Yes, I am in Nashville. Not only did they have Chevron at Costco, they had it stacked to the ceilings all over the place. They had a ton of it. I went to Super WalMart this morning to check their price and it was $1.08 per qt. I figured that somewhere around a $1 per quart for SL grade oil was a steal. I also grabbed a handful of Supertech filters at Walmart for $1.97 each.
I figure that SL oil changes for $7 every 3,750 miles is going to be just about impossible to beat and/or justify trying to use synthetic and keep up with who is putting what in their "synthetic". Since both of my vehicles are garaged in the winter and we don't even have that many mornings with temperatures below 20 degrees and I am driving Hondas that rarely get over 3500 rpm for extended periods of time that it is a nobrainer to go with the Chevron and a Champion filter.
The truth is that for the lightest weights, 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 the ONLY they can meet the standard is with high amounts of Hydrocracked or ISOSYN oil.
Three months ago I put in Valvoline, 5W-30 Durablend in my oldest car (1988 172K). The engine runs very quiet and smooth. I immediately noticed the difference. I've only had to add about half a cup of oil to keep it at the top most level of full. This crazy oil even cleaned off the fine coat of varnish that has been on the dipstick for years.
blue-- I assumed that the price of SL would be higher than SJ, and I am pleased that so far, my assumption was wrong! mrdetailer-- I agree fully. Pick your SL purchases based on price among the well known brand names of engine oil.
fleetwoodsimca, I'm with you on the voting-with-your-wallet-campaign (everywhere and with all things) but, um, I live in upstate NY. We don't have Checker/Schucks/Kragen in this area. I guess I'll have to be content with the 15 quarts I've already bought at Wally-World.
pjksr, thanks for that little tidbit. Any kind of info that suggests qualitative differences between the brands is always helpful. >:^)
Unfortunately, I've been lax in researching the non-synthetics. Mr. Detailer, I'd expect all SL oils to be very good but I still think there is room for some to be better than others. One brand could be 50% hydrocracked Group II base stocks while another could be a higher percentage Group II or perhaps even Group III. Discerning the differences, though, is going to be tricky.
As for costs, I initially noticed higher prices when SL oils first hit the shelves but they've seem to come down since then a bit. Perhaps they were testing the waters? Even then, I saw oil starting to creep up towards $1.50-$1.75 per quart about a year or more ago.
Yeh, guys. Where is that full-syntec REAL-WORLD value now. I still haven't opened the valvoline SL case I got last xmas, coming out to .49/qt. With a 6mo. dump and $2.50 Puro-Prem filter for my Civic, that's a $4.22 oil change. Who says you pay more for brand name anymore.
I disposed of some waste oil today at an AutoZone Store. For curiosity's sake, I checked some labels on quite a few major brands of oil on the shelves. I had a hard time finding anything but SJ! The SL standard has been effective for nine months now. Perhaps there is a lot of warehoused SJ to get sold. brorjace: Hey! Nothing wrong with the deal you got on Chevron up there at Waldomart!
who makes it - I sometimes wonder if you get better quality control with a name brand like Mobile or whatever at 1.08 a quart rather than the Super tech at 84 cents a quart.
who makes that s t oil or does it change each month?
The refinery cracks the barrel of oil to different levels of base stock...
Then it is transported to the oil blender..
Then it has additives blended, and spot tested...
Then it is bottled in plastic bottles.
Then packaged into cases..
Then trucked to a wharehouse..
Then trucked to the store..
Then put on the shelves..
Hmmmmm.... makes me wonder, for a .84 to 1.08 oil, what cost the most? the oil or the cost to package and ship it there?
I find it amusing to see people who pay 15 to 30,000 for a car/truck then look for the lowest price oil. It's not just indivuals that do this, even when I talk to companies, They too have this same attitude, if you're cheaper we'll buy.
It's not the cost of the oil you should be worried about BUT the cost to USE the oil.
