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Honda Accord problems
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I find it amazing that Honda has not pulled these affected autos from their inventory and are still selling them - even though the transmissions have to be changed almost immediately. I'll tell you the truth. The sales general manager at my dealer told me straight out - "Buyer beware". However, he told me this after he sold me the Honda. I wish he said this before :-). Well I am sure we have not heard the last of this story.
Rich
For those of you who stay up nights and get ulcers worrying about something that may or may not happen (see richrf) get a life and relax. Hell, we could all get hit by a bus tommorrow, but we don't worry about it or we wouldn't leave the house. So if you got a problem, get it fixed and go on without worrying that the fix is worse than the problem. We all go through life repairing things and they work just fine (including parts of our own bodys) Also, for those of you, like me, who think they got a pretty trouble free car, dont' lie awake that your car will develop these problems by osmosis.
If something does gowrong, have it fixed, that's why the have warrantees.
I have said this before in another topic.
All speedometers are wrong.
It is just a factor by how much. Not just Japanese cars either. When my boss did a project to test various radar and laser guns they found that EVERY car used in the test had inaccurate speedometers. And most of the cars in the test WERE AMERICAN CARS.
In fact my boss tried his Trans Am out. His speedometer said 131mph. Know what both the radar and laser guns said? Try 115mph!
Sooo, according to your logic... answer this question:
If the Trans Am is an American car sold to a lead footed American and is a car meant to go fast how can the speedometer be wrong, by that much even?
BTW, this was done multiple times and tested by several radar AND laser guns, and the same inconsistency between the guns and speedometers was there EVERY time.
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Do not let these small things bother or you will not be happy with any car you get ...especially since it will have the same problem, unless manufacturers find a way to fix this problem. Just go the speed of traffic, and if you do get pulled over ...tell the policeman/woman that the speedometer is off and that the Dealer said they won't fix it. So as long as you are not way over, you should not have many problems... unless the cop is having a bad day. Yeah, we do have cops that'll pull you over for going 1mph over the speed limit just to fill their quota. Does not happen often, but at times it does.
But it is not likely I would forego buying a car for this speedometer inconsistency problem, much less complain about it. Plus, if I had a perfectly accurate speedometer than I'd have one less excuse to give that cop looking to fill his quota. =P
Rich
There was no useful information for others with the transmission problem. I could care less what your general contractor THINKS. Post useful information while you are bashing ...at the very least!
For someone who HATES their car and wants to be rid of it ASAP, you sure do spend a lot of time in Accord topics bashing, criticizing, and helping others complain.
...rather than spending the least amount of time thinking of something that is a Pain in the Rump.
My co-worker gets an adjustment on his Taurus' transmission sometimes as much as 3 times a week but at least once a month ...and I have yet to hear him go on and on like you do. He complains but not everyday ...just those days he is out of a car and for like 5min. He does NOT even condemn Ford like you do Honda.
Lets at least try to be productive here. This is the forum for owners to find out HOW to fix their problems.
***Make sure your dealer is properly set-up for this work***
Before I explain, please understand that my post is in no way intended to either scare people off or to slam or condem Honda or their dealerships. OK?
I had the reverse clunk prolem. You can read all about that problem in other posts. Being armed with information from all of you good people on these forums I was able to get my dealer to order the new transmission for my 2000 EX-V6. It took about 7 days to arrive and we scheduled my appointment. I was told initially that the swap would take approximately one full working day and that if I brought it in early enough I might just get it back that nignt. I told them don't worry about the time it takes. During this same visit they were also going to look into my wind noise issue because I have some definate leaks coming from the passengers side. At all points in the process, my service writer was very professional, courteous, and followed through with everything he promised. You know...the kind of person I would like to have working for me.
And now the fun begins. I took the car to the dealership at 10:00 am on the scheduled day. The technician assigned to my car was telling me that these are pretty tough ones to install. I asked why and he explained that they were very heavy and hard to manipulate. I asked if he had a car jack and he said they did but it could only get the trans close to a point, then he and a assistant would manipulate it the final distance and align and bolt in place. I'm sure I looked puzzeled because he said there is nothing to worry about, he had done three replacements already this year.
