Subaru Crew - Modifications II

lucien2

both cars have been ectomied for a while now and it will be a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] to re-install.

fibber2

Some poor engineer with a specialty in fluid mechanics and thermodynamics spent a lot of CAD time trying to make standing waves pack the most air into the engine to enhance midrange performance. All that plastic ductwork with those strange looking pertuberances (sp?) isn't cheap or put there just for show. What is the motivation for taking it off?

Steve

ateixeira

I think the main thing it does is reduce noise.

The path is so complicated, with lots of bends, that it cannot possibly be optimized for efficiency.

-juice

maverick1017

I actually have two filters after I de-snorkused my 98. I left the factory airbox with a K&N filter in it, replaced the snorkus with a 90 degree, 3" PVC elbow running into the fender well and 6 inches of straight PVC piping attach to that running toward the bottom of the well; finally I have a K&N cone filter attached to the end of that. Its probably overkill for clean air but I am paranoid. The plus side is only the cone filter need cleaning and no bugs, leaves or other foreign entities in the factory airbox.

Mike

fibber2

but it is probably very efficient at certain RPM ranges. Same with exhaust system design. A certain degree of backpressure is essential for both emissions and better breathing. Standing waves scavenge gases more efficiently than an open pathway.

Just take a look at that intake tract. It is way too complex to have been an accident. I have to believe that someone tuned that thing with the help of a dynamometer. And not just for noise abatement.

Steve

lark6

ateixeira

I think you're giving the engineers a little too much credit! ;-)

It's probably more true of the exhaust.

I don't notice a real difference until I'm at WOT, then it's louder and produces really good torque.

-juice

kens

I actually re-installed my snorkus after a year or two of driving around without out it (and what a pain it was to re-install it). The reason? The noise was starting to bug me. The snorkusectomy combined with the Amsoil filter produces quite a bit of noise that transmits itself through the glove box. I got tired of the buzzing everytime I went to WOT. Also, I personally didn't think the snorkusectomy did much at all in terms of performance.

As for the filter being dirtier with the snorkusectomy, I don't think I noticed a difference. Then again, my Amsoil filter is black foam so it's hard to "see" dirt on it.

Ken

ateixeira

Mine was definitely dirty after driving on the beach. Though I didn't have a stock intake to compare it to. Also, I did a *lot* of driving on sand, about 8 days' worth.

-juice

forestergump

I don't recall exactly, since I also purchase four more speakers and a CD/tuner at the time. I'm not a big fan of OEM stereos. Replaced the whole lot that came with my Forester.
-Bob

fibber2

Did you hear that? Engineers are under attack from Juice (finance guy - bean counter!!!). Rally the troops! Must resist the onslaught...
;-)

Steve

ateixeira

Me, bean counter?

No way, I'm a computer geek. BS in Computer Science, MS in Management Information Systems. OK, the MS was technically under the B School, but I only took a single class in Finance.

I won't even get into the PV and FV calculations in my head! ;-)

-juice

kens

Steve,

Actually, I'm probably more the finance guy than juice is. My BS is in engineering, but my MBA was split between finance and marketing. In fact, my first job at Agilent was in finance.

I'd love to spend a day talking to the FHI engineers. Now THAT would be interesting.

Ken

ateixeira

I don't get the Subaru bean counters. They add a 2nd odometer but cut out mud guards. They add an outside temp gauge but cut the cargo liner. They add bigger standard rims but cut the cargo cover.

I guess my "beef" is that Subaru's main edge over its competitors is content. AWD and ABS on every model, even the cheapest ones.

Every year since 1998 the Forester has added content, but for 2003 they cost-cut about 4 things, even while adding about 10 others. I don't get it.

-juice

leo2633

A while back, someone (I think it was Bit) posted some factory installation instructions for various Subaru sound system items. I seem to have lost that link. Anyone have it handy? Thanks in advance.

Len

outback_97

Len: Searching yielded this, is this it?:
http://bitman.com/soobdash/

Also, scoobymods has some info on audio installations.

Anyone familiar w/ MTX 6.5 component speakers? I got a good deal on some, but now am not sure I want to try to install them becuase depth is 2.75" and it's going in an '03 TS. My concern would be going through the trouble of installing components and crossovers and making spacers to fit them, and then finding out I'll need an aftermarket amp to drive them. I'd rather just get an aftermarket CD player and some decent coaxials if these need lots o' power to sound good. Any comments?

utahsteve

hondafriek

You stock amp will drive those speakers but to do them justice you should consider an aftermarket amp, I know I would.

  IMHO if you go to the trouble and expense of good aftermarket speakers do it right, most good aftermarket speakers need a good amp to drive them.

You do not need an amp for lots of volume you need power to drive the speaker efficiently in order to reproduce sound as intended.

  The difference in any good speaker driven by good amp as opposed to a so so amp can really be heard.

