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Go Green By Driving It 'Til The Wheels Fall Off

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  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    edited September 2011
    You're a dealer's dream come true (and a jiffy lube owner too!) ;)

    I am curious as to how much you've paid in extended warranties in compared to how much in repairs were covered by those warranties...
  • djm2djm2 Member Posts: 712
    Hi Steve:
    Thank you for responding to my recent posting. I always like to exchange different ideas, especially when it comes to vehicle maintenance.

    1.) I document my oil and filter service at the selling dealer, because there are manufacturers who will deny warranty service "IF" you do not have this service performed at the dealership. (YES I KNOW IT IS AGAINST THE LAW to take this position, but some manufacturers say "take us to court!" I am NOT mentioning the manufacturer in this positing, but if you do a search on the "net"you will find stories about this American Manufacturer!)

    2.) I am not dumping fluids down the drain, as they are being recycled and used again! ---- I DO NOT extend my oil and filter changes. (I do not believe in extended oil and filter changes that are advocated by the manufacturer.) Just look at the horror stories of Toyota, VW and Chrysler to see the results of their extended oil and filter changes.

    3.) Where did you get the figure of $2,000.000? Please explain!

    4.) My vehicles are my office. ---- They must be at 100% at all times. With an extended warranty I am covered all over the United States. It is simply insurance for me!

    5.) After 100,000 miles, the chances of a failure of a major component are GREAT! I do not want to put thousands of dollars into a vehicle for a transmission problem or an engine problem. Not to speak about additional failures after the fact!

    6.) I believe in HIGH QUALITY automotive additives. BG / MOA is being used in many New Car Dealers and Private Repair Shops all over the United States. (I am not advocating that other people use these products. The choice to use or not to use these products rests with the vehicle owner. My 2007 Camry, at 68,000 miles, burns no oil between oil and filter changes at 2,500 miles, and there is no sign of sludge in the engine. (Toyota was known as a "sludge producer!") The oil on the dip stick is as clean as the day I took delivery in 2007. On a road trip, I get as high as 34mpg at 60 mph without the use of cruise control! ---- There are no noises in the engine on a "cold start up," ---- either in the Summer or Winter months!

    Best regards! ---------- Dwayne :shades: ;):)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think the only way an automaker would deny warranty with regard to outside oil changes is if you had no receipts whatsoever to prove that they were done. If you had documents to show all regular oil changes with the correctly designated oil, there would be no grounds, or cause, for a manufacturer to deny you warranty based on outside oil changes. The dealer is not the final word on this, the warranty is backed by the manufacturer, not the dealer.
  • djm2djm2 Member Posts: 712
    edited September 2011
    Hi Bobw3:

    In my life I have owned Ford, Chrysler, Honda, GM, and Toyota vehicles, all with extended warranties. ----- I have always at least broken even with the cost of the warranty, and in one case with 2003 Honda Accord, the extended warranty put in $3,000.00 dollars of repairs over 100,000 miles of ownership, --- (Motor Mounts, A/C Compressor, 2 Window Regulators, 3 Cat Converters, and a Radio----- I think I am a WINNER when it comes to extended warranties!

    Best regards! --------- Dwayne :shades: :D:) :confuse:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Hey, if you are that risk adverse than you should probab ly go ahead and spend all of those dollars for an extended warranty.

    That oil additive you are using is simply a big waste of money but it probably isn't doing any harm. Modern oils already have everything in them that is needed. Your Camry would be running the same way if you never used an additive. It is being "used" because it has a high profit markup.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I'd buy warranties on Euro makes just about to go out of warranty anyway. I did so on my E55, and I came out comfortably ahead in the end.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Very wise. One major repair on that E55 and you'd still be ahead.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    It's the old school AMG so it is actually better than many other models, but nothing is cheap. I bought the car with low miles, so it had some teething issues in the first couple years I owned it, stuff that would have likely been handled under warranty if the miles came up faster. The sunshade, cluster, and an AC hiccup paid for the warranty, and then a few months before it was up, I took it in and asked my mechanic to look for anything that could be fixed under warranty - of course he found a few things, and I came out easily ahead. Since then, not a dime in non-servicing related work, although I suspect engine mounts are coming soon.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    edited September 2011
    That's my "dream:" To have a car into high mileage since new. Thus far, I have taken several vehicles to >200,000 miles, but I have had none of them since day one. I purchased a 2010 Subaru Forester two years ago for my wife, so that will be my first candidate (and hopefully a successful one, at that). Right now, it is at a little under 32,000 miles. I have started discussing with her whether she wants to get an extended warranty on it. I'm leaning toward 'no,' but it won't cost me anything (directly) if we opt to buy one, so I'm keeping it on the table. So far, the only warranty issues have been squeaks/rattles (which were addressed and have not recurred) and a power steering hose failure.

