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Does anyone have any comment on Citgo Supergard oils? All grades have very high flash points (could this indicate quality?). Are these hydrocracked oils?
We bought a new 2002 Kia Sedona minivan a week ago. I do own oil changes on our other 2 vehicles and am using Mobil 1 5W30 on both. When the time comes to change the oil in our new Sedona, I'm wondering whether to stick with Mobil 1 or to try one of these hydrocracked/semi-synthetic oils such as Valvoline's MaxLife (I can't think of any other examples off the top of my head).
For 2 bucks a quart or less, these type of semi-synthetic oils seem like good value compared with Mobil 1, which I can buy for about $3.67 a quart.
Any thoughts?
The Sedona owners manual does nothing more than show a standard illustration of thinner oils recommended at lower temps, and thicker stuff at higher temps.
I know the general trend from auto manufacturers is to recommend thinner oils, and presumably they are building the engines to agree with these recommendations.
I'm in southeast Michigan-- winters are cold but not frigid-- rarely below 0 degrees Fahrenheit. Summers are around 90 pretty often.
Any thoughts on which oil weight to use? I plan to email Kia and get their thoughts on this too.
I have heard that the two Quaker State Blends (4X4 and High Performance) are 20% and 25% respectively but I cannot cite a source. These would have the highest amount of synthetic in their blend ... that I know of.
Perhaps armtdm would have some comments about the content of Amsoil blends.
Bluedevil's, Valvoline claims Max-Life is good for new and newly reuilt engines. I have used it in my Dad's 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis since aroung the 18,000 mile mark. The car likes it but I'm sure the 4.6L will tolerate anything when very new.
As for the viscosity recommendation, I don't think you can go wrong with 5W30 in the winter and 10W30 in the summer ... but I haven't seen that chart you are speaking of.
--- Bror Jace
At this point I am running my own blend. 3 quarts Maxlife, and 1 quart synpower. You can get a performance sheet on Maxlife from the Valvoline Web site. Maxlife has been shown to keep the inside of the engine cleaner, helps seals last longer and has specific anti-sludging properties.
However it is only rated SJ, so if your Kia insists on an SL oil then avoid it during the warranty period. Like BroJace, I believe that this doesn't meet higher qualifications because it has too many good additives to help reduce wear. The oil companies list fouling of the catalytic converter as a reason to go to SL, but I've personally never had to replace one. Tuning the car regularly on the severe schedule should help.
High Mileage Oils are made by Castrol and Quaker State as well as Valvoline. They are based on hydrocracked crude and sell for the same price as a synthetic blend.
If you have an overhead cam engine with hydraulic valve lifters I would stick with a 5w-30 year around. On a new engine, recommend Valvoline all climate if you want to use conventional. In my area they've finally started setting up some quick change stores.
I just picked up some for one of Dad's antique (pre-WWII) cars and I thought all ND oil was "SA" grade/class.
--- Bror Jace
"iso syn" on the side - even tho its $1.20 a quart dino oil?
SA grade oil (available at WalMart for $0.75 per quart) has NO ADDITIVES at all and is merely 100% refined mineral oil. If anyone knows anything different, please post and set the record straight.
I'm in agreement on the Chevron oil and the WalMarts around here that recently added it to their line have had a hard time keeping it in stock.
wain, because "isosyn" IS dino oil; hydrocracked, isomerized dino oil. Check their website for descriptions of these processes.
The definitions of conventional and synthetic are all over the place now, thanks to Castrol, the SAE and the API. Valvoline uses hydrocracked crude oil and bottles it as Max-Life while Castrol takes stuff which is chemically very similar and calls it "Castrol Synthetic 100% synthetic". What a mess we have.
Most if not all SL grade dino oils have these highly refined (hydrocracked, hydroisomerized) mineral stocks in them but not all draw attention to it. So, in a way, you could say that just about all the oil sold today (at least the SL stuff) is semi-synthetic ... from a certain point of view.
