Subaru Crew - Future Models II

1420421423425426446

Comments

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    did someone already mention this?

    Subaru plans hybrid in 2012

    October 26, 2009 - 12:01 am ET

    TOKYO -- Subaru, which showed a concept hybrid vehicle at the Tokyo Motor Show, will add a hybrid powertrain to an existing model in 2012.

    But Ikuo Mori, president of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., maker of Subaru cars, wouldn't say when the hybrid vehicle will go on sale in the United States.

    Speaking on the sidelines of the show, Mori said the car will help Subaru meet tougher U.S. fuel economy and emissions rules that begin in the 2016 model year.

    Mori declined to say which model will offer the hybrid powertrain but suggested it will be a small vehicle. He said the hybrid system will showcase typical Subaru driving characteristics but didn't say whether it will have all-wheel drive.

    .....Subaru has been developing its own hybrid drivetrain based on technology from Toyota Motor Corp., which owns 16.5 percent of Fuji Heavy.


    http://www.autonews.com/article/20091026/ANA03/310269974/1180

    I loved the concept car, but this says they expect to add hybrid guts to an existing model. If it is a small car, it must be the Impreza right? Or maybe they plan to introduce something smaller than the Impreza in the U.S. and offer THAT as a hybrid?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,707
    They could be, but then it would not be adding the hybrid system to an existing model, would it? :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Well, I was thinking it could be an existing model somewhere else on the globe, which they will introduce to the U.S. when they go hybrid.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Me too, except the part about it costing 20% more.

    With the FT86 starting at $20k, figure a well equipped model will end up running $25 grand or so. That means the Subaru version would push $30k.

    I guess that's OK if we're talking about a 2.0l STI engine. The base model may overlap too much with the current WRX, though. I'm hoping it'll slot beneath the WRX in price.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm not sure the WRX will be hurt that much. There are some people who need/want a 4-door sports car. So for them this coupe will not cut it.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When the RS sedan came out it outsold the coupe by a wide margin. That's why they dropped it.

    We'll see. I'm sure there is pent-up demand for a sleek 2 door Subaru.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    This coupe will attract a different audience. Yeah, they'll lose some WRX sales, but there's room for both the WRX and this.

    Bob
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,707
    Agreed. The WRX is a rally car, whereas this is definitely a road car, like the G37X. I also think that the audience looking at this car will, for the most part, not be the same one considering a WRX/STi.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    This coupe will attract a different audience. Yeah, they'll lose some WRX sales, but there's room for both the WRX and this.

    Agreed, it'll expand the line more than cannabalize it.
  • nickelnickel Member Posts: 147
    So Acura is bringing the euro Accord wagon, and will make company to BMW, Cadillac, and so on.
    I don't need an OB, I already had one. What I need is a Turbo Wagon, that I can go to ski resort or backpacking, at the same time than enjoying the AWD 6 manual.
    SOA, are you hearing?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, keep in mind the V6 TSX is mid $30s. A wagon will cost a grand more. Add another $2 grand for SH-AWD. That's $38 grand or so for a V6 AWD.

    I do think it looks GREAT, though. Absolutely puts the ZD-X to shame.
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    That's $38 grand or so for a V6 AWD.

    That price sounds fine to me; my 2005 3.0R VDC listed at $35.5k. At the time I downgraded from a nearly $40k 2002 Passat W8. The Acura label should be able to carry that price with AWD. Total cost to own with depreciation might be significantly lower than for an Outback 3.6R Limited.

    Since it is a wagon not an ersatz SUV it has another advantage. Too bad Subaru quit making the Legacy wagon. I wonder what a lowering kit for the Forester would be like?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, the Legacy wagon was always cheaper, by at least a grand or so, than the Outback.

    When we saw those euro Legacy wagon prices it was the same way, about 10% less.
  • aaykayaaykay Member Posts: 539
    I think the higher-end model, the TL, costs as much as $38K for a 3.7L V6 with SH-AWD. So if they are coming out with a TSX wagon with SH-AWD, I bet it will be priced in the $34-35K ball-park (roughly about $3-4K less than the equivalent TL). And at that price it will sell really well.

    And since the TSX is effectively the Euro-Accord, the handling should be a lot sharper than its larger brother, the TL, which has been Americanized a lot by being plus-sized. I hate needless plus-sizing. :mad:
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    I bet it will be priced in the $34-35K ball-park

    At that price it should be a bargain in comparison to the 3.6R Outback Limited: A real wagon, lower total cost to own and NOT oversized. Not to mention a possibly larger dealer network. Perhaps it will even have folding mirrors. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $39,465 after you include freight.

    I didn't realize you could get SH-AWD without stepping up to the Type S, though, so that is less than I thought.

    A TSX V6 AWD would probably be $35k or so, but I still think a wagon version would break $36k.