    My personal commuter is a 1998 Escort, purchased a little over three years ago for $800 from a friend who was leaving the area. I have put ample funds into that car to get it into, and keep it in, good condition, but it is twice the car it was when I bought it. Including the purchase price, I'm probably closing in on $4,000 invested (aside from fuel, but including normal maintenance like tires, oil, etc.), which isn't too bad for 3+ years and ~45,000 miles. Today, the car is at ~150,500 miles, and I just replaced the engine mounts yesterday. I thought that might be a waste of time/effort/money, but was pleasantly surprised this morning at how smooth and quiet the car is now. The old parts didn't *look* bad, but the sure let a lot of vibration through to the chassis. Between that, the new tires, alignment, and struts I have put on it over the last year, and the car is coming dangerously close to feeling "like new."

    I don't want to imagine how much all of my work would cost at a shop, though. Yikes!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    She tried to start keeping them indoors, but they were used to being outdoor cats.....At the house, he didn't do TOO bad, until I got a new kitten. Then he started peeing down one of the furnace vents in the living room.....

    By & large, cats are very fastidious, clean creatures who love their human owners. That's part of the appeal. Then there's the very tiny %-age of psycho, peeing cats. (I found that out the hard way with my ex-G/F's psycho peeing cat). But as you found, it's a bad idea to try to turn an outdoor cat into an indoor cat, or vice-versa.

    As far as cars, I have a friend with a '97 accord with 87K miles who's poured many $thousands into that car over the last few years. A new auto trans for $3k (I would've told him to sell the car for parts). Endless suspension & brake repairs. He was a die-hard about keeping that car forever, until it broke down again late at night far from home with his wife & kids & she finally "put her foot down"......

    The weird thing about that, to me, is that he's probably spent more repair $$ on that old Honda than I have on 1 bmw & 1 saab that were 10-15 years old by the time I sold them. And add to that my current 11 y.o bmw, that I've spent maybe......$800 on for actual repairs in the 9 years I've owned it. (Not including preventative maintenence & routine replacement parts, that I might have spent $1200 on).

    And I guarantee you, if someone had as much trouble & expense with an aging bmw or benz as that old honda, it would have been blamed on "the high cost of maintaining a bmw or M-B".....
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited September 2011
    HIGHLY unusual for a Honda to have those kinds of problems. Once in awhile, a V-6 Accord will dump a transmission but almost never on a 4 cyl.

    Suspension and brake problems are unheard of.

    Don't get me going on aging BMW's!
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    I just got the major timing belt service done for my 2006 Audi A3 at just past 80,000 miles. Timing belt, serpantine belt, thermostat, water pump and the works.

    I think I'll take this car to 160,000 relatively trouble free miles and move on after that. I'd bet money it'll get there based on the first 82K miles.

    Extended warranty? No thank you. Complete and utter waste of money, as I simply don't buy trash that requires it. The only car I've had where it would have paid off was the 1995 Dodge Neon, and like I said, I learned my lesson and I don't buy trash anymore.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    edited September 2011
    Suspension and brake problems are unheard of.

    Well, this doesn't fall under brake problem, in my book it is a maintenance issue, but still, it is worth mentioning as it seems common:

    The brake pads in new Honda's last ONLY about 30K miles (and I'm easy on the brakes as a driver). So they are guilty of using SHORT lifespan brake pads, and the 60-0 stopping distances don't justify the shorter life! :cry:
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • gouldngouldn Member Posts: 220
    I've found that the extended warranty for me has never paid off. I didn't get one for the Forester, and the first major repair occurred at 107K, so I wouldn't have made ANY claims against it.

    A long time (1996) ago I bought a 3 year old Audi and sprung for an aftermarket warranty (I know ... learned my lesson) The car had plenty of items that should have been covered, but it was always a battle to get any $$ out of GE Warranty. Never again for me.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Ha, I'd of never bought an Audi pre-2000. As of 2006 they were making top of the line stuff which explains why they are breaking their US sales records year after year lately.