Long term effects for using a lower grade oil vs the short term cost savings from a cheap oil.
I couldn't agree with you more. We could all argue as to which is the best oil ... but. The fact remains that (as you stated) the cost of a new vehicle is so huge in comparison to the cost of oil- to look for the oil on the basis of cost (couple of pennies) is - as Bill O'Reilly from FOX News says: "the most ridiculous item of the day" I really stopped trying to convince people to use syn oil a long time ago due to this principle.
I thought the sequence above starting with pumping the oil out of the ground would come to the bottling stage, followed by Quaker State labels going on most, and SuperTech going on the rest. Same oil, different labels, different prices.
Almost daily in any financial news item you hear a quote of how much is a Barrel of Crude Oil being sold to producers of petroleum products.
Very few people are aware that a barrel of petroleum is a measure that is equivalent to 42 US Gallons.
The price of a Barrel of Crude Oil hovers at about in $20.00 to $30.00 range. That is 12 to 18 cents per Quart.
The long term average is ONLY about 15 cents.
Even at ridiculously high price of $42.00 per barrel of crude oil, a quart of crude oil is worth ONLY 25 cents!
Gasoline and Diesel is the main reason for sucking petroleum crude from the ground, and since it is the most in demand petroleum product, it brings the MOST MONEY and MOST PROFIT for any oil company.
And you know that even with Local, State and Federal taxes and the cost of transportation you can buy Gasoline anywhere in the USA for less than $2.00 per gallon or 50 cents per quart.
Motor Vehicle Fuel (Gasoline and Diesel) is a product that is in DAILY DEMAND and in the USA at least, WE CAN NOT LIVE WITHOUT!
Some undesirable fractions are left; they range from Petroleum Gas to Tar and Asphalt.
Some of this undesirable stuff is heavy oil, from which ONLY lubricants can be economically made.
If supply matched the demand for this lube oil Basestock, life would be just lovely!
Motor Oil is at best only in Quarterly Demand, or even Semi Annual.
Typical vehicle will burn about 100 to 150 gallons of Fuel before it will consume 1 gallon of Motor Oil due to Oil Change.
Unfortunately, there is presently far more low-grade lube oil stock available than the world needs.
More and more of Petroleum Lube Basestock is available daily, as vehicles use LESS oil each year, and are driven more so they burn MORE fuel, but use LESS motor oil. The lube oil stock essentially becomes a worthless commodity, which becomes a nuisance to get rid off.
Major Oil Companies "sell" lube oil Basestock (API Group I) for not much more than cost of transportation to the lube producer.
Essentially they give it away FREE
How FREE gets to cost a $1.00
Oh MOTOR OIL costs more than 25 cents per quart!
At ridiculously high price of $42.00 per barrel of crude oil, a quart of crude is worth only 25 cents since a barrel of petroleum is a measure that is equivalent to 42 US Gallons.
In the old days, if there was too much of an undesirable petroleum by-product left from the refinery stream, the oil was burned, or pumped back into abandoned oil wells. Either practice has however since about 1985 been illegal in the USA. To export unneeded motor oil Basestock to other countries for dumping is way too expensive, except if you are very close to MEXICO.
The really BIG Oil Company like EXXON-MOBIL does not even consider motor oil Basestock to have any value.
Their FINISHED Motor Oil is sold almost for the cost of the packaging or the cost of transportation.
They can and do beat every other motor oil in the market place that is of the SAME quality level in price, every time!
It is virtually a non profit item, that because of the huge volume of Gasoline or Diesel oil sales these giants can afford to give motor oil away.
Now think of this, you need to get rid of stuff like Basestock oil as quickly as you can because you have no place to store it, and you will have more the next day, it just has to go somewhere…
When you are giving stuff away, free at or below "cost", would you strive to give to the recipient the HIGHEST POSSIBLE QUALITY?
Or would you choose the MINIMUM ACCEPTABLE QUALITY?