Bottom line? I got a call back from the dealer at 1:30 p.m., just 3.5 hrs. after I had taken in. He said the car was ready. I was startled at first and asked if they had the opportunity to look at the air leak problem as well. They said yes, everything is ready. I wasn't able to pick the car up until that evening, after dark. the service personal had gone home for the day, and only the manager was on hand to deliver the car.
When I started it up it seemed that the engine noise level was higher than before but I thought It was just my imagination. I drove off and after a few miles I noticed a low level whining sound from the transmission as I was pulling away after a stop sign or light. The sound dissapeared after gaining speed because the wind noise was masking it. The wind noise was modified somewhat by their adjustment but was still annoying and still emenating from the passengers side in the rear. I noticed also that the transmission was now shifting at different power points and was haging on too long between different gears. When I got the car home and in the garage I noticed greasy finger prints all over the body of the car. Then I noticed the grease prints and streaks on the drivers seat and on the steering wheel.
Summary. I've written Honda about this experience and initially swore not to return to my dealer. My initial reaction was to return to the dealer and demand that they perform the job correctly. Then it dawned on me. They can't. If they were able to, it would have been done correctly in the first place. In fact one of the comments made to me the morning of the work was to bring it in today, We are really slow today (in terms of work load).
My warning is that you need to be sure that your dealer is capable of performing this work. I have to believe that the vast majority of dealerships have capable personal and the proper equipment on hand. You owe it to yourself to be sure they do. Use my story as an example. Also, because I don't want to cause any undo alarm here I have not seen any other posts with problems relating to the replacement transmissions. I really want to assume mine is an isolated incident.
People buy Hondas because of reliability. In addition, they don't buy them to be treated like imbeciles. I would never visit that dealer.
Guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
Now, with my new Honda Accord, I have problems such as the fuel boil over problem (that is sooner or later going to have to be addressed), wind noise, and a remote key that only sometimes works. I am also in the timeframe of the "bad transmission problem" (2000 EX V6 built in 9/99) so I can be hit by that problem at any time. Unfortuntely, it is going to be really tough avoiding the poor dealerships in this area, if I keep the car.
No doubt I was naive when I depended upon American Honda to keep their dealers in line. They really don't. My next car I am going to buy from dealers that I know are good and that is where I am going to start. There are great Lexus, BMW, and Saab dealers in this area and I will look for others such as Nissan, Volkswagon, etc. This is where I am going to start when determining what cars are going to be on my short list for future purchases.
Hint: An excellent way to determine whether a dealer is good is by observing how the sales staff supports each other. If they work as a "team" then the dealership is promoting a healthy, happy atmosphere. If they are a bunch of baracuda's at each other's throats, then the dealership is unhealthy and the same attitudes will be reflected in service.
Rich
I have a situation that I hope you can help out with. Ref to my post # 59 if you haven't already read about my transmission replacement experience.
When I initially went to my dealer with the reverse clunk problem I mentioned to the service writer that a number of individuals on these forums were stating their dealerships were telling them the reverse clunk was normal and not to worry about it. Basically, they were playing dumb to the situation. Since my dealer admitted the problem was well know, and that Honda was offering replacement transmissions, I asked what the motivation was for some dealers to act as if there were no problem. His answer supprised me. He said that Honda reimburses the dealers labor cost (for warranty work) at a flat rate which is often substantially lower than the shops normal labor rates. He said some shops, especially if they are very busy, give the lowest priority to warranty work and if the work is labor intensive, they will avoid or prolong it if possible. The second issue with warranty work is that Honda supplies the replacement parts, such as the transmission, and the dealer also looses their profit margin on parts sales which can be substantial (30+%).
This concept make perfect sence to me, comming from a business management background, but am wondering what your opinion is on my situation. My dealer initially said the transmission replacement would take one full day to complete. They then called me back after only three hours and said they were finished. The workmanship was terrible and the trans does not work properly. Do think they could have basically rammed it through to save money on labor cost hoping to maybe break even on the proposition?