    Granted, I haven't kept any cars 100K miles yet. The A3 is actually the most miles I've ever driven or put on any one car, and it's at 82,000 miles or so. It will be the first one to reach 100K miles (knock on wood that someone in a Prius with pedal misapplication driver issues doesn't get behind me). ;)
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    The brake pads in new Honda's last ONLY about 30K miles (and I'm easy on the brakes as a driver). So they are guilty of using SHORT lifespan brake pads, and the 60-0 stopping distances don't justify the shorter life!

    I'm impressed at how well the brakes have held up in my buddy's 2006 Xterra. His previous vehicle was a 1998 Tracker convertible that I'd guess weighed 2500 lb at most, and was kind of a dog, with something like 98 hp. Needless to say, he got used to the extra power of the Xterra in no time flat, and tends to take off fast and brake quickly. So, I thought he'd go through the brakes pretty fast.

    Yet, the front brakes didn't need replacing until around 74,000 miles. And now, with around 80,000, the dealer says the rear brakes are soon going to be due. Considering the weight and power of that thing, plus the jackrabbit starts an stops, I'm impressed at how long they've lasted.

    The only Honda story I can think of was an old supervisor of mine who had a 1992 Civic with a manual transmission. I think he finally killed the car with around 175-180,000 miles. Front brakes were redone around 120K, and the rear were never done. I guess with a stick though, you just downshift and rely on engine braking more, so that saves on brakes.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I agree with isellhondas. Your friend's experience is was indeed unusual. He may have had a lemon, or maybe the car was driven very hard and/or not maintained properly. While BMWs and Saabs have attributes that endear them to their owners, on average their cost of ownership exceeds that of Accords by a significant margin. A sample of one isn't significant.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    edited September 2011
    I honestly don't expect that it would pay for itself, either. Especially considering that the powertrain is under warranty to 60,000 miles, so really I would just be buying a 40,000-mile warranty, and I doubt there will be any warranty-related issues that come up in that window. The reason I am considering it is that it would not cost me anything (out of pocket) to buy it due to having ample "Subaru Bucks" available for that purpose. That said, I could use those same "Bucks" for parts if a problem came up, assuming Subaru of America continues the program indefinitely.

    The last Subaru I had for any length of time, I purchased at 83,000 miles, and I took it to 220,000. While I did pour blood, sweat, and tears in to that car from time to time, it served me well and I had very few issues with it (in the grand scheme of things). In terms of repairs, I probably didn't have to spend more than $1,500 in the 6.5 years I owned it. Again, doing the work myself (including head gaskets, which was rather time-consuming). Of course, there was quite a bit of maintenance that went into it, including belts, hoses, tires (a couple times!), struts, etc., but that's not unique to a particular brand/model of car.

    I would say that I have probably spent nearly as much on repair/maintenance on my Escort as I did on my Subaru, and in half the time, but much of that, I think, is simply dealing with previous owners literally attempting to "drive it until the wheels fall off." The difference, overall, is the cost to purchase; factor that in, and the Escort is an inexpensive ride! So, I could have dumped $4,000 into a car in a year (or less) just to own it for that time, or spread the cost over a longer time.

    I am currently planning to replace the Escort with a new vehicle, or "slightly used," in about two years' time, with the hopes of having the replacement for a cradle-to-grave time.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • joeyrabjoeyrab Member Posts: 65
    Both my dodge and ford combined couldn't hit this number before they died. My toyota is on 347, 7- right now. This 2.2 is unbelieveable. I have never seen anything like this. I do like some other cars...but to consider anything outside toyota next time is going to be tough....and my wifes 2001 Corolla is on 168,000...good for another 100,000.
    Anyone else have experience with this 2.2?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hi Dwayne, I got the $2,000 number from your failed AC example -
    "A simple A/C compressor problem could cost $1,500.00 to $2,000.00 dollars. "

    That's a big number and not an unusual repair, but it's still just a few car payments and an expense that can easily be budgeted for.

    I understand that some people sleep better at night with insurance.

    I'm getting ready to change my van's oil. It has 166,000 miles as of today, and it's been about 8,000 miles or so since the last change. Maybe 9k, haven't kept close track (although I check the oil level most every time I fill up).