  Cheers Pat.

sfdriver

I'm trying to swap a WRX deck in my '03 Forester X but have problem...I can't get the Heat/AC controls off the silver bezel. I popped the bezel out of the dash, but it only comes out about an inch and then the HVAC controls prevent it from coming any further. How does that panel come off? I assume you have to somehow disconnect the controls. Thanks for any help!

hypov

Ric-
If the layout of the '03 Forester is similar to the previous MY, remove the center console starting from the middle storage bin. When you open the bin lid, there should be to screws. Remove them and pop that section of the console, then the console surrounding the shifter [that' s what is holding the bezel]. You need not remove the HVAC.
Hope this helps

-Dave

outback_97

Your recommendation and my concerns about the iffy mounting depth convinced me I should return the speakers, even though they were a good deal. At this time I'm not interested in the full on system with amps and extensive wiring mods. I think I'll start with the head unit and see how much better that is, THEN upgrade speakers if need be. On my OB this is what I did, and the improvement from the head unit upgrade (stock tape player/radio => Pioneer CD player) was much more dramatic than the speaker upgrade afterwards(stock 6.5's => Infinity 6.5's).

utahsteve

sfdriver

Dave, 

Thanks for the tip, but the '03 has the HVAC located beneath the stereo and above the cigarette lighter. It does not come out with the stereo rack. I did find the instructions for the pre-03's
here.  But
unfortunately the '03 setup is more complicated.  It looks like I have to go
behind the dash   -Ric

hondafriek

The intructions you show here are for a 2000 to 2001 Legacy not a forester the cupholder on the dash panel is not in a forester.

   Cheers Pat.

hondafriek

If anybody is interested there are Katzskin leather packages on EBay for 2001-2003 legacy sedan and wagon get this $99USD for the sedan and $150USD for the wagon.

  Do'nt what the story maybe they fell off the back of a truck. LOL.

   Cheers Pat.

sfdriver

I thought that since the pre-03 Forester's HVAC controls were above the stereo, the Legacy instructions would work. Anyway, I traced the 2 taut cables for the left & right knobs and found where they are connected and disconnected them to move the bezel. I have an automatic, and if you unscrew the shifter knob, there's enough room to slide the bezel out, so no need to remove it. Next project is the security upgrade. The Subaru instruction comes with it, so it should be more straight forward.

hypov

Ric-
Glad you found your way around.

-Dave

leo2633

That was what I was looking for. Thanks!

Len

ateixeira

Wow, Pat, I'll ask my wife. But I think we're happy with cloth. Her last car was leather and she used to put a wool blanket over it in the winter.

It was better for back seat spills, though.

-juice

fibber2

that my acrylic hood deflector look like is was slightly out of position. I lifted the hood and saw that the 'wraparound' section on one side had split clean across at the bend. It is about 16 months old - I bought it shortly after purchasing the car, but I went back to my dealer today at lunchtime to see if they could either get it covered or make an adjustment. With a little gentle nudging, the parts mgr gave me 20% off a new one. Free would have been better, but we all walked away reasonably happy.

Just feel lucky that I caught it before it became airborne! Was it Ken that suffered that fate?

Steve

paisan

I've had similar problems with my air-deflectors (3 or em on various vehicles)

-mike

ateixeira

Do you ever remember hitting a rock?

Look at it this way, it could have been your hood ($$$ painted) or your windshield.

-juice

kens

I'm not sure if you meant me (there are a couple of Kens now), but I actually removed my deflector after a few months because I didn't like it.

I realized it caused me more problems with wind buffeting and access for washing the car so I took it off. Also, the clips left little marks on my hood despite the 3M protective tape.

Ken

fibber2

but I must be mistaken. Someone had one of these break off and strike the hood doing damage.

I think it has indeed taken a few hard hits, along with the plastic body side cladding. Lots of stones and rock salt from a rough winter. The deflector gave its life so that my hood and windshield could survive unscathed!

Steve

paisan

Not sure if they have an application for the subies, but have to give them props for great customer service. I have one of their bug guards and the clips/fasteners snapped/stopped working properly so I took it off before winter. Now that I'm doing some work on my Trooper I figure I should re-attach it. Called Lund to buy replacement parts and they are sending them for FREE! I didn't even ask them for it!

-mike

oregonboy

Lund sent me the little rubber "gum drop" spacers that keep the deflector from rubbing the hood (of my Tacoma pickup)... no charge. My deflector isn't even a Lund. Good customer relations.

I think that I would prefer no deflector. I don't care much for the "look" and I suspect that it creates turbulence that makes my Rain-X raindrop dispersal less effective. Unfortunately, while the "gum drops" were missing, the deflector made fairly deep rub marks in the paint.

-james

ateixeira

Nice to know there are vendors out there like that. I'm sure next time you need something you'll know where to go!

-juice

hondafriek

In answer to stevek who asked the question, I intend to add side markers, I do not like the hokey aftermarket ones where you have to cut a large hole and then they are held on by two screws.