As for you observations that all Chicago land Honda dealers are jerks, have you tried all of them? Have you tried to get the Honda zone office involved, or, do you just like to whine. For all you time you've spent fuming and whining, you could have driven to Marysville, OH and had the factory look at your car.
As for your observation about "team" dealers or "barracudas", you haven't got a clue. I've worked in dealerships and 90% of them have good people who work together trying to insure the customer is happy and will bring repeat business.
Otherwise, you don't stay in business long.
AS for Lexus, BMW, SAAB dealers, etc., they are always happy because they are no haggle dealers. You would be to if everything you sold went out at full list sticker (say huge profit margin).
Just for grins, since you bought a 528i for yourself and love your BMW dealer, why didn't you buy your wife a 323i. I looked at them and they are fine autos, but at $35,258 they should be. So let us not compare $35,000 autos to $23,000 autos (approx what I paid for my Accord). Either pony up or shut up.
I know what it is like to be treated like that, and yeah I would guess they rushed. After my friend told me how flat rate mechanics work, I am not surprised at all ...disgusted, but not surprised.
So far I have only seen the service department for an oil change. The car's interior was clean EXCEPT for two small oil spots on that plastic charcoal liner by the door. Well at least you have to look for them ...found them by cleaning the interior after a small snow storm. They did give my car a wash at the time of the oil change ...and I did appreciate that. I was shocked to see it actually. I am not used to that, small things like that actually mean a lot to me.
I am about to take the car in for its 7500 mile wheel rotation and whatever else it might need ...so I'll have to see if they do a good job keeping the car clean.
How good they are with major stuff I do not know. Might be worth inquiring about after reading your post ...just in case.
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jin_satx:
I have to agree with you ...I think you are almost buying dealer service as much as a car. My dealership is a no haggle dealership ...and SO FAR, I think they are great. Even the other sales people know who I am when I walk through the door ...kinda scary actually.
Before TTL I paid $22,997 for my EX V6 Coupe. I probably could of haggled a better price at another dealer, but I have heard BAD things about them. To me, it is worth the extra couple hundred for a dealer I can somewhat trust.
BTW, that other Honda dealer makes you sign the paperwork BEFORE you negotiate!! So needless to say, I did not even visit them.
My original comment about "no haggle" dealers was in no way to infer you get bad deals from them, and are great for people who hate haggling or are not great negotiators. Most of these dealers try to make a fair profit on every unit they sell. My comment to richrf was about the "high-end" dealers (BMW,etc) as they sell at full list or very close, so they are the ultimate no haggle and should love every customer they get because of their huge profit margins. The "no haggle" Honda dealer in my town, offers fair discounts for non haggle buyers, but since I have been in and out of the car business in the last five years, I can usually get a better price on my own and I dont't haggle, I know all the tricks, prices, incentives,etc. and either I get the reasonable price I want or I walk. If I get the four square & sign first treatment, I either deal with the sales manager or walk. Unfortunately, I get stuck negotiating deals for all my friends, co-workers, etc. and put together about 30 deals a year. I deal with dealers I trust and all are done over the phone. Even the trade-in's are negotiated after they have been appraised. The dealers like my business because they have a guaranteed buyer who signs the paperwork and drives off. Little less profit, but hell its a unit count to them.
For you Passat lovers, here is a curve. I still love my accord, but since my wife is changing jobs and will loose her company car, I'm giving her the accord. I agree with you guys that the Passat is great, but for my wife its just too much car/price. However, for me, I like it. Just negotiated a deal on a 2000 Passat glx v6 with four motion and triptronic auto for a great price. MSRP 30,905, my price 100 over invoice, approx 28,600. Probably will lease, great dynamics, 39 mths, 15k per year, free gap protection, all for 412 per month (I pay TTL down). What do you guys think, should I go for it.