    If you really want to know how your oil is doing, you'd be better off getting an analysis done for $25 instead of changing all that oil.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    So, the weather turned just after I posted the above, so I unplugged the computer and went out to the garage and almost got struck by lightning struggling to get the man door open to the garage, while holding the umbrella and some tools.

    Fortunately the lights just flickered a couple of times, and I had plenty of light to change the oil and filter by. While it was draining, I checked my gas log. Oops - looks like it was 11,000 miles since my last oil change.

    Then, hanging out in the uninsulated garage, a big hail storm hit. Most were half inch but quite a few were over an inch in diameter. Lasted more than 5 minutes.

    Wonder if someone is trying to tell me something. :D
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited September 2011
    My wife had an 83 Celica with a 22RE engine. Not sure if it the same one.
    The car got killed after about 4 years. No fault of the car.
    I never liked that engine because it sounded terrible, flat would be a better description, and was not all that efficient.
    I had a 2007 Fusion with a 3.0 Duratec. Ran perfectly fine, but I was happy to trade it in because the engine just grated on me every time i started it up.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    Nah. Everything's fine, Steve. Go back outside.... :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2011
    Just wait and see - changed the oil and air and oil filters, and have a new cabin filter and blower resistor coming this week. The van will probably throw a rod next week. :shades:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited September 2011
    If you want that to happen, get it detailed.
    I don't think too many vehicles of that age had a cabin filter.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    lol, I did think of doing that before winter hit. Best not.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited September 2011
    If you are going through brake pads in a Honda at 30,000 miles, you are an abusive driver.

    Our 1998 Accord still had lots of pad left when we sold it with 75,000 miles. My 2003 CRV at 58,000 miles still has 6mm of pad left front and rear. They come with 10mm. Yes, we bought it new and it is mostly driven in heavy traffic and up and down the hills around here.

    For the most part, it's the DRIVER that determines brake life.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well also terrain. If he lived in San Francisco, brake pads don't last nearly as long. On SF taxicabs, sometimes every few months! :surprise:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's true but a lot of the hills around here rival some of the streets in San Francisco. Traffic too.

    A Montana commuter probably wouldn't ever need to replace brakes.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    A Montana commuter probably wouldn't ever need to replace brakes.

    I can see that being the case (in Eastern MT, anyway), especially if the driver kept the car for less than 150,000 miles. It takes me a LONG time to go through a set of brake pads, and I only commute 15 miles.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    If you are going through brake pads in a Honda at 30,000 miles, you are an abusive driver.

    Actually, the service manager at the Honda dealer said 30,000 miles was typical and normal for a 2003 Honda Accord. Maybe they just started using cheap pads in 2003 with the new model accords (and perhaps not with CRV).

    My Honda's brake pads were the shortest lifespan of any brakepad I've ever had. The Neon's lasted 60K, and I'm the same driver now as I was then. The A3's pads lasted 45K, and that was with far more "abusive" driving then the Honda ever saw.

    No, Honda hired at least ONE EX GM bean counter that decided to nickle and dime people with cheap OEM pads.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I do know that some of the later Accords would go through REAR pads faster than usual. Still, not that big of a problem.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    You also have to factor in how much you are carrying.
    A heavily loaded vehicle is going to wear out the brakes faster.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    I remember there was a guy at work who started weight lifting.
    He said his goal was to be the world champ in his weight class.
    After about 6 months, he was excited because he was halfway to the world record.
    Didn't have the heart to tell him the next half was going to be a bit harder to accomplish.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Dwayne,

    I guess if I had your bad luck with vehicles I'd do the same! Of course the majority of folks will have less repairs as compared to the cost of the warranty (otherwise the warranty companies would go out of business). Personally I've rarely had any major problems with cars before 100,000 miles, so if I would have bought extended warranties on all of my car purchases I'd have lost about $5000.

    With respect to service intervals, if you're doing twice as many oil changes as necessary, are you also replacing your transmission, brake and other fluids at half of their normal replacement interval? If not, why not? I'd think your philosophy would extend beyond oil change intervals. And what about replacing belts, hoses and air filters at 1/2 their normal life?