But even when the actual lube Basestock is FREE it costs to package it (oil bottle cost about 15 cents, the cap about 4 cents and the labeling about 20 cents), transport it (One quart of Motor Oil weighs in at about 2 pounds) and market it (Advertising costs are the major cost of finished Motor Oil).
Of course the merchant or mechanic that sells you the oil wants to make few pennies of profit, so now the Motor Oil costs you $1.00
But you are getting just what you are paying for, the bottle, transportation and advertising, and not much more.
If you think that this $1.00 buys you engine protection, superior lubrication or anything else, quite frankly, you have been CONNED!
Con-clusion
Next time you are shopping for a "quality" major national brand petroleum motor oil, realize why companies like "Pennzoil - Quaker State" spend over $47 million annually on advertising to promote "3,000-mile Oil Change" and hope that consumers will buy their more expensive oil because they perceive it as "better".
However, now that you know better, and KNOW that you really paying for:
Packaging Shipping Advertising Sellers Profit
You know that there really is NOT too much real value in $1.00 Quart of Petroleum Motor Oil.
Do you really WANT to put it into your engine?
You certainly do NOT want to keep it there for very long, that is why the Oil Industry promotes the "3,000-mile Motor Oil Change" and that is why 95% of Professional Auto Mechanics agree that it is EXACTLY what you should do, because they have ALL seen what happens to your engine if you keep that $1.00 motor oil in your engine for just a bit longer than is safe.
Most vehicle owners and auto mechanics blame the "Dirt in a Motor Oil" for all the possible and inevitable engine ills.
But that is a BIG mistake, they should blame the Oil Companies for selling you in 21st century a product that is 72 years out of date for modern cars.
If I had the ambition, I'd reread the post. Basically the amount of petroleum in a container of oil is free, in a quality syn the actual cost of of the PAO and Ester is more. Both are overpriced due to lawyer fees, product liability and political correctness costs, taxes research... yada yada.. inherent in the product. From that standpoint-both are overpriced.
Today at my local Meijer store, I saw Valvoline All-Climate (their petrol-based "conventional" stuff) in a 5W20 weight. The strange part was, it was SJ-rated, not SL! This seems totally backwards or weird to me. I took the bottle off the shelf and checked it 3 times to make sure I wasn't seeing things.
Even stranger, the other grades (I looked only at 5W30 and 10W30) of Valvoline at the Meijer store were SL rated.
From what I've seen at various stores, the 5W20 oils are usually about 50 cents a quart more than the other weights-- e.g. Motorcraft 5W20 at Wal-Mart is $1.77/qt but 5W30 is $1.33. Isn't the 5W20 price premium because the 5W20 oils must contain some amount of synthetic to be so thin and still meet the SL requirements? At Meijer, the regular price of the Valvoline 5W20 was about a buck a case higher. The sale price ($14.28/case, or $1.19/qt) was the same for 5W20 as for the other weights.
Also at Meijer today, I noticed they carry Citgo Supergard. It's a very non-flashy bottle. Price: $1.13/qt, or 30-60 cents cheaper than the other conventional oils they carry (Quaker State, Castrol, Valvoline, etc.)
I think some of the oil companies jumped the gun on the SL standard, bringing out 5-20 oils before the standard was finalized. My suspicion is that this is close to or actually meets the standard. They're just probably clearing out old stock.
Putting it another way, didn't Ford and Honda recommend 5W20 during their 2001 model years? The SL standard wasn't required until 2002.
This is just a guess. I really have no real insights.
All other factors being "equal" or neutral, the better buy is the SL over the SJ if the price is the same, but I don't see a problem for any of us continuing to use our shelf stocks of SJ until they're gone. I have also noted that in my locale the stores are still selling a lot of SJ in many viscosities. I will avoid buying any more SJ, having read the 76 Oil Company Internet posting comparing SJ and SL.
I try to keep up on this one, but the engineering discussion now and thenis a bit further down on my interest level. I'm more mechanical and computer. Anyway, do try to get the latest acrobat since some of the tables will not convert well. If not, let me know.