P.S. - The other VW dealer in my town is a jerk. Bad service and sales games, never gets my business, dont't know why he tries. He wants 500 over sticker because they are a bargin and are in great demand. Know your dealers, be nice, offer a small but fair profit, be reasonable with your trade and you to can negotiate a great deal. Then be sure to send your friends there, they will love you.
Check out the write-up in the Feb edition of C&D. The Acura 3.2TL topped out in the BEST10 class beating the Lexus ES300, Chrysler M300, Volvo.... Pass on the Passat and go with the Acura.
BTW: I agree with you fully in regards to the bafoon, I mean richf.
Read the same article you did and the tl was in the running right up to the end. However, I looked at the tl when I got the wifes accord a few weeks ago, nice competent car, bland like the accord and I want something different for me. I always liked the way german cars road and handled, and unlike richrf, I like firm supportive seats. In the end I like the PASSAT more, personal preference I guess. Also, TL dealer could not even come close to my Passat deal.
Passat GLX with triptronic auto, factory indash 6 CD changer and spoiler list price 30,105. (skipped the 4 motion I was originally offered - doesn't snow in san antonio - gas mileage and weight penalty).
Purchase price 27,300 if I wanted to buy. However, at this negotiated price, with me paying ttl (no other money down), I leased it for 380 a month for 39 months with 15k miles per year. No dropoff charge at end, special gap insurance and no security deposit and first month payment already made. Too good a deal to pass up. VW leases are really good on the Passat, great money factor plus VW is picking up the state sales tax.
Picking up the car friday afternoon, will keep you posted. Don't get me wrong, I still love the accord, but one accord and one Passat sounds like a happy family to me. I hope the VW is delivered in the same great condition as was my accord.
"four square and sign first treatment"
This is the first time I ever heard of this phrase. Would you please elaborate? Thanks
In many dealerships, a negotiating form is used that is divided into 4 sections (call by sales people a 4 square). These sections are price, down payment, trade-in value and monthly payment.
It is designed to find the customers "hot button" and determine how the negotiating process is to be "pushed" by the sales person. For example, many young car buyers are totally driven by monthly payment considerations, and in this case, price of the car is seldom discussed, but negotiations are driven by trying to arrive at the customers monthly payment. In other cases, the buyer may be driven by what he thinks his trade is worth and etc. etc, you get the picture.
Use of this process, which I hate, on intelligent buyers is an insult, they usually "bolt" from the chair after about 3 back and forth sessions. However, I must admit that about 75% of deals go this way because most buyers are not intelligent negotiators and it makes the most money for the dealership. Hell, some people don't even know what they actually paid for the car till they read their contract at home, they are just happly that they got 10k for their trade and a payment of 400.00. As for the "sign treatment", once the "hot button" determined, the sales person will then start the push in that direction and he will ask you something like the following. I don't know if I can get to 350.00 a month (you can push most people up by about 40 to 50 a month on their dream car), but would mind signing this form that if I can arrive at this payment you would be willing to buy the car. This tells my sales manager that you are serious and allows me to work harder for you, etc etc. etc. - yada yada yada.
By now I'm sure you get the picture of this type of dealership, which I'm sure you have run across. This is why the "no haggle" dealerships have sprung up. You know the price of the car, value of your trade, and the rest of the process such as payment is solely determined by your credit rating, down payment and the time of the loan. No tricks, no bullsh**t. The only drawback many times with no haggle is you get a fair price, but not a great price. Everbody can be a good negotiator if the take the following advice.
1) Know in advance what you can afford as a monthly payment. Remember, on a five year car note every 1k financed is about 20.00 a month.
2) Using this site or others, determine the price you will pay for the car, be realistic, all dealers must make some profit.
3) If you have a trade, call your bank and get payoff figures if needed. Also, using this site or others try to establish a fair trade-in value. Remember, if you are trying to pay wholesale for your new car, don't expect retail for your trade. There are only two ways to do a deal, inflate the trade and sell at sticker, or discount the new car and offer trade-in value on the trade. Either way the money is the same.
4) Once all this is done and you are happy with the price, trade-in value, down payment, etc. The rest is simply a function of money - ie your credit rating, no. of months to finance, etc.