    Of course there's nothing wrong with your philosophy...you're spending more than necessary on your cars, but then people spend more than is necessary on lots of different things.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    My wife's 06 Pilot got 78K out of the front pads. The rears are going strong at 96K. And that is mostly stop and go driving in a really hilly area.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I can tell your wife is a gentle driver.

    I follow people sometimes who are constantly on their brakes.

    Of course, when they wear out after 30,000 miles it's the car's fault!
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    "I agree with isellhondas. Your friend's experience is was indeed unusual. He may have had a lemon, or maybe the car was driven very hard and/or not maintained properly. While BMWs and Saabs have attributes that endear them to their owners, on average their cost of ownership exceeds that of Accords by a significant margin. A sample of one isn't significant."

    So......anyone's long experience with owning bmw's that have been basically reliable (there are a lot of us), & haven't really cost any more to maintain than most cars, is irrelevant, according to you. And guess this forum isn't for bmw owners who have kept their cars for a long time with success, b/c......it doesn't fit the popular pre- (or mis-)-conceptions.

    I predicted this kind of response in my original post. All you have to do is say the word "BMW" to many non-bmw owners, & it engenders an almost Pavlovian response. People who have never owned bmw's, & really don't know anything about them, will immediately start spouting "the high cost of maintaining a bmw". Have you owned any bmw's? Know anything about possible costs of maintaining various models, or vintages?

    As far as my buddy's old honda, 1. certain Honda/Acura models & vintages have well documented auto trans. failures. You can read on various forums many people howling about it & very ticked off. 2. That accord was never "abused", or neglected. It only has 87K miles. I've read a lot of honda forums where people have spent probably the amount of $$ as my buddy on their 14 y.o. hondas. If people are claiming that hondas are so bulletproof that they may never need possibly a few $$thousand in repairs by the time they're 14 years old, I think that's silly. I think that's silly to say about any brand or model. It's just part of keeping most cars for a very long time.

    I have a lot more stories about owning all kinds of cars over 20-30 years: Dodge, Plymouth, Mercuries, Pontiac, Chevy, a VW, Toyotas, Hondas, a Land Rover, etc., but those might not be "significant", either......sheesh......
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    If it's any consolation, back in 1994 some friends of mine, a married couple, asked my opinion on small cars. At the time they had a 1978 Malibu Classic that had aorund 200,000 miles, a 1976 AMC Hornet wagon in a Robin's Egg blue with only ~90,000 miles, but it was showing its age, and a 1987 stripper of a Sentra coupe that had a stick shift, which the wife couldn't drive.

    Their plan was to get rid of the Malibu and Hornet, get a small-ish car for the wife, and the husband would keep driving the Sentra. Well, even though I've always had a bias towards domestics, first word out of my mouth was "Honda Civic". One of our mutual friends, a die-hard Mopar fanatic (worse than I ever was) was miffed at me. He wanted to steer them to something like a Dodge Shadow or Plymouth Sundance!

    Well, my friends bought a '94 Civic EX sedan, for something like $16,000. It was kind of a purple-ish color, as I recall. Nice little car. Until it blew a head gasket. Then it had some kind of a/c problems. Head gasket #2 blew around 80-90K, and by this time they got fed up, sold it, and bought a Saturn S-series, around August/Sept of 1998 (so I dunno if it was a '98 or '99).

    Needless to say, I don't heartily recommend cars anymore. I might say that I like or don't like a particular car, but I won't tell someone buy or don't buy this.

    Anyway, the last time I saw them, they went back to imports. Once they had kids, they bought a Ford Windstar, but the last time I saw them, they had a Toyota Corolla ('03-07 style) and a Kia Sorrento.

    So, I might have momentarily sent my friends running and screaming back to the domestics, but it didn't stick!

    As for BMW's, don't know much about them, but I've heard that the 3-Series is fairly reliable, as long as you don't spring for the M. It's when you get into the 5- and especially the 7-series, that you can run into problems.

    I have a buddy who has a 2003 or so BMW 5-something or other. He bought it about 4 years ago, as sort of a 40th birthday present to himself. I know he's had some issues with it, but I don't think it's been anything that would drive him to bankruptcy.

    I gotta confess, I like 7-Series that pre-dates the Bangled model. Looking at Wikipedia, I guess that would the the 1995-2001 E38? I think it's a good looking car, with its low beltline, generous use of glass area, and tidy proportions. I have a feeling that it's one of those "look but you better not touch" type of cars, though?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited September 2011
    "So......anyone's long experience with owning bmw's that have been basically reliable (there are a lot of us), & haven't really cost any more to maintain than most cars, is irrelevant, according to you."