Crazee Bob, I don't think too many of us want to be cheap for the sake of being cheap. I know that isn't me.
Heck, I'm a wacko who uses $8-per-quart Red Line oil in a 6+ year old Honda Civic DX. >:^O
But most of us here resent paying a higher price for a product that is the same as a lower-price alternative of equal quality.
We all know a lot of these companies spend a dizzying amount of money on useless (to us) marketing and then there's other examples like Castrol that continues to charge $4-4.50 for Syntec even though they halved their cost of production. <:^(
So, if we think the quality is the same (and there's reason to believe this in many cases) why pay more? You often cite reasons to use a synthetic blend instead of a pure synthetic ... and the same principle is evident in that advice as well. >;^)
I have a 1966 Mustang with too many miles. This thing burns oil like crazy. About a quart per fill up.
I also have a 1991 Acura with 175,000 mile that was begining to burn about a quart every 600-700 miles. At the last oil change, the quick lube place put in 10-30. This is afer ten years of 5-30. I didn't notice anything different in the car other than it has not lost any oil in 2,000 miles.
Could changing from 10-40 to 20-50 do this for my Mustang?
IMHO that's what STP is for. Squeezing a few more miles out of an engine that's just about to bite the big one. So what if all that zinc wrecks converters? You don't have any.
I use 4.5 qts of 10w40 and .5 qt of STP in my 1989 Nissan truck with 182000 miles on it now. If there is no overheating issues STP should be ok, but if the engine has heat issues during the summer you may want to use 20w50 instead...I would NOT recommend STP for hot engines or extended drain intervals, but for non-overheating and 3k (or less) drains, it should be fine. I used to live in Florida, only used 20w50 down there--winter and summer. see ya
I'd try the 20W-50 first, and then the STP if the first solution is inadequate. A 1966 Mustang could easily be a car worth salvaging. Have you looked into an overhaul?
Effective series of steps and explanations there, b'istheo'guy! That should improve the knowledge base of readers who know little about the functioning of an engine's internal parts.
This post was dropping fast so I thought I'd restate a question kicked around the synthetic oil board.
Apparently SJ oil has less wear protection than SH, SL improved on SJ, but the next change due in 03 will greatly cut protection levels to save cat. converters.
A simple way of increasing protection is ZDDP, the most common zinc additive is in STP.
I'm rethinking my use of STP which I had relegated to high mileage beaters. Maybe STP is the only way to get adequate wear protection into the next generation of oil.
My assumption is that the next generation of converter will be cheaper but easier to damage.
I'm troubled, however, by the warnings of Mark Salem (also posted on the syn. board) that weight does matter and that heavy weight oil is like peanut butter (creamy or crunchy?) and also that filter media are designed for a particular weight oil (real scarey if true).
Better forms of zinc are in the pipeline and other additives are being developed. That coupled with the fact that oils will be required to last at least 12.5K miles. I wouldn't worry yet.
This is where it is at, for the moment. I am concerned that extreme pressure additives are where we need to put our attention. My understanding up to this point is that Molybdenum has been dropped by oil blenders due to "?" what, a lowering of gasoline mileage? I sent an information request to STP on Sunday (through their web site), and have received no response yet. I suspect I won't.
I dont really care about the manufactuers recomendations, though I drive a 91 chevy 305, I use 5w-30 in winter, and 10w-30 in summer. I just use regular oil and change it about every 2-3000 (compulsive). I used to alwase use moble but recently tryed castrol GTX and its holding up much better, its been about 800miles and the oil is still golden like a fresh change. My valve seals are leaky, which is why I like thicker oil, leaks a little less I notice in cold weather at least. Since the castrol oil though I dont notice my valve seals leaking, the oil is still the perfect amound and it doesnt smoke when I start it up. I'm now a castrol GTX fan, no more of that filthy Moble.