  If you are going to cut a large hole anyway why not go with some style of OEM marker that is clipped in as opposed to screws, the rational being that you can treat the edge of the large hole with antirust paint but you can't treat the screw holes and eventually you will get rust there.

  So what I did was to get some damaged fenders from a body shop to practice cutting holes in before getting into my actual fenders,
( I may be mad but I am not stupid).
 So I am going to try post some photos showing what I have done.

  Cheers Pat.

hondafriek

 Photo one is the fender I practiced on next one shows how little margin for error, next one shows marker installed, last one shows hokey aftermarket as opposed to aset made OEM for a mitsu. Lancer which is a style that I liked personally.

  Cheers Pat.

hondafriek

The paint around the edges of the holes may look a bit rough, I just dabbed some on and let it dry I wanted to be sure it would not chip off on the edge when I snapped the light in.

The finished product on the Titan will be better finished.

  Cheers Pat.

bsvoller

I was the one who reported a hood deflector failure - twice. The first one came off while going 80+ on I-15 on the way home from Disneyland. Crosswinds were strong, but that strong? I had a 80+ mph wind pushing down on it, afterall. We just saw it fly off to the side of the road. NOT confidence inspiring...

About 6 months later, I decided to try again. Within a week, my wife was again driving in gusty cross-wind conditions, when it cracked at the mount point and came loose. This time it just vibrated, damaging the paint across the hood and both fenders. Although my dealer backed the product and repainted the hood and fenders, it was a very bad experience - the first attempt at painting had lots of bubbles, and they cracked my windshield in the baking booth. It took them almost 3 weeks to get it right.

I wrote Subaru and urged them to redesign the acrylic guard or dump the acrylic in favor of polycarbonate (Lexan). My family's been in plastics for over 40 years, so I have some insight into these things. The Subaru hood deflector is a failed design, it's as simple as that. Acrylic is too brittle to handle the stresses encounted in cross-winds given their mounting approach and cross-section thickness. Lexan would be significantly more expensive, but virtually indestructable at today's dimensions (might be able to use the same mold, which is a large part of the tooling cost).

As an example, higher end refrigerators use Lexan for their "unbreakable" storage bins and shelves, so it's not like no one has adopted it for consumer applications requiring relatively large, mass-produced injection moldings in modest runs.

I believe some of the after-market guards are made from Lexan, but I haven't looked into it.

-brianV

outback_97

If anyone is interested in more info, I'm upgrading the front speakers in our '03 Impreza wagon. I plan to take some pics and do a write up to supplement the info available from subaruparts.com. While this info is extremely helpful, it will only take you to the point of removing the old speaker, not getting a good one back in there. Not quite plug and play.

The OEM speakers in my '97 OB doors definitely seemed better than the anemic ones in the '03 TS, and were easier to upgrade. I don't think I had a "premium" audio upgrade in the '97, but I'm not sure since I bought the car used.

I'm assuming the TS speakers = WRX speakers and sedan and wagon are all the same OEM, can anyone confirm this? Thanks.

utahsteve

ateixeira

Looks like some tight tolerance for error, Pat. What tools did you use to cut the sheetmetal?

Man, I thought I fiddled with my cars, I do nothing compared to you!

-juice

hondafriek

I used a variety of methods, first one was to drill a series of holes around the perimeter and then file it out that worked but was time consuming.

 Next I tried two larger holes with a hole saw and filing to shape, actually the easiest method is to drill a hole and cut it out with a jigsaw, and then dress up the edges with a file.

It may be a little harder on the car with a jig saw but that is the method I am going to try.

 Cheers Pat.

ateixeira

Wow, did you get sparks flying all over the place?

If I did something like that my car would end up on fire. :-)

-juice

hondafriek

No sparks, actually the jig saw with a metal cutting blade is safe.

  Cheers Pat.

qbrozen

I found the smoothest result is given by a Rotozip tool with a metal-cutting blade. you have to take it slow, but it gives you a very nice edge and the lack of vibration (like from a jigsaw or reciprocating saw) makes the work less stressful.

hondafriek

Thanks for the suggestion I will give one try, I think I can borrow one from my neighbour.

  Cheers Pat.

fibber2

Thanks! I think SoA may have been listening (at least partially). P/N E2310LS001 has been replaced by E2310LS101. To the untrained eye it still looks to be smoked acrylic, but the attachment system is different. You now have to take the grill out as it uses a center strap as well as the side mounts. And it now uses screws/nuts for the lower clips, instead of just a snap-in fit. I will let you know how it goes - may get to it this weekend.

Steve

gened1

After reading here awhile back, about Subaru installed front wind deflector failures, I ordered mine from the Perfect Fit site
http://www.carbras.com/
It is drilless and has held up well.
Gene

subearu

I have the OEM Subaru acrylic deflector on my '00 Outback. I even take it off when I happen to put the Outback through an automatic carwash (in the winter). It has held up fine.

-Brian

lakepop

A less than complete.....BUT helpful.. installation library for Sube stuff http://www.1stsubaruparts.com/library/