tahoes and Suburbans were lying unsold for months at a time and the trade-in values had shrunk to literally nothing, when the gas prices touched the skies. That was just a precursor of what is coming. The next one will be significantly worse and these Tahoe types will go extinct before too long.
When the Subaru managers are saying that going forward they would be content with their largest vehicle being the Outback, they are looking ahead well into the future and seeing the clear writing on the wall that big, gargantuan dinosaurs like the Tahoe or Suburban are slated to become historical relics - sooner rather than later.
So Subaru risks having its customer slide down the price scale to get an Impreza wagon, which isn't that much smaller than a Tribeca, really.
If you sit inside a new Impreza vs a *new* Outback/Legacy, you will realise how much more roomy is the *new* Outback when compared to an Impreza. The Impreza feels really small, while the Outback is almost limo-like. The previous generation Outback/Legacy did not have much room inside - I agree.
That is not necessarily a problem for the owners of the pre 2010 Outbacks like me. I have sat in the new Impreza wagon and found the passenger room about the same as my 3.0R Outback. When it is time to trade, the Impreza Outback Sport wagon will be a possibility. Bigger than what I have now is not attractive. Obviously the Forester's greater inside room and seating height with a decrease in overall length is still better.
Compared to the pre-2010 Outback/legacy models, they not only made a HUGE increase in the interior space (especially the room in the rear - 4 inches of additional legroom which makes the rear actually inhabitable) but also the way the interior space is available (by shifting to the more dynamic double wishbone suspension in the rear, from the former multi-links, they increased the usability of the area available in the rear).
And all of these was done while maintaining the vehicle' weight at the former version's levels and with no increase in overall length, unlike what many competitors do where there is typically a massive increase in weight in every succeeding generation, when the interior room increases. The transmissions available (CVT etc) and fuel efficiency numbers also went up in the new models and Fuel efficiency is definitely a big factor as the days go by.
All in all, I believe the new 2010 Outback/legacys have made quantum leaps forward and no steps backward when compared to the prior generation, unless you are talking about its "looks", which is anyway a subjective criteria.
The point, though, was that Subaru's 17" spread is nothing. The 'burbs is a whopping 70" longer than an Aveo. That's an extreme example, but it gets the idea across.
The Outback doesn't feel THAT roomy. Both seat 5. I think the new Impreza has adequate room, the Forester a bit more than adequate, the Outback a bit more than adequate. Size medium, medium plus, and medium plus.
You can have any size Subaru you want as long as it's Medium.
I don't consider the Outback large (even if the EPA does) because that middle seat isn't really wide enough and the hump kills legroom, so the 5th person will never be comfortable. Not to mention it's hard and not accomodating, same on the Legacy by the way.
Compare that to the full-size comfort of the 3 individual seats in the 2nd row of a Sienna or an Expedition - not even close.
Sure gas won't get any cheaper, but remember the CAFE regs will be size-dependent, and if Subaru sells nothing more than 192" long they will simply be at a competitive disadvantage.
Personally, I think 200" is a sweet spot - not too big, yet big enough to offer massive interior space. My Sienna offers TWICE the interior space of the biggest Subaru (148 cubic feet of cargo). That's insane.
You can have any size Subaru you want as long as it's Medium.
Again, have you sat in the *new* 2010 Outback or are you basing your statements on sitting in the 2009 Outback ? The 2009 Outback had more room than the Impreza but the backseat was still a bit tight for taller folks. The new 2010 Outback on the other hand, has 4 inches (1/3 of a foot) of *additional* leg-room in the rear, when compared to the previous 2009 version.....and that difference is when comparing the 2010 Outback to the 2009 Outback and not between the 2010 Outback to the 2009/2010 Impreza, where the difference is even larger.
That 4 inches of additional legroom (over the 2009 Outback) and the addtional shoulder room is VERY easily noticeable. When we bring the luggage compartment size between the Impreza and the 2010 Legacy Outback into the mix, the difference is so noticeable that it is not even funny....the Impreza has 19cu.ft with the seats up and 44.4 with the rear seats down, while the Outback's corresponding numbers are 34.3cu.ft with the seats up and 71.3cu.ft with the seats down.
So if the 2010 Outback is a "medium plus" (by your definition), then the Impreza is an "extra-small".
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-...awd-prius.html
The Gen III just came out this year, why would toyota be talking about an AWD Prius?
Thats because it is not Toyota!!! The new AWD prius will be called the SUbaru Prius, thats right Subaru..
For many that do not know, Toyota owns 16% of the Japanese Company Subaru. As a matter of fact Subaru has the worlds best AWD system and the Boxer engine, which toyota bought from Subaru 2 years ago.
So for the new prius, it will be an AWD vehicle with a lithium ion battery.
--For the record-- I sell subaru, so i have been to meeting on this vehicle already* They say it will be out by 2012 or 2013--
We all know that Subaru is working on a hybrid. We also know that Toyota is rumored to be spreading the "Prius" name to other Toyota models. So whether this guy has some of his facts mixed up, who knows; but some of what you read here could be true.
Bob
Unless, of course, they are going to combine both diesel and hybrid into same car. Yeah, deam on...
As far our outback keep making average 24 mpg we will be driving it until it falls apart. That AWD and reliability was the real reason I bought one.
It may not get the fuel mileage of a FWD hybrid, but it will still get very good fuel mileage.
Bob
Yes, I have sat in the new Outback...same story. It's a bit wider and the extra leg room for the rear passengers is nice, but there is no real seating for five, unless they are kids. Put one decent sized adult or teenager in the back, and the situation gets mighty uncomfortable. What I have seen from a lot of families is to own two vehicles: one small and extremely fuel efficient (e.g., Prius/Civic Hybrid), and one large (minivan) to carry the kids, their friends, and other stuff. I am desperately trying to stay out of a minivan but I may have to succumb.
The interesting thing is that I recently visited a Subaru dealer to see the new Outback, yet I was drawn more to the Forester. It's now about the same size as my 2001 Outback, and carries the same number of people and even more stuff. If I wanted a larger vehicle, I'd want one that gave me a bigger payoff in terms of person-hauling and stuff-hauling capacity. Ironically, a Tribeca with a wheel base that is four inches longer than the current model would be perfect; however, I suspect that the Tribeca will not survive beyond 2010.
wilbur
Same thing for me. I even ended up buying one.
The very nice cupholder and armrest on the Forester attest to the fact that it is primarily a four-person car.
The 05-09 was smaller than the Forester. The 2010 is about the same as the new Forester.
Sure there is more headroom and legroom to spare, but it's not really put to much use, and the middle 2nd row seat is still a penalty box, so it only seats 4 comfortably.
wilbur wrote:
I am desperately trying to stay out of a minivan but I may have to succumb.
I did in 2007, bought a Sienna, and today I would still buy another Sienna. Subaru simply doesn't offer a large vehicle, period. We only have 2 kids but our nanny cannot get comfy in a single Subaru as the 5th passenger, at any price!
5 people. Not 8, just 5.
Go sit on the hump of a new Outback, yes brand new. Within 15 seconds you'll be begging to get off.
So, taken FWIW, I think they are considering this, but a few contradictions stand out to me:
* Toyota has said Li-ion batteries are not yet ready for prime time
* Toyota's AWD hybrids are through-the-road and have no driveshaft, hence that would kill the whole symmetry angle Subaru has been playing for years
http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=19691#article
This is a UK web site.
Bob
At least that won't happen in the US market.
Bob