I did find one, however for Rislone (their viscoscity improver Ringseal, not the normal thin Rislone in the yellow bottle)-- can someone figure out what this really says? Obviously they have STP in there as a comparison.
It just may be that we have little to nothing to worry about, and that SL alone will suffice to protect adequately for engine wear. For a margin of protection suitable for the aficianado, I hope some company will come forth with a dash of MoS² in their product for us to add. No word for 5 days from STP, and that makes me think they want to obfuscate the contents of the product, or they don't want to bother replying, or they never got my email...
Such little faith I exhibited! I'll take 50 lashes with a wet noodle. In today's mail, I received a personal response from David Lewis who is a product claim specialist for Consumer Services of Oakland, California:
"Thank you for contacting us to discuss our product, STP Oil Treatment. We appreciate your question: The STP Oil Extender product in the Gold Bottle added the Molybdenum disulfide you seek and another additive; zinc dialkyldithiophosphate in slightly higher concentrations than today's SJ rated motor oils. Unfortunately, the label does not list the Molybdenum additive. The label lists an olefin copolymer viscosity enhancer by mistake. The viscosity index improver is present in the original formula blue bottle but not the extender product. The labeling graphics department regrets the error. We have pulled the product because of the mislabeling error. You may be able to locate the oil extender in secondary distribution such as drug stores, rest stops, dollar discount stores etc...."
They also sent me a coupon. So there we have it. If the product is not available, it will be, when the labelling is corrected. I am very pleased with the results thus far.
Exxon Superflo oils? They seem VERY reasonable priced, i.e. $1.29 for dino and $3.19 for "synthetic" (whatever that means)? The "New Formula" of dino is SL rated, if that means anything... TIA
1. I assume this was the 6000 mile oil extender that was on the shelves last year? Wonder what happened to it. You mean they'd pull it off the shelves because it didn't mention Molybdenum disulfide? Most of their customers wouldn't know the difference and if the omission violated some kind of federal reg. why is it still on the secondary market? If anyone finds it at Dollar General, Family Dollar or one of the nothing over a buck stores let us know which one.
2. I had wondered out loud several months ago whether the Exxon oil was going to be identical to Mobil but at a different price point. If so, that would be a real good deal. Of course Pennzoil, Quaker State and Wolf's Head all have different spec. sheets so probably not.
on a 4000 mile change schedule. I believe modern SL oils can handle that fine. If Wal-Mart changes suppliers to Mobil/Exxon or anything else I'll change. My only rule in life is to avoid Fram oil filters at all costs. I've been suprised by some of the negatives coming out about Mobil 1, but you have to remember that most people have better things to do with their lives other than muse about oils. We're all a bit strange here.
The "olefin copolymer viscosity enhancer" listed on the label of the STP Oil Extender was not correct. That chemical is NOT in the product. They retrieved the product for relabelling for that reason. I am happily using Exxon Superflo 10W-30 in my 1996 Chrysler Concorde 3.5L, and find no fault with it at all. I bought mine in 5 quart jugs, and have a few remaining to use.
Comments
I figure that SL oil changes for $7 every 3,750 miles is going to be just about impossible to beat and/or justify trying to use synthetic and keep up with who is putting what in their "synthetic". Since both of my vehicles are garaged in the winter and we don't even have that many mornings with temperatures below 20 degrees and I am driving Hondas that rarely get over 3500 rpm for extended periods of time that it is a nobrainer to go with the Chevron and a Champion filter.
Three months ago I put in Valvoline, 5W-30 Durablend in my oldest car (1988 172K). The engine runs very quiet and smooth. I immediately noticed the difference. I've only had to add about half a cup of oil to keep it at the top most level of full. This crazy oil even cleaned off the fine coat of varnish that has been on the dipstick for years.