--- Bror Jace
http://theoildrop.server101.com/whatisoilanalysis.htm
bob
Thank You
Erfan Afshar
If you read the synthetic oil forum you'll see columns about Mobil 1 just now meeting SL/ILSAC 3 standards. I always thought that they just had old oils in their supply lines and that the old oil would actually meet the new standards if they ran a test on it. Makes you wonder whether Mobil 1 is worth it or not. IMHO it's not.
If you're using Quaker State of any kind, the same oil is available at a greatly reduced price as Wal-Mart's house brand.
I've been having Wal-Mart change my oil with Super Tech Oil and (insisting on) a Super Tech filter rather than the advertised Fram. For $11.99 you get decent oil and a good filter. Unlike their $15.99 specials the oil is bottled and not bulk. Seems like a pretty good deal for cars under warranty where you need the records of oil changes. Changing at 4K intervals, the quality of oil shouldn't make a lot of difference IMHO.
I think it's been stated here that all oils must be semi-synthetic to meet the new SL/GF3 standards. That being the case, your Quaker State semi-syn may be available at Wal-Mart as Super Tech for 78 cents a quart. It's all marketing, I guess.
Another option would be to switch your car to one of the high mileage oils now available. Seem to be a synthetic at a far lower price.
1. need to establish a base line for the vehicle
2. then do trend analyses
3. factor in age and mileage on vehicle
4. factor in environmental effects (like do you live near the ocean or in the desert (lol))
I do too much technical crap at work to deal with this in my garage (no, I would have to plot and analyze the data on a computer!).
I know, everyone is gonna slam me about this, but thin oil is only about better gas mileage (and low mileage vehicles under warranty), thicker oil is for engine protection under heat and load (and higher mileage vehicles well after warranty). I live in central North Carolina and won't even use 5w30 in the winter here.
We have talked about this on here before..the manufacturers need the vehicles to get better gas mileage (CAFE), the owners that intend to keep a vehicle need the engine to last....ok, who's gonna slam me first?
Thanks
I guess only 10 more years out will tell. Basically, I sort of agree with you but cannot prove anything. I use the Amsoil 0W30 in that car. All others 10W30
The difference should be a slightly faster initial pump up at cold start for the 5w30, that is true also.
When the temperature is very cold the thin oil should help at initial startup,,,but from what I have read the 10w30 is good at startup down to 0 deg F...Personally I have never had to crank a vehicle anywhere near that temperature,,,,,If someone has to live in those type conditions, thin oil IS warranted.
5w30 oil needs more Viscosity Improver to make the 5w oil behave like the 30w at higher temps than the 10w30 does. If I am going to use more VI, I will use it in the 10w40 oil rather than the 5w30 oil.
I have a 99 s10 ZR2 truck with 52k on it now, I use 2 qts 10w40 and 3 qts 10w30 as of the 50k mark, used only 10w30 up until then. I will probably use 3x10w40 and 2x10w30 after about 65k, and will probably use all 10w40 after 100k,,,,and that is what will be the WINTER mix....
During the late summer I will probably swap 1 qt of 20w50 for a qt of 10w40.
I use Havoline std oil and use basically any filter besides Fram.
I know a lot of people believe in using thinner oil but I do not. Modern engines ARE made with more CONSISTANT tolerances due to better manufacturing processes, I am not so sure about being TIGHTER though. Older engines used to get noticeably better mileage as the motor got broken in, newer engines get better mileage as they get broken in also, but the difference is less, sometimes barely noticeable.
The government is pushing HARD on the mfgrs to get better gas mileage, unfortunately that conflicts sometimes with getting better longevity out of the motor...more and more people lease vehicles these days so fewer and fewer actually care if the vehicle lasts 200k, they DO care about better mileage though and thin oil does get better mileage. It all depends on what YOU want, I keep vehicles for a long time, but a lot of people these days don't. It sounds like the people on this Edmunds page do care about the vehicles more than your typical person does, most people on here probably check the vehicles routinely and pay more attention to details than most people do.
My vote on the oil issue is NO on thin oil, and YES on "AS thick as required for the conditions"
I usually catch alot of flack on this but this forum is good for getting people's opinions huh?see ya
Rando
Anyone know about mixing weights.
or 0x30?