Hope I have helped in some small way from keeping you from as we used to call it getting "slam dunked".
Well here I go shoving my foot in my mouth again. After all my bragging about my perfect 97 Camry on other posts, low and behold, I have aquired the highly published front strut noise symptom. But here is a classic example of the type of customer service you have talked about. My car is over three years old and out of warranty. However the mileage is less than the required 36,000. Toyota has a customer website where owners can report any problems or suggestions. They actually go out of their way to solicit direct customer feedback. I submitted a request to consider repairing this problem under wwarranty, because it is a known problem with some of the later models. I wasn't nasty, but just made a humble request. Within one day they emailed my case # and a phone number for me to call on the west coast. I called, explained the situation and the service writer said I would receive a follow-up within three days. Two days later (today) I got a call from one of the local dealers saying to bring the car in monday. The repair will be done under what they call a "good will warranty". No charge.
That makes me very happy indeed. They certainly do not have to make this repair because the front strut problem is not a recall or safety issue. It is simply noisy and irritating. Being that I am out of warranty, they could legally and techically tell me to take a hike. This is truly great customer service.
I can't in my case say that Honda is lacking here, because they did respond fast to my problems. It is just that they haven't been at all successful in actually making the required repairs. This is a reflection on my local dealer rather than Honda at this pont in time.
(Now, just so you know)
I had a 1986 Honda Accord LX and I made them put in a new transmission when I bought it used. (I ask the salesman to put in a "fix anything not up to specs" clause in the contract, and he did to his great regret). It "clunked" when put in reverse and made other squeeks and clicks so I made them change it. Well you know what, the new transmission "clunked" as well when put in reverse, I had it checked out by my Honda guy and he said it was the transmission mountings which made the "clunk", so I lived with it and never had a lick of trouble until I sold it after using it for 120k odd miles...
But I'm holding you up, go ahead with the "long and short" of the 2000 tranny clunk.....
This is very good news about Toyota. I was wondering whether there service was better or comparable to Honda. It seems that it is superior. If nothing else, they showed concern and got back to you. I can say that in all cases that I contacted American Honda, they showed total disinterest and never came back for a follow-up. Since, in the past year, I have had a chance to deal with a wide variety of manufacturers of all types (I did a remodeling as well as purchased two new cars), I can say that Honda - very surprisingly - ranks among the worse in customer service that I have had to deal with. They just don't seem to care at all.
Rich
In case you aren't aware of this, you can use the See All Responses choice just above the first post on this page to load the whole topic. At 77 posts, it shouldn't take more than a minute or so to load (at 56kbps). Then you can use your browser's search feature to scan for key words if you don't feel like scanning through the posts yourself.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
That way, the shop has some breathing room and the customer won't be calling every hour bugging them to see if the car is done.
And, no dealership really loves warranty work. It is, however a part of the job and it should be done cheerfully. Also, warranty customers are mailed a servey from Honda afterwards asking them to rate the store that did the work in several catagories. The survey scores are, or should be very important to that dealership!
It sounds like you need to have a chat with the Service Manager or the General Manager!
Good Luck!
The treatment I've gotten at Acura makes me think I own a much more expensive automobile than it really is.
Guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
The problem is that the car will exhibit a loud and easily felt clunk while it is moving in reverse (NOT when shifting into reverse). In my case, it was usually after the car had moved about 6 - 10 feet or so. It was strong enough that the first time I felt it, I thought I had hit or rolled over something. The clunk didn't develop over time... my car demonstrated it the first day I had it. I've heard that the problem seems to be limited to a relatively small production run of 2000 Accord V-6 and Odyssey models. My car had the problem, and was manufactured in October, 1999. The transmission was manufactured in Japan.
It is most certainly prominent enough so that you would realize that it isn't normal if you felt it. It is by no means a normal characteristic, since Honda has replaced the transmission for several owners on this forum (myself included) because of this problem. The latest word is that they found the problem, they know how to fix it (by replacing the transmission) and the problem has been corrected on the production line so it shouldn't reappear. Time will show if the production line fix has been effective.
Guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Also, I believe American Honda has a bulletin out to all dealers since it is a known problem and one that has to be fixed. All dealers should know about this problem at this time and just a week or two ago a buyer indicated that she purchased a car with this problem.
There is also a known problem with "fuel boilover" that affects all V6 engines in the colder climates. There is no fix for this problem as of yet.
Hope this helps.
Rich
Now, you understand why a defective car really gets me going, I help friends buy them and I try not influence them, but if they ask me which ones are the most reliable and trouble-free, 'BADABING' we are at the Honda/Toyota dealers.. So if Honda is having trouble with the EX V6, that is very important too know as I recommend these 2 brands to friend and foe alike. They are driving the market to better quality as they force the "other car brands" to match them, so if they are having a problem it will reflect very badly on them if they don't fix it/take care of the customers who bought it.
..and yes, I did tell my mother to get a Honda/Toyota , she blames my father for stopping at the Nissan "Oh, all the import makes are the same" and bestowing her with the opportunity to be a dealer service "assistant manager".
I have done some research into the law on this subject. And there is a Uniform Code that allows buyers to return the car immediately if the problem is discovered immediately. However, it is more problematic if the problem is discovered sometime later. Who knows, if someone can show that a dealer did know about the problem and still sold there care, there may be a case. Of course, retaining an attorney is very costly - which is what Honda and its dealers are counting on.
Rich
I agree with you that it's extremely "unhealthy" to reccomend defective makes to your friends and co-workers, etc., they will never let you forget it. I too am the middle man in negotiating about 30 vehicle purchases a year and I only deal with dealers and sales managers I trust and only on vehicles I trust to ge good. I don't have to like how they look, thats subjective, but I must believe in them. That said, I think you are getting the impression from this forum, that honda now builds bad cars with defects. This is not the case. Most of the inane moaning and complaining is from richrf, who doesn't have the tranny problem, and as for wind and road noise, that is subjective from driver to driver. The "fuel boil over problem" has only been described on two posts on this forum, richrf again, and the same goes for the supposed "remote entry" problem. Yes, people like tomhan have had a tranny problem, and unfortunately for him, his dealer is incompetent. If his new tranny had been properly installed, I'm sure he would be happy with his car, and, once the honda zone office gets involved (since tomhan is rational and reasonable) I'm sure his problem will be resolved. Simply speaking, don't trash the accord based on richrf's comments. He bought a car his wife liked, not him, and he has hated it since the day he got it. Also, most dealers and manufacturers try to work with customers, unless the become abusive and irrational like richrf (yes, I worked in the industry for 2 years and we tried to please everybody, but there are some J**Ks you just can't please).
I own a 00 ex-v6 and am extremely happy with the car. Mine was manufactured after the tranny problem was corrected, manu. date 01/00, so if you want to be safe, just make sure your friends buy one made after the first of the year. As for the tranny problem, honda will replace all problem transmissions, which were only a small part of the production run during OCT/NOV, just be sure the dealer replacing it is competent to do the job.
That all said, you can get a lemon in anything, just gave the accord to my wife as a present and bought a passat glx for me. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the passat, as their earlier reliablility is a question. Car is terrific and fun, just hope it is as reliable as my honda.
Be careful how you pick your dealer, a small amount on price is not worth it if you can't trust your dealer.
By the way, this super dealer has many dealerships in san antonio. They are under the ANCIRA name and would recommend them highly.
If an individual (such as myself) has a medical condition where they may need immediate and reliable transportation, there is the potential that the accord will not be able to provide it.
For some, this is no big deal, as the car can usually be started again within 20 min. For others, this is not the case. I'm confident that Honda will develop a fix. If I take the perspective of not trying to bash Honda in the process, posting this information is fair game and is absolutely a service to some potential buyers. Having the medical condition that I have, I would not have purchased this car if I had known about the problem ahead of time. It places my life in danger. I would have waited until a fix had been implemented, and then considered purchasing the car.