    Did I say that?

    I owned a BMW E30 that I sold at 127,000 miles, and one of the cars in my family's fleet is a '99 Acura TL with 130,000 miles. Both are satisfying cars to own, but the TL has been more reliable by a wide margin. No transmission problems with the TL, to date. However, the '00-03s had a high incidence of transmission problems.

    I don't presume that an example of one BMW and one Acura is nearly sufficient to draw conclusions, even though they support my point that Hondas/Acuras tend to be more reliable and less expensive to own than BMWs.

    Would I buy another BMW? I'd consider a 3-Series, or a 5-door 1-Series, if they come to the U.S., but the run-flat tires are a major deterrent for me.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Depends on the year BMW and what you have to fix. BMW has developed this disturbing tendency over the years to throw out entire components rather than fix one sub-component. I thought their latest one---where to fix the fuel pump you must replace the entire gas tank, was a bit over the top. Let us pray this is not a trend that's going to get worse. They also tend to drag their feet on known problem areas---I'm thinking of the mid 90s cooling systems and those control arm bushings. I mean, c'mon, how many years before you fix these things?

    I remember even going back to my old 7-series BMW circa 1990, wherein you could not replace a u-joint, but had to buy an entire driveshaft.

    Well, I went to a machine shop and did it ANYWAY :P

    I think you're pretty safe with a nicely cared-for 3 or 5 series that isn't too miled up (after all, after 150,000 miles you can hardly blame ANY car for breaking down), but the more modern 7 series are dodgy, to say the least.

    I call cars like the 7 series "third rail cars". You really don't want to touch one.

    But I think their products over the last decade are pretty darn good, nonwithstanding run flat tires and non-dipsticks---nobody's perfect. :P
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited September 2011
    Having read many issues of Roundel (Mike Miller's technical section is super outstanding!), and based on other sources, in addition to my limited ownership experience, I agree with your comments, Shifty.

    I was going to mention the absence of a dipstick, but that doesn't bother me as much as the run-flats.

    By the way, I really like the MINI, but I just wish that run-flats were an option rather than standard equipment.

    True, nobody's perfect, but the two negatives we've mentioned would be so, so easy to fix.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    In CA I see old (10, 20, 30 year old) BMW's on the road all the time. It is not uncommon. They must be doing something right.

    A Neon that is moving on its own accord is a much rarer sight!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    if they come to the U.S., but the run-flat tires are a major deterrent for me.

    They are annoying and probably on par with the pet rock as far as inventions go. That being said, sell the tires on Craigslist or Ebay, and buy new tires you like. Not a huge deal breaker.

    Again, no good spot to secure a spare sucks though.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well you have to consider who ends up with used Neons vs. used BMWs. If you buy a used car for $600, chances are you won't be doing many repairs to it, but if you buy a clean old BMW for a couple thou, chances are you will invest a reasonable sum to keep it going.

    So if you see more old BMWs than Neons, it is as much a testament to "going to a good home" as it is to the car itself.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "... no good spot to secure a spare..."

    That's a design problem.

    I should have mentioned why I don't think the advantage of run-flats outweigh the disadvantages. They're considerably more expensive than regular tires, they make the car ride harsher, and you have fewer replacement choices. I've also read that they wear faster, although I don't know whether that's true.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,685
    they make the car ride harsher

    And, for those of us who keep cars longer than a few years, that can translate into more suspension repairs such as ball joints, bearings, struts, etc.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    If you buy a used car for $600, chances are you won't be doing many repairs to it

    that may be true, but if you want your $600 to get you from point a to point B you have to do the repair, no choice.

    From personal experience with the Neon, the kinds of problems it has are often catastrophic, and you either repair it, or send it to the junkyard. That's not to say it doesn't have other problems (rattles, melting glues, cracking glass), but every 3 or 4 months you will have a breakdown that requires a repair or face a big paper weight.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    I agree run flats seem to get horrible reviews when it comesw to tires.

    All that being said, how many times have you pulled out a spare tire in the last 10 years for use?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Last ten years? How about in the last month? Wish I had TPMS on my rides.

    image
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