    Still a good value given Acura's high levels of equipment even on base models.

    I don't think it'll do a lot of volume, though. The RD-X will sell more, and the ZD-X will get all the attention. I say this even though I'd prefer the TSX myself.
  • lirrmikelirrmike Member Posts: 4
    Hello all,
    I have heard rumors quite a while ago that the Tribeca is supposed to be redesigned for 2011? Then I also heard another rumor that the 2010 Tribeca will be the last? And comfirmation on thses rumors? Thanks in advance for any info.
  • movedormovedor Member Posts: 65
    Look at the Tribeca sales from the past months and tell what you think is the most likely :-):

    Oct 2009: 246
    Sep 2009: 358
    Aug 2009: 797
    Jul 2009: 707
    Jun 2009: 784
    May 2009: 671
    Apr 2009: 567

    Note that improvements for 2010 model are very minor, unlikely those low recent sales numbers are because of coming model. However it might be from the expectation of more discounts for 2009 model when 2010 is on the lots.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    The Toyota-Subaru coupe WILL be sold as a Subaru, with standard AWD, and 50 more hp than the Toyota model!

    Interestingly, they apparently think they can get 250 hp out of the Japanese 2.0 without turbocharging it - that will be quite a feat.

    http://www.insideline.com/subaru/toyobaru-new-details-on-subarus-version-of-the-- toyota-ft-86.html

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • movedormovedor Member Posts: 65
    250 hp from 2.0 non-turbo? From Subaru? Doesn't sound very credible.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, that's what I'm hoping and praying for. Still it's not "official" until we see something from Subaru confirming that. That said, it looks promising.

    Bob
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Yeah, I might expect that from Honda (with a 10,000 rpm redline of course!) but not Subaru. I expect it will end up being the JDM turbo 2.0, which if they can keep the weight well below 3000 pounds should be quite entertaining. But not fuel-efficient by any means.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I don't know about that. I suspect we may see an all-new boxer engine with direct injection. If so, I expect more power and better fuel economy.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What happened to the whole "affordable" angle?

    Originally it was supposed to start under $20k. I'm sure they meant $19,999 plus $800 freight, but still.

    Now we're at $25k for the Toy, $30 grand for the Subie?

    Add, what $3 grand at least for a convertible version?

    :cry:
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Honda couldn't even do that with the 2.0 in the S2000. That was probably the highest tuned mass production car out there.
  • movedormovedor Member Posts: 65
    I hope they focus on reducing weight instead of increasing power. And I hope they bring it closer to those $20K instead of $30K. Mazda Miata was a success back then because of its low price as sport car appeal, not for its performance.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Miatas are still successful. The base prices of 2010 models range from $23,560 (Sport w/soft top) to $29,000 (Grand Touring w/retractable hardtop). These prices are from the Mazda web site. Of course, any options push those numbers up.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Indeed, with its simpler-is-better approach, Mazda has killed off many a competitor:

    Mercury Capri
    Toyota MR2
    Honda S2000
    Pontiac Solistic
    Saturn Sky

    I heard about an affordable sports car, and was thinking I'd now have a good alternative.

    Then again, maybe Subaru was wise not to follow in the footsteps of the cars listed above.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I was wondering the same thing! AND this car is still a year away, enough time for the price to grow by $3K or more.

    And for those of you who are counting, a 250 hp coupe isn't going to sell at $30 grand, even WITH AWD. Just look at the Genesis coupe, Soob's own WRX, 370Z, Camaro, Mustang GT, the list goes on and on of powerful sporty cars at this price (or a bit lower), whereas lower-powered sporty cars like the GTI and Civic SI are in the low $20Ks. If they plan to sell 2000 a year to Subaru fans, and it is profitable for them at that sales volume, THEN I think it has a future the way it looks now.

    I think Toyota is going to have a hard time selling their RWD version (where everything people really want will be optional of course; it's Toyota after all) starting at $25K. The Toyota DEFINITELY should have stuck to the $20K base price, for the kind of volume Toyota insists on in cars in order to continue their production.

    volkov: yeah, I was exaggerating with the Honda 10K-redline remark.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    I don't know about that. I suspect we may see an all-new boxer engine with direct injection. If so, I expect more power and better fuel economy.


    I think this is what the hope is across the line. They're building a new engine plant.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, it'll be like this:

    $25k for a CE
    $27k for an LE
    $29k for an XLE that is well equipped

    I bet it costs more than the Genesis coupe with the turbo.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    I got that it was somewhat tongue in cheek. But remember, the original did redline at 9k.
    What I was meaning is that you won't see 250hp from a 2.0L but the original did get close with 240hp. Still there's no way I see a Toyota tuned n/a 2.0L will get anywhere close to 250hp. Even 200 is a stretch.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wasn't Celica close to 100hp/liter?