This is also designed to reduce sludge.
mrdetailer-- I agree fully. Pick your SL purchases based on price among the well known brand names of engine oil.
pjksr, thanks for that little tidbit. Any kind of info that suggests qualitative differences between the brands is always helpful. >:^)
Unfortunately, I've been lax in researching the non-synthetics. Mr. Detailer, I'd expect all SL oils to be very good but I still think there is room for some to be better than others. One brand could be 50% hydrocracked Group II base stocks while another could be a higher percentage Group II or perhaps even Group III. Discerning the differences, though, is going to be tricky.
As for costs, I initially noticed higher prices when SL oils first hit the shelves but they've seem to come down since then a bit. Perhaps they were testing the waters? Even then, I saw oil starting to creep up towards $1.50-$1.75 per quart about a year or more ago.
It sure does pay to shop around!
--- Bror Jace
With a 6mo. dump and $2.50 Puro-Prem filter for my Civic, that's a $4.22 oil change. Who says you pay more for brand name anymore.
brorjace: Hey! Nothing wrong with the deal you got on Chevron up there at Waldomart!
who makes it - I sometimes wonder if you get better quality control with a name brand like Mobile or whatever at 1.08 a quart rather than the Super tech at 84 cents a quart.
who makes that s t oil or does it change each month?
It then gets pumped to a refinery..
The refinery cracks the barrel of oil to different levels of base stock...
Then it is transported to the oil blender..
Then it has additives blended, and spot tested...
Then it is bottled in plastic bottles.
Then packaged into cases..
Then trucked to a wharehouse..
Then trucked to the store..
Then put on the shelves..
Hmmmmm.... makes me wonder, for a .84 to 1.08 oil, what cost the most? the oil or the cost to package and ship it there?
I find it amusing to see people who pay 15 to 30,000 for a car/truck then look for the lowest price oil. It's not just indivuals that do this, even when I talk to companies, They too have this same attitude, if you're cheaper we'll buy.
It's not the cost of the oil you should be worried about BUT the cost to USE the oil.
Long term effects for using a lower grade oil vs the short term cost savings from a cheap oil.
Any way, I'll get off my soap box.
Have a good day.
bob
I really stopped trying to convince people to use syn oil a long time ago due to this principle.
Later,
Al
Almost daily in any financial news item you hear a quote of how much is a Barrel of Crude Oil being sold to producers of petroleum products.
Very few people are aware that a barrel of petroleum is a measure that is equivalent to 42 US Gallons.
The price of a Barrel of Crude Oil hovers at about in $20.00 to $30.00 range. That is 12 to 18 cents per Quart.
The long term average is ONLY about 15 cents.
Even at ridiculously high price of $42.00 per barrel of crude oil, a quart of crude oil is worth ONLY 25 cents!
Gasoline and Diesel is the main reason for sucking petroleum crude from the ground, and since it is the most in demand petroleum product, it brings the MOST MONEY and MOST PROFIT for any oil company.
And you know that even with Local, State and Federal taxes and the cost of transportation you can buy Gasoline anywhere in the USA for less than $2.00 per gallon or 50 cents per quart.
Motor Vehicle Fuel (Gasoline and Diesel) is a product that is in DAILY DEMAND and in the USA at least,
WE CAN NOT LIVE WITHOUT!
Some undesirable fractions are left; they range from Petroleum Gas to Tar and Asphalt.
Some of this undesirable stuff is heavy oil, from which ONLY lubricants can be economically made.
If supply matched the demand for this lube oil Basestock, life would be just lovely!
Motor Oil is at best only in Quarterly Demand, or even Semi Annual.
Typical vehicle will burn about 100 to 150 gallons of Fuel before it will consume 1 gallon of Motor Oil due to Oil Change.
Unfortunately, there is presently far more low-grade lube oil stock available than the world needs.
More and more of Petroleum Lube Basestock is available daily, as vehicles use LESS oil each year, and are driven more so they burn MORE fuel, but use LESS motor oil. The lube oil stock essentially becomes a worthless commodity, which becomes a nuisance to get rid off.