Q. Can I mix Mobil 1 10W-30 and 15W-50 half-and-half to protect my engine with the equivalent of an SAE 40-weight oil?
A. Mobil 1 10W-30 will provide your engine with the same protection at engine operating temperatures as a non-synthetic SAE 40 engine oil, while at the same time providing excellent low-temperature flow characteristics (-55° F) that help reduce wear at engine start-up. There is no need to mix two Mobil 1 viscosity grades when one will do; however, it can be done.
From what I have read a 50/50 mix of 10w30 and 10w40 does not equal 10w35...but I bet it's pretty close..close enough for me.
I just try to keep the oil thick enough to prevent engine wear as the engine normally wears through the years...that 5w20 or 5w30 may be ok when the engine is new and in cold startup temps, but when that engine has a few years and miles on it...it needs some real oil in it.
Mixing 10w30 and 10w40 will be a homogenous mixture, don't worry about that..they will not separate into layers in the oil pan..I'm not sure about the exact hot temp weight equivalent, but the guess-timate is good enough for me...
Maybe someone else does know that answer????
Who's next?
I just read post 1182, I have never used synthetic oil, so I can't vouch for it lubricating as good as a thicker conventional oil..
As far as I am concerned 10w30 is supposed to be 10w30 whether it is conventional or synthetic.(why else would there be any API rating in the first place ..the rules would be the same in my book whichever I used, If I wanted 10w35 (so-to-speak) I would mix 50/50 of either synthetic or conventional 10w30 and 10w40...
Synthetics aren't for everyone but they have some highly desirable properties and to me they are worth the cost.
Even normal petroleum oil now has a lot better (narrower) spread of molecular wt oil to make whatever weight is needed,,,,it behaves more consistant over the 3k miles of use than the older petro oils did.
If someone wants extended drains then the synthetic oil can handle that very well, I have never had a problem with 3k drains and the petroleum oils now handle that very well too.
The only engine I ever had that used 10w30 exclusively was a Chevy 4.3 (95 Blazer) died at 107k with a cam bearing problem, maybe that was just bad luck,probably was, but still happened, all the others have gone at least to 180k using at least 10w40 or 20w50 (3k changes)for the life of the vehicle...It is good to hear that your engines lasted well using 10w30 (American or Japanese?) and maybe it could work for me too, but I still favor heavier oil after the warranty period , especially in warmer climates...I understand thinner oils in the really cold areas, but I don't live in the really cold areas, so I don't go with them. Good luck with your engine longevity, I hope to hear it more often!
see ya
Rando
For example, GM recommends 5W-30 for 3.1l V-6 engine in my 98 Malibu manual. It almost does not depends on temperature - good for most of USA.
For 3.8l V-6 it depends on the temperature: 10W-30 is recommended for summer (above 60 degree F), 5W-30 for winter (below 0F). Both grades are good between 0 and 60F, but 5W-30 is preferable according the 00 Regal manual.
For very cold temperature, like -20F and colder, GM recommends either 0W-30, or synthetic oil for the both engines.
This is what I remember, and as well as I remember. Did not recheck the manuals before posting.
None of these manuals tell what to do when temperature changes. I live in CT: "If you do not like the New England climate, just wait 15 minutes" (Mark Twain). The temperature surges above 60F even in mid-winter, sometimes to about 70. The next week it falls below 0F, especially in night time. One more reason to use synthetic.
I think the most important thing is to just change the oil no matter what brand/type/weight you use. Dino oil is definitly much better these days, but in my new Jeep Liberty I'll be using 10w30 Mobil1 with changes at 3000-4000. It might be overkill but it's worth the extra $50 or so a year to me and I'm one of the few that will take my SUV offroad so I'm definitly severe service. The only way I may switch is if Mobil goes soft and switches to hydrocracked oil when they release the new Mobil1 in April.
Oh and I live in a warm climate: LA(the one on the South Coast) so I don't worry about too many cold starts.
One interesting side note: In the owners manual Jeep just says use an API spec oil, no SF,SJ,SL etc classification given.
I am very curious how you came to this conclusion.