    I'm sure they'll let Subaru tune it for them, perhaps a tad conservatively.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Yes, always there to keep me honest. The last gen in GT-S form had 180hp from a 1.8 litre engine. The older Celica turbos broke 200, but not N/A. I'd still put 100 hp per litre as the top end tune for a production Toyota. Heck even Lotus only tuned that engine to 190hp on American gas when it was put in the Elise and that's a much more aggressive tune than you'll ever see from a production Toyota. Remember too that these were high rev, torque-poor engines (Yamaha made the top end power plant) with HP numbers due to sick redlines. Those aren't characteristics of boxers. You didn't get to enjoy that 180hp very much because you only hit it at 7600 rpm which doesn't leave much time before fuel cut.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Yeah, it'll be like this:

    $25k for a CE
    $27k for an LE
    $29k for an XLE that is well equipped


    LOL! Yes, and the CE will have crank windows and a plastic plate where the stereo should be. If you want wheels bigger than 14 inch and cruise, you will have to pony up for the LE with the "sport package" (16-inch rims and a bunch of plastic crap designed to make it "look sporty"), for around $28,500, at which point you STILL won't have the turbo. :-P

    Or you could could just buy the Subaru version, with AWD and worse fuel economy, and have everything for $30K. A devil's choice?.....

    I AM beginning to get a little worried that this thing is going to be unaffordable and/or a poor value compared to competing models by the time they get it launched. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    And no A/C.

    To be fair, both the Miata and the Solistice had no A/C in the base versions, probably to save weight and reduce power loss.

    For $25k I hope I'm wrong and they start at the LE equipment level.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    You didn't get to enjoy that 180hp very much because you only hit it at 7600 rpm which doesn't leave much time before fuel cut.

    Why I love my 2005 Cummins... 325 hp at 2900 rpm, 610 lb-ft at 1400 rpm. Too bad it weighs so darn much that it takes a Ram HD to support it... ;)

    kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    Being an owner of a 2008 Tribeca I have some thoughts what Subaru should do for 2011. Using the new Outback chassis a start with its larger gas tank, give it several more inches of wheelbase and add a few more size to the gas tank. Otherwise it is not a bad vehicle IMHO. Really good in the winter time with Blizzaks. Last of all, direct injection for the engine. That should be good for a few more mpg and hp.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They definitely came in too small. Just as everyone else was super-sizing their entries to replace their minivans (both GM and Ford did that).

    Your plan sounds good, but I wonder if Subaru will even invest the money given the tiny volumes for the current model.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    As you (or some other people) mentioned, they should just built an Outback XL. Stretch the 2010 platform to allow for a true 6 (or 7) seater.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep. Add 4-6" to the wheelbase, 10" or so to the length. Square off the back - that would make it MUCH bigger than the Outback.

    Basically it would be to the Outback what the Exiga is to the Forester.
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    Yep, sounds like that would be the plan. It'll be up to the marketing dept whether to determine the viability of a larger Subaru. Another factor will be the upcoming CAFE standards, which is an argument against. Would be great if they could be first or early w/a legit. hybrid version of a vehicle that size -- would be a huge selling point.

    Here's hoping they do so while keeping some of the current Tribeca characteristics. I own the '06 -- yeah, it's a little small, lacks a bit of acceleration (though the newer ones are improved), but its ride and handling are better than almost anything else in its class and the interior is very nice. Don't have the new Outback # in front of me, but the Tribeca was/is the only Subaru wide enough to accommodate two car seats w/a passenger in the middle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tribeca's 40/20/40 middle row is also by far the most comfortable for 3 across.

    Keep things like that and make the 3rd row bigger, with more cargo space behind it.

    A hybrid would get expensive. Easily in to the $40s, probably.

    How 'bout a diesel? Try to keep it at $39,995 loaded.
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    Maybe they'll ramp up production of the turbodiesel when the new factory is online.
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    We like the our Tribeca. But as I mentioned above, it would be better with the above mentioned changes. Nice road car, stops well, sometimes has a funny hesitation when moving off from a dead stop. I find myself using the sport shift to hasten the forward movement and going down slippery slopes (we live about 2 miles off the paved road and have to travel over several ridges).

    But I'm impatiently waiting for direct injection on the Outback 4 cylinder. My '98 OBW is getting a little old, even though it only has 119,000 miles. It is being used as the towed vehicle behind the motor home so in reality it has about 135,000 miles. I'd love to use the Tribeca, but it is not towable on 4 tires.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,707
    When that day comes (to replace the '98), let me know.... ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Yep, DI plus the gear capacity of the CVT would make for a very nice combination in the OB.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Gosh I hope they bring the hybrid tourer to the DC Auto Show.

    I may try to steal it. :D

    Edit: did you catch the part about ALG's top residuals for the Forester and Outback, and Subaru overall as a mainstream brand? Sweet.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.