Major Oil Companies "sell" lube oil Basestock (API Group I) for not much more than cost of transportation to the lube producer.
Essentially they give it away FREE
How FREE gets to cost a $1.00
Oh MOTOR OIL costs more than 25 cents per quart!
At ridiculously high price of $42.00 per barrel of crude oil, a quart of crude is worth only 25 cents since a barrel of petroleum is a measure that is equivalent to 42 US Gallons.
In the old days, if there was too much of an undesirable petroleum by-product left from the refinery stream, the oil was burned, or pumped back into abandoned oil wells. Either practice has however since about 1985 been illegal in the USA. To export unneeded motor oil Basestock to other countries for dumping is way too expensive, except if you are very close to MEXICO.
The really BIG Oil Company like EXXON-MOBIL does not even consider motor oil Basestock to have any value.
Their FINISHED Motor Oil is sold almost for the cost of the packaging or the cost of transportation.
They can and do beat every other motor oil in the market place that is of the SAME quality level in price, every time!
It is virtually a non profit item, that because of the huge volume of Gasoline or Diesel oil sales these giants can afford to give motor oil away.
Now think of this, you need to get rid of stuff like Basestock oil as quickly as you can because you have no place to store it, and you will have more the next day, it just has to go somewhere…
When you are giving stuff away, free at or below "cost", would you strive to give to the recipient the HIGHEST POSSIBLE QUALITY?
Or would you choose the MINIMUM ACCEPTABLE QUALITY?
But even when the actual lube Basestock is FREE it costs to package it (oil bottle cost about 15 cents, the cap about 4 cents and the labeling about 20 cents), transport it (One quart of Motor Oil weighs in at about 2 pounds) and market it (Advertising costs are the major cost of finished Motor Oil).
Of course the merchant or mechanic that sells you the oil wants to make few pennies of profit, so now the Motor Oil costs you $1.00
But you are getting just what you are paying for, the bottle, transportation and advertising, and not much more.
If you think that this $1.00 buys you engine protection, superior lubrication or anything else, quite frankly, you have been CONNED!
Con-clusion
Next time you are shopping for a "quality" major national brand petroleum motor oil, realize why companies like "Pennzoil - Quaker State" spend over $47 million annually on advertising to promote "3,000-mile Oil Change" and hope that consumers will buy their more expensive oil because they perceive it as "better".
However, now that you know better, and KNOW that you really paying for:
Packaging
Shipping
Advertising
Sellers Profit
You know that there really is NOT too much real value in $1.00 Quart of Petroleum Motor Oil.
Do you really WANT to put it into your engine?
You certainly do NOT want to keep it there for very long, that is why the Oil Industry promotes the "3,000-mile Motor Oil Change" and that is why 95% of Professional Auto Mechanics agree that it is EXACTLY what you should do, because they have ALL seen what happens to your engine if you keep that $1.00 motor oil in your engine for just a bit longer than is safe.
Most vehicle owners and auto mechanics blame the "Dirt in a Motor Oil" for all the possible and inevitable engine ills.
But that is a BIG mistake, they should blame the Oil Companies for selling you in 21st century a product that is 72 years out of date for modern cars.
Wal-Mart (Douglas) tires are Kelly-Springfield (Goodyear).
Wal-Mart and Target (Car and Driver) filters are Champion Labs. K-Mart Filters are Wix.
Even stranger, the other grades (I looked only at 5W30 and 10W30) of Valvoline at the Meijer store were SL rated.
From what I've seen at various stores, the 5W20 oils are usually about 50 cents a quart more than the other weights-- e.g. Motorcraft 5W20 at Wal-Mart is $1.77/qt but 5W30 is $1.33. Isn't the 5W20 price premium because the 5W20 oils must contain some amount of synthetic to be so thin and still meet the SL requirements? At Meijer, the regular price of the Valvoline 5W20 was about a buck a case higher. The sale price ($14.28/case, or $1.19/qt) was the same for 5W20 as for the other weights.