Here's another situation: This involves Ford MoCo. With the 5w20 Motorcraft oil it now specifies, do you:
a) Stick with 5w20 motor oil, per Ford
b) Since some people don't want to buy oil at the Ford dealership, they use a 5w30 oil, instead.
c) Since there is no API certified 5w20 synthetic oil, hey synthetic 5w30 oil should suffice.
Here's the catch, if something is wrong with the engine, the the source of the problem has been pinpointed to lubrication, and through oil analysis, they find you did not use 5w20 oil, as required by Ford, the repair is not covered under warranty. Fat chance of that happening? Well, unfortunately, this is happening.
As far as the Ford 5w20 question, concerning the warranty period you should do what the mfgr says to avoid any problems with them denying a claim due to you not following their recommended lubrication guidelines. I follow the lube recommendations according to the book too, at least out to 50k miles, just to make sure there are no engine problems related to initial manufacturing problems. I only start thickening up AFTER that point...Chevrolet (or Ford) could care less what happens to that vehicle by then. Good luck hoping they would give you a warranty claim at that point...
The warranty period was a very short part of the life of most vehicles I have ever owned..I consider it "vehicle puberty" he he
It is possible that the 5w20 will give the engine a good long life, feel free to go with it, it's your call on that. Sounds like Charlesb_LA has had good luck with 10w30 being used long term in a warm climate (does LA in that case refer to "lower Alabama" ?? I grew up down there (Pensacola, Fl) and thats what we called it...)
I sincerely hope that using thinner oil does provide engine longevity for everyone, it has only started being a highly used routine oil weight in the last few years, so after a few more years we will see about any long term issues, I hope there won't be any, but with so many people leasing vehicles now, long engine life expectations are dwindling so it may not be a highly publicized fact if problems do occur very often..
see y'all in a bit
Rando
Race-proven technology designed for passenger car performance. Provides unsurpassed fuel efficiency and up to twice the wear protection provided by popular conventional and synthetic motor oils. Recommended for use in all vehicles requiring 5W-20, 5W-30 or 10W-30 motor oils.
AmsOil
Q. The new Acuras, Hondas and some Fords are now recommending 5W-20 oil. What products do you have to offer?
A. It is important to follow your owner's manual recommendations in order to maintain coverage under your new-vehicle warranty. It is our understanding that Acura's, Honda's and Ford's recommendations to use 5W-20 are driven by concerns for fuel economy. If you wish to use a Mobil 1 synthetic lubricant for these applications where a 5W-20 is recommended (Ford, Honda, Acura), ExxonMobil recommends using Mobil 1 5W-30 or 0W-30. While Mobil 1 5W-30 and 0W-30 are fuel-economy-approved viscosity grades and will provide excellent engine protection, they might not provide the same fuel economy as 5W-20.
remember too, the lower number is the actual oil wt, the upper number is the wt that the VI and other additives make it behave like under high temps....during the summer, in stop/go traffic with the AC running or off-roading at slow speeds in low gear , there is some real heat under the hood,,,,the oil is really being tested.
High temperatures require the oil to have higher viscosity to lubricate (AND now the newer SL grade has less HighPressure additive (zinc) on top of everything else..
I use 10W-30 all year round (Capitol district). No starting problems. Doesn't usually get to 0F. Had many engines go over 100K miles with no oil consumption problems (never had an engine mechanical problem either) so the cold start lubrication concern isn't a problem here.
I find it a little funny that Mobil gave out the same advice that I have been for a while, now. If you can't find 5W20, then 0W30 or 5W30 would be fine. >:^D
I live in Saratoga, NY and I am now sticking with 5W30 syn (Red Line) all year around. I thought that switching to a 10W30 syn in the summer was a good idea, especially when my car hit 80,000 miles. But, all I noticed was a slight decrease in fuel economy. My oil consumption (or lack thereof) was not altered by the different oil weight. Can't comment on protection. My car has 115K miles on the clock and still runs like (almost) new.
FleetwoodMacsi, I think the last time I saw someone quote chapter and verse directly from a manual, it was merely a "strong recommendation".
--- Bror Jace