Again, I agree that some issues have been over played. But on a issue such as this I personally don't believe that it can be posted enough. Obviously I am heavily biased and I'm sure I am in a very small minority where this issue can be life threatening. I don't suggest that anyone decide against the accord because of the fuel boil over problem, but only to be aware so they can objectively decide whether to perhaps delay the purchase until a remedy is in place, should they have a situation similar to mine.
P.S. - Is your tranny problem being handled, keep me posted.
I am in the computer software development business, and I am wondering how you treat "percieved" problems. You can only treat real problems with real symptoms and real solutions. The problem with trying to correct "perceived" problems is that everybody has a different solution. If you point out that it's not a problem, some people think your lying, if you say a "fix" is in the works, people go "aha, there is a problem. This dilemma can go on forever. So if you have a bag full of solutions that will fix every car buyers "preceived" problems, let me know. We will build a web-site and get rich.
PS For a good example..MS 2000 will be real bear to install but you can be sure MS will back it up 100% and fight any perceived &/or real bugs.
I deal with software written specifically for my company's users and most "percieved" problems are really training issues. Real bugs get fixed. For off the shelf software, mostly inexpensive, I agree with you that it is sometimes easier to refund a customer, or replace the product with an upgraded version, than to agrue. However, we aren't talking about 25K automobiles and buyers remorse. most "perceived" problems with autos deal with the customer not getting what he/she thought they were getting. This includes buyers remorse, a friends new car they like better, feel they paid to much, etc. etc. No dealer can just replace a car because you don't like it, or you didn't expect the tire or wind noise. These things should have been resolved in the customers mind on the test drive. Yes, it is the repsonsiblility or the manufacturer and dealer to fix real problems, ie tomhans transmission and fuel problems, and, I'm sure honda will do everything possible. However, autos are not even like tv's you get home and then take back under the 30 day guarantee, they are to expensive to jsut replace because a customer "perceives" a problem because, in his/her mind, they made a mistake when they purchased the vehicle. If this were the case, we'd have thousands of autos an lots with 1k miles.
P.S. - When I bought my wifes previous 94 Galant, I did not like the car, she did. It had some real tranny problems that got fixed, but I could not expect them to fix "percieved" problems. The car ran fine as advertised and test drove, I just didn't like the car, eventually neither did my wife. This was not mitsus fault, but ours.
http://autopedia.com/
If you scroll down the mainpage, you will see a link to Lemon Laws at:
http://autopedia.com/html/HotLinks_Lemon.html
This site contains an excellent description of all of the legal rights that consumers have when purchasing automobiles. There are all types of laws to protect consumers from dealers and manufacturers who try to undermine the implicit warranties that come with purchasing new merchandise.
You can follow this site to another link at:
http://www.consumerlawcenter.net/
This is a law firm that handles legal claims in the Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin area. They give advice on how to handle "lemon" problems and you can call them to describe your problem to them. At no cost, they will review your situation and let you know whether you have a case. I am having them review the "fuel boilover" problem for me right now.
I highly recommend this site. It appears that in some cases, consumers who have reported problems on this forum could have immediately returned the auto to their dealer for a full refund. There are laws to protect consumers, it is just a matter of being aware of them. One thing to note, auto dealers are always in a hurry to get you to resell the lemon they sold you. This is the way they get off the "hook". Nasty little dealers.
Rich
You arrived at an interesting solution. Honda also suggested that for now, all we can do is try different manufacturers of fuel. They thought initially that the fuel problem was limited to Ohio and Illinois supplies, but I'm in Indiana, (God's armpit)and another person from New Jersey posted of having his dealer diagnos this problem.
I've been told that so far the problem is limited to the 2000 EX-V6. My dealer said Honda views it as a design issue since all other manufacturers vehicles run fine on this same fuel.
I'm still waiting for a response from Honda on the transmission. As posted earlier, I am very hesitant about returning to my dealer and letting them attempt to repair the car again.
Thanks for the interest.
Thanks for the info. I'm getting real busy here at work but will look into it tonight. Keep us posted on the results of your fuel boil over pursuit.
Tom