Putting it another way, didn't Ford and Honda recommend 5W20 during their 2001 model years? The SL standard wasn't required until 2002.
This is just a guess. I really have no real insights.
I had a problem with the plug-in when trying to view the file. Any chance you'd be willing to copy some of the key text here?
Heck, I'm a wacko who uses $8-per-quart Red Line oil in a 6+ year old Honda Civic DX. >:^O
But most of us here resent paying a higher price for a product that is the same as a lower-price alternative of equal quality.
We all know a lot of these companies spend a dizzying amount of money on useless (to us) marketing and then there's other examples like Castrol that continues to charge $4-4.50 for Syntec even though they halved their cost of production. <:^(
So, if we think the quality is the same (and there's reason to believe this in many cases) why pay more? You often cite reasons to use a synthetic blend instead of a pure synthetic ... and the same principle is evident in that advice as well. >;^)
--- Bror Jace
By the way: The use of Red Line rather than ANY non-ester is a definite sign of high intelligence. (:oÞ
This thing burns oil like crazy. About a quart per fill up.
I also have a 1991 Acura with 175,000 mile that was begining to burn about a quart every 600-700 miles. At the last oil change, the quick lube place put in 10-30. This is afer ten years of 5-30. I didn't notice anything different in the car other than it has not lost any oil in 2,000 miles.
Could changing from 10-40 to 20-50 do this for my Mustang?
If there is no overheating issues STP should be ok, but if the engine has heat issues during the summer you may want to use 20w50 instead...I would NOT recommend STP for hot engines or extended drain intervals, but for non-overheating and 3k (or less) drains, it should be fine.
I used to live in Florida, only used 20w50 down there--winter and summer.
see ya
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oilshear.htm
Apparently SJ oil has less wear protection than SH, SL improved on SJ, but the next change due in 03 will greatly cut protection levels to save cat. converters.
A simple way of increasing protection is ZDDP, the most common zinc additive is in STP.
I'm rethinking my use of STP which I had relegated to high mileage beaters. Maybe STP is the only way to get adequate wear protection into the next generation of oil.
My assumption is that the next generation of converter will be cheaper but easier to damage.
I'm troubled, however, by the warnings of Mark Salem (also posted on the syn. board) that weight does matter and that heavy weight oil is like peanut butter (creamy or crunchy?) and also that filter media are designed for a particular weight oil (real scarey if true).
I sent an information request to STP on Sunday (through their web site), and have received no response yet. I suspect I won't.
There are plenty of people here who will tell you that the oil's clear appearance on the dipstick is not an indicator of how good a job it's doing.
http://www.rislone.com/ringseal-data.htm
Of course, I have been using a non API certified oil for the past 10 years
"Thank you for contacting us to discuss our product, STP Oil Treatment. We appreciate your question:
The STP Oil Extender product in the Gold Bottle added the Molybdenum disulfide you seek and another additive; zinc dialkyldithiophosphate in slightly higher concentrations than today's SJ rated motor oils. Unfortunately, the label does not list the Molybdenum additive. The label lists an olefin copolymer viscosity enhancer by mistake. The viscosity index improver is present in the original formula blue bottle but not the extender product. The labeling graphics department regrets the error. We have pulled the product because of the mislabeling error. You may be able to locate the oil extender in secondary distribution such as drug stores, rest stops, dollar discount stores etc...."
They also sent me a coupon. So there we have it. If the product is not available, it will be, when the labelling is corrected. I am very pleased with the results thus far.
TIA
2. I had wondered out loud several months ago whether the Exxon oil was going to be identical to Mobil but at a different price point. If so, that would be a real good deal. Of course Pennzoil, Quaker State and Wolf's Head all have different spec. sheets so probably not.
I am happily using Exxon Superflo 10W-30 in my 1996 Chrysler Concorde 3.5L, and find no fault with it at all. I bought mine in 5 quart jugs, and have a few remaining to use.